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Today’s horror from the world of incels: “Rape is a valid mating strategy for ugly men”

Being a resentful creepy weirdo: not an effective mating strategy

By David Futrelle

Here’s today’s terrible, er, insight from the world of the so-called “involuntarily celibate,” found on the Braincels subreddit (and archived here).

4morebricks 1 point an hour ago* Rape is as valid of a mating strategy for ugly men as literally any mating strategy other men employ. Just because Chads/Stacies came together and agreed to cut unattractive men out of the gene pool doesn't mean ugly mens' mating strategies are morally inferior. Bottom line: if women want the freedom to decide whose genes are passed on to future generations, they'll have to accept the anger of men who aren't chosen.

There’s really nothing about this comment that isn’t horrifyingly wrong, huh? Even aside from the fucking rape apologia, there’s this assumption that “passing your genes on to future generations” is somehow every man’s sacred right. and that “Chad and Stacey” are somehow conspiring to deny this “right” to ugly men.Who even thinks like this?

It’s bizarre thing to have to say this out loud, but no, incel dudes, not only are you not entitled to sex with women who don’t want to have anything to do with you, but you are also not entitled to impregnate a woman against her will and force her to carry the pregnancy to term because you have some weird fixation on passing on your genes.

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Godzilla Roberts
Godzilla Roberts
3 years ago

On today’s episode of Serial Killer Logic….

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

If rape is a valid mating strategy for ugly men, spermjacking is a valid mating strategy for ugly women. I’m sure manospherians would have to agree that’s fair, right?

calmdown
calmdown
3 years ago

The use of the ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ emoji really assures me that rape is no big deal! Thank goodness he added that or I would be freaked out by his statement.

Hexum7
Hexum7
3 years ago

Just when I thought that yesterday’s “lock her up” fantasy was the lowest these guys could go…

I know they are trying to outdo each other in some some of creep contest- but as they all have some sort of severe personality, disorder should this kind of rhetoric even be allowed? This is terrorism, plain and simple

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
3 years ago

Now the fact that he’s trying to justify rape is one thing, but not even properly using the shrug emoji?! Now that’s a crime against humanity /s

BardicLiving
BardicLiving
3 years ago

Wait hang on though I thought only women were ugly; men age like a fine wine until age 55.

No wait *no* women are ugly, that’s why it’s so much easier to be a woman; they can have sex whenever they want.

No wait the problem is that society is telling women that they’re all beautiful, that’s why they’re letting themselves go and becoming so undesirable.

No wait all women are desirable, that’s why it’s so cruel of them to withhold attention from men.

No wait, if a woman rejects a man it’s because it means she actually desires them, it’s part of the devious game they play.

No wait, women aren’t devious they’re irrational and confused, that’s why society has to protect them like children.

No wait women need to be treated like adults, the problem is that society infantilizes them and gives them whatever they want.

Anyway when will society do the right thing and give men whatever they want?

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
3 years ago

@Hexum7:

Internet diagnosing? Really?

And the rhetoric is allowed by the First Amendment. But the lot of them should be on some kind of watchlist, for potential terrorism and potential rape. I’ll bet ten of them have attempted or committed rape for every one that’s done a Rodgers or Minassian style mass casualty attack.

These people need to be surveilled, and the moment any one of them commits a crime, that one gets the book thrown at them. Preferably the one from Anathem.

dust bunny
dust bunny
3 years ago

“passing your genes on to future generations” is somehow every man’s sacred right

And it is! They’re entirely free to become swamp bodies or ice mummies. Future archeologists will rejoice! I can’t imagine a better thing they could do.

Fluffy Spider Returns
Fluffy Spider Returns
3 years ago

So they are reading over these types of future serial killer/rapist manifestos and they still think its their looks?
And not the fact the shit they say is legimately scary ?

Whaaaaaaaa

calmdown
calmdown
3 years ago

How effective is rape really as a reproductive strategy in humans? Assuming your rape is successful and you don’t end up in jail or murdered by her family for the crime, you have to get her pregnant on the first try, and assume she won’t get an abortion. The number of babies conceived successfully this way I just don’t think is that high. That’s why it’s not the strategy most humans use(apart from the moral reasons). If these guys really just cared about passing on their DNA they could go donate their genes to a sperm bank, but they don’t really care about that. They just want to justify rape.

Some Guy
Some Guy
3 years ago

If rape is a valid mating strategy for ugly men, spermjacking is a valid mating strategy for ugly women. I’m sure manospherians would have to agree that’s fair, right?

More to the point, killing this specific commenter is a valid mating strategy for anyone near him.

It’s almost like we’ve improved on the default state of nature and now these things don’t have to happen or something >_>

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
3 years ago

… and white people should be able to block the progress of all people of color, because whites are being actively exterminated (except they’re not being actively exterminated)

… and conspiracy fantasists should be able to threaten those who disagree with them, because conservative voices are being censored (except they’re not being censored)

… and ugly men should be able to rape, because men are shut out of social interaction with women because of their appearance (except they’re not….)

I would suggest, my ugly brothers, you get on OK Cupid, spend some effort, and (… “effort”), and see wh… (“EFFORT!” Y’know, “WORK”!!)… put a bio out there, people who have common interests will respond. I know. I’m uglier’n sin on Sunday, and I had several women respond. Then, all you gotta do is have some sincere, respectful conversations with the folks, and… (“respectful conversations!”) …

Oh, i think I see the root of yer problem….

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
3 years ago

Considering that they’re probably all eugenicists at heart, why exactly do they think ugly people have a right to pass on their genes? Surely the Sacred White Race would only be improved if they didn’t.

I mean, I know better than to expect logic from them, but still.

numerobis
numerobis
3 years ago

calmdown: rape is unfortunately about as likely to lead to pregnancy as consensual unprotected sex. And it’s not a crime with a great track record of prosecution.

That’s kind of the opposite of a moral justification in favour.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Numerobis,

Sure if you compare one act of rape to one act of consensual sex.

If one wants to us rape to reproduce, he has to hope his victim doesn’t take hormonal BC and doesn’t have a BC implant, won’t get emergency contraception, won’t get an abortion and happens to be ovulating at the time of the rape. That’s pretty small odds.

In a consensual sexual relationship in which both parties want a pregnancy, they can have sex everyday or use ovulation sticks and cervical mucus checks to figure out when the optimal days for sex are and abortion is much less likely. The chance of a pregnancy being carried to term is just so much higher.

Even taking morality out of it, rape is just such a piss poor reproductive strategy for humans.

Of course, I don’t think any of these guys really want to spread their genes so bad. They just want to tell themselves that they’d be justified in raping a woman.

Chris Oakley
3 years ago

Somebody needs to go Seal Team Six on these jerks. I’m not kidding.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
3 years ago

Rape is a mating strategy in the same way that mugging is a wealth building strategy.

@calmdown:

If these guys really just cared about passing on their DNA they could go donate their genes to a sperm bank, but they don’t really care about that.

I think you’re right. Children are “I Had Sex!!!!” trophies for these guys. A sperm bank won’t do, because no PiV sex is involved and it’s anonymous. Nobody will know that the incel’s genes were passed on, least of all the incel. Where’s the validation in that?

That’s assuming that sperm banks would accept them in the first place, which they wouldn’t. Not because of sperm quality or looks, but because sperm banks do extensive personality screening, and these dinkpoodles would instantly disqualify themselves. You can’t hide that sort of venomous contempt for women.

Iseult The Idle
Iseult The Idle
3 years ago

The more of these things I read, the more I think preying mantises have the right approach.

TreePerson
TreePerson
3 years ago

@weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Also a child conceived intentionally by a couple prepared to raise them has better odds of surviving until they reproduce themselves,
not to mention just having a more stable home life.

Kids are expensive and these people consider helping with that expense worse then the rape they so want to commit.

(Also finally did a gravatar! How is it?)

Z&T
Z&T
3 years ago

@ Buttercup Q,

About the mugging and wealth building strategies, so you’re saying this is a bad idea? But what if I would put the proceeds in an index fund?

😀

I’m being a smart ass, this did remind my friend here of a strange thing ..

Some guy their family knew. He was a wealthy businessman. Then he fell on hard times. And had health issues. And then “died”. That was all questionable, no one (and he had enough of relatives, friends, and biz associates), would ID his body, after much time some real estate person he did biz with once ID’d him, it was all weird.

What they think might’ve happened – the guy skipped town and killed a homeless person to stand in for his corpse.

oO

mwr
mwr
3 years ago

BardicLiving, that post is a thing of genius.

hexum7
3 years ago

the way i reckon, i wasn’t offering a diagnosis, as i only wrote about an unspecific problem.

am i wrong? i’ll try to avoid it in the future, anyway.

But, yes, these people are promoting violence, and definitely should be put in watch lists, if they already haven’t been

Raven, Nudger of Dead Things and Loremaster of Dark Ugly Places
Raven, Nudger of Dead Things and Loremaster of Dark Ugly Places
3 years ago

I’ve never seen a better illustration of how rape (at least in the case of humans) isn’t usually about sex or reproduction, so much as it is about power and enjoying humiliating someone else. He’s transparently hiding behind the idea of rape being about sex/reproduction, when what he clearly wants is to compel one of these women that he so obviously loathes to acknowledge his “superiority” over her by forcing himself on her.

IMO people who are established to have used their genitals for violent purposes should have those instruments of violence taken away by any means necessary, much like how you take sticks away from the kids that hit others with them.

I wish there was a way to get it through these jerks’ skulls that the problem has nothing to do with being ugly, at least not ugly on the OUTSIDE. They always think everyone else is the problem, and yet, every last one of them is only slightly less charming and inviting than a rabid skunk.

Diptych
Diptych
3 years ago

IMO people who are established to have used their genitals for violent purposes should have those instruments of violence taken away by any means necessary, much like how you take sticks away from the kids that hit others with them.

Man, we really do not need governments having the legal power to mutilate its citizens – especially not when the fight for bodily autonomy is already so difficult.

Catalpa
Catalpa
3 years ago

@ Hexum

Saying that the incels have “severe personality disorders” causing them to be abhorrent garbage people implies that the cause of their awfulness is some clinical condition, which doesn’t fit the “no crazy talk” portion of this site’s comment policy.

I mean, they obviously have disgusting, vile personalities, don’t get me wrong. It’s the disorder part of the statement that’s raising some red flags for some of us. No worries, just try to avoid it in the future.

Full Metal Ox
3 years ago

@Z&T:

Your story about the mysterious death of the possible runaway businessman sounds like the plot of the song”I Died Today” by Rodd Keith:

Raven, Nudger of Dead Things and Loremaster of Dark Ugly Places
Raven, Nudger of Dead Things and Loremaster of Dark Ugly Places
3 years ago

Am I advocating it in a serious way? No. I’m musing “aloud”. It’s just a dumb idea that will never happen in a million years, along similar lines of wishful thinking that kiddie diddlers should ideally have their heads spontaneously explode.

Oh, I know I am more than a little salty about the whole fight for bodily autonomy. But there is admittedly a part of me that fears or believes men will never fully understand what “fighting for bodily autonomy” actually means to uterus owners, unless they have bodily autonomy of their own at stake that they can remember (I’m not a fan of circumcision either, ftr, but most men don’t remember it, and a great many who do resent being circumcised are able to stretch themselves a new foreskin if they really really want to have one, largely without risk to their health/lives, so I’m not sure it’s comparable to a woman desperately needing an abortion and resorting to a back-alley coathanger, or overdose, or alcohol, or falling down the stairs……….)

I’m just frustrated. Given my depressing life, the political climate and the conservative hole I’m forced to live in, I feel more than a little hopeless about ever being able to have the same FUNCTIONAL rights (as opposed to lip-service “rights”) or be able to command the same degree of basic respect and human dignity as a man. All because I happened to be born with the wrong parts between my legs that somehow mean I’m subhuman at worst, held to a bunch of impossible and contradictory standards in the middle (thank you, BardicLiving!), or at the very least not to be taken too seriously because, you know, those emotional, irrational women….

but ok.

BradMoonRising
BradMoonRising
3 years ago

I’m sure that if our guy had the right bone-structure, wrist-thickness, eye-width, etc., he’d be rolling in ‘tang on the daily. I mean, really, what else could possibly be the problem with this dude?

Fetch
Fetch
3 years ago

@Raven: the thing is that the alt right and the incels say the same thing. Oh, it’s just talk. It’s just rhetoric, I don’t really mean it, I don’t really want that to happen.

So if we let you propose that legally mandated mutilation is good actually, and we accept that you’re just venting and don’t take you seriously, why don’t we do the same for the violent misogynists who propose women be lobotomised?

We do you, and them, a different courtesy. We do you the honour of assuming you mean what you say.

And you know, we understand. We get it. You’re among friends here. Everyone here understands your frustration, how limiting and frightening it is to be female and surrounded by right wingers and not to have your rights. You don’t have to convince us that bad things are bad; we agree. We’ll sympathise, if you want to talk about it, but you don’t need the rhetorical sledgehammer. The door’s already open. We believe you.

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
3 years ago

I’m not a fan of circumcision either, ftr, but most men don’t remember it,

so if someone doesn’t remember that part of their body was removed when they were a baby and can’t say yes or no, it is okay?

especially something like genitals which is really important that we understand we do not make unnecessary surgery on them when someone is a child. they can’t consent. cirucmsicison is one thing, but this also supports mutilation of intersex people to try and make them look more “normal”. Not remmembering is a shit excuse.

body autonomy is a single line. it is all or not at all. saying one thing is less than another does not support your argument, which I fully agree.

great many who do resent being circumcised are able to stretch themselves a new foreskin if they really really want to have one, largely without risk to their health/lives,

not all can afford this stretching, especially in USA, where circumcision is very common. second the part which is removed is all sensitive parts, which stretching will not return. Third, many of people who have genital mutilation (even if they don’t remember) suffer mental health problems because of what happened to them, so there is a risk to health. second, circumcision and “correcion” surgery for intersex people can permanently damage people’s genitals and stop sexual pleasure & make people infirtile. it is quite serious.

I respect you want to vent, but why we should rank what is worse or better when we talk about abuse of people’s bodys? bodily autonomy should be 100% for all. if it is not then it is not truly autonomy.

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
3 years ago

In the same thread that David quoted from, an individual with the homophobic name LyricThrowAgay says something unintentionally hilarious:

It’s why all those shitty genes still exist, because they aren’t subject to natrual selection.

If you’re going to advise us how to build better human beings, you should probably use Spell Check.

Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko, Regicidal Beast-of-Burden
Sinkable John : Pansy Ass Pinko, Regicidal Beast-of-Burden
3 years ago

Wait wait wait. Ain’t any woman somebody’s daughter ? The daughter of a man who’s passing on his genes ? Wouldn’t inflicting violence on her compromise the sacred duty and right of passing on that man’s genes ?

Just asking questions.

Dvärghundspossen
Dvärghundspossen
3 years ago

What Weirwoodtreehugger said. A single unprotected sex act at a randomly chosen day of the month doesn’t have that high a probability of leading to pregnancy to begin with, since women are infertile most of the time. Adding the fact that many women are on the pill or the like, and that most of the tiny number who do get pregnant after a rape will likely abort – the probability of spreading your genes through rape must be absolutely miniscule.

Katamount
Katamount
3 years ago

*sigh* These guys really do admire Ariel Castro more than they care to admit. Dave can probably answer this best: do you ever see any Ariel Castro or Josef Fritzl admiration on incel forums? These guys are awfully attached to Eliot Rodger, but really, don’t Castro and Fritzl better conform to how they want to treat women?

…incidentally, there’s actually a place just off Signal Hill called Cuckhold’s Cove. Although Snake Island is probably the better option.

There’s also a place called Dildo. Seriously, Newfoundland has the best place names!

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ katamount

do you ever see any Ariel Castro or Josef Fritzl admiration on incel forums

Well, if you want to stick on your NBC suit, you can start here:

https://incels.me/threads/i-really-dont-think-3-girls-can-be-just-kidnapped-or-captured.44509/#post-796216

https://incels.me/threads/did-josef-fritzl-do-anything-wrong.55664/#post-1034758

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
3 years ago

I think I may have been spending too much time on this site. Last night I had a dream in which Steve Bannon was having a televised debate with Roosh. I don’t remember what they were disagreeing over, but possibly the worst part was that Roosh occasionally got off a zinger that left Bannon getting angrily red in the face.

Yutolia the Green Hash Thing
Yutolia the Green Hash Thing
3 years ago

I have a reoccurring night terror that involves both klowns (yes, with a k) and the World Trade Center… but yours still sounds worse, Rabbit!!!

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
3 years ago

@Rabid Rabbit;

Last nite I dreamed I had lost my harmonica and I was trying to play a plastic toy one… while a giant shark kept jumping out of water and eating the people in the house…

I dunno WHERE that came from….

(A)utonomous Escapist
(A)utonomous Escapist
3 years ago

I’d suggest that Incels wear some kind of symbol to show their allegiance to Murder-Rape-Creepyness, but that also has some unfortunate connotations and implications.

In truth, they would need help to understand how terribly, er, terrible they and their world-view are, and then some serious re-education. And empathy-training. Sooooo much empathy-training.

Fishy Goat
Fishy Goat
3 years ago

@Katamount Both my daughter *and* my sister visited Dildo this summer (at different times). 😀

@Alan Robertshaw Ew! And for some reason I was surprised – maybe because those two men are somewhat older than incels’ usual ‘heroes’…. 😛

Cohen the Librarian
Cohen the Librarian
3 years ago

While I understand that from an evolutionary perspective we are “designed” to engage in behaviours that may result in us passing on our genes, the idea that this means it is essential for any of one of us in particular to pass on our genes is utterly ludicrous. If we want to actually leave an imprint on the world we must one day leave behind, how about we do that by acting in a way that helps make this a world where we all can enjoy our existence?

Yeah, I know. Trying to reason with incels is silly, but geesh…

Valkyrine
Valkyrine
3 years ago

I had a dream where some guy got a candystick stuck on my hair and once it finally came off, it took a chunk of my hair with it. When I started complaining about it, my brother popped up from somewhere to defend this guy (they were apparently friends, but it was just some random dude in my dream I can’t remember ever meeting). Anyway, they tried to minimize it by saying it was just a few strands of hair, no big deal, even if I showed them the huge bald spot I received. Of course once I started musing that I’ll have to get a side shaved hairdo, my brother started acting all disgusted at the idea (which is something he does) since he doesn’t like the look. I remember my resolve to do it grew out of spite, but I think I might of woken up from seething so strongly. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Tosca, Chaos made Flesh, Servant of the Purring Jew
Tosca, Chaos made Flesh, Servant of the Purring Jew
3 years ago

I recently dreamed that I was impersonating an ancient pagan demon by putting a black rubbish bag over my head and skipping down a path. People started sacrificing sheep to me. By hurling them into a stream.

Bina
3 years ago

“…they’ll have to accept the anger of those who weren’t chosen”?

Uh, NO. I refuse to accept that, just as I refuse to accept your “genes”. You’ll have to deal with your “anger” some other, more constructive way. If any woman finds herself the target of your “anger”, she’s within her rights to punch your lights out. Or worse.

Dalillama
Dalillama
3 years ago

The Newfoundland town and the sex toy share an etymology. The original meaning of ‘dildo’ is the post on which an oarlock is mounted on a rowboat. The town was so-called because lots of people there made rowboats, the sex toy due to a similar shape.

Kevin
Kevin
3 years ago

If we’re mentioning ‘rude’ names, I’ll throw in Wanker’s Corner in (I think) Oregon.

katzentier
katzentier
3 years ago

@LindsayIrene
While the point that the article makes, is an important one (correcting the BS beliefs that the anti-choice faction trotts out to justify their inhumane, cruel stances), they kinda make it sound like rape leads to pregnancy at a higher rate than consensual sex (given equal circumstances), because they gloss over this:
That number shows us, given the low likelihood of getting pregnant, how fucking depressingly common rape is if the US ends up at 32.000 pregnancies a year resulting from it. And i’m sure the actual incidence is higher too, since women have to selfreport that their pregnancy resulted from rape.

That doesnt make rape an effective reproductive strategy, neither to get a woman pregnant in the first place, nor to actually raise the offspring succesfully. That just proves rape culture.

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
3 years ago

re “rude” names (I’m kind of too low right now to post anything other than insignificant nonsense (ETA which everyone already knows, come to think of it, but what the heck there are worse things than stating the obvious sometimes)): considering that Spanish is the second most spoken language in the world, you’d think that Mitsubishi might have noticed before naming one of their SUVs the “Mitsubishi Wanker”. They had to re-name the Pajero for the Spanish-speaking market, but when you see all the pajeros riding around city streets here in a great big oh-so-manly rugged off-road advertisement for their 100% urban wankerdom it’s nice to know they have at least advertised themselves correctly.

Anonymous
Anonymous
3 years ago

I don’t see that post show up in the thread you linked to, or anything that supports it.