By David Futrelle
Well, you have to give the MGTOWs credit for one thing: they do tend to have very vivid imaginations. Over on the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit, a fellow calling himself MGTOWrath recently worked himself into a lather over women who think men are “oppressive, power-mad, sexist, etc.”
If men really were all of these terrible things, he wondered, wouldn’t they have completely subjugated women by now? His mind quickly filling with extravagantly violent fantasies, MGTOWrath suggested that all men would have to do to regain the upper hand would be to
beat the living crap out of every woman we come across, drag them by the legs out of the nice comfortable houses we built for them, lock them up in chains and stick them in pigpens and stables and clamp machines over their tits and stick probes inside their c*nts to extract eggs and milk.
Well that escalated quickly. This is a rather weirdly specific vision of a future world, almost as though Mr. MGTOWrath has been working out the details in his mind for some time.
The world would be run far more efficiently that way. We would only need about 1% of the current female population in order to propagate the growth of civilization and breed future generations.
Yes, I’m sure a society made up almost entirely of angry incels would work out great. Also, how exactly are you going to “propagate the growth of civilization” if only one percent of the population is capable of bearing children? Is each woman supposed to have a hundred babies? Or will you somehow have to conjure up some cheap and reliable artificial wombs before you can launch your little revolution?
A few thousand women locked up in concrete prisons chained to milking machines, while the rest of the earth belongs to men who will continue to build skyscrapers, technology, new sciences, etc.
And with basically no women left to bitch at or about, a whole host of angry Youtubers would have to get real jobs for once. So I guess that would be progress of a sort.
It would be the dawn of a new age of prosperity and peace, with only men around to sustain everything that works and women to fulfill the role of functioning like the proper c*ntholes they were always meant to be.
What an inspiring vision!
And yet, not one single peep about this very easily feasible model of society out of men.
You mean, aside from all the MGTOWs and MRAs posting their fantasies about how much better the world would be without women — or at least with women reduced to chattel in some male-dominated postapocalyptic wasteland?
Nope, you only see women talk about eradicating an entire gender and reshaping society for the benefit of only one demographic.
I don’t know where you’re hanging out, dude, but I don’t really see very much of this myself.
Who the fuck they trying to fool?
Who the fuck are you trying to fool, Mr. MGTOWrath? You’re the one sitting around thinking about how cool it would be to kidnap all the world’s women and hook them up to milking machines.
Here’s a little proposition for you and all your fellow MGTOWs: prove to us how much more peaceful and prosperous a male-only world would be. Get yourselves together, find yourselves a little island somewhere far from the prying eyes of women, and set up your own little MGTOW utopia. I’ve even prepared a handy list of islands for you to check out.
Come on, dudes. You know you want to. You can build skyscrapers together, develop new technologies, worship a pig’s head on a stick. It’ll be fun!
Huh… I think we just witnessed the origin of the Tleilaxu right here.
I could swear I’ve said that before on this site…..
@Katamount
Only problem is the typical miggie has very little in common with Zen or with sufi.
They’re more insufirable.
Re: “Creative capitalization and peculiar Punctuation”
Honestly, dude, it’s not that we don’t understand that using atypical syntax is a thing.
It’s just that you are entirely lacking in finesse.
If you’d like a crash course on how to properly use improper English, might I suggest “Thoughts from a Dog” aka @dogfeelings on Twitter?
Punctuation and capitalization used properly improperly can add a level of sincerity and feeling and add weight to a paragraph.
In the Curious Case of our Mysterious Hopper the Probable; sock, they merely make It Seem Like he is Emphasizing every Word like someone_Auditioning, for the role of World’s Worst Sports-broadcaster,,;
Particularly since he’s kinda been flat out ignoring, I don’t know, EVERYONE who tried to honestly address and respond th his actual ‘thesis’ in order to poke at the people who found his typography obnoxious?
Like, if your entire initial comment was supposedly about “This blog is sensational and not in the good way”, it seems rather silly to spend the rest of your time yelling about how you’re the best at English and are so cool and awesome you can purposefully defy convention and it’s incredibly meaningful and super secret code for some higher level of knowledge.
@Katamount
Why I stopped reading after book 1. That kind of dystopia is really difficult to stomach from a dude – especially when he writes the axolotl tanks as a necessary evil in the later books.
Supposedly he meant well, but it’s always hard to gauge with this kind of… Concept. I tend to think that, if a man engages women-as-livestock ideas with anything other pure sympathy for women and anger on their behalf, his motivations are deeply suspect and therefore dangerous.
I remember how years ago, when “axolotl tank” was mentioned here, it was about one regular commenter’s aquarist hobby.
Contrapangloss @:
—especially while failing to parse dustydeste’s quip:
I tend to see Dune as “warhammer 40k, but done correctly”. In both, a central theme is how the universe is way too big to keep empathy for your wards. I never felt the author of Dune tried to depict the various protagonists are heroes forced to do bad things, but more as utterly depassed by the scale of events. The Tleilaxu tend to be depicted in an especially bad light in my opinion, doubly so later on where it’s shown that they aren’t even especially good at technology, dispelling the idea that their “pragmatism” helped them in that matter.
I can however easily accept the opinion the tleilaxus are still depicted in too good a light. In the same universe we also have women who litteraly use the power of being good at sex as a way to control people ; while it sure help make it look like a crapsack world, it’s also way too close to what some people actually believe to feel comfortable.
@William Hooper: My friend Mr. Joyce would like to have a word with you. Ahem…
Come on, ordinary man with that large big nonobli head, and that blanko berbecked fischial ekksprezzion Machinsky Scapolopolos, Diuzinascu or other. Your machelar’s mutton leg’s getting musclebound from being too pulled.
…On topic, how exactly do you “build” a “new science”? What do you build it with? Bricks? Concrete? Popsicle sticks? I’m thinking of this:
@Penny Psmith – Yes, that’s it exactly, with regards to the delightful and imaginary sounds of Nonsensicle! Some silly fun and definitely trumpets. Alas that I lack any skills whatsoever when it comes to brass instruments.
…& why exactly do they need all that human breast milk? Are they planning on drinking it? It sounds like they’re planning on drinking it.
Also, why do they want to remove the eggs from these women? That’s even more baffling. At least you can drink breast milk. Does he think they can eat those eggs?? Because if he plans for those women to make all of the babbies, won’t they need those eggs to still be, you know, inside of them?
It’s also hilarious whenever a misogynist claims men are the intelligent & logical ones, but then can’t do even basic math 😀
I love this blog. David’s writing is very good at dissembling the Manosphere and blending humor with it, even if the topic is dark.
But what I love most here is the comments. I can’t remember the last time I read all the comments for a post and didn’t learn something. It could be music, politics, books, games, history, or any other topic. I don’t post here often but I wanted to let people know that the community here is truly one of the best I have found on the internet.
@Kestrel: Totally agree!! Even with all the crap trolls try to do this site is still one of the most thoughtful and least hostile places I know of.
I agree totally. Part of the point of the Dune saga is that even a semi-immortal being who commands all of humanity and can literally see the future is nevertheless constrained by the fact that the universe is just a huge, lumbering machine that does what it does with no concern for us. “Hand over your wallet or get shot” is technically a choice, but it’s not much of one.
A major theme of the books is the many different conceptions of what it means to be human; what is constant and what can be changed. The Tleilaxu have reduced their women to an actual state of inhumanity; to literal objects. That’s horrifying, but perhaps that’s also the point.
It’s all about the many different directions history can go in; how a small step here can lead to large changes down the road and how sometimes you don’t notice the dead end until you’re stuck in it. I never got the sense that the Tleilaxu were meant as a viable future for mankind. Rather, they represent one of the dead ends.
That said, Frank Herbert was human, with all the potential for being screwed up that that entails.
***
Tangent:
Because the Tleilaxu Masters can effectively reincarnate and since they control their Face Dancers by mental conditioning, that means that it’s a society run entirely by a small group of insanely old men, who have mentally or physically enslaved everybody else in the population.
That does sound like somebody’s idea of utopia. Somebody really unpleasant.
It should be noted however that that post was a reply to this: https://icemountainfire.wordpress.com/2014/11/17/men-are-not-broken/
which, while biologically realistic (about the sperm bank thing), is only slightly less bizarre, and all the commenters at least as far as I could see from skimming through it agreed with the post.
A bit OT, but an interesting reminder that history is filled with people who declined to conform to the self-appointed gatekeepers of society:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jul/28/anne-lister-blue-plaque-lesbian-marriage-church
@ Vicky P
That’s such a sweet story. Also, I like Shibden Hall, it’s really pretty, and there used to be a bloke there who made clogs.
@ Alan
When I saw that Lister was from York, I was hoping you could contribute something. Thank you for the photo of Shibden Hall. Are the rest of the grounds that pretty?
@ Vicky P
Yeah, it’s really quite beautiful. There’s a boating lake too. When I was in my early teens my parents moved to a village called Northowram. Shibden was the only place within walking distance where there was anything to do. I can tell you a lot about clog manufacture and dry stone walls.
https://www.visitcalderdale.com/attra-shibden-hall-estate
@Yutolia, @Kestrel,
Agree with you both 100%. I would read Mammoth just for David’s posts alone, for sure – but the comments (and the commenters) have become very dear to me over the last couple of years!
On the same note, just as I was about to type this, I read Alan’s and VP’s exchange above, and for some reason I cannot stop smiling at this:
Please never change, Mr Robertshaw 🙂
@hapnadsmannen
Thx for the link, but I don’t really see how it’s as extreme as the MGTOW post. The author never suggests killing all men, just says that it would be easy to survive them all dieing. (I think she’s underestimating the amount of chaos that would follow losing half our population, but in the long run she is correct.)
The rest of it is not that bizarre.
She says that men are naturally inferior and violent, MGTOWs insist that women are naturally inferior.
She argues that women would be safer if they never associated with men. Based on the rape, abuse, and murder statistics, that is probably true.
She thinks women should go their own way. MGTOWS think men should go their own way.
I admit I just skimmed it though, did I miss something more extreme?
I think it rather says a lot about MGTOWs really. They find a years old post from a TERF arguing that women should go their own way, and they respond by suggesting genocide and slavery.
Also, I wouldn’t read much into the comments being all positive. Presumably they’re moderated.
The response to this guy’s post is a gem:
So far, so good.
Whoa. What feminist are you speaking of? The original poster (a lesbian separatist) says nothing of the sort. She does, however, say this:
Possibly the female version of MGTOW has hurt your feelings. Too bad.
Oh yeah, that Milo quote fits any occasion.
Again, the original poster says nothing about “cum farms.” That’s your fevered imagination talking.
@Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Like I said last page they are projecting their femdom male-slavery fantasies onto the Glorious Feminist Motherland you represent.
The Motherland of course prides itself on the intersectinal equality of all sexes and genders as well as bodily autonomy.
“If tomorrow all men fell down and were dead, the biggest problem would be the stink” sounds rather hateful.
Also when she writes “Sperm banks would enable the surviving women to bring just enough men into the world to stock up the banks again. There would be far less people on earth, but they would live in peace” implicitly what she says is that all pregnant women should do a sex test and abort all male fetus (except a very few chosen future sperm providers), whether they want to or not, or else how could that order be maintained?
But no it´s not AS bizarre as the MGTOW post , and you are right presumably she only lets through commenters that agree with her.
Yeah, it is hateful. I guess I was just expecting it to be a bit more explicit.
Okay, which one of you idiots gave Immortan Joe an internet connection?