By David Futrelle
Some excellent dating tips for incels from comedian Rachel Parris. I’m sure the incels are mad about it already.
Listen up, Incels! Here’s @RachelParris with a brief guide on how to actually treat women… pic.twitter.com/z4JfNDIwD1
— BBC Two (@BBCTwo) September 17, 2018
To be fair, though, many of these guys are so far gone in their hatred that they should not be dating actual human beings at all and probably can’t be trusted to own pets or even plants.
But there are bitter young dudes just flirting with incel and who are, I suspect, redeemable. If that’s you, LISTEN UP because Parris is dispensing some ACTUAL GOOD ADVICE HERE.
“I saw nothing in there about men needing to act as conquerors.”
” It just pointed out that interacting respectfully with women is likely to lead to more romantic and sexual success”
“Success” at what exactly, then, if not sexual conquest…? And what would ‘failure’ look like in this context…?
Virgin Mary, it all ties in together… the entitlement to male provisionment , and the codependent helplessness… the lady in the video talks about a dry spell where she was involuntarily celibate… do you think she was actively asking men out during that time ..? I doubt it… she probably just waited around thinking some guy is ‘supposed to ‘ come along and take responsibility for her situation of loneliness… as if it’s men’s job to sexually conquer her… but to do it the ‘right’ way she feels so entitled to…
Katamount skrev:
See also the Ayn Rand fandom.
You. A person nobody will ever want to be with, or around, or near.
Any cult? Nah, I think most if not all of us have the potential to fall into a cult if the right conditions were present. The human drive for community is strong, and it can be perverted. (Perverted here being a verb and not an adjective. The human drive for community may also be kinky, but that is not the point of discussion at this point in time.) Being taken in by manipulative scumbags who make a living out of hoodwinking others is not an indicator of being a bad and/or weak person.
That said, a cult based around viciously hating an incredibly common subset of humanity to the point of feeling immense glee when learning that children of the hated demographic were murdered? Yeah, if that’s the particular brand of community that a person feels drawn to, then I’d say that those people demonstrate a mindset that is very harmful or at least very hazardous.
Are they automatically Bad Forever? Not in my opinion, no. I’m a great believer in people being able to grow and change and improve. But will I be inclined to ever trust anyone who admits to having incel tendencies/sympathies? Very much no.
Though my primary contention with the might-have-been-incels isn’t that they might have been incels. That aspect is troubling, sure, but whatever, they’re apparently super feminist now, good for them, backpats all around. No, the part that bothers me is that they come onto this site, which clearly catalogues all of the horrific things that the incels have done and support, and they choose to say “eh, yeah, I could have been an incel. I mean, I wasn’t getting any dates and blinding rage and hate is totally an understandable reaction to that. Most dudes probably would do the same!” Like it’s some foregone conclusion that men will be hateful and resentful if women don’t provide them their desires, and only through blind luck do men not become like that permanently. Like this is some kind of normal, innate trait that men possess and not instead a horrific consequence of the way that society teaches men to behave towards women. That is the problem that I have.
Sex need not be a conquest, you creepy little weirdo.
Where did you get this information from?
Wait, I know! Straight from your ass.
By the way, chap. You can’t complain about women having standards for a partner, calling it entitled, and then complain about how “females” these days are not up to your standards.
@Slick Mick
Clarify yourself, sir. What exactly do you mean by “sexual conqueror” and “sexual conquest”, and why do you automatically assume “sexual conquest” to be the sole success state?
Seems our little Slicky Micky is trolling the wrong site. You want the PUAssholes, dude.
@Hippodameia
Oooo, dang that was good. Not even a Burn Heal’s gonna cure that one.
So it’s true that “conquest” is/was used (weirdly) to refer to sex or one’s sex partner, but using the word “conquer” just points out how icky of a metaphor it is. And it’s telling how @Slick Mick over there says it’s the man who does the “conquering,” even when saying women are so entitled.
@ Diptych –
As Catalpa has said, the point isn’t that they nearly fell into a group that gleefully cheers on rapes, beatings, and murders.
The point is how often commenters on this site breezily admit how close they were to seeing half of humanity as not human at all.
It isn’t a joke, and this isn’t a light story to share. This is a ‘holy fuck, how did I ever get so twisted up in my own head that it would have made sense for me to dehumanise half the population on earth?’ story.
The lack of that sheer horror is what always gets me. It always reads more as a “Sure am glad I didn’t have the internet, I’d be such a different person today if I had fallen into the incel/MRA/PUA rabbit hole!”
Western society is swimming in misogyny, and it is frighteningly easy for people to fall into this trap, without even realising it. But once they have pulled themselves out… Don’t come here and give me an “Aw, shucks!” about it.
Because it is terrifying how the allies that we now rely on could have, but for a few years, be the next person screaming at feminists on the internet. The next person sending harassing DMs to a vocal trans person on twitter.
The next Toronto Van Attacker.
But it’s okay, because they just managed to miss the internet communities. *finger guns and a wink*
Also, if someone has grown out of these ideas and now realises how awful they are, great. If someone is still calling themselves an incel as well as an ally or feminist, then I would side eye the heck out of them. I just want some more self examination from feminists or allies before sharing exactly the same story in exactly the same ‘w/e’ tone AGAIN.
QFT – @ Catalpa said –
Fuck off, Mick. People have the right to choose and dismiss someone as a potential romantic/sexual partner based on as arbitary reasons as they want. If that means you need to “woo” them the exact way they deem correct, then that’s their right and no amount of screaming “ENTITLEMENT” is gonna change that.
“People have the right to choose and dismiss someone as a potential romantic/sexual partner based on as arbitary reasons as they want. ”
Say me again how incels are wrong to passively reject by turning blind eye to women who are not 10/10 virgins…
@yzek
They are not right nor wrong for doing so, it’s their choice. What is wrong of them is to rage at women for not meeting their criteria when they themselves set the bar so impossibly high, and maybe understand the inherent hypocrisy of then complaining about women only wanting to date Chads (which isn’t true, but whatevs…)
Why would a 10/10 virgin woman want an incel?
I’m not saying “why would she want an awkward virgin guy”, i’m saying why would she want someone who identifies as an incel, with all the toxic beliefs that go into “wimmens are gatekeeping me from the sex i both deserve and am owed for being a man who is breathing! Bitches!!!!!!!!!”
Words mean things, and someone who subscribes to the idea that they are owed sex is something that a lot of people can tell. And people are right to be very cautious around this person, because how do you trust that if you were in a sexual situation, the incel would listen for their partners wants, needs, and consent before taking what they believe the woman has selfishly denied them? What they think of as already theirs by right of being a man in this, the year 2018?
This isn’t preference. This is basic self protection.
If an incel starts treating the people they are romantically interested in as people, they are going to see that the tenets of inceldom just aren’t true, and they will hopefully commit to some self reflection, and dig out those toxic beliefs that have warped how they view people.
Then the creepy vibes will hopefully go away, and they might be able to actually find a romantic partner.
I don’t know. I know she didn’t use it as an argument for literally enslaving all men. So, there’s that.
Maybe it’s not obvious to you, but I think everyone else here can see the huge, industrial-size projector you’ve got turned on.
Seriously, you’re not talking about her anymore. You’re talking about yourself; about what you think and feel. Not her. You.
There are lots of people of all genders and orientations who are picky about dating and sex. No one has an issue with that and they don’t get written about here because they aren’t violently raging against the world, trolling the internet to complain about feeeemales, or writing very creepy op-eds about how women should date violent men in order to appease them.
We object to the misogyny, not the preferences.
Anyone can have whatever preference as long as they understand that the pickier they are, the harder it will be to find a partner. You can’t expect the entire world to anticipate and conform to your own desires and expectations. That’s what’s entitled, not having preferences.
I do have one caveat though. That’s the virgin preference. This one is so tied up with misogyny, it’s hard to dismiss as just a preference. There’s a reason men fetishize virgins and women usually don’t. I do think it’s legit for a young guy with little or no experience to want a similarly inexperienced young woman. But if you’re forty and only interested in teenage virgins, that’s no perfectly innocent and normal preference.
But anyway, it is always funny in a revolting kind of way that incels and MGTOW can absolutely not tell the difference between having preferences and having a sense of entitlement. It’s not just confusion either. They blatantly refuse to even learn the difference.
It’s also funny in a revolting kind of way that as much as incels complain about being lonely, there is nothing that makes them angrier than someone giving them advice on how they might be able to find a partner. It’s almost like it’s not a partner they want, but a justification for their hatred.
Oh, and I forgot to add one thing.
It’s especially ironic for the trolls to call the OP entitlement when the standards for decency differ so much between a large swath of men and women.
Decent man = Don’t be a misogynist, racist, rape apologist. Don’t ignore boundaries and creep on minors.
Decent woman = Be hot, but not in a slutty way. Have perfect clothes, makeup and hair at all times but don’t be vain and take a long time getting ready. Be intelligent and educated but don’t overshadow your man and don’t ever correct him. Be thin but still have curves. Be naturally thin because girls who only salad and worry constantly about looking fat are a total drag. Be a virgin, but when you meet the right man be willing to perform any sexual act he wants. Be bubbly and friendly but don’t ever be seen as flirting with another man and be happy to drop all your friends for your man. But don’t expect your man to drop his friends for you, you stage 5 clinger. Anticipate and take care of all his needs and always soothe his ego when it’s bruised, but don’t ever expect this in return because men aren’t good at remembering birthdays or being nurturing. Have as many babies as he wants but don’t let it change your appearance or your willingness to please him sexually. This list is not comprehensive and can change at any time. Be aware that if you break an unwritten rule, you are a bitch who is destroying western civilization.
Note that I’m not even getting into personal preferences here. Just the baseline standard men and women are expected to meet to be considered a good catch in our culture. This is an important distinction because that does not mean individuals only date those who meet these standards. This is purely cultural messaging I’m talking about.
WWTH:
Certainly not, if “teenage” is an explicit or implicit part of your virgin requirement.
I’d say seeking teenagers (incl. non-virgins) as an adult is predatory and a red flag for general misogyny, while generally seeking virgins (incl. adult ones) is “just” a red flag for general misogyny. So these preferences are illegitimate in somewhat different ways.
Men need to refuse the rigid gynocentric gender roles feminists insist in trying to box them into , such as the ‘sexual conqueror’ gender role that tells men ‘success’ is having sex with women…
Men need to just say no…
Feminists promote the idea that ‘success’ for men equates to ‘getting laid’… it’s a toxic masculine script men should just refuse…
‘Sex need not be a conquest’
Well, that’s the idea that I think this video SHOULD be promoting but instead feminists promote the idea of pressuring men into trying to conquer women and that ‘success’ equates to getting laid
Also, feminists should quit sexually harassing men online…
@Slicky Micky
Just because you say something is so, doesn’t make the reality warp itself in pretzels to conform to it. No feminists are saying that men should be “sexual conquerors” or that success for men is being measured by getting to have sex with women.
Feminists say that men need to woo women with ‘respectful interactions’ in order to ‘succeed’ at sexually conquering the women and that if no one wants to be with them then they are a ‘failure’…thats a bad message…it puts a lot of pressure on men to be sexually aggressive… men need to reject this message… and treat women as equals … and the women need to stop sexually harassing men too… men don’t owe you any wooing…
If anything, feminism has taught me to aspire being a sexual diplomat.
Mick,
You are adding the part about sexual conquest all by yourself. Saying that you’ll have an easier time finding success with pursuing relationships if you can interact with women without seething misogynistic rage means just that. Having a mutually fulfilling romantic and/or sexual relationship involves no conquest. Having consensual sex with a woman does not mean you conquered her. It means you and the woman engaged in sexual activity together.
Just because you are a misogynist and believe that sex with a woman is a conquest, doesn’t make it so. It certainly doesn’t mean that women are saying we want to be conquered when we discuss our preferences.
This isn’t that hard to figure out. It’s very disturbing that you believe sex is a conquest, so I do support your quest to go your own way. Best to keep away from women.
@Slick Mick
While it’s true that strawmen are a lot easier to debate than real people, the discussions don’t tend to be all that productive. Maybe you should try interacting with the people who are actually here.
Or you can flap around for a bit until you get banned. Either way.