Categories
emotional abuse empathy deficit entitled babies evil fat fatties men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny PUA red pill reddit

Red Piller: Fellas! It’s your sacred duty “to make fat women ashamed of themselves again”

Some of the evil pro-fat-lady propaganda filling contemporary media if by contemporary you mean maybe 75 years ago

By David Futrelle

It’s tough to be a man in the year of our lord 2018. It’s legal for women to say no to sex, even if you’re married to them. Many women have jobs, and if you politely ask them, say, if the carpet matches the drapes they complain to HR instead of answering your simple query.

Men only hold 95% of the CEO jobs in Fortune 500 companies, and only 80% of those in the congress and Senate are men — and most of the women who’ve taken men’s jobs in politics and the business world are post-wall hags anyway. Even video games have female characters in them now —  and not all of them are skinny hotties with massive gravity-resistant bazongas that bounce up and down when they move.

Even worse, when you leave the house, roughly HALF of all those you’re likely to encounter are female. Even worser than worse, many of these women are FAT.

I recently ran across one brave soul in the Red Pill subreddit who is standing up against this final injustice, the worst of them all. In a post titled “Women are getting fatter because no one calls them out on it,” this internet hero launched a scathing attack on the women ruining his life by being fat in his immediate vicinity.

I recently spent 5 days in New Orleans. … I’m well aware of America’s current obesity crisis, but I was still shocked at how many fat women I saw. They were everywhere, and I can confidently say that they outnumbered fat men. 

Actually, the percentage of American women classified as obese (40%) isn’t that much greater than the percentage of men (35%), but, who knows, maybe New Orleans generates some sort of fat-lady-attracting magnetic field.

I saw countless couples where the woman was fatter than the man. It was practically the norm.

A skinny woman with a fat guy? Good for him. A skinny man with a fat women? HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION. WAR CRIME.

At every restaurant I would see 5’5” women putting away just as much food as their 6’ boyfriend/husband. At every bar I would see these seemingly genderless, shrieking blobs guzzling sugary cocktails. On every block I would see overweight bachelorette parties stumbling down the street wearing revealing clothes … .

Woah. I just got chills. It;s just like that famous monologue from Rutger Hauer in Blade Runner, if everything he had mentioned in it had been fat. I wonder what that might have sounded like.

I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe. Fatties eating hot wings off the shoulder of Orion. I watched hamplanets glitter in the dark near the TGIFridays. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in a carton of ice cream. Time to diet.

But back to our internet hero and his rant.

Based on my observations, I can conclude that the main problem is there is no taboo against being a fat chick in America anymore.

It’s true. These days fat women never face any sort of criticism for their weight. Sure, the pressure to be thin leads countless teenage girls to develop eating disorders. Sure, when a woman turns down a sexual advance from a man, the spurned would-be lover might loudly inform her she’s just a “fat bitch” anyway. And sure, when fat women post selfies on social media, they might get hundreds of replies from angry dudes accusing them of being ugly fatties who are “glorifying obesity” by existing in public.

But that’s all in good fun! No harm, no foul!

I think a lot of men just accept it now- after all, society is constantly telling us that men and women are exactly the same. Women can (and should) eat just as much food as men, and to say otherwise is offensive and old-fashioned.

Yes, that’s right. The relentless message we get from the media and society in general is that men and women are exactly the same and should eat exactly the same things. Those stock photos of women laughing alone with salad? All in your head (well, except for these).

Nowadays, it’s very common to hear guys say shit like, “I hate when women only order salad at dinner” and then be applauded for saying it. I think that’s nonsense- when ordering just a salad, she’s trying to signal to you that she has self control and is unlikely to get fat later in the relationship. This is a good thing, and should be encouraged.

Also, she should force herself to hold in her farts every minute she is with you, because that means she’s trying to signal to you that WOMEN DON’T POOP.

Women tend to be gullible, so they easily buy into media messages telling them that “all women are beautiful.” If one of their friends gains weight, they will reassure her and tell her she still looks hot. In fact, I bet most fat chicks nowadays can go their whole lives without anyone saying, “You are fat, and this is not okay” to their face.

Dude, I think you may have used a wrong word here. When you said “go their whole lives” did you mean “go a whole hour,” because otherwise I’m pretty sure you’re making a sucker bet.

If you appreciate female beauty and femininity, it is up to you to help make fat women be ashamed of themselves again.

There’s nothing healthier than tearing down someone else’s self-esteem because for some reason you assume how they look is any of your business.

Don’t think of it as being mean- think of it as tough love.

If by “love” you mean “hate.”

The only negative reinforcement that most women respond to is the threat of social ostracization.

Well, that is sort of a classic move. There’s just one flaw in your plan, dude, which is that most women wouldn’t actually be terribly hurt if you left them alone and went off by yourself forever.

If there is a fat chick in your social circle, pay as little attention to her as possible. If a fat woman tries to give you a hug, you should recoil a bit and make a “yeesh” face. You should talk about how disgusting fat people are when they are within earshot (thin women may pretend to be offended by this, but trust me it’s mostly an act). If you bump into a woman you haven’t seen since college and she’s gained weight, pretend to not recognize her at first. If a drunk fat woman tries to hit on you, tell her sorry but you aren’t attracted to big women.

Yes, spend your whole life actively trying to make other people feel bad about themselves for how they look. Nothing weird or creepy or fucking pathological about this.

If a fat woman in your office is talking to you, make a point to glance at her stomach every few seconds … .

If you get called in by HR for creating a hostile work environment just because you are in fact trying to create a hostile work environment, well, I’m sure Fox News and Breitbart and Jordan Peterson would be happy to take up your cause.

Let me just skip the part where he gloats about how cool it is to “make some fat chicks cry themselves to sleep at night” and brags about saving an alcoholic friend of his by being a dick to him.

I’m typing this on my phone, so I’m going to end my rant now. If you have any other fat shaming suggestions, please share them. And if you’re a fat guy reading this, I hope I hurt your feelings. Stop being so fat, you fucking fat fuck.

As it turns out, I am a fat guy reading this. You didn’t hurt my feelings. You just made yourself look like an insecure asshole who tries to distract himself from his insecurities by attacking other people for things that aren’t any of your fucking business. Shut your fucking face, you fucking fuck.

Subscribe
Notify of
guest

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

118 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Clever name here
Clever name here
2 years ago

I’ve been large and I’ve been small, and am currently small. It is amazing to me how much differently (some) people treat me at this size. This was especially annoying when I was dating, and more than one guy would trot out how happy he was that I was thin, because . Automatic end to a date and any potential relationship; if he wouldn’t have been interested in me as a big woman, then was off for me.

My job at least, has always been a safe place, no matter my size. People there accept that I am competent regardless of how I look, and I am extraordinarily grateful for that.

ellesar
ellesar
2 years ago

I am old enough and secure enough to not give a solitary shit about others problems with my appearance. I am stroppy and uninhibited enough to loudly tell them how rude/ weird they are being.

But the last time I got insulted for being obese (and yes he used that word) I just gave him a big smile and said ‘you are a very nice man’. He was probably about half my weight and I did consider saying ‘you know I could body slam you to the pavement SO easily’ (my thoughts went there because I am very strong and that is one thing I appreciate about my size), but I really was so not insulted because I AM obese.

I have never really understood the need for strangers or slight acquaintances to comment negatively on others. There are lots of things I could criticise about others, but I consider it NONE of my business!

Crip Dyke
Crip Dyke
2 years ago

The only negative reinforcement that most women respond to is the threat of social ostracization.

This guy not only knows nothing about fat, he doesn’t even know anything about Skinner!

Wetherby
Wetherby
2 years ago

Ah, so we’re shaming people for their hair follicles and their drinking habits instead of their weight. Charming.

Is there any need for this aggression? Or this pointlessly forensic cross-examination of a completely throwaway anecdote that not only wasn’t even mine in the first place but which also had nothing to do with “shaming people”?

Or rather, you could just as easily argue that if the anecdote had a shaming purpose at all, it was to shame its original author, since failing to recognise your own former husband is quite an impressive feat of memory mismanagement (albeit one that she seems cheerfully relaxed about).

kupo
kupo
2 years ago

Is there any need for this aggression? Or this pointlessly forensic cross-examination of a completely throwaway anecdote that not only wasn’t even mine in the first place but which also had nothing to do with “shaming people”?

There is indeed a need when you come sauntering into a discussion about fat shaming, toss out an anecdote about someone no longer being able to recognize someone because they were changed in “unflattering” ways. Do I really need to spell out to you why ridiculing someone for their appearance is frowned upon in progressive circles?

Hambeast
Hambeast
2 years ago

I was in the USAF for eight years and was hounded about my weight from the time I was in basic training until the day I was told about my discharge. I wasn’t fat, but my weight didn’t conform to the 1943 metlife height/weight chart they admitted they used.

Thanks to being prescribed diuretics* I started abusing them for weight loss. I did this until I got dysentery while in Turkey and was a lot sicker than I needed to be due to starting out dehydrated. The med tech who had to put me on an IV figured it out and quietly informed me that my standing refills for the diuretic would be rescinded but he wouldn’t refer me for the abuse or put it in my records if I quit. That was a reality check I paid attention to even though I knew it meant I’d gain weight and be separated for that.

The discharge happened only a few months later. At that point, it was a matter of an honorable discharge (for just being “fat”) rather than a general discharge (for drug abuse.)

Never. Again.

*During a casual conversation with a coworker and the base Flight Surgeon, whose patient I wasn’t.

Kimstu
Kimstu
2 years ago

I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe. Fatties eating hot wings off the shoulder of Orion. I watched hamplanets glitter in the dark near the TGIFridays. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in a carton of ice cream. Time to diet.

I was momentarily stunned at what I thought was the redpiller’s completely unexpected lapse into lyricism here. The mighty figure of the heavenly waiter Orion bearing a tray on his shoulder from which majestic celestial fatty goddesses pluck hot wings. The eerie glitter of the star-kindling hampla-nets (which I assumed to be something like a giant space version of manta rays, only more reticulated) soaring silently across the galaxy.

Then I realized that this paragraph is actually David’s parody of the Blade Runner monologue, and that the word in question is “ham-planets”.

Too late, though. The hampla-nets now exist, regal creatures of pure energy rippling on their great interstellar migrations in spiderweb waves of black shot through with sparkling pulses of aurora color. Someone please send photographs. And hot wings.

bekabot
bekabot
2 years ago

I’ve seen things you people wouldn’t believe. Fatties eating hot wings off the shoulder of Orion. I watched hamplanets glitter in the dark near the TGIFridays. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in a carton of ice cream. Time to diet.

Hey, it was a conversation between bros. What do you expect?

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Ham planet is a real insult that I’ve seen manurespherians use before. Unfortunately for them, it’s not terribly effective. It almost sounds kind of cool and sci-fi.

Passagère clandestine
Passagère clandestine
2 years ago

I can’t, because I wasn’t there. And since I have no idea what he looked like twenty years earlier, for all I know he’d become alarmingly thin instead, although I don’t actually think she mentioned his body shape at all. I believe substantial hair loss was a factor, and there were other clear signs that he was still fond of the odd tipple or several (the major reason why they divorced, I understand), but that’s all that I recall.

Incidentally, if you think for one millisecond that I’m in any way prejudiced about people’s size, I’m very happily married to someone that Alexander McCall Smith would describe as “traditionally built”, she’s been that shape for as long as I’ve known her, and I have never once suggested that she change it.

Don’t worry. I’ve been yelled at by the same person who decided to misunderstand a post. She’s the one with issues.

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
2 years ago

About people’s appearance changing from gain weight/lost hair/alcoholism I also felt uncomfortable about this. firstly about weight gain – I understand about karma, that someone who fat shames then gains wait and maybe they will learn to understand the experience of a fat person in this world and then they will regret their ignorance. However I feel a little bit like this means to be fat is a punishment – which seems like fat shaming. And additionally, to change of appearance to be “not handsome” because of baldness and alcoholism, again I also felt uncomfortable to read it. It is only a punishment to be ugly because society is ugly and hurts people who are not “handsome”, because appearance is worth so much. I believe strongly that there must be justice for people who done wrong, and they must learn and understand what they done and why it is harmful. But change of appearance to something which is not “handsome” is not acceptable to veiw like justice.

To be clear, appearance should be nothing about how someone is inside but sadly society will punish people who are not what society says is “handsome”. it is typical that society veiws “ugly” = someone without virtue and “handsome” = someone with virtue. I think that is important that we try to fight this stereotype, and make effort not to join appearance with virtue or with punishment.

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
2 years ago

Don’t worry. I’ve been yelled at by the same person who decided to misunderstand a post. She’s the one with issues.

seriously? Kupo (why you write your comment like subtweet), does not have issues and saying such things seems to me like violation of the comment policy, because of what “issues” imply. Secondly, differently interpretation is not “decided to misunderstand”. If someone is hurt by your words, even if you don’t mean to hurt, they don’t decide to do this just so they can “yell”, they are telling you that something is not okay. And finally, about yelling, this is tone policing, and also not okay. If someone says that what you said hurt them or can be harmful, first thing is to consider what they said and listen. It is hard to do, and I know I also struggle with this sometimes if I think there is no problem, but to behave defensive and say that someone yells and have “issues” is not the best response at all.

Passagère clandestine
Passagère clandestine
2 years ago

seriously? Kupo (why you write your comment like subtweet), does not have issues and saying such things seems to me like violation of the comment policy, because of what “issues” imply. Secondly, differently interpretation is not “decided to misunderstand”. If someone is hurt by your words, even if you don’t mean to hurt, they don’t decide to do this just so they can “yell”, they are telling you that something is not okay. And finally, about yelling, this is tone policing, and also not okay. If someone says that what you said hurt them or can be harmful, first thing is to consider what they said and listen. It is hard to do, and I know I also struggle with this sometimes if I think there is no problem, but to behave defensive and say that someone yells and have “issues” is not the best response at all.

Sock puppet much?

Diptych
Diptych
2 years ago

Valentin’s been a regular poster for some time – I doubt he’s a sock puppet of any kind.

Shadowplay
2 years ago

Valya’s no puppet – sock or otherwise.

Passagère clandestine
Passagère clandestine
2 years ago

Valentin’s been a regular poster for some time – I doubt he’s a sock puppet of any kind.

and we so much believe you.

Tashilicious
Tashilicious
2 years ago

Holy shit, Pass, are you like… Serious right now? Get called out rightly for a shitty comment weeks ago, then start lashing out at a massive sockpupper conspiracy here?

Get fucked and come back when you’re not busy nailing yourself to a cross like some poor put upon bullied misunderstood martyr. Which you are not. And which we can clearly see through.

Tashilicious
Tashilicious
2 years ago

Holy shit, Pass, you get rightfully called out on a shitty comment weeks ago and now everyone is a sockpuppet out to get you?

How about you fuck off and come back when you’re not busy trying to act like a poor bullied martyr being nailed to a cross. We can see through it.

Tashilicious
Tashilicious
2 years ago

fucking… Mammoth eating comments then posting both at the same time

DAVE FIX YOUR SITE >:u

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
2 years ago

@Passagère clandestine: Um, chiming in to say that Valentine is definitely not the same person as kupo?

@Wetherby, I was also uncomfortable about the related anecdotes. It’s the accidentally stepping someone’s foot situation here, I think. No harm was meant, but harm was done. Probably the best course of action is to listen, apologise, and move on.

I don’t think you meant to *be* hurtful, Wetherby. I think you told what you thought of as a funny anecdote that was related to the topic at hand, and included a fatshaming dude getting his comeuppance. The way it was phrased led me to also believe that he had put on weight, since that was the topic of this post.

It’s really important in text based conversations to make sure to convey the meaning we want. Sarcasm can use the /s tag, or just say “that was so sarcastic.” If we’re posting imitating someone, that could be put in blockquotes or italics, perhaps. Or, since that can be difficult sometimes (I know I miss the buttons if my javascript isn’t turned on), just saying “in the voice of X”.

It sucks to tell a funny story and have it fall flat, or have someone say “umm, did you think about this?” We’ve all had it happen, I’ve got one in particular that I cringe when I think about me telling it. But someone took time out of their day to let you know that something wasn’t quite coming across how you thought it was, and that’s basically a gift of time and energy.

What you do with that is up to you, really.

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
2 years ago

Sock puppet much?

I’m not a sock, but a whole human)) I’m just supporting kupo because i feel you attacked her unfairly.

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
2 years ago

ARGH too late to edit, this is why I copy and paste usually!!!!

… Or I blame autocorrect…
comment image

mmm… yes…. XD

I meant ‘Valentin’.

Mistyful
Mistyful
2 years ago

*pokes head in*

Valentin is one of many amazing people here, with a long and detailed history of commenting, as is Kupo. Accusing either one of them of sock-puppetry is laughable.

I, on the other hand, am not amazing, but I’m still not a sock puppet.

Catalpa
Catalpa
2 years ago

Ah, yes, Valentin and Kupo, two regular and long-time posters on WHTM, who both have consistent and extremely different backgrounds, identities and writing style are secretly the same person. This devious mastermind, who has been maintaining these two separate accounts for years, does this so that they can, on occasion, back themselves up. They need to do this because their opinions are super different from the rest of the commentariat and they never bring up points that are fully supported by the comments policy and also held by a large number of other commenters. Ingenious! /sarcasm

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

What is happening in this thread?

comment image?itemid=6142651

Bakunin
Bakunin
2 years ago

Popcorn time is what’s happening. Where’s the Anita .gif?

kupo
kupo
2 years ago

I was going to not comment because I didn’t feel like it would help anything. But now I feel like I should.

For the record, I am not even capable of coming up with interesting enough characters to spend any time putting to paper the fantasy novels I write in my head to fall asleep. Like, I’m making this shit up to entertain myself and even I’m like, “yeah, this character is just like that other character I came up with last year.” So I definitely couldn’t invent a whole second person. Anyway, I’m not Valya. I’m also not Diptych or anyone else who chimed in.

@Passagère clandestine
We had a miscommunication. That’s all. It was dropped immediately. I’m not sure why it’s coming back up now, but if you need to talk it out, how about actually discussing it with me rather than making little swipes at a completely different discussion and at any other commenter who happens to agree with me on a couple of points? I guarantee you Valya and I did not start out on a great note, but now we’re friends because we worked that out and it turns out we agree on a lot of things. It’s possible to work past these misunderstandings.

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
2 years ago

@Bakunin
Here it is!
comment image

MissEB47 (Resident Rainbow Lorikeet and Beak Typist)
MissEB47 (Resident Rainbow Lorikeet and Beak Typist)
2 years ago

Dvärghundspossen and Cyborgette-Thank you! They are really shitty people in a multitude of different ways, so I wasn’t surprised at their behaviour. I got through it and I am in a much better place now. And I don’t live with them anymore, which is a bonus. 😀

Skylalalalalalala-That’s awful! Stories like that make me realise how messed up the world is for women and girls. I’m sorry you had to go through that.

Mikey-Bloody hell!! What the hell were the teaches thinking parading you in front of the entire school like that?! And your dad making you have naked weigh ins?! WTF?

Bakunin
Bakunin
2 years ago

@Robert
That’s a shame. I liked Sinfest, but haven’t kept up for a long time. The transition from the early strips to the feminist ones was interesting, sucks that they went all ERFy.

(A)utonomous Escapist
(A)utonomous Escapist
2 years ago

The Blade Runner-quote-pasta was great. The only good thing to come out of this, I think.

Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
2 years ago

Ham planet is a real insult that I’ve seen manurespherians use before. Unfortunately for them, it’s not terribly effective. It almost sounds kind of cool and sci-fi.

Now I want a exoplanet made of ham, with a variety of cheese moons and some onion rings.

Violet the Vile, Moonbat Screech Junky
Violet the Vile, Moonbat Screech Junky
2 years ago

@kupo – I feel obliged to say that I am also uncomfortable with your aggressiveness. I have several times seen you make very angry comments in response to someone who is well intentioned but simply not as educated as they could be.

It is possible to disagree with someone firmly while still being polite – both @Rhuu and @Valentin do this above.

In reference to the current topic, I’m currently trying to lose weight because my health would be much improved if I weighed less. It’s bloody hard work. A guy on a bike once shouted at me to “go eat another cream cake” which I personally chose to take as an instruction. I have also had a man look me up and down and say “Yeah like I’d shag that blubber,” to which I said “You never had the option”.

Moon Custafer
Moon Custafer
2 years ago

Lumipuna @:

Now I want a exoplanet made of ham, with a variety of cheese moons and some onion rings.

Sounds like the kind of place that would exist in a Daniel Pinkwater book.

kupo
kupo
2 years ago

It is possible to disagree with someone firmly while still being polite – both @Rhuu and @Valentin do this above.

This is what we call tone policing. If someone is being harmful to me, I don’t have to spend emotional labor kindly, sweetly holding their hand through it.

Gaebolga
Gaebolga
2 years ago

Passagère clandestine wrote:

Sock puppet much?

Tell us again about how they faked the moon landing….

Seriously, both kupo and Valentin have been posting here more than long enough that you’ll need some serious evidence to back up that claim if you don’t want to look like a petulant dumbfuck.

kupo
kupo
2 years ago

Also, the most aggressive thing I’ve said in this thread was to call it “charming” that Wetherby was mocking someone for one physical trait instead of another. Unless you consider it “aggressive” to point out that everyone has bias.

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
2 years ago

Yeah I don’t think we should tone police…especially when there is no tone to police right now🙃

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
2 years ago

@Violet – as someone who spends waaaaay too much energy worried that people are going to be mad at me… I do appreciate people who can just state their opinions, as kupo (and others) do.

Violet the Vile, Moonbat Screech Junky
Violet the Vile, Moonbat Screech Junky
2 years ago

@kupo

I wasn’t suggesting that you should hold anyone’s hand sweetly through anything. I don’t think that’s why any of us come to this site 🙂

The issue I have is that there has been a couple of times recently when a new poster makes a post that is mostly well meaning but has one phrase or sentence which is badly chosen or ignorant. Four or five times I have seen you pick up that opinion and respond with what I felt was unnecessary levels of anger. You have started a dogpile a couple of times. I have found this to be uncomfortable reading.

You’re right that Wetherby made an ignorant comment, but they don’t look like a troll to me and I don’t think they deserved to be dogpiled on. Corrected, yes; attacked, no.

As for tone policing – I’m just another poster here, not the police. I have no authority whatsoever. You’re free to do whatever you like with my opinion, which includes completely ignoring it.

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
2 years ago

I don’t see this is dog-piling at all? Kupo posted something and then I posted something, that is 2 people, not a pile. then clandestine mentioned something which they are angry about from another thread before and said some things about kupo that are unfair. then I tried to support kupo and then clandestine said I am a sock. I don’t see at all that this time it is a dog pile.

and again, people do not need to be a troll to say something that can upset and also, make people angry. it is okay to be angry. it is okay to say your opinion clearly. If other people join later and make a dog pile it is their choice, they are to blame, not the first person who commented. even if that comment is angry or not so polite.

kupo
kupo
2 years ago

I wasn’t suggesting that you should hold anyone’s hand sweetly through anything. I don’t think that’s why any of us come to this site 🙂

But you are. How else do I be more “polite” then? If I don’t ooze honey I’m being “aggressive”.

The issue I have is that there has been a couple of times recently when a new poster makes a post that is mostly well meaning but has one phrase or sentence which is badly chosen or ignorant. Four or five times I have seen you pick up that opinion and respond with what I felt was unnecessary levels of anger.

If I respond with anger it’s because something harmful is being said. Because it doesn’t harm you or you don’t think it’s harmful enough’s to warrant anger doesn’t mean it doesn’t. And yes, there are certain issues I’m more sensitive to than others, but that’s because they’re harmful to me or people I love.

You have started a dogpile a couple of times. I have found this to be uncomfortable reading.

Dogpiling is a term for continuing to pile on after the point has already been made. If I started a dogpile, you’re saying I shouldn’t even make the point in the first place, then? I’m not trying to put words in your mouth. I’m trying to understand what you mean here. You’re upset with me for calling people out at all, because that started a dogpile? Also, when was this? I haven’t seen any dogpiling going on. That’s something that’s against the comments policy now, so I would hope it gets called out if and when it happens.

You’re right that made an ignorant comment, but they don’t look like a troll to me and I don’t think they deserved to be dogpiled on.

What dogpile happened in this thread? I was pretty much the only one talking to Wetherby. And I called out the harmful things Wetherby was saying not because I thought they were a troll, but because those things are harmful.

As for tone policing – I’m just another poster here, not the police. I have no authority whatsoever. You’re free to do whatever you like with my opinion, which includes completely ignoring it.

What are you even saying here? I know you know what tone policing is, so what is this dismissal about?

Valkyrine
Valkyrine
2 years ago

I also thought that Wetherby’s original comment wasn’t made in malice but still needed to be called out on it. When they then pulled the classic “I can’t be biased against X, I have a X friend, I’ll have you know!” is when I started to to give them a bit of a side-eye.

Violet the Vile, Moonbat Screech Junky
Violet the Vile, Moonbat Screech Junky
2 years ago

@kupo

So, just to get this completely straight in my head….

It’s fine when you say that someone’s post has made you uncomfortable; but it’s unacceptable for me to do the same.

Okay, thank you. Got it.

@all

You are correct when you say there is no dogpile in this thread; I wasn’t clear about that.

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
2 years ago

Violet, kupo’s discomfort was from someone’s anecdote, and the biases it showed and promoted.

Your discomfort was from how dhe communicated that, which was in a blunt way.

One is tone policing, the other is not. Does that make sense?

Violet the Vile, Moonbat Screech Junky
Violet the Vile, Moonbat Screech Junky
2 years ago

@Rhuu

Not really, because that wasn’t what made me uncomfortable. I have no problem with how anyone communicates anything. I myself am capable of an extremely blunt tone, as I am sure you are all aware.

What makes me (extremely) uncomfortable is a pattern of behaviour I have observed over several months, which I feel amounts to consistent bullying of new posters. I thought I made that clear, but the conversation has now been derailed into whether or not I was tone policing. I guess if we just look at this one occasion yes I was, but I was trying to make an overall point.

However, this conversation appears to be going nowhere. I’m not prepared to engage with @Kupo’s post above right now, since they are using the same aggressive/policing/bullying tactics on me and are clearly not prepared to hear what I’m saying. And I have absolutely no argument with you, @Valentin, or anyone else.

So I’m done with this conversation now.

I enjoy this community, I’d like to stay part of it, and I felt I needed to say something about something that has been upsetting me for some time. I knew it was going to be badly received; and it was.

So I’m going to go back to work and log in some other time.

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
2 years ago

Okay, then finish story🤷But I think it is unfair to accuse Kupo of bullying and specifically, alone aggressive behaviour to new commenters and not give evidence, especially if you say it happens for some time now.

It is known that trolls come here and this community protects the boarders harshly. It is also known that in the internet it is hard to know tone exactly. I understand how it feels that one person can make you feel uncomfortable in a place but I simply do not believe that kupo is doing this. In fact – what I see is that kupo is too much attacked, like scapegoat. there is a veiw here already of kupo which I think is unfair to her, and I believe it is simply because she speaks her mind and always calls out harmful things when she sees them. Maybe that hurts – but that is a *good* thing. This website is not a safe space and if we want to be progressive, it is very important we have people who will critisise and speak out when the situation is not so good.

Alaniel (aka LittleLurker)
Alaniel (aka LittleLurker)
2 years ago

Is there a way to express discomfort at someones way of saying something without that being considered tone-policing?

This is an honest question and one that is important to me. I experienced abuse in the past and when the way something is said triggers me or makes me feel unsafe, I honestly never know what to do, because I don’t want to tone-police . I usually do nothing but then sometimes I can’t sleep the next night or can’t concentrate for quite some time. So sometimes I wish I could say something and at least get it clearer what was actually meant, i.e. bluntness instead of aggressiveness, a call-out instead of an attempt to drive someone out of a group. Because my experiences with social dynamics are so skewed towards the bad that I almost always read the latter even if everyone else can clearly see it’s the former. But I don’t want to accidentally cause offense either. Because I feel a genuine fear of a group “turning against me” (that’s not exactly the right words).

Here that isn’t so much of a problem, because you’re all pretty kind people and if I explain where I’m coming from, you’ll understand it. But I hang around other activist spaces as well, and the question comes up there, too.

So, is there any way to say you’re uncomfortable or to ask for a clarification of what was meant without that being seen as a sneaky attempt to tone-police? I know that this is difficult because trolls often do such things in bad faith and really do mean to attack or tone-police someone. And I never know how to “prove” that I mean the question honestly. It would be so much easier sometimes if you could speak face-to-face, because then you could probably see how I meant something.

And if you think the answer to my question is no, then that’s alright, too. At least then I know I can do nothing but let it go and maybe then my mind doesn’t go over it for hours on end, trying to figure out if I should have said something and what I could have said.

I am actually a bit anxious right now and hope this isn’t seen as offensive or tone-policing, as well. Hypervigilance, it’s not a fun state of mind.

Jesalin: Clit-o-centric Lesbian Goddess
Jesalin: Clit-o-centric Lesbian Goddess
2 years ago

and we so much believe you.

Just who the fuck is “we”?

Bina
2 years ago

@Scildfreja:

A-are you suggesting…

that men

are hypergamous???

Why no, I’m saying it straight out!