UPDATED: 11/8/18, 1 PM CST
By David Futrelle
Yet another mass shooting, this one at the Borderline Bar and Grill in Thousand Oaks, California. The shooter killed 12 people, including a sheriff’s sergeant.
The shooter, who reportedly took his own life, has been identified as 28-year-old former marine Ian David Long, who used a pistol with an illegal extended magazine and smoke bomb in the attack. Though right-wingers last night glommed onto reports from a couple of eyewitnesses who said they thought the shooter looked Middle Eastern, he was white. We don’t know anything about his possible motive yet.
Please post any reliable information you run across in the thread below.
And here we go again. This is like a nightmare version of the movie “Groundhog Day.”
I found this too, have you heard about it, David?
https://abc7.com/7-shot-at-california-nightclub-during-halloween-event-dubbed-the-purge-/4577005/
De-flouncing to say “ah, fuck”. Unhelpful, but I needed to say it. I wish I could help the bereaved and frightened.
I will now re-flounce.
Well, it appears that the shooter is a white male. We don’t know if he’s a white nationalist, but I certainly wouldn’t be surprised if he were.
The Nazisphere is already trying to spin it as being MUSLIM TERRORISM!!! in response to some early reports that the shooter was “Either white, Hispanic or Middle Eastern” despite him turning out to be the first one. Sigh.
The spin should be incredible if a Christian Arab is ever responsible for a mass shooting in the US. We already saw a hint of that with Toronto van killer Alek Minassian, who some tried to claim was Muslim even after he was named, and it was obvious he was of Armenian descent.
An ex-New York cop has already appeared on Fox News, stating the club goers should have charged the shooter. Sure, they might have been shot anyways, but maybe they could have stopped him, like the Flight 93 passengers stopped the hijackers.
STOP RIOTING, WHITE PEOPLE.
Sorry, I got nothing else. Also, I am a white people.
Hugs to anyone in need of ’em.
@ SFHC
White male in America running amok with a gun ? Likely to be alt – Reich, Trumpanzee or incel, Maybe more than one of these categories or all three with the Venn diagram overlap between them being so great nowadays. It wouldn’t surprise me if the shooter belonged to at least one of the three groups.
It seems to be the Nazisphere will try to blame Muslim extremism for almost anything. I recall they even tried to ascribe the YouTube shooter’s actions to it, despite her being a Baha’i.
Anyone want to take a bet this guy had a history of domestic abuse? Anyone? I’ll give you 100:1 odds.
What’d’ya mean the US has a problem with domestic terrorism?/sarcasm
:sigh: So very, very, tired of this shit.
And the NRA has complained that doctors aren’t “staying in their lane” because apparently the people who see the victims of gun violence day after day, night after night, shouldn’t try to stop it.
Far as I’m concerned, NRA spokesdroids should have to spend at least 1 shift in a ER when the bullets have been flying. They won’t, because they’re scared of a little blood.
*sigh* Nope, can’t do this today.
tim gueguen@ oh, would this by chance be the same NYPD that hold doors shut to trap their civilian human shields with knife wielding maniacs and cower while they get stabbed because they feared for their life? That NYPD?
Every time I see the incels celebrating a mass shooting because people they didn’t like died, it shocks me anew. I should probably be inured to it, but, well, I’m not. Any host allowing these awful goddamn inciters to congregate on their online space is a degree of disgusting ranging from “negligent” to “complicit”.
Good fucking grief, not again. I don’t really know what else to say.
White dude, exmarine from recent news reports. Unsure of motivation probably a nazi, trump supporting shit head.
My thoughts go out to the victims and their families. Why does this keep happening? (Not a question, more a lament).
Long time lurker, I’m sorry if commenting first time on this thread seems intrusive.
Can we be better than the right here? They rush to ‘must be a Muslim/antifa’, but that doesn’t mean we should rush to ‘must be alt right / incel’ while it’s not yet known. There’s no need to race to add one more point to the mass killer scorecard – it’s already clear what the pattern is and waiting for hard facts isn’t going to change the trend.
Once his background and motivation are established, yes, let’s point out that this is one more Trumpist killer or one more killer with a domestic violence background or whatever he turns out to be. But for now can’t we focus on what’s certain – first the victims and secondly the gun culture that is at the core of this?
I’ve updated the post with information about the shooter.
I watched some of the initial coverage last night, including a number of eyewitness interviews on the scene, and it was immediately clear that information about the shooter was unreliable. It’s hard to get a good look at a shooter in a crowded bar when you’re trying to flee, and most of the eyewitnesses said they didn’t get a good enough look to identify him, and among those who did describe him the only thing they all agreed on was that the shooter was a man wearing black. The most clear-headed witness, a young woman with a military dad who she said had prepared her for this sort of thing, reported that he was a white guy who clearly knew what he was doing with the gun. I’m not surprised she turned out to be right but last night there was no way to be sure. We should probably refrain from speculation until we know a little more about the shooter.
Would it be possible to convince alien anthropologists that American gun culture isn’t an outright religion–one whose body count is implicit human sacrifice, and whose right to exist–indeed, to proliferate–can even exact the occasional sacrificial ruler (we’re talking four white male sitting presidents, not counting failed attempts)?
(Given that incels are already folk-sanctifying mass shooters, it would dismay but not surprise me if an express Gun Church has already arisen.)
TBH, I have to agree with Jo here. It’s a little weird to see people denouncing right-wingers rushing to characterize the shooter as a Muslim terrorist… while in the exact same post making completely unsupported assumptions or “predictions” about the shooter’s right-wing/alt-right/incel background.
As highlighted by Digby: http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2018/11/once-america-decided-killing-children.html
Honestly when I heard about this shooting my first thought was,”it must be a day ending in why.” I’m really tired of seeing these mass shootings in the States. The only way it would change is if conservative white males started getting killed in droves by mass shooters.
Unfortunately that demographic is on the perpetrator side of this crime than the victim.
I think you’re naive if you believe even that would stop it. As much as this is about the fear white men have of literally everything, it is much more about money.
The Las Vegas mass shooting was very close to the heart of the NRA supporter demographic, and they just explained it away like all the others. They’ll call it “mental illness” if it’s only one mass shooting, if it’s more than one, they’ll find a “pattern” and call it “deep state terrorism.”
NRA supporters, and conservative whites in general have shown incredible versatility in creating fantastic explanations for events when they don’t want to hear the truth. As long as the base keeps payin’ them dues (and more importantly, as long as the gun manufacturers keep greasin’ them skids), the NRA will keep payin’ them congressMEN (yeah, and a few women.) And they’ll keep buffaloing the base with bullshit.
@ Marcelinethevampyqueen:
… conclusion not supported by facts in evidence…. Ex-marine, white dude, Afghanistan vet as I understand, and PTSD is really a thing.
If I’m wrong or out of line, I apologize.
@Weird Eddie:
In the Las Vegas shooting, my recollection is that some of the band members up on stage when that started were NRA supporters… and that incident changed their mind, as they realized in the thick of the situation that there was nothing they could do that wouldn’t be most likely to make the situation worse.
But they were actually in the middle of it, and as you say, anybody who wasn’t there had all sorts of self-image reasons to ignore that potential epiphany.
In before the NRA tries to spin this away like they do with every shooting. And even worse is that he might actually have ptsd which is just going to muddy the fuck on the mainstream discussion with “mentally ill lone wolf” crap.