By David Futrelle
Sometimes it’s hard to tell if the incel obsession with “Jailbait” stems from their pedophile — sorry, I mean ephebophile — fantasies, or if they’re just looking for an excuse to suggest that all the adult men out there having sex with adult women are secretly as sad and pathetic as incels are.
Take, for example, this post today on Incels.is — a backup site for Incels.me, which has apparently been booted from the internet by its domain provider — setting forth the proposition that “if you miss out on teenage love, you are an incel for life tbh.”
Here’s the full text, if you want to avoid eyestrain:
OverBeforeItBegan
Highest inhib BDDcel
–
Joined
Jul 26, 2018
Messages
827
Today at 5:32 PM#1Getting some ancient 25 year old (at best) used up slut that is looking for a “safe man” after highschool/ college Chads and Tyrones are done using her holes is the equivalent of escortcelling. You might still get the occasional sex but it will be nowhere near the same as to what superior men got while you get the degraded version of your girlfriend/wife. She’ll just be reminiscing about her youth and the countless Chad cocks she got plowed by.
No love is as pure as Teenage Stacy worshiping your dick. You cannot make up lost time.
The one good thing about this is watching cucktears copers [i.e. commenters on the IncelTears subreddit] saying things like “i’m happy I met my wife when she was 30 years old because she’s more mature now and gives me better handjobs because of her experience “
You can feel their pain from their posts.
I suppose there’s a a third possible explanation here: that OverBeforeItBegan is trying to convince himself that his Incels.me handle is an accurate one by “proving” that there’s nothing he can do to make his life better so he might as well just wallow in misery forever.
Of course, it’s also possible that the correct answer is “all of the above” — that OverBeforeItBegan is a pedophile-sorry-ephebophile who wants to think most men are secretly as miserable as he is and that nothing will ever make anything better for any of them.
I’m not sure I’ve ever encountered a social movement quite so devoted to making (and keeping) everyone involved in it feeling miserable, bitter, and hopeless.
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@Cat Mara: funnily enough my partner is from Singapore so the Singlish use of “uncle” is never far from my mind! It’s just a generic term for an older man though, as I understand it.
Jone,
Yeah, when I was 15 or 16 I’d already learned to be wary of creepy adult men. I was hardly a “Stacy.” I was an awkward kid who was not only still a virgin, I’d never even made out with anyone. But I’d already experienced a legion of creepers and had no interest in them.
I think they know that not all teen girls will fall for their bullshit though. I fear they just target the ones too lost and vulnerable to know better.
@jone, re:
“Hey, if children 15 and under started coming out in droves, holding up signs saying “WE WANT TO HAVE SEX WITH CREEPY WHITE MEN!,” I would reexamine my opinions on pedophilia.”
I would assume a cult or such put them up to it. Coercively. Like I know you’re talking in pure hypotheticals, but this shit is touchy, especially for survivors.
@WWTH
Your second paragraph is IMO one reason why queer kids of all sorts tend to be magnets for predators. Growing up queer in a normatively cis/hetero culture will make anyone feel like a complete outsider, and creeps take advantage of that heavily in my experience.
@weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
Of course hypothetical, and sarcastic to boot. It’s not a thing and I know for certain it would never actually be a thing. Just making a point. The voices of the potential victims are missing from the conversation entirely. It’s all about what they, the self-appointed-kings-of-the-world-not to-mention-the-internet want for themselves.
@Cyborgette
That’s true and people who are vulnerable get drawn into horrible situations by people who should know better. But the predatory types lack empathy and the desire to see outside of their own point of view… which dictates that “others” are pawns to be used and discarded. Sometimes quite literally.
Part of the issue with one race/gender/sexuality/religious type being placed in positions of authority more than others means some of them will take advantage of the automatic trust that’s placed in them and use it to the detriment of the well being of both individuals and society.
They think white men are demonized in this culture.
I say, not nearly enough.
@ Sillabub:
Oh thank goodness. I was wondering what the “uncle community” was, and dreaded finding out.
@Sillabub
I was quite intrigued by the “uncle community”
Re – older people having more successful/pleasurable/fun sexual experiences-
I think a real key point here that hasn’t been mentioned is that as people age, they learn about their own likes, interests, and kinks.
Then they communicate these to their partners.
Many not-cis men are not raised to confidently state their needs AND expect them to be considered/actually taken seriously. This takes time and experience to know how to do.
Also, hopefully the older cis-men have been in the world enough to have learned that not everything revolves around them and their particular wants, and that they should listen to their partner.
There is only one surefire ‘move’ that will most likely please everyone. It’s communication.
The Finnish equivalent of “uncle” can also mean generally older man, and in Finnish feminist slang the kind of garden variety sexist man who’s stereotypically middle age or older.
Inasmuch as there’s an uncle community, it’s a mutually supportive old boys’ network (Finnish “good brothers”) rather than a crab bucket.
@Bakunin
Yep. That’s why the best advice I can give to anyone desperate to be in a relationship is, stop trying! Live your life, be yourself, learn to enjoy your own company and it’s fairly likely that it’ll ‘just happen’. That’s my own personal experience anyway.
Interestingly, in Elizabethan English, ‘aunt’ was slang for a mistress or prostitute.
Sign me up in the “Dicks are awesome and lovely” camp.
To be fair, I’m not an ordinary girl, in that I have one of my own, but still, if I’m dtf a guy, I’m all about that dick.
@Jesalin:
It didn’t in my case …
am I understanding this correctly? are they shifting the definition of “incel”? is it now, instead of literally meaning dudes who “can’t” get any, now just any dude who makes himself miserable obsessing over all the amazing theoretical sex he didn’t have as a teenager, regardless of how much actual sex he goes on to have in real life?
@Surplus
Give it time <3
Personal stuff:
I didn't have any sexual partners until I was 26, or serious relationships until I was 28. And in retrospect I'm really glad of that. From early on I'd internalized a lot of normative crap about how this was bad and True Love would fix me, if only I could find a partner who would control me and tell me what to do, and… yeah, if I'd kept going that way I would have landed with an abuser, and/or become one myself. As it was I got damaged a bunch by controlling people anyway.
(On which note, fuck female submissiveness indoctrination *so much*. It is pure evil.)
It took giving up on dating, and focusing on developing a few really good, really close platonic friends. Eventually I reached out platonically to someone I'd tried dating, and failed at… And we wound up dating again, and pacing each other in our transitions. Two years later we're still in love and still keeping an open relationship.
@Cyborgette:
How much? Because I’ve been doing as Jesalin suggested for at least the past 20 years and counting … or does it only work if you have enough discretionary income to socialize elsewhere than just on the internet and at family gatherings where someone else is paying the expenses?
Nobody is better at keeping incels down than incels themselves.
@Surplus to Requirements – Fair enough; it’s not a situation of “do X thing, get results,” because it also depends on other people. And yes, sometimes having enough money to go places. My advice would be not to expect a relationship. Also, not to expect not having a relationship. Generally, not to expect anything.
Mind you, I don’t think anybody can completely do that. 😛
Not to anyone in particular, but since people are talking about their experiences… well, I could say that I’m a 30-year-old virgin and I don’t mind? But that’s not quite true. From time to time I get upset about not having romantic love and/or sex, but I’m easily distracted. An hour later, I’ll probably be worrying about something more else, if I’m in a worrying mood.
Now, the incels would probably find me funny/pathetic – if they ever acknowledged that women have their own personhood – is that I’m also bisexual (re the stereotype that we’re supposed to be getting all the sex). From that perspective, I’m a total loser! Do I feel that way? Hell, no! Not for those reasons, anyway. 🙂
Last half-asleep thought: it’s true that I don’t really understand what it’s like to be desperate for a relationship (or even horny for long stretches at a time)! But I do understand what it’s like to have an obsessive worry – for me, at the moment, it’s “not being organized.” Juuuust (O incels) I’m not going to start an internet community bashing and dehumanizing everyone whom I feel is organized.
@Mish, Alexis Filth
Hmm, I guess it’s more complicated than I thought… Thanks for answering!
Oh! Addendum. I did date someone for a few weeks (three months?) in 2015. We didn’t really understand each other. It was confusing.
The last time we ever spoke, he visibly recoiled when I said I handed in the majority of my university projects in late. The look said, “What? What kind of monster ARE you?”
I’d already admitted to hitting someone in the face with a wine glass. That he minimized, even though it could have caused serious injuries, it was the worst single thing I’d ever done, I (at the time) still had panic attacks about it… But no, he was going to be shocked at the fact that I didn’t finish papers on time.
I guess everyone has their standards? People are weird.
In my case I didn’t go out to socialise. I hated going out to disco or bars when I was younger. I met my girlfriend in college.?
Apparently there’s now communities for incel women now too (gee, weren’t they supposed to be nonexistent according to incels?) Below is one of their subreddits that I found linked on Fundies Say the Darndest Things, because of course incel communities of all types would be found there.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Trufemcels/
I don’t know how to put this-I honestly, truly didn’t think that something like this could even be possible. It does make me wonder one thing, though: if both incels and “femcels” want to get laid so badly, why don’t they just have sex with each other and be done with it?
Re: crab buckets… do crabs actually display this behaviour? And if they do, surely it isn’t out of spite – they’re just climbing over each other, trying to save themselves.
Also, regarding the metaphorical crab bucket… it’s such an individualistic view of poverty and oppression, isnt it? It presupposes that there are only two outcomes – that all the crabs stay in the bucket and die, ir that a small handful of crabs escape. No possibility that, say, they team up and burst the bucket.
Jeesh, if I was a “used-up slut” at 25, what the hell am I at 53?
Hopefully, invisible to these jackwagons.
Much as I joke about jumping on the cock carousel every weekend and stopping after every third delivery I make to bang a Chad, the truth is, I have never been with a guy who would qualify as a “Chad” and I don’t give a fuck. In my experience, a lot of “hot” people are way too full of themselves for me to find them at all interesting.
Which means that these guys are even more pathetic than I already thought. What they’re saying is that any guy who didn’t bang a “Stacey” during his school days will spend his life filled with bitter, misogynist regret for not having achieved that goal. If I were a man, I’d be insulted by that assertion.
I’m a man, and I’m more amused than insulted by it because it’s such obvious bullshit that doesn’t remotely describe how my own life panned out – or, I suspect, that of just about any other male person that I know.
@Diptych
Yes, crabs do really do that.
They’re not a whole lot smarter than people.