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Angry incel: “I finally told my mom that it’s her fault that I’m ugly”

It’s all your fault, MOM!

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By David Futrelle

Sullen teenagers have been yelling “I didn’t ask to be born” at their parents for, well, probably for millennia now. But leave it to the “involuntary celibates” of Incels.me to come up with a new twist on this ancient theme. In a recent post on the Incel,me forums — highlighted by the excellent Just Incel Things Twitter account — one bitter young man made this dramatic announcement:

I finally told my mom that it is her fault that I am ugly and that I have paid for her mistake my whole life. My dad just stood there and said nothing, I suspect he knows how I feel. My mom, just like every single woman on the planet, tried to lie to me. She said there's nothing wrong with the way I look. I just wanted an apology from them. They should at least recognize that my life is fucked because of them, I'm their creation. Once I asked my mom why the fuck she had me and she just said that she's always wanted to have a baby. That's it. I exist because of a foid's selfishness, that's the meaning of my existence.

Setting aside the fact that genetics is a complicated thing — conventionally attractive parents can have ugly kids and vice versa — one has to wonder how exactly Mr. Wizardcel managed to apportion the blame for his alleged bad looks between his parents — each of whom contributed equally to his genetic makeup.

Is his mother notably uglier than his dad, or does he just think she’s somehow more responsible for his looks because he lived in her womb? Or maybe his father is the ugly one — and Mr. Wizardcel blames her for marrying him? (Men’s Rights Activists and other reactionaries have made similar arguments blaming the mothers of violent men for existence of male violence in the world.) These guys are ingenious at figuring out ways to blame women for things over which they have no control.

So how did other incels react to Wizardcel’s announcement? Several called him out for taking out his frustrations with life on his mother and her genes. But others agreed with him wholeheartedly — and some went on to suggest that his existence was even more meaningless than he already assumed.

“There is no meaning of an incels existence,” wrote someone called Justshavebruh, because life is defined by “the ability to procreate and we’re not able to. We are not even alive per definition.”

Someone called Platypus took this weird evo-psych “argument” and ran with it, arguing that

for a biological being to fully express its life, it must make full use of its entire array of biological features. The less features you use, the closer to death you are. It’s self-evident looking at how old people become less and less physically able, until they die. 

Not being able to procreate, is a deathlike existence.

Justshavebruh responded by declaring that

A virus is more alive than an incel. We also need an host to procreate. But we simply are not able to. Which means:

omae wa mou shindeiru

NANI?!

Just a word of advice, fellas: If you think of yourself as a virus (or something worse) and women as “hosts,” well, you aren’t going to get a lot of dates. And you shouldn’t get a lot of dates. Or any.

(That last little bit in the quote is a reference to an anime; according to Urban Dictionary the phrase “omae wa mou shindeiru” roughly translates to “you are already dead.”)

I don’t know what more to say to this line of argument than this:

I’ve heard people argue, in all seriousness, that we should be willing to overlook the violent misogyny that permeates incel culture because, well, that’s just a form of male bonding, and these communities provide support for depressed young men.

But that’s wrong, in every respect. We can’t dismiss the violent misogyny; not only is it awful and dangerous in itself, but, as the discussion above about viruses and hosts makes pretty clear, it’s also inextricably linked to the incels’ particular brand of self-hatred.

Incel communities like Incels.me aren’t “support groups.” They’re “kick-out-the-supports” groups. They lead already angry and depressed men to hate their lives even more — and to blame women for everything they think is wrong with them. This isn’t just a bunch of angry young men venting on the internet. Because nothing gets vented; the pressure just builds and builds. These communities are incubating future Elliot Rodgers and Alec Minassians.

As absurd as incel discussions often look — with their cracked anti-logic, their memes and jokes and anime references — this is what radicalization looks like, and it’s happening every hour of every day on the online venues where incels congregate.

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Cindy
Cindy
1 year ago

On a macro level, I believe the best way to combat incels is to fight against toxic masculinity and against kyriarchy. It might not be possible to change a dyed-in-the-wool incel, but we can stop new ones from being made.

Robert
Robert
1 year ago

As I’ve mentioned before, I occasionally drop by the Peterson subReddit to see what they’re up (or down) to. There’s a definite theme of ‘to be a man you *must* reproduce’, often mingled with a sick terror at the fate of raising another man’s offspring.

I know for a fact that my mother smoked and drank through all seven pregnancies. I might have been a little taller and healthier had she not, but resenting her because of it never occurred to me. I worked on my personality to compensate, and it turned out acceptably.

And referring to your own mother as a ‘foid’ is some poop’t up squak, as Jhonen Vasquez would put it.

Hexum7
Hexum7
1 year ago

Vakyrie and Meercat- keep in mind that incel reasoning is rather twisty-

Having an eating disorder wouldn’t repulse most people.

But in a perpetual incel’s mind, being severely underweight or overweight are things that would make them hidious- Remember how obsessed we are with every feature that puts them in the unfuckable zone, and how disgusted they react to fe azone ( or whatever the days term is) who do not conform to social,y accepted standards of beauty- that’s how they think of themselves- and therefore give them, as I saud, something other than their personality to blame their social failures on.

Andy yes, I realize that one can have an eating disorder without being particularly big or, conversely fatless- I was being a bit flippant about that in order to try to come up with an (apparently lame) quip.

On the other hand, there is no shortage of blogs and YouTube channels that encourage young men to extremely unhealthy first to lose mire dat than can sustain a human body. The precept is that if a guy not look like an anatomy chart- has too much body fat.

I have more thoughts But right now, I’m mesmerized listening g to a sociopath speak about charges of sexual abuse as if he were a politician making a speech about taxes. His daughter says he should pray “for the woman” wrong, she should pray for herself- “the woman” knows better than to be around creeps now.

Is he going to describe how much he harrangued Monica lewinsky to get her to tell him how many times a man, charged only if lying under oath, had cum in her mouth?

Will he describe his thinking when he wrote down that he was part of a club who had sex with a teenaged girl in his class and write it down in a yearbook- a document people tend to keep for life?

Yeah, I went to a Jesuit prep school. Predatory jocks were everywhere. Now he’s trying to make it sound like he went to semenary school.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
1 year ago

@Hexum
A simple ‘my b’ woulda sufficed

kupo
kupo
1 year ago

Andy yes, I realize that one can have an eating disorder without being particularly big or, conversely fatless- I was being a bit flippant about that in order to try to come up with an (apparently lame) quip.

So you intentionally said something harmful about people with eating disorders in an attempt to be witty. Wit doesn’t excuse you from microaggressions. It’s the primary form of them.

Also, comments policy, please.

Cat Mara
Cat Mara
1 year ago

This reminds me of an extreme philosophical position called antinatalism that holds that the evolution of consciousness was a net evil because it means that humans are uniquely aware of their own mortality compared to other animals; and that the only moral response to this condition is the voluntary extinction of the species rather than propagate the suffering into future generations. The leading proponent of the antnatalist position was the Norwegian philosopher Peter Wessel Zappfe who, contrary to what you might expect apparently, was quite a pleasant man who lived to a ripe old age. Even he didn’t believe in immediately precipitating oneself off the nearest tall building, after all, just (!) that the human race should allow itself to die out through natural attrition. He believed in taking what joy one could get from one’s life & choose not to have children in accordance with his philosophical position.

Now, when your (i.e., incels’) outlook is actually more bleak than those who believe that the extinction of the entire human race is a good thing, that should be a red flag right there…

hexum7
hexum7
1 year ago

Kiupo i did not say anything “bad” about people with eating disorders. please reread what i wrote- that it is the incels themselves who would think it bad to be underweight or overweight .

this is just a fact. that is what and how they think

ps my bad that it came off the way you read it

Ignore Sandra
Ignore Sandra
1 year ago

ps my bad that it came off the way you read it

Not an apology, but super condescending. Negative points.

Skylalalalalalala
Skylalalalalalala
1 year ago

Please don’t advocate for violence. One, it’s against the comments policy. And two, physically assaulting one’s children has been shown to provide overwhelmingly negative impacts when used as a disciplinary tool despite how normalized it is in our culture.

I wasn’t advocating literal violence, mostly. And he isn’t a child, he’s an adult who was verbally and emotionally abusing his mother because he has an extremely fucked up belief system.

I’m well aware of the negative impacts of physical “discipline” on children & have been for decades. I’ve been a member of a gentle discipline forum since my eldest was a baby.

kupo
kupo
1 year ago

@Skylalalalalalala

Please read the comments policy section titled, “No threats or violent comments”

nonukar
nonukar
1 year ago

I call bullshit on the Incel’s obsession with “reproduction”. They just want to get laid and know that sounds sad and creepy so they have to dress it up with an emphasis on procreation. If any of these idiots actually got laid and got a woman pregnant they’d run away – they’re not REALLY interested in the long hard work of raising children they just want the fun sex part.

And this applies to the rest of the manosphere too.

Catalpa
Catalpa
1 year ago

This reminds me of an extreme philosophical position called antinatalism

I dunno that antinatalism would be considered extreme. Radical, definitely. But most proponents of it are measured individuals who just seek to minimize harm.

I personally consider myself to be a part of VHEMT- the Voluntary Human Extinction Movement, because I think that bringing additional human beings onto this planet will only result in considerable suffering both on the part of the new individual as well on the planet as a whole. The perpetuation of the human race is causing enormous ecological damage, as well as huge swathes of humanity being subjected to poverty, victimization, and struggle. Judging by the way that climate change is going, extinction is almost certainly going to be inevitable anyway. It’s better for humanity to eventually bow out of existence by voluntarily choosing not to give birth to future generations, than it is for billions of people to suffer and die in ever-worsening natural disasters and wars (not to mention dragging thousands of other species into extinction as well). At least, that’s my philosophy on it.

The key term of the movement is ‘voluntary’. The goal of the philosophy is a humanitarian one, even if most people disagree with it. It’s not a movement of hatred and entitlement like the incel one.

Robert
Robert
1 year ago

My parents had seven children. Of those, four went to college, three did not. Of the four, none have procreated*; the latter three have five children between them.

Apparently, higher education is an effective contraceptive method.

*Two of us became parents anyway.

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
1 year ago

@nonukar

I’m pretty sure their definition of “reproducing” is The God-Given Right Not To Wear a Condom Whatever That Damned Uppity Woman Thinks.

Shadowplay
1 year ago

@Bmacs

I don’t say this lightly, but the military was made for these guys.

How about no. We’re not the dumping ground for failures. Misfits, maybe, but these lot – no bloody way.

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
1 year ago

hexum7

You can’t know if someone has a eating disorder just by looking at them.

it’s rediculous to suggest that it is possible and also not fair at all.

lots of fat people are healthy – if someone is fat it doesn’t mean they have a eating disorder. if someone is “underweight” (like me for most of my childhood and teenage life) it doesn’t mean they are have a eating disorder.

and “overweight” and “underweight” are just nonsense anyway! BMI is nonsense. and it is nothing about attractiveness.

I don’t really care if what you said it to be in the mind of the incel – because it is hurtful to lots of people here; including me. intent is not important. your words still hurt.

M K
M K
1 year ago

I’m not trying to armchair-diagnose, but to me, incel forums seem to be the “men with clinical depression” equivalent to those “pro ana” or “pro mia” spaces you see for eating disorders like anorexia (ana) and bulimia (mia) sometimes on some corners of the internet.

Not that men don’t also get those disorders, but as far as I know, those online spaces are pretty girl/woman-dominated, teen girls and young women in particular.

And they are not “support groups.” They don’t encourage people to get treatment, or even try to provide healthier/short term coping techniques or self-talk for people who can’t access therapy. They just encourage people to go deeper into the disorder and self-harm/self-destruct further.

So encouraging incel identity and incel spaces, imho, is like promoting pro-ana/pro-mia spaces, and it has about the same effect on mental health/mental illness management.

M K
M K
1 year ago

Also yes, you cannot tell someone’s physical/mental health from looking at them.

Kiwiwriter
Kiwiwriter
1 year ago

I agree heartily with that statement. Even men who are not “incels” walk away — or run as fast as they can — when presented with unintended parental duties.

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
1 year ago

Also yes, you cannot tell someone’s physical/mental health from looking at them.

it is quite ironic acually, I had a very good relationship with food when I was “too skinny”, but now I am more “healthy” weight my relationship with food is much worse and i’m unwell quite often, or at least anxiety and stress means that I starve myself, which is something I never thought I will do.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

The comparison has never felt right to me. Mainly because pro ana/mia site users harm only themselves. Incel sites pose a real threat to others.

Also, pro ana sites don’t try to recruit. Or at least they didn’t when I frequented them an admittedly long time ago. Girls seeking tips on how to acquire an ED were shooed away. Part of it was cliquishness and competitiveness. Part of it was genuine concern for the well being of those not yet stuck in a disorder. There were also always links for those wanting recovery. Nobody got angry at members who decided to recover.

Incel sites on the other hand, are full of fantasies about the beta uprising. They want frustrated and angry men to come join them.

I get why people make the comparison, but really, there’s no female equivalent to incel. Because incel, like every other branch of the manosphere, is at its core about preserving privilege. They aren’t angry because they’re lonely. They are angry because they can’t control women. This is why incels are always straight, even though it’s going to be harder for young socially awkward queer men to find romance and sex than it is for young socially awkward straight men.

Kiwiwriter
Kiwiwriter
1 year ago

That’s about it. And being allowed to walk away from all responsibility in actually raising the kid.

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
1 year ago

incel, like every other branch of the manosphere, is at its core about preserving privilege. They aren’t angry because they’re lonely. They are angry because they can’t control women.

Nail. Head. Hit.

Hexum7
Hexum7
1 year ago

Vakyrie and Meercat- keep in mind that incel reasoning is rather twisty-

Having an eating disorder wouldn’t repulse most people.

But in a perpetual incel’s mind, being severely underweight or overweight are things that would make them hidious- Remember how obsessed we are with every feature that puts them in the unfuckable zone, and how disgusted they react to fe azone ( or whatever the days term is) who do not conform to social,y accepted standards of beauty- that’s how they think of themselves- and therefore give them, as I saud, something other than their personality to blame their social failures on.

Andy yes, I realize that one can have an eating disorder without being particularly big or, conversely fatless- I was being a bit flippant about that in order to try to come up with an (apparently lame) quip.

On the other hand, there is no shortage of blogs and YouTube channels that encourage young men to extremely unhealthy first to lose more fat than can sustain a human body. The precept is that if a guy not look like an anatomy chart- has too much body fat.

I have more thoughts But right now, I’m mesmerized listening g to a sociopath speak about charges of sexual abuse as if he were a politician making a speech about taxes. His daughter says he should pray “for the woman” wrong, she should pray for herself- “the woman” knows better than to be around creeps now.

Is he going to describe how much he harrangued Monica lewinsky to get her to tell him how many times a man, charged only if lying under oath, had cum in her mouth?

Will he describe his thinking when he wrote down that he was part of a club who had sex with a teenaged girl in his class and write it down in a yearbook- a document people tend to keep for life?

Yeah, I went to a Jesuit prep school. Predatory jocks were everywhere. Now he’s trying to make it sound like he went to s menare school

Hexum7
Hexum7
1 year ago

Valentin. I’m sorry that my words hurt you. I should have worded my post better

But you should always consider intent .

That’s all I’m going to say about it.

Those of you further who want to further criticize me for a single badly worded sentence should really read the comments policy concerning piling up on people

Hexum7
Hexum7
1 year ago

PS sorry for the double post. Don’t know why it happened just now

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
1 year ago

@Hexum, my duck, I say this out of kindness and in the spirit of conciliation;

I believe your intentions were good, but you unintentionally hurt people in turning those intentions into words. This happens, and every time it does happen, it’s an opportunity to learn about the world. Please take it.

No apology should be qualified with a but or a please reread.

stop pointing to your intent after the fact,

start thinking of consequence before it.

Hexum7
Hexum7
1 year ago

Scilfreja

Yes, yes, yes. Absolutely.

I tried to clarify what i wrote in the hopes that sime who were hurt would not feel attacked. I know it came off as overly defensive, and furtherly insensitive and I apologize to all for that

I certainly will be more attentive to how I say things in the future. And I thank you for critiquing in a way that was understanding and kind.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
1 year ago

Any time, my duck. Please forgive me as I dig into your reply a bit – I think it could be enlightening for people reading. It’s not an attack on you, just sort of self-reflection on my own reply to you.

My first reply was a lot more sharp-toothed. I don’t want an argument, and my first reaction would have more likely made one – it was more curt and abrupt. It was just the two lines at the end, a bit of a verbal slap. I added the top bit to give you an opportunity to brace for it and see it coming.

This sort of self-moderation is very typical of – well, I won’t say women, but it’s more typical of the feminine role. Community caretaking, self-moderation for the sake of reducing conflict, consideration of the viewpoint and feelings that others might have. I could just use the term emotional labour, but sometimes you gotta gut the fish.

I do this sort of thing instinctively, so don’t feel like I was giving you special consideration or that I think you’re especially fragile or sensitive – it’s just what I do. Even this reply has undergone three revisions by the time I’ve made it to the sentence I’m typing right now. Little modifications to sharpen the edge, to make sure that my words have the effect I intend. If you look back you can probably even see where I’ve changed my writing, and could possibly even glean what I’ve removed or added.

I think this habit, and the fact that our society codes it as being feminine, is what’s needed to actually reduce sexism, racism, etc. Empathy as a positive instinct and not a denigrated, enforced rule.

Anyways, that’s my ramble. I’m sorry if that felt like it was directed at you, Hexum – it wasn’t! I’ve been thinking a lot of things about the way empathy and sympathy work over the past months, and it’s good to write it out sometimes.

Hexum7
Hexum7
1 year ago

You laid it out very well, and it did not feel like an attack on me in any way. You certainly gave me an insight that eluded me in my intitial reactions-

And speaking of water fowl , I know I need to practice letting such feelings slide off my back as water to a duck- while still enjoying the lake.

It’s been a rough past few days- criticisms of my words certainly was just an easier thing to vent about.

I think there is a conversation that needs to be had- about when benign intent and poor word choice become toxic and hurtful, more so at times than outright hostility. Abd also about how men and women react to things differently, , but now is not that time, I realize. And I don’t want to make this the hexum7 show, so……

Jesalin: Clit-o-centric Lesbian Goddess
Jesalin: Clit-o-centric Lesbian Goddess
1 year ago

And I thank you for critiquing in a way that was understanding and kind.

Translation: ‘Thank you for doing that emotional labour for me.’

Dude, the last time someone critisized you, you had a meltdown, she wasn’t being “understanding and kind”, she was walking on eggshells so you wouldn’t explode.

Kiwiwriter
Kiwiwriter
1 year ago

We’re all having a difficult time right now…the news from Washington, the nation, and the world is so horrible, so depressing, and so hopeless, I despair of our survival as a nation, society, of democracy, and even a species.

That’s why I try to avoid news on weekends. I just watch baseball.

kupo
kupo
1 year ago

It’s been a rough past few days- criticisms of my words certainly was just an easier thing to vent about.

Imagine how rough it’s been for the women you’re lashing out against.

Hexum7
Hexum7
1 year ago

kupo

Point taken

Hexum7
Hexum7
1 year ago

kupo

Point taken.

I actually had an experience almost exactly parallel to Doctir Fird’s in high school- a Catholic prep all-boys school, so kavanough’s being supported, even his disgusting facial expressions and obvious lies have taken a toll on me.

The one time I told anyone about it, years later, they made a joke about his I wanted it. Needless to say, I never told another soul except my therapist

I can’t fully emphasize with how women are treated like garbage everyday, but I know how I feel listening to this shitstorm and it’s sick and rotten in my stomach.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
1 year ago

<3 Hex. I understand; far too many of us understand. Let's hope we've got traction on it this time and can see some positive change.

Positive change as in tearing down the whole rotten edifice with a bulldozer, of course. I think that’s pretty positive.

Thanks, @kupo, @Jes.

Hexum7
Hexum7
1 year ago

scildfrja
<3

Emmytiel
Emmytiel
1 year ago

I don’t often find myself wondering “how does this happen” because it’s usually pretty clear, but when I see something like this that forces me to see it from the mother’s point of view I can’t help but wonder that.

It’s so easy to think that I am teaching my son respect for himself and others and these parents didn’t do that, but it’s too easy. It’s probably not even correct. It’s an easy way to make myself think my son won’t end up like that by putting the blame where it doesn’t belong.

Which leads me right back to thinking “how does this happen.” It’s hard, especially as a woman who didn’t have sex until her late twenties but never thought once it was anyone’s fault, to imagine the turns someone would have to take in their life to end up quite that twisted.

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
1 year ago

Those of you further who want to further criticize me for a single badly worded sentence should really read the comments policy concerning piling up on people

okay this is not fair. no one is piling you – because we are all saying different things. you are using the comments policy to make sure you can have the final word. that’s not what it is for. if you apologise properly and behave humbly then it is different, but your apology always comes with “but” so it is only fair that people continue to reply to you, because it’s not a proper apology and you continue to try to be the “winner”.

hexum7
hexum7
1 year ago

i never thought this was about winning or losing. i

am. not gracious or a humble person. i was raised badly. i take responsibility for my words though

you can have the last word

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
1 year ago

No, I think you should have the last word.

I insist.

kupo
kupo
1 year ago

Stares at the last word just sitting there on the plate and wonders if it’s socially acceptable to take it.

hexum7
hexum7
1 year ago

Oy

Valkyrine
Valkyrine
1 year ago

never thought this was about winning or losing. i

am. not gracious or a humble person. i was raised badly. i take responsibility for my words though

you can have the last word

Wow, passive-aggressive much?

Sly Fawkes
1 year ago

If this douche is going to refer to his mother as a “foid,” his mother has every right to kick his douche ass to the curb. I’m the sort of person who tends to be very forgiving of foibles in my child, but being an incel is not a foible, it is a flaw. I think I would give him the choice to go to counseling for his hateful ideals, or GTFO.

Citerior Motive
Citerior Motive
1 year ago

@Kupo: The traditional solution is to cut the last word in half, take half of it, and then carry on staring passive-aggressively at the other party.

Aleph
Aleph
1 year ago

Considering how much they hate women I was already wondering what the incels thought about their immediate family members, especially their mothers, and I unpleasantly got the answer.

Maybe I should stop wondering about the details of an incel’s life, nothing good seems to ever come out of this community.

@Cat Mara their so-called Black Pill could be considered to be more nihilistic than most misanthropist ideologies, and even more nihilistic than Nietzsche, all because of obsession with looks and uncontrolled mysogyny. Some incels, I’ve found, turn out to be misanthropes and may share similar ideas to that ideology you mentioned.

Hexum7
Hexum7
1 year ago

“wow passive-aggressive much.”

Sorry.

Paradoxical Intention - Resident Cheeseburger Slut

You know what gets me about this whole rant? That not only does this dude blame his mom for “being ugly” (and he accuses her of lying to him when she tells him flat-out there’s nothing wrong with his looks because he is so fucking convinced that he’s ugly and that’s the cause of all his problems), he assumes his dad’s silence is somehow complicit agreement and understanding of his self-inflicted woes.

He solely blames his mother for his issues, and assumes his dad is 100 percent on his side because he said nothing (likely because he was fucking dumbfounded by this and had no idea how to respond).

And this is the reason that men need to speak up when they see this kind of shit. Because the men who do this garbage take silence as agreement and support.

Once again, I stand by my statement that inceldom is a destructive cult and needs to be dealt with as such. Anyone can be sucked into a cult. Anyone can fall victim to hearing what they want to hear when they are at a low point in life. It’s not solely a “mental health” issue (though that can contribute to it), so much as it’s cult programming.

Lizard
Lizard
1 year ago

Twenty bucks says this dude is perfectly normal in the looks department and his parents are stricken at what their son thinks of himself: his father standing dumbfounded and his mother trying to reassure him. He’s just convinced himself so thoroughly that he’s ugly that he can’t see it.