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doggoes jordan "slappy" peterson misogyny PUA twitter

Worst. Pickup. Line. Ever. (Courtesy of Jordan Peterson)

Ewww

By David Futrelle

Well, this little joke went over well on Twitter so I thought I’d post it here too.

Here’s one that didn’t go over quite as well. But it might just come to haunt your dreams.

Some good-ass tweets by people who aren’t me:

https://twitter.com/BoringEnormous/status/1028321380213907458

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Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
2 years ago

@ London Pilgrim

My solution is a society that does not devide men into Alpha and Beta

The only people dividing men into ‘Alphas’ and ‘Betas’ are incels and their ilk; people here think it’s all a bit silly.

Alaniel (aka LittleLurker)
Alaniel (aka LittleLurker)
2 years ago

It’s the incels who insist on the division of people into alpha and beta and whatnot. It’s also the incels who believe that getting laid or not is one of the defining factors of a person’s identity (hint: it’s in the name). You seem to be somewhat confused as to which group you’re currently addressing. Maybe it’s that tiredness Valentine mentioned taking it’s toll on you?

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
2 years ago

@London Pilgrim

Is virginity such a crime?

No, and it isn’t feminists who are pushing the alpha alpha-ness that says this. That would be the MRAs, alt-right, PUAs, MGTOW, etc etc etc. I’m going to just call them ‘alt-right’ for now.

Does it really make a man a useless loser or a creep or does he remain a human being?

Please post where someone has said this. Virgin =/= useless loser.

Creep, though… Creepy always equals creep. I don’t care the status of your sex life, a creep is a creep is a creep.

I think most incels could be reconciled to their status if only they were respected as people. To tell lies about them- based on nothing but bigotry drives them to the margins and this is dangerous.

Big ol’ nope-eroni there. Have you actually looked at anything they ever posted? You talk about how feminists only want to hurt men, they don’t care about women who get hurt in the crossfire.

Incels only want to hurt women. They don’t care about getting better at all, about finding a fulfilling relationship, about finding friendships or anything.

They just hate that women won’t have sex with them. They hate the women who are interested in them, because they are not HB10s, and have been pumped and dumped.

They hate that they are unhappy, but will not allow anyone to say ‘Hey, maybe blaming women for all of our problems isn’t the way to solve them?’

Incels are angry, angry men. I wish they would see that women (and all who aren’t cis-men) are humans like they are, but… they won’t.

As soon as they do, they won’t be incels any more. *shrug*

kupo
kupo
2 years ago

Is virginity such a crime? Does it really make a man a useless loser or a creep or does he remain a human being?

No, and you’ll have a hard time finding any feminists who believe that. But you’ll find plenty of incels who believe it. Don’t worry, though, feminists are working to dismantle the societal structures that make people believe in bullshit like this.

Gaebolga
Gaebolga
2 years ago

London Pilgrim/Richard Ford wrote:

My solution is a society that does not devide men into Alpha and Beta in such a savage and perminant way.

Funny, the only people I see dividing men up into Alpha and Beta is men’s rights assholes and alt-right dumbfucks.

I would like it to be possible for a man who is unlucky in love to be respected for the good he does in the world even if he remains a virgin till the day he dies.

Well, most people who do good in the world are respected, and I honestly don’t know if any of them were virgins or not because it doesn’t fucking matter. Name me one person – just one – who did great things for the world but was disrespected for being a virgin.

Was Jesus a virgin? What about Aristotle?

Is virginity such a crime? Does it really make a man a useless loser or a creep or does he remain a human being?

You know, the only people I see who think being a virgin makes you a loser – besides teenage assholes – are incels. Where are all of these non-incels who say that being a virgin makes you useless?

Back up your claim.

I think most incels could be reconciled to their status if only they were respected as people.

Well, we all know the quality of your thinking.

To tell lies about them- based on nothing but bigotry drives them to the margins and this is dangerous.

Ah yes, engaging in that most pernicious of lies: quoting them directly.

London Pilgrim
London Pilgrim
2 years ago

@alan

These are objective states rather than just words. Is it not surprising that the victims talk about it more than the victimisers?

If they were only words we could leave it to the chattering classes and ignore it all.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
2 years ago

Incel is a,specific label belonging to those who participate in that community. Incel is not synonym for male virgin. Therefore, criticizing incels is not saying that men who are virgins have no value.

You can’t even tell if someone is a virgin unless they tell you anyway. Even if I wanted to be prejudiced against male virgins, it would be hard to put into practice

Gaebolga
Gaebolga
2 years ago

London Pilgrim/Richard Ford wrote:

These are objective states rather than just words.

I don’t have a lot of confidence that you understand what constitutes an objective state. Please define the parameters of “Alpha” and “Beta” as it relates to male humans.

…and please note that an objective state is true regardless subjective filters.

At this point, it’s beyond clear that you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.

London Pilgrim
London Pilgrim
2 years ago

@treehugger

It is not nessasary to follow an incel down the street hurling insults. All that ‘progressive’ folk need to do is make a woman’s approval the litmus test of everything. An incel is not approved of on the most basic level by a woman and therefore the incel has no value as a human being under this system.

We need to start valuing people as human beings independent of the number of notches on their bedposts.

Violet the Vile, Moonbat Screech Junky
Violet the Vile, Moonbat Screech Junky
2 years ago

@London Pilgrim

What do you hope to achieve by being here? Serious question. Why are you here, commenting?

You’re not going to sell your viewpoint to us. I am a woman who earns her own money, owns her own home, and gets to pick the people she shares a bed with. You are suggesting that I should sign on the line to give up those rights. Please explain, in what way does your idea of a society benefit me?

TBH there is no point answering that, because the world you are describing does not benefit me in any way whatsoever. My life will not be better, and I don’t do shit that doesn’t make my life better. So I’m not going to sign up for it, because why would I? And why should I? And why are you even bothering to try and convince me?

Or do you just like having your ass kicked 🙂

Gaebolga
Gaebolga
2 years ago

London Pilgrim/Richard Ford wrote:

All that ‘progressive’ folk need to do is make a woman’s approval the litmus test of everything.

And your evidence that progressive – or even ‘progressive’ – folks do that is….

An incel is not approved of on the most basic level by a woman…

Even their moms hate them? That’s very sad.

As is the warrant underlying this statement.

…and therefore the incel has no value as a human being under this system.

And your evidence that the world actually works this way is….

We need to start valuing people as human beings independent of the number of notches on their bedposts.

If by “we” you mean “incels, MRAs, and alt-right dipshits,” then you’ve finally said something I can agree with.

But if you’re implying that the number of sexual partners someone has matters to everyone else – especially to the extent that their value as a human being is dependent upon it – then by all means, show us your evidence that supports this claim.

Because we haven’t seen anything from you but stupidity and bullshit. If everything you claim is true, the evidence should be easy to find.

Bring it.

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

@London Pilgrim
I’m challenging you.

I’ve got some things to say about your comments here but first I need to take a measure of your honesty. This determines how I choose to proceed with you.

In you first comment you typed,

Why not let them read it? If he is as wrong as you say then he will discredit himself.

…and so far you have not acknowledged the responses you got about this. This is not brave or honest of you. If you have the guts to make an accusation you have the guts to back that shit up.

Did you or did you not misrepresent the blog post and/or commentators? (you diddn’t quote who you were accusing).
It was criticized. No one was stopping anyone from reading anything or even trying to. People were criticizing things.

If you have evidence that anyone here was trying to to stop anyone from reading anything present it.

If you don’t respond I’ll feel no need for politeness (though there really is no way of being polite about incompetent at tasks, it’s more like I’ll include extra unflattering but accurate characterizations that I might not otherwise).

Violet the Vile, Moonbat Screech Junky
Violet the Vile, Moonbat Screech Junky
2 years ago

Off topic but ContraPoints has just posted an incels video

https://youtu.be/fD2briZ6fB0

I can’t remember who it was who originally posted ContraPoints, but, whoever you are, I went from “I don’t know who that is” to “fully in love and fantasising about marriage” in approx a minute so thanks haha

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
2 years ago

We need to start valuing people as human beings independent of the number of notches on their bedposts.

You need to be saying this on incel forums, not here. Everyone here came to this realization long ago. But at least we agree on something.

Does your definition of “people” include women, or only men?

An incel is not approved of on the most basic level by a woman and therefore the incel has no value as a human being under this system.

Can you elaborate on “approved of”? What does a woman’s approval look like?

If you mean “allows you into her bed”, then I think we’re done here, because you’ve just violated your quote above, about valuing people independently of what they do in bed.

London Pilgrim
London Pilgrim
2 years ago

@gaebolga

The problem is- and always has been- feminism. The very word itself makes this obvious. Feminism holds that female perception and values are better than male perception and values.

What the hell these things are is not explained.

This outlook has infected all areas of the culture so that there is no escape from it. The logical conclusion is that the incel is worthless because the incel is perceived by women to be worthless.

There are a few refuges remaining. The largest of which are the Church and the armed forces. Unfortunately is is becoming harder to beleve in God with each passing year.

Pickup is no solution. It is yet another way to beg for approval. The Incel community is worse.

The only way forward is the destruction of feminism but there is no force capable of doing so.

Radical Islam might do this but this brings its own problems.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
2 years ago

EDIT: Went longer than I thought. Edited down a bit. The punchline is in the last few paragraphs, for the impatient. Get yourself a coffee.

Okay! @London Pilgrim. You’re well-spoken enough, though fractally wrong, so I’ll do you the service of responding by the numbers. We can start at the top and work our way down. First, the general case for free speech.

I am not sure why finding value in free speech makes me a ‘traditionalist. I wish free speech as the tradition throughout the world. In fact it is quite radical in many places.

You’re free to say what you like about Jordie P. So are we. We’re free to mock him and to call him harmful, damaging, and fractally wrong, and we are free to share evidence for our beliefs.

Again, you confuse criticism and censorship.

Seriously, though. Why not make a case against what he says and in favour of something better? We have seen insults, threats and one woman who broke into his lecture hall with a garrotte, presumably with murder on her mind.

Just tell us where he is wrong.

Same reason I don’t bother telling Nazis why Jewish people are just normal people like anyone else. Arguments have been made against his opinions in many forms; the true believers are insulated from them by the strength of their convictions alone. We’ve told you that Jordie P’s premises are flawed and built upon science that was discredited decades ago – to such a degree that you can’t even take a first-year University course in Peterson’s own field without learning that. We’ve told you that his enforced monogamy has force right in the fucking name.

You’re convinced that enforced monogamy is going to make everyone happy, on zero evidence, and I’m highly dubious that anything will budge you from that. So I don’t see any purpose in trying to use argument to do so; you can’t argue someone out of a position they didn’t argue themselves into, as they say.

To wit:

100 years ago we had enforced monogamy without a secret police force to enforce it or people even knowing it was enforced.

Monogamy was simply the way things were. So you see.. there is nothing sinister or authoritarian about it at all.

When people confront Peterson supporters on his enforced monogamy quote, it’s invariably pointed out that the term is a scientific term referring to cultural practices. Which is true – it’s from behavioural biology, a field parallel to Jordie’s. It refers to a species’ mating habits. Birds are famously monogamous, as example. So are humans.

As in, we are, right now. Our society enforces monogamy – the fact that we have emotions like jealousy, protectiveness, and the like are indicative here. Our species is monogamous, and we have behavioural traits that enforce that monogamy.

But this isn’t what Jordie P was talking about. He was talking about it as a reason for Incel violence and general violence against women. Which has nothing to do with the actual enforced monogamy, and everything to do with the definition Alan so helpfully provided you. Peterson, ever vague and mendacious, uses the term in its biological form when confronted, while using his own malicious definition when talking to his believers.

You’d know this if you did your fucking homework. I’ve said this a dozen times to various Peterson fans who’ve stumbled into these forums, punch-drunk with victorian rationalia. Not once have they responded to it by looking up what the actual terms are, or recognizing their error. Usually they deflect or ignore the point. This is what I suspect you might do as well.

We just need to get back to what works and most people will soon forget about being lesbian squirrels or transgender donkeys or whatever the latest gender fad is.

They will not miss it at all.

I’m going to ignore your hostile minimization of the suffering of others here, otherwise you’ll fixate on how mean I am to deflect from my actual point.

Historically, those people would be imprisoned or dead, or medicated on laudanum or alcohol. That, incidentally, should make a very clear point of why we fight. Compassion is our guiding star. Our hostility is reserved for the hostile, our intolerance is reserved for the intolerant.

Men have far more social pressure to ‘man up and get married’ not least on this site. A MGTOW is assumed to hate women when more often they do not wish to support one.

I agree that men have unfair pressure to get married. It’s quite unfair and regressive. That is, incidentally, a feminist position. Feminists don’t want men to feel pressure to get married. We would rather you marry when you choose, to who you choose, no matter their sex, gender, race, or social role. We want your freedom. I know that’s pretty much the dominant sentiment here. As WWTH pointed out, that’s a problem with traditional society, not feminism.

I have to sorta laugh here, though, Mr London. You know what an anthropologist would call this horrible pressure to be married, and the negative social ramifications to the unmarried? They call that enforced monogamy. Social pressure to pair off, with punishment for those who don’t want to.

Back to the days when men and women (especially women) reported being far happier than they do now.

Citation please.

No, really. Back then, surveys weren’t done on peoples’ happiness. No one knows how happy people were. It’s pointed out above how common domestic abuse was reported, though. And we’ve also talked about how common it was for people to self-medicate with laudanum, cocaine or alcohol.

Do you really think that they’d care whether women were happy, back then? You refer to a fantasy world.

As for people writing poetry – sure, people did. They still do. Peel open your eyes and open your heart, and you’ll see outbursts of love between people. It’s everywhere. But you’re in love with the victorian age, and don’t consider those modern expressions to have the same depth. You’re in love with the past, with ideas that don’t exist, and you want to drag us back to that dusty grave where women were silent and the non-conforming were locked away in hospitals.

It is probably impossible to tell is someone is happy or not with perfect certainty. All we can do is ask them which is why I said reported happiness. Women, in particular get less happy under feminism unless we are to assume they are all lying.

In this you reply to lovely Buttercup with some actual true facts – women, particularly white women, report lower happiness since the 70’s. That’s a real thing, documented in a few places. I’ve read the paper that introduced and discussed it, it’s “The Paradox of Declining Female Happiness.”

You make the same mistake as many novice science readers. The author made a number of conjectures about why this might be possible. You, or the source you learned about this from, read those conjectures and took them to be proven, whereas the real reason it’s happened is unknown. The author suggested what you suggest – that greater equality has led to lower happiness. This they suggested from the top of their head and made sure to point out that it’s just a conjecture.

Know what else might cause that? Women, having to work a job and being expected to uphold the traditional duties of a hosuewife. Unlike the conjecture of the author, this is well documented as being the case – persistent harassment and sexism in the workplace is ongoing to this day, and the expectations of being the sole keeper of the home and tender for children have not significantly abated.

The latter has evidence, the former is a conjecture. Which of the two do you prefer for an explanation? You make it obvious which you like more:

It may be that people ask themselves ‘compared to what’ when asked the question. In other words a woman asked 100 years ago if she was happy might be happy because quite limited expectations are met.

Her husband is kind, a good provider and so on. True, he is a bit ugly and he farts a lot but how much can one person expect?

You presume the best possible outcome of an instance of enforced monogamy here – that the match isn’t ideal for her but that her husband is inherently good. You also make it clear that you think women are unhappy just because their expectations are too high, and that if they were to just accept a man who’s just “a bit ugly” they’d be happy. This is so comically wrong I’d need a much longer post to address it to any depth.

You paint an idyllic picture of the past which has nothing to do with the way it actually was.

If I were a feminist and you were a man I would call you a rapist for asking that question.

Stuff that feminist-suit full of straw a bit more firmly, the bale’s peeking out.

Very odd when you think I want to ‘go back’ to anything. These things are cyclical as you should know, claiming to be a historian and all.

Things were pretty ‘progressive’ around the fall of Rome. Then they got all reactionary as Europe left the dark ages. Sophisticated thinkers such as yourself no doubt think it a coincidence…

Feminists simply want to recreate Nero’s Rome. Not an ambition I share.

There’s a broad distance between the satisfying mathematical synchronicities of the various social cycle theories in sociology and the history as golden-age metaphor propagandistic cheerleading you advocate. Don’t confuse the two.

I mean, you have confused the two, very deeply. But you shouldn’t do that.

Now, as I’ve been typing this, you’ve been having a nice row with WWTH. I won’t get too deep into that, WWTH is more than capable and I love to read her writing. But I will make one little point here:

For some bizarre reason you have decided to oppose the notion that large groups of disenfranchised men with no stake in the current system is a bad thing. You admit that it actually makes feminist points in a strange way. Feminists like to pretend ALL men are savages while I contend that many men are capable of becoming one.

Feminists don’t pretend all men are savages – many of the people on this board are men, and almost all of us love men, like men, and are thrilled to have them in our lives. What we dislike are those elements of masculinity which hurt women.

Jordie P’s point that “many men are capable of becoming savages” is nothing more than a blatant threat, with “enforced monogamy” as his solution. Behave, women, threaten ye, else your man-folk will grow angry with you, and an angry man will destroy the world to have his revenge.

I say the same as I would to any bald-faced threat; molon labe.

And here you are repeating that threat at us, unwitting or not, and ask us why we’re angry.

There are certain common factors within empires that fall. One is sexual indulgence and gender confusion. Greece Rome Egypt and possible all others.

Debt and welfare seem to be in the mix too. It certainly was with the British empire.

Of course we cannot say with certainty these were the causes- but so far the coincidence seems to be 100%.

Slightly higher than chance.

lol

I mean, I know that most people don’t really understand statistics, but usually they don’t try to pretend that they do.

Like, I won’t even get into the whole “gender confusion” and “sexual indulgence” part of it; though books have been written on the reverberating wrongness of your position. I’ll just point out that you can also correlate global economic health to the fat content of Wisconsin cheese.

Finally, you did address me directly back there; I’ll give you a direct reply.

There is something I genuinely do not understand. Why are the feminists who post here so often angry about things? You are the establishment now and have been for 60 years. You have the media, acedema ext ext on your side. Most of you seem to be wealthy or have government jobs.

Why not simply enjoy your good fortune?

We’re angry because people keep telling us we’d be happier in the kitchen, with a nice husband and nice traditional role. People keep telling us that we’re in charge of the world, while we continue to suffer disrespect and abuse for the crime of existing in public. We’re angry that men keep talking over us and then saying we’re too angry when we get upset over it. We’re angry that there are tens of thousands of rape kits sitting in police stations, untested, because they can’t be bothered. We’re angry that those rapists are still out there raping, with 98% of them walking free. We’re angry that people say we’re wealthy and eating bonbons in luxury while we’re also paid less and have worse access to good paying jobs. We’re angry that peopel say we have the media – the media might have women in leading roles now, but those roles are straw-characters soaked in misogyny more often than not, and they’re almost always white, beautiful standards to which few mortal women can aspire. We’re mad that men get angry at us for ignoring them because they’re ugly, while those of us who don’t meet their fucking standards are the skapegoat of jokes at best and victims at worst.

I’ll say that I am happy that academia is on our side to some extent – the scientific and social evidence for the feminism is overwhelming, even if the public at large thinks it’s a dirty word. Academia is still steeped in sexism and racism of course, but at least the community is rational enough to accept the data and theories to some degree.

We’re angry for you, too – we’re angry for the very same thing you’re angry about. Angry at the expectation that men must have sex or be lesser. We’re angry about that because that fucking affects us too, jackass. Those men are pressured to have sex, who do you think has to endure the attention of those desperate men? We’re angry about it because men are human beings who don’t deserve that sort of mistreatment.

Everything you’ve said is infuriating and, deeply, baffling.

It baffles me that you can’t see this. You rail against how society enforces monogamy, all the while talking about how we need socially-enforced monogamy. You’re upset about society punishing virginity in men, while at the same time your suggestions socially punish virgin men. You claim that the presence of these angry men bothers you, but you argue in support of the very things that make them angry.

The only interpretation of your argument that makes any sense is for women to willingly give up their freedoms and give themselves to these angry men. The only palliative you provide is a vague suggestion that we’d be happier.

You’ve painted pictures over your windowpanes, and mistake the bright brush-strokes you’ve made of our yard for the beleaguered reality.

So yeah, I’m a bit angry about it. You see me with my pittance and ask why I can’t be happy with my good fortune. You see me not being harassed on the bus and ask why I’m not happy being the establishment.

I have a lot more to write on that, and maybe I will, but this has already gone on far longer than I wanted. In short – your perspective on the world is blind, your stated goals are at direct odds with the actions you suggest, and your evidence is so shoddy as to be absent.

Do reply where you like; where you think me strongest or where you think me weakest. I hope you bring a challenge.

– Scildfreja, Free From Anger

Virgin Mary
Virgin Mary
2 years ago

@london troll

How is feminism the problem? How is feminism hurting you?
I don’t want to hear about misandry or ‘cultural marxism’ or some conspiracy about gynocracy. I’m asking what harm it’s done to you as an individual.

London Pilgrim
London Pilgrim
2 years ago

@buttercup

Yes. Men and women are both people. You realise this is a very ‘feminist’ thing to ask, right?

Approval is approval. It really is no more complicated than that.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
2 years ago

We need to start valuing people as human beings independent of the number of notches on their bedposts.

Yeah! Down with this enforced monogamy bullshit, people should be able to live how they like! We need [checks notes] … enforced monogamy!

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

@Richard Ford

I am not sure why finding value in free speech makes me a ‘traditionalist. I wish free speech as the tradition throughout the world. In fact it is quite radical in many places.

Who said anything about freedom of speech? There isn’t a freedom of speech issue here.

Seriously, though. Why not make a case against what he says and in favour of something better?

Because after all the other JP garbage that we’ve had to slog through this one isn’t about a substantive response. We’ve simply no reason to take it seriously based on past experience and aren’t inclined to.

We have seen insults, threats and one woman who broke into his lecture hall with a garrotte, presumably with murder on her mind.

Which has nothing to do with this post or these comments here.

So far this looks like you’re characterizing mockery as a freedom of speech violation, telling people to take something seriously when they don’t have a reason to (seriously, the “girls” alone is sexist and insulting), and suggesting that mocking sexism leads to violence.

By all means expand on your assertions if you think I’m wrong. I’ve seen nothing to respect so far.

Just tell us where he is wrong.

No. We aren’t your trained monkeys. Your actual goal is to get us to stop using our freedom of speech to engage in mockery, and you are doing it by way of demanding we demonstrate something that you should be demonstrating if you actually cared about the issue at all. You came here. If you don’t like it you can go away.

Makroth - cowboy Jacobin from Hell
Makroth - cowboy Jacobin from Hell
2 years ago

@London Pilgrim

Why in the everloving fuck should women approve of those shrivelled-up ghouls who call themselves incels who want women to be raped and/or tortured and/or killed?

Also, could you please address some of comments that tell you in great detail exactly how wrong you are?

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
2 years ago

I’m also going to need a citation on the claim that once is are rejected by society. Has anyone ever actually studied them? Not that I know of. They are most certainly a very small segment of the population and all we have to go on is their own account of their lives on online communities. What we do is they claim to be ugly and then post pictures of themselves that reveal that they’re not conventionally unattractive at all. We also know that they make outlandish claims about how many partners women have and what those to our labia.

They’re not exactly reliable narrators.

London Pilgrim
London Pilgrim
2 years ago

@scildfreja

In some ways I empathise with the way you feel. I do not understand why women invest such colossal resources into forcing men to be shallow cartoonish versions of what they could be- and in the process limiting themselves.

In truth, controlling other people is a full time job. While manipulating others we manipulate our own nature to make us better manipulators. It never ends.

Men are simple beings (the only thing feminists get right) we want to be perceived as human beings. Not even as men (because this comes with a whole job description) but as a human being who has the same ability to feel as you do.

Instead we are expected to ‘prove’ ourselves by becoming this superman being who is actually not fully human. A sort of mighty robot, an Alpha.

Does this benefit women? I suppose it must but at what cost? Playing helpless, manipulation, calculation. I would hate it and I think some women hate it too.

Unfortunately we have feminism who declare war. This means more manipulation and control of men- and thus less freedom for women. She can never relax! The man must be controlled from morning till night! This is war!!

The result is not a sense of triumph at having won. It is a contempt at the man for being so shallow, so blind, so easily controlled.

So Beta.

So.. she feels lonely, because who can feel companionship with a broken thing? She feels angry at all me. For having let her down. So it continues.

London Pilgrim
London Pilgrim
2 years ago

@makroth

You should not approve of the shrivelled ghoul (nice term).

Approve of a kind man, a man of good intentions who does great things in the world and yet women just ‘do not see him that way’.

He may never become a ghoul

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
2 years ago

@London Pilgrim

Yes. Men and women are both people. You realise this is a very ‘feminist’ thing to ask, right?

I’m not asking to be glib or academic. I’m serious. Many incels speak of women as subhuman animals who need to be trained and herded and told what to do. They say things like “only men can love” and “only men have feelings”. To hear them talk, the default human is male, while women are some sort of partly-domesticated species of cattle. Just look at some of David’s recent posts here and you’ll see what I mean.

So here’s my next question: can a woman be incel? If not, why not? Women also experience rejection, loneliness, and virginity. What’s special about the romantic struggles of men that make them uniquely unendurable?

(I have to take a short break because the kids have a Hockey Thing, but carry on everyone!)

kupo
kupo
2 years ago

She feels angry at all me. For having let her down.

Broken clock and all that.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
2 years ago

Hm.

I’m reading what you’re writing, and I will reply, but I need to ask a question or so first. You’re saying that women invest colossal resources into manipulating men into being shallow, simple beings. Feminism, specifically, is especially guilty of this.

Can you provide some examples, or describe a mechanism of how we do this? You tried above, but WWTH pointed out that it was capitalism that was responsible for this. Can you give us a couple more? If it’s such a pervasive thing, I’m sure that isn’t too onerous a task.

Thank you in advance.

PS: I see you basically ignored everything I said above. I’d like you to address the point that you’re basically arguing for enforced monogamy while at the same time saying how it’s one of those terrible things that punishes men and constrains their behaviour. Your entire argument and the belief structure connected to it hinges on resolving this conflict, if you mean for your position to be a rational one.

Alaniel (aka LittleLurker)
Alaniel (aka LittleLurker)
2 years ago

I do not understand why women invest such colossal resources into forcing men to be shallow cartoonish versions of what they could be– and in the process limiting themselves.

We’re not the ones who keep bringing up the Alpha/Beta nonsense. You are.

Unfortunately we have feminism who declare war. This means more manipulation and control of men- and thus less freedom for women. She can never relax! The man must be controlled from morning till night! This is war!!

Nope. To be honest, the guys in my personal life are all as trustworthy as the women. I don’t control them and I don’t have to watch over my shoulder constantly. Why? Because they’re not like you and your mates. In fact, outside of the internet I’ve yet to meet someone who has these confused ideas of the world that I keep encountering on this blog. For the longest time I actually thought you guys were a bad joke, tbh. Had to learn from people who were a lot less lucky in their lives that you were sadly not.
Most guys I know consider you and opinions like yours and JP’s to be pretty embarrassing, actually. And that’s the kinder ones. My father for example would probably have some more…direct things to say about your “theories”.

@Scild
Was looking forward to a detailed troll-shredding and was not disappointed.

kupo
kupo
2 years ago

In fact, outside of the internet I’ve yet to meet someone who has these confused ideas of the world that I keep encountering on this blog.

They’re very good at hiding it which I learned during the November 2016 election and then again when Jessica Price was fired.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
2 years ago

wrote it for you my duck! <3

Violet the Vile, Moonbat Screech Junky
Violet the Vile, Moonbat Screech Junky
2 years ago

@London Pilgrim

You still haven’t answered my question.

Why choose to come here and argue these ideas with us in particular? When you know there’s no-one here who will feel anything other than slightly irritated?

Gaebolga
Gaebolga
2 years ago

Dammit! Mammoth ate my post!

I don’t have time to recreate it, so here’s the shorter version (which basically mirrors some of what Scildfreja wrote far more eloquently).

@London Pilgrim/Richard Ford

None of what you claim is true, and your definition of feminism is laughable – you can’t point to a single credible source that uses anything remotely like it.

You haven’t provided any evidence for any of your claims because you can’t, and the very fact that you can’t really ought to tell you something about the quality of them. But it won’t.

Evidence or piss off; nobody cares what you “think.”

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
2 years ago

Instead we are expected to ‘prove’ ourselves by becoming this superman being who is actually not fully human. A sort of mighty robot, an Alpha.

I have literally never met one single woman that expects men to be unfeeling alpha males. Not one. I suppose there must be a handful out there who do, but it’s by no means common to women. Especially not feminists.

Whether it’s for friendship or dating, I value men who are funny but in a sharp witted kind of way. Not an obnoxious and cruel kind of humor. I love animals, so I relate well to men who also love animals and are kind to them. I like men who are not racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic etc. Because I do not value hate. For sex or dating, I find men who are either skinny or slightly pudgy attractive. Not into the gym rat muscly look. Although body type is not that big of a deal. I love horror, sci-fi and fantasy movies, shows and books, so being into some of that is a plus. I don’t care about money very much at all. In fact, I wish we lived in a world less focused on money and career status.

Any of that sound like I expect men to be robot alphas?

Seriously. The pressure to be a big tough alpha male with no vulnerabilities at all comes from other men and it comes from the media that supports our uber capitalist culture. It does not remotely come from feminists. It doesn’t even come from women as whole.

Slick Mick
Slick Mick
2 years ago

I think that feminists oppress all men all day every day with their censorship , sexist shaming and other verbal abuse , sexual harassment of men, financial enslavement of men , promoting sexual harassment and sexual assault against men. I think neo- marxist misandrist hate-sites like wehuntedthemammoth, as well as other forms of feminist hate-propaganda promote these attitudes of misandry that hurt men every day. Feminism has a history of forcing monogomy onto men to prevent mgtow from catching on. I dream of a day when a man can publicly declare himself mgtow without feminists targeting him for abuse and harassment and when we are all free to speak our minds freely on the internet without cencorship attacks, sexual harassment, verbal abuse, and bullying from SJWs. I think feminists should not sexually harass mgtow men online anymore. Feminist abuse of men who identify as mgtow is an example of how feminists try to enforce monogomy onto men. Plus, feminists have tried to combat mgtowism with bachelor taxes, historically, in order to enforce marriage/monogamy/financial slavery onto men and stomp out mgtow/freedom for men. Facts, people, look them up.

Bakunin
Bakunin
2 years ago

@Slick Mick
Please, go. No one’s trying to stop you. In fact, instead of going your own way, you’re just here complaining. Why would someone who found their own way care so much?

What was it, a buy two, get the third free deal today?

Slick Mick
Slick Mick
2 years ago

@Bakunin
Please leave. No body is stopping you. You’re just complaining. Why would somebody who promotes “equality” care about other perspectives having a voice that they try to silence them?

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
2 years ago

Data point of one here, but I consider “man with no emotions” to be a huge red flag for someone I don’t want to be around. Most of those “alpha male” traits read to me as a warning sign for someone who’s domineering and controlling, and as someone I don’t want to be around. Give me people without pretention, please.

You have complained loudly in this thread about all of us putting words in your mouth; you’ve done nothing but put them in ours. We don’t want the things you claim we want, we aren’t doing the things you claim we’re doing. Here you are, doing it again. We want big emotionless robots, you say, whereas none of us want that.

Not that you’ll acknowledge this. Like everything else, it doesn’t fit your narrative, so it slides off.

kupo
kupo
2 years ago

Mick. How many years has it been? And you still need to come try and get some attention whenever we’re paying attention to other trolls?

Gaebolga
Gaebolga
2 years ago

Slick Mick wrote:

Some incredibly boring and predictable bullshit copied from some other boring, unoriginal troll.

Yawn.

Facts, people, look them up.

Funny. Why don’t you provide a link, if these facts of yours are so easy to find?

We’re not going to do your work for you, dumbass.

[Edited to add: at least LP/RF could write complete sentences most of the time, with reasonable punctuation. Boring troll is incompetent.]

Slick Mick
Slick Mick
2 years ago

Feminists constantly use shaming language to verbally abuse men for expressing their emotions. It’s very hurtful to men. “Male tearsa” anyone? Feminism is openly hostile and mocking to any expression of male emotion that isn’t rooted in benevolent sexism and white knighting and concern over women. Men are simply not allowed to have emotions in our society because feminists will attack them and verbally abuse them and because of female privilege, get away with it. That’s the terrordome of living in a gynocracy.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
2 years ago

Aww. MRAL is so territorial over this site, isn’t he?

Steph
Steph
2 years ago

@London Pilgrim

“The problem is- and always has been- feminism. The very word itself makes this obvious. Feminism holds that female perception and values are better than male perception and values.

What the hell these things are is not explained.

This outlook has infected all areas of the culture so that there is no escape from it. The logical conclusion is that the incel is worthless because the incel is perceived by women to be worthless.”

I am really bored of this troll now. He isn’t even trying to make sense.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
2 years ago

@Mick Dash,

You’re more eloquent than this usually! What’s wrong, my duck?

I see you have a lot of I think and I feel in that parade of bias, is there any one that stands out as being especially worthy to you? Otherwise I see a common theme of “Feminism enforces monogamy!”, which is ridiculous on its face – feminism does and has always encouraged breaking down the traditionally enforced marriage structures, because women are generally treated like possessions or second class people in those arrangements. You’re just mad that we’re not subservient little housewives anymore.

As for this, I got an excellent giggle:

feminists have tried to combat mgtowism with bachelor taxes, historically, in order to enforce marriage/monogamy/financial slavery onto men and stomp out mgtow/freedom for men

Ah yes, the feminists forcing marriage and monogamy through bachelor taxes! A well-known tactic of the great feminist uprising of… [checks notes] 1934.

I did a bit of reading on these bachelor taxes of the early century! Most were in the 1800’s – you know, the heyday of feminism and all that – and were introduced by those stalwarts of the matriarchy, er, upper-class-rich-white-men. Clearly they knew that women would obtain the vote 100 years later in the 19th amendment of the united states, and were attempting to curry favour with the supreme matriarchs.

Just curious though, can you point out any bachelor taxes that are from this century, and not 200 years ago?

You’re too much, Mick, really.

London Pilgrim
London Pilgrim
2 years ago

@scilfreja

Thank you for your very civil reply. You are quite right. I am not answering your questions properly.

The best way to describe what I am talking about is to ask you to look at an old couple who have been together for 20 years or more. Notice that the man follows behind the woman, reduces his height in her presence with a sort of cringe and can sometimes come to look like her. There is a science behind this. Testosterone declines when a man is in a relationship. It is natures way of keeping him at home and making his hyper agreeable. In older couples this is maintained simply by the odd disapproving look. The previous generation believed that men and women were a team so no great control is ever applied. This is often a living and mutually beneficial relationship but we should be clear who is in charge. The man says ‘yes dear’ a lot.

Older people grew up in the expectation of a marriage that would be run by women- but with compassion. A man was under his mother, who loved him until handed over to a wife who also managed him. She determined what he ate and when, how the home is furnished and so on.

To a great extent this is unavoidable and part of human nature and can work out well. The problem comes with feminism. In traditional societies both parties believe they are running the show and both are correct in their way. The man runs the external show the woman the internal one. Unfortunately feminism convinces the w9man she is in fact being dominated by men through patriarchy. Everything therefore becomes a war that must be won. This may be done in good ways or bad but the whole thing becomes deadly serious. If a man shows independence, or has friends or any independent influence upon his life this will be viewed through this lens and must be crushed.

We need to define what i mean by enforced monogamy. It does not involve allocating virgins ISIS style but it does mean ownership of decisions. A family cannot be razed in a chaotic or violent home. Drama can be exciting, affairs, conflict conspiracy! All are exciting but none build a stable society.

People should be proud of good choices and regret bad ones. If you talk to people who’s lives are a mess you may discover they knew their actions would lead to the current situation! People actually know when they are making a mistake!

A sense of shame is all that we need to have people behave decently. The state has taken to policing language and opinions. Our sense of decency should do this for us!

Gaebolga
Gaebolga
2 years ago

Oh, is that MRAL?

Double yawn.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
2 years ago

There is a science behind this.

Oh shit, London, are you seriously trying to science this at me?

I’ll get you a reply shortly, this is the sort of thing I’ll want to do after work, when I can focus. Short form, brains don’t work that way, but popular opinion likes to think they do. Wonder why.

Prepare for science, motherfuckers.

http://oi45.tinypic.com/250ia9t.jpg

Jesalin: Clit-o-centric Lesbian Goddess
Jesalin: Clit-o-centric Lesbian Goddess
2 years ago

Makes BIG batch of popcorn

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
2 years ago

@ London Pilgrim

look at an old couple who have been together for 20 years or more.

Do you have their address; I’ll check them out. I would agree with you that that is bizarre behaviour; but one sample doesn’t really prove anything.

Bakunin
Bakunin
2 years ago

@Mick
Go fuck yourself. This isn’t your space. You wanna go your own way so goddamn bad, do it.

But before you go, badge taxes. Let’s go find those facts, so you have something while your fucking off.

Ancient Rome. Not feminist. Next.
15th century Ottoman Empire. Not feminist.

Passed in 1695 in England, abolished 11 years later. Women couldn’t vote in England until 1918. Not feminist.

Missouri in 1821. Women couldn’t vote. Not feminist.
Michigan periodically tried from 1837-1935. Never passed. Also women couldn’t vote for the majority of that time. Not feminist.

New Jersey 1898. Proposed by male assemblyman Waller, not passed. Women couldn’t. Not feminist.

Montana 1921. Actually passed, but struck down less than a year later as unconstitutional. Women could vote, but feminism as a philosophy was still a few decades away. Maybe had women involved though.

California 1935. Proposed by male minister of finance Roland Vanderbilt. Failed to pass. Not proposed by feminists.

1919 South Africa. Passed by massive racists. White women still couldn’t vote for 11 years. Very racist, not feminist.

1923 Repelen, Germany. Passed and overturned by federal authorities. Women could vote, did not last a significant period.

Italy, 1927-1943. In other words, fascist Italy. Passed by massive racists, Mussolini himself praised the tax for that reason. Also very unfair, doubled the taxes owed by bachelor’s. Not feminist though. A mayor proposed bringing it back in 1999. The mayor was named Vincenzo Venditti. Not a woman.

Communist Poland. Wasn’t actually a bachelor tax, actually was a tax on all childless people over 21, later 25. Not feminist.

USSR. Again, not a bachelor tax, applied to men and women without children. Not feminist.

Communist Romania. Actually a celibacy tax, meant to improve birthrates. Also, Communist Romania was incredibly not feminist.

And there we go. Lots of totalitarian regimes, racists concerned with birthrates, places where women couldn’t vote, failed proposals, and two. TWO. Two fucking examples where women could vote and a bachelor tax passed. Both of which predated feminist theory, and both of which were quickly struck down.

FACTS, SHIT HEAD. GO. LOOK. THEM. UP!

Slick Mick
Slick Mick
2 years ago

Hopefully SJWs will join with the rest of the adult world and learn to conversate like grown ups and treat others as equals, learn some compassion and tolerance, without throwing a temper tantrum and resorting to verbal abuse as the crux of their “argument” to enforce their rigid authoritarian viewpoints and they can instead learn to use facts and logic in formulating their communications with others instead of intimidating others into aqueiscence with their verbal abuse… perhaps if sjws weren’t so xenophobic toward the perceived “other” they might learn from other perspectives …beyond their authoritarian ideological dogma and elitist insular privileged perspectives…

https://www.mgtow.com/forums/topic/feminists-are-winning-in-spain-happy-about-it-all-hail-the-matriarchy/page/2/