By David Futrelle
Some excellent dating tips for incels from comedian Rachel Parris. I’m sure the incels are mad about it already.
Listen up, Incels! Here’s @RachelParris with a brief guide on how to actually treat women… pic.twitter.com/z4JfNDIwD1
— BBC Two (@BBCTwo) September 17, 2018
To be fair, though, many of these guys are so far gone in their hatred that they should not be dating actual human beings at all and probably can’t be trusted to own pets or even plants.
But there are bitter young dudes just flirting with incel and who are, I suspect, redeemable. If that’s you, LISTEN UP because Parris is dispensing some ACTUAL GOOD ADVICE HERE.
After the news this week I felt moved to watch Teeth again. I can’t imagine why.
That’s a good movie.
Well, there’s your problem.
@Rabid Rabbit
Indeed.
In porn made by women for women (which admittedly is a fraction of the amount made by/for men) there is a hell of a lot less focus on dicks and their size. That, it turns out, is a peculiarly male preoccupation.
I almost forgot, Robert Glover wrote _No More Mr. Nice Guy_ for people who are too accommodating and unselfish. These people build up unhealthy frustration and resentment at work, in relationships, etc. The book teaches authentic communication, even when that requires being selfish. Dr. Glover’s website now helps men with relationships.
Telling sociopathic incels to be nice is futile. Telling “redeemable” incels to be nice changes them from genuinely nice socially anxious guys to facetiously nice embittered incels.
http://okcupidsniceguys.tumblr.com/
This blog performs a valuable service by highlighting the most vitriolic misogyny online. But that reflects trolling and venting. The movie “Shy Boys” gives a more representative perspective on a sad spectrum of social disability.
One more short video about incels:
Did Parris’ video even instruct incels to be nice? She just pointed out that raging about women on the internet is a less effective strategy for finding a date than talking to women without freaking them out would be. This is literally the most basic dating advice imaginable and I’m baffled that anyone would find it controversial.
Because I’d actually agree that would be futile. I don’t want them to perform niceness. I want them to stop being entitled and misogynistic. Or at least not to act on it.
In any case, advising them to start treating women like shit is most certainly not going to do anyone any good. Often times these guys find incel because they’ve been promised that these tactics would work and they didn’t. Those the name of former incel hub PUA Hate.
I get the impression that often times incels, MGTOW etc. are yearning for a social or political excuse that would, with a little creative misinterpretation, validate the kind of shitty treatment of women that goes way beyond “don’t be a doormat”.
@Moon_custafer
Thanks for linking that article. In addition to the useful context, it was quite interesting.
Lumipuna,
Yep. That’s why they respond with either rage or gaslighting and mansplaining whenever women give sensible dating advice to men who have trouble finding dates. If they actually wanted romance and/or sex, they would listen to the advice and take it on board. Help from actual women should be something they want to hear. But they don’t. They only listen to men who tell them what they want to hear. Which is of course that women want to and/or deserve to be treated poorly.
This is why I generally don’t give men dating advice unless I know they’re asking in good faith. Of course, refusal to give free advice and therapy pisses them off just as much. Luckily I don’t really care if sad boner trolls are mad at me.
*Warning for suicide mention*
@KL
I found that video interesting, but for a conclusion it didn’t draw.
Here’s what I took from it:
But then later
I’m sure I don’t have to labour the point to anyone here.
@Alan Robertshaw: For every incel suicide, hundreds are merely miserable. It is tempting to suspect their forums intensify their celibate misery. But forums might also provide camaraderie and relief. Women are repulsed and have no empathy for incels.
@WWTH: “Help from actual women should be something they want to hear.” Almost universally, women give terrible advice. There are various explanations. Basically, heterosexual women have no experience in seducing women. Norah Vincent, a lesbian, wrote _Self-Made Man_ based on going undercover as a man. She provided good insights and became quite sympathetic to the plight of men.
Women are largely ignorant of what it takes to succeed as a man. Without empathy for the social bullying of incels, you shouldn’t have much opinion about what incels need to hear.
*Suicide talk*
@KL
Well my point was more that incels claim their suicide talk is a joke, yet some of them apparently commit suicide; so why should people take their talk of murdering women any less seriously?
Well yeah; see above.
Yes. How could women possibly know what women are attracted to? That’s ridiculous!
@KL
Well, since men are apparently the ones who know what women like best (despite what women themselves say), I can only assume that women know what men like best (despite what the men themselves say).
And I’m a woman. Therefore whatever random bullshit I make up about what men’s preferences are should be taken as gospel truth. So listen up, men. I’m going to drop some truth bombs on you.
You might think that you like women, hot women. No, that’s not the case. You know what will really fulfill you? Cats. It’s obvious. You have sublimated your desire to own dozens and dozens of cats by pursuing women instead. That’s why you call it pussy. Women who want to REALLY attract men get cats of their own to lure them in. They’ve cracked the secret of what all men want, subconsciously. True fax.
What are the others of these various explanations?
Surely a cis het man already has plenty of experience being a cis het man and advice from people on the opposite end of male-female “seduction” techniques would provide him with a useful insight on how such techniques are likely to be received?
If multiple women are telling you that they wouldn’t be seduced by being belittled with “backhanded compliments” isn’t that something to bear in mind in future?
KL apparently thinks that women aren’t human beings who can make decisions and know our own tastes. That’s the implication behind this
statement. That we’re mindless and simple creatures and men know best how to seduce if they can only find the cheat code to unlock sex from the womanthing.
The reality is, no. Women don’t give terrible advice. We give advice that misogynists don’t want to hear because it contradicts their worldview. There’s a big difference.
I mean, there’s a reason that PUAs either change their ways and disavow their previous advice (Neil Strauss) or become increasingly bitter, angry and lonely (Roosh) as they start to age and grow disenchanted by that worldview.
@KL – you are conflating ‘celibate man’ with ‘incel’.
Women don’t have time for incels, because the contemporary idea of ‘incel’ is toxic af.
Would you want to be with someone who is furious with you? Why would anyone?
Basically, an incel is preeeeeetty likely to set off some red flags for people they are interested in. Hopefully the women listen to their gut, and are able protect themselves.
‘Celibate men’ or men who haven’t had sex at all are not all incels, one has to subscribe to that ideology.
Celibate men could benefit from listening to women (and nb and trans and the whole spectum aside from cis dudes) because women can say “hey, when you approach me like this, doing that, i am going to use the prearranged signal i have with my friends to get me the fuck out of this situation.”
And then people take that on-board, adjust their behaviour, and now are setting off at least one less alarm bell.
Incels could benefit from both owning their own shit, and from placing the blame of what is going wrong in their lives (stagnating wages, unfulfilling jobs, a world they were promised but that has yet to appear) in the right spot, which is weirdly not women as a whole???????
“Yeah, people from Japan might have grown up and spent their entire lives speaking Japanese, but I, a person who has been teaching myself Japanese from anime and manga since I was 13, definitely know WAY more about communicating in Japanese than those native Japanese-speakers. I mean, I’ve been studying Japanese for YEARS now, and those Japanese people don’t even have to think about how to speak Japanese. Obviously I know more than them.”
Women in this comment thread, repeatedly:
KL:
Why this word specifically? Why not meet women, date women, have relationships with women, connect with women?
Seeeeeeeeduuuuuuuuuuce
Ew. I want to take a shower now.
Like, I would take ten steps back from any man seriously using the word serrrrrrrrdurrrrrrrrce. It’s gross and affected and ridiculous and rapey all at the same time. It’s like Pepe Le Pew sexually assaulting an innocent cat. I have no experience in seducing men or women or anyone because I’m not interested in pressing people I barely know into touching my junk.
And for the record, PUA schmeduction techniques may end up working for some, but it’s a numbers thing. If you approach enough women, you’ll eventually find one that will respond. PUA techniques are probably good for finding you someone vulnerable or with low self-esteem. So you find this woman, someone who is probably at a low point in her life, and you shpledouche her. Go, you! What an accomplishment! Be proud of yourself, Pepe!
I do also like how he assumes that nobody here who’s commented about PUA “seduction” techniques could possibly be a lesbian, bi or pan woman who has in fact been in relationships with women and might know a few things about attracting them.
@KL
How’s the view from inside your ass?
Trolls are so tedious these days.
Wait, hold on,
Northern Exposure? Who on Earth thinks the central comedy of Northern Exposure is “schlub gets hottie”… and which of the cast do they think is a schlub?
@Rabid Rabbit:
I loved that raccoon article. I eventually had to close my cat door for good, due to the raccoons invading my house. Raccoons weren’t the sole reason I shut the cat door- I decided to have solely indoor cats, having had two cats run over and killed by cars, and another one simply disappearing on the first day of hunting season.
I think it’s great Alan likes raccoons, but I wonder how he would feel about them if he found one of them on his kitchen table at 2 o’clock in the morning. Which has happened to me.