By David Futrelle
Well, this little joke went over well on Twitter so I thought I’d post it here too.
Here’s one that didn’t go over quite as well. But it might just come to haunt your dreams.
I saw this so now you have to see it too pic.twitter.com/mSHcWXj6ou
— David Futrelle (@DavidFutrelle) August 15, 2018
Some good-ass tweets by people who aren’t me:
https://twitter.com/maddc8/status/1029184821329833986
https://twitter.com/BoringEnormous/status/1028321380213907458
Somebody waited their whole life to write this serial number pic.twitter.com/WxnKJwVbHw
— WendigoPBFox (@tmaxxnc) August 14, 2018
Accidentally shitting yourself vs. Defiantly shitting yourself to own the libs. pic.twitter.com/HIGCYuP1dJ
— Sir Woofingtons (@Sir_Woofingtons) August 15, 2018
I think you could have left off the last 3 words & been equally as accurate about the beliefs of most incels.
@mildlymagnificent,
https://youtu.be/BKSkBsnfkFA
Sorry about the double/grammatically wrong image post from a few pages ago. I don’t know why it posted my first one 10 hours later. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
So is London Pilgrim a liar? They claimed people are trying to prevent other people from reading Peterson, and when I challenged them to back this accusation up there was no response at all.
I think London Pilgrim is a liar. It would be easy to quote something like that, if they could. But they don’t.
They have the ability to throw up lots of text that is not directly tied to anything or anyone, notice that they never quote anyone, or cite anything. 15 pages of text in the document where I’ve copied and pasted all of their comments to have fun with. But they won’t toss up any text at all to answer the simple question about who is preventing people from reading Peterson from me, and many other requests that they show where they saw something.
So they don’t have the guts to back their shit up once they’ve spewed it up on the screen. They won’t quote because they can’t.
I’m going through all their comments and I’m going to pull out the assertions about reality. I’m going to do that because It will be a list of things that London Pilgrim simply feels things about, but are also things that London Pilgrim doesn’t have the guts to back up. To me they will be likely lies. If there are any interesting patterns in there I’ll post them. But so far I find them a seriously sickening person willing to talk shit about people with no sense of personal responsibility to stand for what they say. If I knew them personally I would shame and shun them.
There’s another simple word for this behavior. Gossip. London Pilgrim is a Gossip.
What does everyone think? Is a resistance to quoting assertions about people a common pattern in some of these trolls? They do seem to love their blanket disparagement without personal responsibility.
@London Pilgrim you replied this: (quoted in a few places throughout this reply)
To my comment here.
Okay, let’s just back this up a step. All of what I’m writing here is going to assume a ‘traditional’ view of women and men. They are married, because that is also traditional. They have 2,5 children, a picket fence, a bungalow, and a nice car. Husband works his job, woman is a stay-at-home-mom.
Now, I want you to think about the qualities you value in traditional Women and Men. Women, who take care of the ‘inside’ (home and usually the emotional wellbeing of those in the household) and Men, who take care of the ‘outside’ (work, making money, providing for a family).
Of the two options, ‘inside’ and ‘outside’, which one do you think has more time spent on teaching the child to be ‘helpful and agreeable’?
I’ll wait a moment….
Girls. Young women are taught to be helpful and agreeable, to aid them in managing the ‘inside’ spheres they will be responsible for in the future. They need to make sure that the children are happy, and that their husband is content in his life. They need to ensure that the grocery shopping is done, that food is prepared on time.
What do boys learn? Not that. Emotional labour is something that is not prioritised in a traditional masculine upbringing. This is incredibly unfortunate, because this helps to contribute to happier relationships.
(All, not just romantic. Friendships and familial relationships need emotional labour as well. Call your parents. And then text that one friend who you have been meaning to a cute baby animal gif, they’ll like that you thought of them and shared it.)
Being able to understand and take part in the emotional labour of a relationship means that a man can actually hold their own end up.
What is emotional labour? Here’s a comic about a woman needing to be a manager to her husband, “Just ask and I’ll help!” style.
Here is an annotated pdf of a huge metafilter thread on Emotional Labour. It was incredibly eye opening for me, both in what I performed and what I expected to be performed for me.
Reading through that thread, how many of the behaviours are (in a traditional upbringing and worldview) gendered as female?
All of them? Spoilers: it’s all of them.
THIS is why boys benefited from the Princesses they watched. Because they were being shown that ‘being helpful and agreeable’ were things that they could do, qualities they could possess.
Girls already know that. All girls media is focused on being a friend. I swear to everything I hold dear, all girls media is focused on that. Even the good stuff (Ponies, I’m looking at you!) still has strong themes of friendship. It isn’t *wrong*, it’s just… There. Always. *sigh*
The point the study was making, that you seem to have missed, is that these things *are not a focus* in socialising boys. Girls *already* do this, they aren’t being ‘served by the boys’, they are serving the boys. That is traditional gender roles. Which you have previously advocated for.
What? Helping others… Like, the little boys in this study helping other kids, unlike the little girls, who rely on the little boys to help them? Am I parsing that right?
Because that is exactly not what is happening.
Sometimes you help, sometimes others help you. The *point* is that both binary genders (as well as all that aren’t binary, but we’re dealing with a traditional mindset here. I just wanted to acknowledge that I was being very binary.) have the capacity to do *both actions*.
Why are little boys pushed towards aggression, while little girls are pushed towards home making and friendliness?
Here’s an article talking about how early gender programming starts.
Here’s another article on gendered clothing for young children, and a relevant quote.
This just isn’t fair. Everyone should be able to enjoy a full range of emotions, from nurturing to aggression. But, traditionally, we can’t. Each person has their place, ‘inside’ or ‘outside’, and there are emotions that are both prescribed and proscribed in those stations.
A social safety net is important. I am lucky that I come from a place that has one, I don’t have to worry about being bankrupt and homeless if I get sick. But that is a different argument, and not one that I am going to be drawn into right now, with your gish galloping.
Looking forward to your reply to Scildfreja, as well as your concrete examples of leftists saying that men must marry. I did notice the goal post shifting you allowed yourself, in that now it is the entirety of the left and not just on this specific site. Guess you couldn’t find any examples, eh?
I hope you read these. I hope you look at my links, and google around a bit using similar search terms for yourself. But mostly, I hope some lurkers enjoyed this overly long reply to something that was only a couple of paragraphs, haha.
I should get to bed. U____U
@Rhuu
Thank you. I will read the links later I promise.
My point was simply that the male role in relationships was to give and the female to receive- and giving is the better deal.
Men support women, take them to places and give orgasms as best we can. This, to a man, seems very much like paradise to the woman and yet women are not happy. There is always a richer man, or a date that goes wrong. Women’s magazines encourage women to count and measure the orgasms they receive rather than experience them… and therefore what seems like heaven to men becomes a hell to women.
Has it occurred to you that this ‘list’ of emotional labour was never wanted by men in the first place? Personally I experience it as manipulation though I am sure much of it is well meant. I would still far rather women did not do it. Maybe women like it done to them? If so this would be a solution.
Maybe we should just value women as women and men as men rather than forcing them into roles that make them unhappy?
I think of a man as a stripped down version of a woman. Basically he was built to get things done. He has the basic set of emotions but not the endless complexity that women seem to have. His chief need is to be busy and to get things done. Give him a hole to dig and he is happy!
If I am right.. and I have been reminded of my biases.. then this is good news for both men and women. Women can continue to be served and men can continue to be busy. Men enjoy pleasing women so why not let them do it? Sometimes we will buy the wrong thing or take you to the wrong places. These things happen. It does not mean we do not love you.
And.. don’t do any of this ‘emotional labour’. Most of us would rather you did not. Just be happy. This is all we really require from you.
Oh really? Because earlier in the thread you were outraged that we weren’t holding your hand through polite debate. Not just us specifically. Feminists in general.
In other words, we were refusing to fulfill our gender role and do the emotional labor of gently defending feminism in a way that doesn’t sting any manfeels.
Do you truly not realize that the reputation feminists have for man hating is mostly due to the fact that most of us aren’t willing to act as a mommy to misogynistic men?
Thanks for giving us permission to not soothe your fee-fees while we disagree with your claims that women don’t really want or need rights anyway. Noted.
@WWTH
Yes. They were so unhappy with all that anger. So weak and incapable of picking out the substance of what people are saying with anger alongside it.
And London Pilgrim is still weak even as you all do the labor of linking, quoting and explaining instead of asserting like a lazy child as they did when they described feminists as wanting something like Nero’s Rome as an example.
They are blind to the labor women have been pressured to perform, even as they are incompetent at supporting anything they believe.
@treehugger
You may be misremembering but you are half right. It is better to admit when someone has made a valid point than to call them a goat raper for example.
This sort of thing does not help the truth.
@Rhuu
I found the HuffPost peice about the tragic boy upsetting. A boy decided he liked pink and was dressed as a girl and paraded around by the mother as an ideological freak show.
If an adult man decides he wishes to become a transvestite he may do so- but a young child should not have such things forced upon them. It is abuse and she should lose the child if she is not prepared to stop.
@Rhuu
The theme that unites the links seems to be question of individual rights. The pink boy was paraded around as a political statement because in the final analysis he has no rights. He is an example of a group that has to be brought into line with a restrictive feminist view of what boys should be.
Ultimately it is not even a hate crime because the boy as an individual is invisible and therefore not hated as such. It is just that the boy is the symbol of men in general and men must always be controlled and managed.
Ffs, this has long passed the point of being entertaining. Imho, LP should be set the task of answering in his next comment a list of questions he’s been avoiding. He should have to do so in a direct, honest way, with no prevarication, goalpost-shifting or other tricks. For his assertions, he should have to supply verifiable evidence.
If he doesn’t do this, it’s time for the ban hammer.
Men support women, take them to places and give orgasms as best we can. This, to a man, seems very much like paradise to the woman and yet women are not happy. There is always a richer man, or a date that goes wrong. Women’s magazines encourage women to count and measure the orgasms they receive rather than experience them… and therefore what seems like heaven to men becomes a hell to women.
1. What women’s magazine is this, Otto?
2. No one I know has ever left a guy for a ‘richer man’.
3. I don’t even want to know what ‘a date that goes wrong’ means.
If I am right.. and I have been reminded of my biases.. then this is good news for both men and women. Women can continue to be served and men can continue to be busy. Men enjoy pleasing women so why not let them do it? Sometimes we will buy the wrong thing or take you to the wrong places. These things happen. It does not mean we do not love you.
Well, my husband does sometimes get the wrong brand of cream cheese, but I’ve never held it against him. Not so much trouble with wrong places now that we have smartphones.
Look, the pathetic cry for men to be allowed to be men, just simple men, trying to please their giddy demanding wives as best they can, is not fooling anyone here.
I’m a feminist. I’m married. My friends are feminists. Many of them are married. In real life, we are not locked in endless battle with our spouses, crying because they got us the wrong slipcovers, and wishing they looked a bit more like Robert Redford. We chose these men, we married them, we’re partners with them in life. Some of us have a traditional division of labor in our marriages, some don’t. But soothingly invoking this mid-century vision in which women could have such lovely lives if only they weren’t being lied to by a version of feminism that seems to involve Andrea Dworkin heading Cosmopolitan Magazine is simply not gonna make it.
Get real. Please. Life wasn’t simple in 1960, or 1860, or at any time prior to that, but women’s lives are better when we can choose what to do with our own lives.
End of the damn story.
@Rhuu
I read the Emotional Labour pdf. By god! There is a reason they call it labour!
It is a story of a woman who always involved herself with other people’s buiness without them asking. Her intentions were good but she became angry and tired. Then she stopped- and nobody noticed the ‘labour’ she was not doing.
Her solution seems to be that men should do more of what made her unhappy. Why? I think I would rather follow her example which seems to be working for her.
I have saved it for later because I am a connosur of crazy.
Has @London got the ban hammer yet?
@podckayne
1. A date going wrong is where a women taken to a place she has already been or does not like that much.
2. Women leave men for richer men all the time. They just explain it differently. ‘He was a loser’ ext ext. next time you hear this you know what it means.
3. It is all magazines aimed at younger women.
Good for you for not crying if your husband gets the wrong cream cheese- but would you be prepared to let him choose his Own Favourite brand of cheese. Now that Really Would be radical
Seriously – as a day later he is still trolling with his strawmen and refusal to supply evidence for his statements I vote ban.
I agree with @Steph. Troll is Gish Galloping all over the place, ignoring every inconvenient question, and some people are dancing to his tune by actually engaging with his non sequiturs rather than insisting he answer the questions he’s already been asked.
Why is he being rewarded for deliberately disrespecting everyone here?
[Post removed because I realized that I misread Robert Ford/London Pilgrim’s post. In that particular case, he wasn’t raping any goats, which is certainly a change that needs to be encouraged.]
JFC, dude. Emotional labor is literally the social glue that makes a relationship, or a household, function. It’s anticipating and planning and allocating resources wisely. It’s sending birthday cards and nurturing friendships and taking care of sick people and making appointments and showing up at parent teacher conferences and budgeting meals and buying light bulbs and taking care of a thousand other little details. You want to blow all that off because it’s too complicated and go dig a hole, well, somebody’s still got to decide where and why and when and how deep and which shovel to use.
Furthermore, women aren’t doing this emotional labor just for you. They’re doing it for themselves too. If women quit doing it, not only do they incur social isolation and disapproval, they too have to live with the disorganized chaos that comes from nobody making doctor’s appointments and the toilet paper never getting replaced and dirty dishes festering in the sink. The kids suffer too, with no one taking them to birthday parties and making sure they do their homework and put on sunscreen. Men see this stuff as optional, because they don’t want to do it. Guess what? Women don’t enjoy doing it either. But somebody has to do it. Like Jordan Peterson says: clean your room. (It’s pathetic that this is considered ground breaking advice in 2018, but there we are.)
My advice to you is don’t get married. Enjoy your solitude and the freedom that comes from not giving a shit about anybody but yourself. But then don’t complain about your grey socks and wrinkled shirts, and the intimacy and rich friendships that failed to materialize to sustain you in your old age while you were off being a simple Diggy Diggy Hole guy.
You’ve also just lost the argument about enforced monogamy. You’ve admitted women are much happier not having to do all the work that would be expected of her in a traditional marriage, and that men are largely unappreciative of it. You don’t have a compelling reason for traditional marriage, other than some vague gut opinion that women need to be under a man’s control. But you can’t even back up that opinion with logic.
What is it with troll’s magazine obsession? Is he commenting from the 1980’s? Young women mostly don’t even read magazines anymore. This is why Instagram models are more famous and culturally relevant than the traditional runway and print model.
You’re not right. Being reminded of your biases is not enough to defeat them. That’s trying to use willpower to defeat them. Which just makes it worse.
Men and women have the exact same brain structures and signals with regards to emotion. They have the exact same basis for emotions as women.
Men are different emotionally, though. hey are taught from a very young age that what you’re saying is true – that they don’t have emotions, that women are complicated and over-emotional, that they themselves are emotionally simple. This doesn’t mean that they don’t have those emotions, just that their emotions are suppressed.
So, yes. You’ve been manipulated and lied to for your entire life. Not by women – by society itself. You’ve been told that you don’t have emotions, that your emotions are simple and worthy of little. That women are fickle and complex and manipulative. Hysterical is the traditional word, in reference to the uterus.
The things you take as simple biological truths about the differences between men and women are Victorian rationalizations built on far more ancient bigotries. Given your romance with the dream of scientific empire, there’s little surprise.
I could crack apart the rest of your statements there, but this is a poor dialectic. shouting from your ships off the coastline like that, we can scarcely hear you.
@Scidfreja – I think Thetis wrapped him in plastic and put him inside a diving bell before dipping him in the Styx.
@london
You sound like a child who has never dated longer than a few weeks. Maybe thats bc you fucking suck as a human.
I dont care if im insulting you. The comments you shat out has been insulting to men and women.
@everyone
The transphobic comments should be an immediate ban. Richard ford a la “transvestite freak show” comments.
I want to give him the boot for that transphobic snarl, too, but I also know he’s trying for the ban, because he knows he has nothing. Being banned is the graceful way out for him. Instead of having to come face-to-face with his own cowardice, he gets to swagger out of the conversation with “they banned me, they can’t face the truth.”
Not that I’m saying we shouldn’t give him what he wants, but it makes me grumble, I guess. GRUMBLE GROMBLE