By David Futrelle
Incels insist that no one else can understand their particular brand of loneliness and misery — and that goes double for women. Indeed, they insist, women can’t be “involuntarily celibate” like them because, unlike true incels, women can always find themselves a Chad (or at least some beta cuck) to have sex with.
And because of this, many incels go on to argue, women can’t really suffer from depression either. When women claim to be depressed, they’re just doing it for attention, or as a way to add some drama to their lives.
In a recent post on the Braincels subreddit, a fellow calling himself NoobSoyboy set forth what he sees as the crucial differences between male (real) and female (fake) depression. He started with the ladies:
Female depression teehee: – My boyfriend is not texting back after 5 min – Chad doesn’t want to fuck me – I wasn’t invited at that party – Listening to sad songs – All my friends are busy – Posting on Tumblr – Cutting herself for attention whoring – Eating Ice Cream – Everyone checks out on you and supports you
“Teehee.”
On to the men:
Male depression: – Spend years rotting
– Has never felt intimate human touch – No girlfriend – No friends – Insomnia – Suicidal and homicidal – Alcohol, drugs – PTSD and chased by demons – Nobody gives a fuck and you’re told to fix yourself if you seek help, no support at all
Never mind all those people who have tried over the years to offer incels help, only to have their reasonable suggestions rejected outright.
I wish those roastie would stop making depression look like a fucking joke, females can’t be depressed , stop appropriating male culture you fucking whores.
Yep, in his mind depression belongs to men and men alone. In the past, we’ve seen assorted groups of angry dudes declare all sorts of things — from video gaming to Ghostbuster movies — to be sacred male spaces that women should not be allowed to “invade.” But I don’t think I’ve ever seen any of these angry dudes stake a claim to a mental illness.
Depression, I need hardly remind you, is actually far more likely to strike women than men. According to the Mayo clinic, women are twice as likely to be diagnosed with depression than men and far more likely to try to commit suicide. (Men succeed at suicide more often because they are far more likely to use more lethal methods.)
One reason that men are so much less likely to be diagnosed with depression is that they’re less willing to seek help for it; they’ve been taught to hide their sadness because showing this sort of “weakness” is seen as unmanly.
But that’s not the whole story. Cis women deal with a host of biological and social factors that cis men don’t face. Cis men don’t suffer from the extreme form of PMS called premenstrual dysphoric disorder, a form of depression; they don’t suffer postpartum depression. (Trans folks of all genders, I should note, are many times more likely to suffer depression than their cis counterparts, mostly because of the bigotry and abuse they face on a regular basis; roughly 40 percent attempt suicide.)
I’ve been dealing with chronic (and sometimes quite severe) depression for decades, and I’ve known numerous others — both male and female — who have also suffered from this debilitating disease. From my own personal experience — as someone who has suffered it and who has watched others suffer from it — I know that depression is every bit as real for women as it is for men.
In the discussion spawned by NoobSoyboy’s absurd post, several women offered similar rebuttals to his, er, theory — describing in detail their own struggles with severe depression and anxiety. But most of the Braincels regulars weren’t much interested; even acknowledging the basic fact that women can suffer depression like men is too much for them, as it undercuts their contention that incels are the most pitiable creatures on the planet.
Commenter after commenter echoed NoobSoybot’s delusional “argument.” As one put it:
Women have no idea how it’s like to be depressed.
Female Depression: “I’m doing bad in school and I didn’t get invited to that party, it’s okay I’m calling my boyfriend and my 3 best friends over to try to comfort me”.
They equate basic sadness to depression. Honestly nothing works out for me so getting bad grades for something I studied for and not getting invited to something is just a normal day.
Their depression is my everyday existence.
Another commenter attacked one of the women who posted about her depression.
I wouldn’t be depressed if I could easily have sex with those of the opposite gender despite being ugly and low value just because of my genitalia. If I woke up a foid tomorrow, I would he able to easily cure my ailments and quickly. Women being depressed is hilarious. You have so much advantages over men and yet you still bitch. …
Fuck me you women seriously cannot put yourselves in our shoes. You won’t ever admit that you have it easy compared to us.
The comment with the most upvotes? A wall of text by someone called tallchad devoted to the proposition that “females just don’t understand what the general feeling of depression is really like,” especially for
males who struggle romantically, like when you try and explain to them what’s the matter for instance they simply cannot fathom what its like to experience such an awful feeling.
Never mind that several women in that very discussion made abundantly clear that they understand depression all too well.
It’s completely alien to them, they haven’t felt anything like it, and why would they? Their lives are literally scripted out for them like something out of the truman show, the female will experience way much more that the average male may never get to experience, just because of the privilege of being born female (you don’t even need to be an attractive female anymore).
Not only is none of this true, but even if it were true it wouldn’t leave women immune to depression. Having your life “scripted out … like something out of the truman show” actually sounds like a nightmare; indeed, the plot of The Truman Show revolved around Truman’s horrific discovery that he’d been imprisoned from birth in a fake, scripted world — and his attempt to escape it.
More to the point, though, depression can strike anyone, regardless of how perfect their life seems. Yes, depression affects poor people more than rich — because they tend to have more stresses and fewer resources — but hot young heiresses can be as miserable as any incel, because depression is a disease. Chads and Staceys can get cancer, too.
The female experiences everything, from … males way out of their league all the way to having a nice house and having a betabux provider that buys them the new shoes she wants whilst she stays at home or works a comfortable office job.
Incels live in a fantasy land. It’s not possible for most mothers to stay at home to raise the kids any more; they’re far more likely to run themselves ragged working and doing the bulk of the childcare (if they’re not raising the kids on their own). Many of these women work on their feet all day; women make up the vast majority of nurses and health aides.
Meanwhile your average male has failed at every hurdle, all the support is on women because of the gyrocentric nature of society, and frankly, he feels like he’s been left behind, then for the next 50-60 years he’s working a low wage job being barked orders by sociopaths … .
This just in: all men have shitty jobs; no women ever have shitty jobs.
What does the most damage is that [men] can’t find a life long partner, this is what hypergamy has done, the average male’s looksmatch equivalent has had so much positive reinforcement growing up that she thinks nothing can stop her from marrying someone way above her looks level, she ends up in a perpetual cycle, getting pumped and dumped by chad because he doesn’t want to commit (and why would he lol) then onto the next one, then onto the next, etc. etc. until she hits the wall and has to settle for a betabux provider.
None of this is true. According to one recent survey, the median number of lifetime opposite-sex sex partners for straight men between the ages of 25-44 was 6.1; for their female counterparts it was 4.2. (I’m guessing the difference between those two numbers has to do with the tendency of men to exaggerate and women to downplay their sexual activity, and also due to the small percentage of the female population that engages in sex work.) The “cock carousel” is a myth.
So the average male is left with limited options, he can either rope or keep coping and trying until he’s cold, dead, rotting away and underneath the ground, but to do this he must continue working 60 hour weeks, and these weeks continue to grind him down… effectively like a huge axe cutting away his mental state, he gets left utterly devastated by years of emotional neglect, his goodness being sucked out of him, he sees no goodness in the world anymore. It just keeps getting worse and worse, until the rope finally looks more appealing.
This is what the world looks like to someone who is seriously depressed. It’s not reality. Depression distorts your thinking; incel ideology compounds this distortion, making depression worse. Incel ideology functions much like a disease, harming everyone who takes it seriously. If you’re a young man dealing with depression, incel sites are the absolute worst places in the world to seek help.
Yet again, these dudes cannot comprehend that they’re not special little snowflakes who are the ONLY ones who are sad and lonely (and it’s always someone else’s fault).
They keep trying to be special and unique even via depression and bitterness. It’d be sad if they weren’t so despicable.
I suppose I’m totally faking my depression according to this turd gnome. I’m just sad that Chad hasn’t texted me back, and not dead inside because I was molested and abused as a child and attempting to unlearn the behaviors I used to survive. No wonder my Xanax isn’t working! I don’t need a higher dosage, I’m just not depressed at all! [/sarcasm]
I’m not really mentally ill, I’m just sad because superficial reasons. I’m not actually learning anything about how my brain works and how I might be autistic and I’m learning ways to make my adult life easier, because clearly my brain doesn’t work at all! [/heavy sarcasm]
I just need to have Chad text me back and that will make everything better! He’ll take care of me.[/SARCASM]
Just like how if these dudes magically manage to get laid, they’d stop being so
bitter and hatefuldepressed! [/HEAVY SARCASM]I’d better call the medical authorities and report my psychiatrist for malpractice in relation to all of his female patients – clearly, none of them have any mental illnesses whatsoever. /s
When everything you know about women comes from commercials and #justgirlythings memes.
There are lots of depressed people, all over the place – modern society is really good at making them. Depression’s a vicious little beastie. Please talk about it if it’s affecting you – it’s tough, but the anonymity of the internet is often good to help you take those first tentative steps. Don’t let it settle in.
What baffles me is their insistence that access to some kind of heterosexual sex means you can’t be depressed, and yet they say women are the ones who are depressed for dumb reasons.
“Fear not! Somewhere out there, a horny straight man would be willing to have sex with you. Take great comfort in that thought as you sleep on a park bench.”
I can’t even imagine having so few problems that you think “not getting laid” is the worst thing possible.
You’d think as someone who has wrestled with major depression in the past (and has gotten it down to *mostly* managed) I’d have more sympathy for these guys, and yet I just want to spam Rippy the Razor at them until it sinks in.
Not nice of me, I know.
Not only is it ridiculous to claim that women can’t be depressed, it’s also ridiculous to claim that men only become depressed because they’re incels with no friends. When I was in high school a boy they probably would’ve called a Chad committed suicide. He was athletic (on the swim team) and popular. I didn’t know him personally, so I don’t know what if any love life he had, but his death caused quite a bit of upset at my school and it seemed like the people who did no him had no idea he was depressed and suicidal. By the way, the next year a kind of gothy freshman girl committed suicide and it didn’t cause anywhere near the amount of grief in the school. So much for the theory that people automatically care about female suffering more than male.
Incels are just some of the most superficial people. That can’t comprehend that you can’t assume you know someone’s mental state just by looking at them. People who aren’t conventionally hot can be happy. People who have lots of friends and get laid can still be mentally ill. How dare they whine about how “Stacies” won’t look at them because they’ve got the wrong wrist circumference when they are the ones making snap judgements about people’s inner lives based on the most surface traits.
The “scripted like the Truman show” seems like one of those moments where they come close to the right realization, but stop themselves at the last second. Obviously when they say “a woman” these things they are imagining “Stacy” and when they say “average male” they’re clearly thinking of themselves. Stacy’s life is scripted because she is a fictional character they’ve made up, and real women are different, but good luck trying to convince them of the truth.
Novels. I prescribe novels for naive incels. They have a way of informing the reader about the suffering of others.
As for the incels who are more vicious than naive, probably the only thing that will convince them to change their ways is legal repercussions for their calls to harass, assault, rape, and murder women.
I think there’s a revealing bit of projection here.
Almost an element of self realisation; but they suppress and sublimate it. That idea of “You have the ultimate in privilege, yet you still claim to be oppressed, even though your problems are trivial to non existent”.
They look in the mirror, but they see women there instead.
I, and my usual drinking pals here, may have some situational depression. We are conventionally attractive too.
We have been on a drinking binge lately, from various issues, I’ll get back to that, we do try to help one another through things, which includes serious health issues, and you have to eat and try to fix your health.
I got a frozen pizza, it was awful. 🙁
Yeah, serious issues /s. It wasn’t cheap, either. It is serious though when you are trying to at least eat something, you don’t have a lot of money, etc.
Well I try to find a positive, or try to come up with alternatives, to anything. There’s some pizza places around here that do make good pizza, step up to that. Those are more $$ though. The other idea: Another thing to learn how to cook. Make your own pizza. This I can do.
I always try to find some positive in things, and alternatives, and seek a new path, in regards to other things too, all that. And I, and most people I know, try to “keep going” so to say.
Why I have been depressed lately, my mom passed away 🙁
She was really the only family I had and I spent a lot of time with her too.
And there’s a related story here that’s even more depressing..
First, a tale about my mom, from some years past. She was a high strung person who smoked two packs a day, drank coffee and pop like water, and subsisted on junk food. Had a heart attack. It was caught right away (her friend was there with her when it happened), she went right to the hospital and was ok, recovered from it. She even quit all her bad habits! Cold turkey! And even went to (doc recommended) stress management classes. She did it all 🙂 Yay mom!
And lived another 25 years.
A similar thing we found out about lately. All we ladies here have encountered this guy, so that’s three of us, I have now heard from number four. And found out more details from her …
This is a neighbor guy who gets a little too friendly with the ladies. But, he’s not super creepy and it’s hard to tell, he’s rather subtle about it. And he’s married. Worst lechers of all! IMO. Friends are nodding along here. Also, plenty of people like this guy and he’s connected to others here through work. Very outgoing person also, talks to everyone. I’ve only had a couple of short convos with the man, and even I was wondering if this guy was suggesting something, it was more like a vague sales pitch of himself.
So our new pal, and neighbor, M, knows more about this guy and she told me the following tale ..
This guy’s wife had a heart attack. And basically wound up “brain dead”. It wasn’t caught in time. She lived, but it does not sound good, serious brain damage.
And this girl said the same, about (possibly) “hitting on you”, to quote her: “He’s telling me this sob story and I’m thinking – please don’t hit on me!”
It can’t be a lie or exaggerated either because too many people here know this man, and are work connected to him, serious BS would be shooting yourself in the professional foot.
And you wouldn’t want to sink yourself professionally when you need the insurance to take care of your sick wife.
And he does take care of her, he stuck with her.
This is just so, so, sad 🙁
I feel so bad for them and wish there was something I could do.
No, I don’t plan on becoming the guy’s side piece. I don’t believe in fooling around with married men because my own father was a cheater. But in this case, this is a very grey area and could you really blame the guy? And a man who has stuck by his wife.
I have no sex drive and am not looking for anything like that so I wouldn’t even go there. Friends nodding along again here, OK yeah, several women have said the same about this guy. I was right.
But it’s far worse than anyone could’ve guessed ..
These poor people 🙁
If I could wish for anything, I would wish that his wife could be well again and they could be happy …
My mom survived a heart attack. You realize how lucky you really were. We had mom for decades more years and she was perfectly fine and healthy, and had the chance to improve her health and she did so. It sounds like this woman here never got that chance ..
Depression. Can be situational too. And if these types are going to tie it to lack of women – how about this guy? Can you imagine how depressed he must be? And yet he sticks by his wife and takes care of her.
There are good people out there. Wow I feel so bad for this guy 🙁
This is just tragic 🙁
My neurochemicals beg to differ with these utter fucking shitstains.
@drst: As do my mother’s experiences with depression.
They’re miserable and unhappy? Good.
They’ll never have girlfriends? Better.
I’m happy to have found a good counselor who will work with me to overcome my budding agoraphobia. Right now I have trouble driving and leaving my dinky apartment. I’m not sure all my fears and depression are unreasonable though. People like these incels exist. They have no compassion. Also my health ain’t great and I’m scared I’ll pass out while driving. I never thought of judging whether others’ mental health issues were “real.” Wtf does it matter? Be kind. None of us know what others are facing. Hugs to all of you here who have issues – but none to incels. Climb out of yourself incels and look at the world.
@Dreamer
I hope your agoraphobia gets better soon or that you have great success working through it!
The thing that gets me is that they think having sex will solve everything. No wonder they are mad. They think sex will solve all their problems, their depression, the fact that nobody wants anything to do with them. They are miserable and there is an answer out there and NOBODY WILL GIVE IT TO THEM.
The thing is, not only will having sex not solve their problems, whatever they are, but they seem unable to understand what a relationship is. Because a few good relationships with other people, friend, lover, spouse, probably would help with some of their problems. But they aren’t interested in relationships. They want to stick their dick in a warm place. That’s all sex is to them.
And they accuse women of being shallow for only fucking good-looking dudes, while they themselves think the whole man/woman thing is about looks.
I have a friend who would freak them out. He’s ugly. I mean just plain ugly. He’s married to an incredibly beautiful woman. The marriage has lasted decades. It would never occur to these pathetic men that, yes, my friend is ugly, but he is smart as hell, funny as hell, kind as hell, and that is far far more important to the woman who married him than his looks (far far more important for me too, yes, a bit of a sigh here, but I’ve managed my crush on him without ever letting him know how I feel and have enjoyed his friendship for decades too).
The idea of enjoying a friendship with a person of the opposite sex without sex must also be alien to them. If they didn’t hate the object of their desire so very much, I could almost feel sorry for them. But no. Hate gets no sympathy from me.
@Z&T
I make my own pizza from scratch. Well, the sauce is from a jar. But it’s easy to make and I recommend doing a big batch, dividing it up into balls, and freezing them. I make 6 pizzas worth of dough at once. Makes it easier to just defrost a glob of dough (stick it in warm water to defrost quicker), top it, and bake it.
As an alternative, Trader Joe’s sells premase pizza dough cheap. Or there’s always pillsbury.
Some grocery stores (well, the Nugget Market chain by me, which I think is mostly Sacramento and parts nearby) sell premade pizza dough as well.
Wow. I didn’t know my supposed access to a penis could cure all my psychological and physical (how!?) ailments. Not really sure how that works since we all know women don’t REALLY get turned on or need sex like men do, yet it’s somehow still so incredibly beneficial to us!
What’s wrong with doing these things for depression anyway? Sure, their not themselves a substitute for comprehensive long-term treatment, but neither is posting misogynist shit on r/braincels. If something makes you feel better, even temporarily, and hurts nobody I say go for it.
I see Mr Newb mentions PTSD which makes me curious. It’s of course entirely possible for any individual incel to have experienced trauma leading to PTSD. It’s not so obvious what about being an incel could cause PTSD more generally…perhaps nothing?
While on the topic, I saw a study of soldiers that found playing tetris soon after a traumatic event helped reduce PTSD symptoms, which shows what an awesome game tetris is and always will be
@calmdown: Their post isn’t entirely coherent, but they seem to think that those activities – the ice cream, et al. – aren’t responses to depression, but are the symptoms of depression. As in, their depression is real because they can feel it, but other people’s depression is fake because they can only see it when it manifests as visible activities. A complete lack of theory of mind, in short.
@Turtle: Yeah, I’ve seen several sources that claim – and my own experiences back it up – that engaging in some sort of intellectual exercise, like solving puzzles, is a good way to manage anxiety, intrusive thoughts, trauma, et al. Funnily enough, this very phenomenon is actually a clue in one of the Lord Peter Wimsey novels from the 20s!
Incels’ loneliness and inability to find a romantic partner is a direct result of their horrifying levels of misogyny and douchebaggery. They think they have the right to act creepy and gross with impunity. Actions have consequences.
All women should take the pledge never to have sex with an incel.
Younger me, who had gobsmackingly low self-esteem, once got involved with an MRA. That I was treated like trash by this individual should come as no surprise. He forced me to watch really awful porn (i.e. bestiality) under the threat of severing me from his “love,” and he was by no means faithful. This “relationship” was 20 years ago, but I am still scarred by it.
Ladies, don’t have sex with MRA’s, MGTOWS, or incels. You cannot “save” them. They want to be awful.
I must have faked my suicidal thoughts then according to incels.
@the real cie
That is horrible.
hugs
Happy to know that you got away from that pathetic excuse of a boyfriend.
Shit, women can’t be depressed? I was recently pondering if I was agender or otherwise nonbinary. I guess this confirms it, then. Thanks, incels! /sarcasm (not about the gender-questioning thing, but about it being confirmed by stupid incel bullshit)