By David Futrelle
In the Braincels subreddit, the main hangout on Reddit for so-called “involuntary celibates,” the regulars are once again bemoaning that “life is over” for guys who are a few inches shorter than the national average.
Naturally, most of those Braincellers who have responded to 86160’s thoughtful analysis of height discrimination not only agree with him; they also think that he is probably understating just how dire it is for short men, suggesting that he could probably raise his estimate of the Height Below Which All Male Life is Basically Impossible to 5’8″ (just one inch shorter than the average height of American men) or even 6′ (3 inches taller than the average).
Ah yes, because no man less than 5’5″ 5’8″ 6′ has ever succeeded at anything, or been respected by anyone, or gotten a kiss from a lady. You may recall how the musical career of the wee fellow who called himself “Prince” was derailed forever because he was only 5’2″ — and good luck finding anyone who thought he was cute, much less sexy.
And you’ve probably never heard of Peter Dinklage (4’5″) or Martin Scorsese (5’3″) or Paul Simon (also 5’3″) or Seth Green (5’4″) or Micheal J. Fox (also 5’4″) or Mel Brooks (also also 5’4″) or Truman Capote (also also also 5’4″). And there couldn’t possibly have been an actual professional basketball player (“Muggsy” Bogues) who was 5’3″, must have hallucinated that.
Looking over the course of history, there have clearly never been any short men with power or prestige or HAWT girlfriends or anything, I mean, obviously you’ve never heard of Henri Toulouse-Lautrec (4’11”), Andrew Carnegie (5’2″), Beethoven (5’3″), Voltaire (5’3″), Gandhi (5’4″), Picasso (5’4″). It’s not like Genghis Khan — whose genes live on today in literally millions of men, making him the most genetically successful man in history — was a 5’1′ shorty. OH WAIT.
If I were to raise this arbitrary cutoff to 5’8″ I would have to include such notable male unsucccesses as Martin Luther King, Jr., Bruce Lee, Winston Churchill, Napoleon Boneparte, Rivers Cuomo, Robin Williams, Bono, Tom Cruise,
Thom Yorke, Al Pacino, Roger Daltrey, Daniel Radcliffe, Dustin Hoffman, Bruno Mars, Jack Black, Aziz Ansari, Jason Schwartzman, Jon Stewart, Elton John, Mario Andretti, Henry Winkler, Beck, Manny Pacquiao, Bob Dylan, Alfred Hitchcock, Spike Lee, Mike Myers, Steven Spielberg, F. Scott Fitzgerald,
J. R. R. Tolkien, Ralph Lauren, Alexander the Great, David Sedaris, Jesse Eisenberg, Gael Garcia Bernal, George Lucas, Isaac Newton, Sylvester Stallone, Elijah Wood, Billy Joel (to shamelessly steal names from a couple of lists I found here and here, as I did for the previous paragraphs as well).
I would include some examples of famous men less than 6′ as well except then I would have to list MOST OF THE FAMOUS MEN WHO’VE EVER LIVED.
Yes, dudes, it’s true that short men do face discrimination of various kinds. And yes, there are women who, all else being equal, prefer taller men to shorter men, just as there are some men who prefer women with bit tits to women with small tits. Because some people have preferences about such things.
But all you have to do to rebut the incel folk belief that “short people got no reason to live” (to quote a song intended to point out the absurd nature of all prejudice and not actually to rag on short people at all) is to get off the Braincels subreddit for five minutes and observe the world around you, in which you cal literally see with your own eyes countless short men living happy lives, some of them even with HAWT girlfriends and wives in tow.
I mean, I’ve literally seen HAWT women out there walking hand in hand with short men down the street within feet of my apartment, and I don’t even get out that much. I’VE KNOWN SHORT DUDES WHO ENDED UP DATING WOMEN I WANTED TO DATE GODDAMMIT, WHY AM I EVEN DEFENDING THESE LADY STEALING DUDES IN THE FIRST PLACE, DAMN YOU SHORT DUDES DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL WHY ARE YOU SO GOOD WITH THE LADIES
What was I talking about again?
I guess the moral here is that you can make yourself miserable about anything and maybe, just maybe, this is not a good way to live your life? Maybe a whole movement designed to convince dudes that they should be miserable all the time because of things that they don’t control and that … aren’t actually going to condemn them to lives of misery if they don’t let them … is a really bad idea?
Just a thought, fellas. I mean, seriously. What the hell are you even doing?
@priscilla poopalot – me too! My current partner is the tallest guy I’ve ever been in a LTR with and he’s not particularly tall – maybe 5’9″ something like that? Maybe less? I’m not a great judge.
I have dated guys taller than that – but just haven’t been in an extended relationship with one. I simply don’t find them as attractive. When I went of first date with him I literally thought “Well, he’s a bit taller than I like, but not toooo much.”
My man also has thinner wrists than mine (mine are exceptionally thick!) – but damn he has some killer canthal tilt.
Yeah honestly I have a preference for short, skinny guys, in part because big guys with serious muscles are hecking dangerous. I’ve gotten strangled by guys with strength and reach before and it isn’t fun. Insofar as I’m actually interested in dating men, I’d prefer the ones who would have a slightly harder time injuring or killing me if they decided to become physically abusive. Also big guys are just more likely to be douchebags in my experience, and tend to be less empathic even when they’re decent people.
Not that small, cute men aren’t dangerous. All men are dangerous. But IME the ones with less immediate physical power are a lot less likely to be awful.
My husband & I saw it. Elementary is one of his favourite shows, so we keep fairly up to date with it, so it was awhile ago. We both appreciated the way Sherlock treated the incel guy.
I was very in love with a guy who was 5’4″. I’m still not completely over him over a decade later. His personality was what made me fall for him. His height didn’t matter at all, nor did the fact he had some features that I normally wouldn’t consider attractive. None of it mattered because he was so awesome. Sadly he dumped me after a few months since we lived so far apart.
But if you bring all those guys up to incels, they’ll just claim that they were only attractive to women because they were rich and famous. They never consider two things, though:
1. How did these “manlets” get that wealth and fame if being a “manlet” prevents you from getting wealth and fame?
2. If you incels claim to be smarter than everyone else, being blackpilled and all, why aren’t you putting those mighty incel intellects to work finding a way to get rich and famous so you can attract women?
I’m 5’2, almost 5’3 as a guy and the only people that have mocked me for my height have been other men, even way after high school. Women have been okay with my height since high school and I get compliments and other things because I try my best to be a decent human being.
The main thing these guys need to do is look after their own health and do something that actually makes them happy, but of course personal health and wellbeing is also toxified online thanks to these so called MRAs.
Men get reeeeeeeeeally mad whenever us ladies dare to have a height preference, don’t they?
As a tall woman, I have stopped dating two men because they were short. Not because it bothered me, but because it bothered them. One tried to tell me to change my shoes from heels, because he didn’t like being shorter than his date. The other one told me approximately seven times in half an hour that’s it’s a good thing he’s not bothered by tall women. For some reason I didn’t believe him…
Some women have a preference for height, and that’s fine. Some women don’t. I would go as far as to say most women don’t consider height a deal-breaker. If a woman has decided to go on a date with you, then your height is obviously not a deal-breaker to her.
Priscilla Poopalot:
Ermm. Does he have any particular cheese in mind?
Seriously, RDJ is considered one of the sexiest dudes alive and people LOVE joking about how short he is compared to his costars and how he wears lifts in tons of scenes because Tony Stark is taller than RDJ is.
Ha, I wish more men were shorter.
I’m of exact average height of my age cohort.
Which, apparently, brings my nose to exactly armpit height of too many men.
I commute by public transport most of the time.
I assume you see my problem…
I wonder if any incels blame their problems on being “too tall, actually”. They seem very adept at finding physical flaws in themselves, but there’s also this common social perception that you can’t complain about having too much of the good thing, which you see especially manifesting with penis size discussions.
It is true that people who are attracted to men generally are more attracted to tall men. Height is part of the conventional attractiveness package for men. However. Not everyone is only into what’s conventionally attractive. More importantly, most people do not have a checklist of must have physical traits that they refuse to deviate from in any circumstances. Chemistry, personality and compatibility frequently overrides type for people. Especially women, who are socialized to put more value on non looks based qualities than men are.
I think the second part is what the manuresphere struggles with most. They are extremely shallow and only value women’s appearance, so they project these attitudes onto women and then resent us for our imagined lack of willingness to date men who don’t meet the same impossible standards they have for women.
@ Johanna,
I’m a cishet woman who’s 5’9″ (the same height as the average man of my age) and I concur. It’s not the height of short men that’s the problem…it’s their attitude to their height.
It always amuses me when I stand next to a man, and he gives me a sideways look…then surreptitiously stand as straight as he can. Just desperately trying to be juuuuuuuuust a little bit taller than me. I don’t wear heels much because they hurt my feet. But when I do, any man who doesn’t like it can bugger off.
Height discrimination among men is real and I have no doubt that many men feel self-conscious about their height and that many (but clearly not all given the comments above) prefer taller men. And yet, despite being a common preference, I don’t think many women view height as a dealbreaker. Then again, these guys think dating is like ordering off a menu so the idea that most of us are more interested in the whole person isn’t one they can fathom.
What really grinds my gears, though, is that height discrimination (like many of the manosphere’s less delusional complaints) is a product of patriarchy. I mean the term “manlet” screams toxic masculinity.
Married couple in the middle: the late Argentinian comedian/journalist Jorge Guinzburg and TV producer Andrea Stivel (she is 5′ 9”). Incels, what gives?
I know someone who’s 6’8″ who I suspect would gladly swap bodies with a 5’6″-er if the opportunity ever arose. If incels think that society discriminates against short people, they should try existing in an environment where having your knees forced up against your chest in a theatre or banging your head on the top of a doorframe are regular things.
Hell, I’m 6’3″, and that’s not exactly a picnic either. Especially if you hit that height early enough to be painfully self-conscious about it throughout most of your teens.
I propose a new moniker for these creeps: Shut-incels.
It’s a bit of a myth that Napoleon was particularly short.
He was five two in French feet; but that’s equivalent to five seven in English feet; which actually made him above average height for the time period.
my girlfriend is actually taller than me. quite a lot! I am 167cm and she is 180. but I don’t mind. I don’t think about it at all unless someone talks about this topic. if it is about men should protect “their” woman that is nothing about height. I’m a much better boxer than my girlfriend, but she also knows how to box. if we get into trouble we look eachother because we are a team. no one ever made fun of me because I am shorter than her. Other men made fun of me because I am very skinny but that is all.
I’m 6″ tall woman of amazonian proportions. Fortunately where I live most constructions were during the vaulted ceiling vogue, so I can enjoy plenty of head room. I wear the dreaded yoga pants because shopping for jeans is the bane of my existence, especially with the low-waist trend that translates to lots of plumber’s crack. If I limited myself to dating men taller than myself, there wouldn’t be much opportunity. Besides, having a partner who is face level with your breasts has its own perks. Tall men get the benefit of a good viewing angle, but there are ergonomic challenges.
I agree with Johanna and Tosca, “little man syndrome” is a thing. Some short men react to my height by getting adorably twitterpated, but others are so insecure that they try to assert their masculinity by trying to dominate me with rudeness or outright abuse. I don’t even let them have that by reminding them it would not be a remotely fair fight.
I abstain from watching GOT because I sort of have a policy about not watching dramatizations of books I enjoy. Tyrion was my favorite character, and I had a crush on him when I pictured him as the books describe him. Still I couldn’t avoid seeing all the hype. I agree, Peter Dinklage is certainly one smolderingly handsome man, but sadly he shares in incel’s cynicism about his sex appeal. I quote from his Playboy interview on his sex symbol status, “They’ll say, ‘Oh, he’s sexy,’ but women still go for guys who are 6’2. It’s nice that people are thinking outside the box, but I don’t believe any of it for a minute.”
Sigh.
Of course, maybe it’s really Tyrion who’s the sex symbol, and Dinklage has that going for him. I fell for the character’s wit in the book, but I certainly wouldn’t have had the same feelings for the mass murdering bigot who invented the sentinels. (*Throws popcorn* BOOOOOOO, HISS!!!!)
If you’re not in the mood for feeling towering rage, be sure not to read this article on Les Moonves:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/designing-women-creator-les-moonves-not-all-harassment-is-sexual-1142448
@ Alan Robertshaw;
I did not know that about Napoleon n his French feet, thanx!
@Weatherby;
I had a co-worker whose son was very tall, the boy would likely appreciate this sentiment. In high school he lamented that “… there’s no shame like being a 7′-1″ white guy who can’t play basketball”
@Genjones
I’m about 5’8″, my partner is 4’10”, I rather like that arrangement :p
I can’t be the only one who had a crush on Warwick Davis growing up, can I?