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He-Babies lash out at the new She-Ra, bravely defend the white race and cartoon ladies with huge gazongas

The original She-Ra and her oversized breast … plate

By David Futrelle

So the guys who get mad about imaginary tiddies are mad about imaginary tiddies again — or, rather, the lack of them. This time they’re mad about the lack of huge gazongas in Netflix’s reboot of She Ra, the 1980’s He-Man spinoff that none of these dudes ever watched in the first place either because they weren’t born yet or because it was a show for, ick, girls.

But now that the reboot’s showrunner, Noelle Stevenson, has posted art of the new (less busty) She-Ra and her (less busty) Princesses of Power, the He-Babies have suddenly decided that Western Civilization is at stake — and that the original She-Ra’s ample cleavage must be defended at all costs.

Here are the new character designs that have caused all the commotion:

(You can see comparisons of the old and new characters here.)

Some critics of the He-Baby movement have suggested that these guys are angry because they won’t be able to fap to a kids’ cartoon any more. But I don’t think that’s it, at least not for most of these guys. (I imagine that most dudes with an 80’s-cartoon-lady fetish would do much better, fap-wise, with Jessica Rabbit or that one gal in the Heavy Metal movie.)

But it’s also not about the art. She-Ra, like He-Man, was pretty shitty, art-wise, with crudely drawn characters and laughably minimal animation; whatever you think of the character design, the art for the new show is a lot more sophisticated.

So what are these dudes mad about? Having read through several hundred comments on the “controversy” posted on Reddit’s KotakuInAction subreddt, it’s pretty clear that for some of them, it really is about the tiddies: the female characters in the reboot, in addition to looking a lot younger than the originals, are also notably less busty.

Some of the complainers were pretty upfront about their boob fetishes. (Click on screenshots to see the comments in context on Reddit.)

Fateless- 3 points 2 days ago Wow, they cut off She-Ra's breasts.HelloTosh 34 points 2 days ago DO NOBODY GOT TITS NO MORE, GOD DAMN
lemskroob 50 points 2 days ago they all got mastectomies. Even the one they fattened up. They draw women like road cones.

Others were slightly less direct, complaining that the female characters in the reboot all “look like men” — with some complainers throwing some open transphobia into the mix.

Klaus73 5 points 2 days ago She puts the "He" is She-ra

Yanrogue 141 points 2 days ago they all look like a guy dressing like a girl. Wide shoulders no hips, no breast. It just looks weird

Hamakua 1 point 2 days ago The shera character (herself?) has a conventionally masculine jaw/face for animation. It looks like a boy with a crew cut with a taped on wig behind that. It might just be the still image but "that's a man baby." Forehead doesn't help neither does the muscularly defined upper torso, male proportions, and total lack of breast volume in the figure. Is She-ra supposed to be a transgender character this iteration? I wrote this elsewhere but deleted it and put it here because it fits your question better.

 

Aurondarklordunwoke bluepilled shapeshifting reptoid 3 points 1 day ago No, it doesn't. This is bad art, and it looks nothing like She-Ra, an already existing character with an already existing appearance, an appearance that has never involved armor, if that's even what this is. They just gave her the body of a man, no breasts, no hips, and the distinctive V shaped torso considered desirable in males, while also masculinizing her clothing, and simultaneously feminizing Bow. It looks like shit, and it looks like there's an agenda behind it.

And there’s the rub. The He-Babies see the smaller breasts less as a problem in themselves — there are plenty of other busty female superheroes to fetishize — than as a symbol of the new showrunner’s “agenda,” which the He-Babies (and their few female allies) see as an distinctly untasty mélange of feminism, trans advocacy, and pro-fat-activism.

Aurondarklordunwoke bluepilled shapeshifting reptoid 195 points 2 days ago We've known this for a long time now, "feminism against femininity" is very much a thing. They hate women being feminine, they hate men being masculine, they think everything is a social construct and imagine some kind of weird androgynous future for humanity where they can "smash the patriarchy" by somehow erasing sexual dimorphism.

kingcheezit 56 points 2 days ago Young girls are being stripped of more and more positive role models to aspire to. Its all about letting yourself turn in to a fat sad sack and getting a blue rinse and being fucking miserable, rather than looking after yourself and being the best you can be.

Some saw a more specific agenda — an attempt by the lesbian showrunner to fill a cartoon world with characters who look just like her (and that maybe she wants to fuck).  Yep: while some of the He-Babies are complaining that the main characters are being desexualized, others are insinuating that they are being re-sexualized in a creepy lesbian pedophile way.

-TheOutsid3r- 47 points 1 day ago If you take established characters who very much do not fit what you like. Then change every single last of them to appeal to your own tastes. Which just so happen to be androgynous young girls, a look you yourself are trying to achieve. Then yes, you are both sexualizing them AND doing so in a way that only appeals to a niche group that shares your interests.

Aurondarklordunwoke bluepilled shapeshifting reptoid 31 points 1 day ago Yep. These people can never separate their fetishes from their politics, they can never just admit when they're making something they're into instead of dressing it up in the language of self-righteousness to make their wants sound more important than other people's. And quite frankly, if they didn't think this were a tool for pushing their agenda, and just something they wanted to do because they enjoyed it, you wouldn't see the social justice press lining up lockstep to stop all criticism of it.

But these dark insinuators aren’t the only ones who think it’s somehow nefarious  that the new characters are teenagers. In their mind,  it shows that those in charge of this show for children are coming for … our children?

TheOutsid3r- 37 points 1 day ago In a way it's a necessity for them to do so too. If you look at many of the old left, the 68 student movement, various activists and protestors. Most of them never had children themselves, many of them are outright antinatalist. So they have to recruit other peoples children, have to go into the schools and universities and try to indoctrinate them. permalinkembedunsaveparentreportgive goldreply [–]md1957[S] 19 points 1 day ago I get your point. In a sense, it's their way of passing on their ideology and mindsets, creating new "children" in their image. In that way, they seem to be hoping, they could become as gods be immortal.

For others, the real problem isn’t that the show is aimed at kids; it;s that it’s also aimed at adults, as part of an insidious plot to keep them in a perpetual state of arrested development.

MazInger-Z 9 points 2 days ago To keep them mentally and emotionally arrested in their teens when they are 27. So they don't give adult a second thought until it is thrust upon them and they'll vote for anyone willing to take responsibility from them so they can go back to being 14.

One surprisingly large subset of the complainers seemed to be less bothered by the breast-reductions of the female characters than they were about the decision to transform the show’s main male character, Bow, from an overdeveloped, mustachioed white man into a black teenager.

And while I didn’t see any of the commenters on Reddit explicitly calling this “white genocide,” well, it wasn’t hard to tell that some of them sort of wished they could, and were biting their tongues only because Internet Nazis have learned that using the g-word about race-swapped cartoon characters and interracial couples in tv commercials makes them look like the hysterical racists they like to deny that they are.

PadaV4 198 points 2 days ago And white good guy got brownified. I guess white males are not allowed to be the good guys.

For some, the fact that the original white character was a redhead made it somehow even more white-genocidey. (Never mind that showrunner Stevenson is herself a ginger.)

CoffeechipmunkLOBSTERS!?! 25 points 2 days ago Ginger washing is a thing! Gingers always get turned black.amy_vanhym 27 points 2 days ago Don't forget April O'Neil. Redheads are the whitest (most emblematic) of Europeans, so they get blacktarred the most. If this trend isn't driven by genuine racial hatred I'll eat my username.

Yes, the person who refers to switching a character from white to black as “blacktarring” is accusing others of racism.

It’s no coincidence that the most vehement complaints about the new She-Ra can be found on KotakuInAction, the former GamerGate hub on Reddit that has kept on with its defacto GamerGating despite the original movement’s disappearance from the headlines, with its focus widening to comics and movies and TV shows as well as games.

But even by KotakuInAction standards this reaction is extreme. The standard GamerGate/KotakuInAction complaint is that eeeevil females and other so-called SJWs are invading the sacred male spaces of video games, comic books, Ghostbuster movies. (Granted, none of these spaces actually “belong” to men, but these guys have convinced themselves they do.)

But She-Ra? This was a show from the 80s aimed at girls, and watched by girls. These guys can’t even pretend it “belongs” to them. So they come up with other excuses to get mad about it. Hence the talk about female “role models” and supposedly insidious SJW/feminist/lesbian/trans agendas. Because god forbid a female superhero not be shaped like Barbie.

So why do these guys care about She-Ra’s cartoon boobs so much? Because it’s not about cartoon women; it’s about real women. As one game designer put it on Twitter:

Yep. GamerGate — and the amorphous cultural backlash that followed it — was always about reinforcing traditional gender roles and restricting the range of what is considered appropriately feminine. The girls in the She-Ra reboot are feminine; they’re just a different kind of feminine, one that doesn’t cater to the male gaze.  These are characters that a lot of girls can identify with, not idealized versions of one narrow and conventional kind of femininity.

Angry He-Babies: this show is mot for you. It never was for you. Leave it the hell alone.

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ellesar
ellesar
3 years ago

As a large breasted woman I welcome a ‘flat’ She Ra. IRL having large breasts is a bit of a nightmare and the only way to avoid unwanted attention is to wear extremely large cover ups.

I looked up April O Neil, and there are pages and pages of white women dressed as her, and quite a few animations of her, all white looking, so as usual white racists reacting to something that doesn’t appear to even exist.

Kobun37
Kobun37
3 years ago

The April from the original comics looked a LOT like Cher. When she appeared on the cover she usually had a light brown complexion.

comment image

Marshmallow Stacy Maximal
Marshmallow Stacy Maximal
3 years ago

@ Nequam – thank you! No excuse needed.

That takes me back. Pogoing in a bin bag, and dyeing my friend’s hair blue with food dye… except it stuck because she’d previously peroxided it.

Saint Podkayne
Saint Podkayne
3 years ago

I’m not mad about the new She-Ra or anything and I know squat about animation, but I do remember as a kid that I really liked how serious, or even downright severe, the women in She-Ra and He-Man looked all the time. They looked like adults to me, REAL adults, and I’m actually surprised to learn today most of them were supposed to be teenagers.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
3 years ago

Off-topic (… so early inna morning…)

op-ed from the “intellectual dark web” (Washington Post)… some igno-right moron defending the white supremacist idea of rolling back birthright citizenship….

… and yet they eternally cry that mainstream media doesn’t give the bigot base any air time… yeah, right….

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
3 years ago

@Weird Eddie

You know the 10 Steps to Genocide? That proposal, if enacted, is a major fucking step. Scary.

I also noted that Anton wasn’t shy about his motives: he’s afraid that children of immigrants won’t vote Republican (and why would they, given how obviously anti-immigrant the GOP is) so its pretty much a white supremacist asking for a power grab at the expense of millions.

Scumbag.

Cyberwulf
Cyberwulf
3 years ago

April O’Neil in the Mirage comics was white. The frizzy hair is an 80s big hair style, and the character says so herself (telling the TMNT that she went to a New Wave salon). However all the people whining that April is black now can STFU, because through all the incarnations of the TMNT only two things about April have remained consistent:

1) Her name is April O’Neil.

2) She’s a friend of the TMNT.

That’s IT. Her age, occupation, backstory, fighting ability, connection to the TMNT’s origin, even her humanity have all changed over the comics, cartoons and movies. I’ll wager nobody crying about ‘gingercide’ complained that in the last cartoon April was a genetically engineered teenager who was immune to mutagen and had psychic powers.

K.
K.
3 years ago

The he-babies are whining about Glimmer being plus-sized too.

Katamount
Katamount
3 years ago

I’m not mad about the new She-Ra or anything and I know squat about animation, but I do remember as a kid that I really liked how serious, or even downright severe, the women in She-Ra and He-Man looked all the time. They looked like adults to me, REAL adults, and I’m actually surprised to learn today most of them were supposed to be teenagers.

This pretty much sums it my feelings on the whole thing. Although I am a little… ambivalent about the art style. Granted I didn’t watch either show back then, nor will I watch this now, so my opinion doesn’t really mean jack, but this design looks a lot like a fusion of the Avatar art style with a hint of the CalArt style of Steven Universe. I never really liked either one.

But that’s personal taste. From a guy who admittedly had zero investment. I was never the audience. These guys gnashing their teeth as if they were somehow lifelong fans of She-Ra: Princess of Power fans is just hilarious. I remember something very similar when that godawful Jem And The Holograms film came out. We all remember Jordan Owen, that creepy bathtub weirdo who made The Sarkeesian Effect? I remember he was livid about how much of a betrayal that film was (although part of it was probably him failing his audition to do the music for it).

And all I could think was… wait, you watched that show? Dude, you’re younger than me and I was too young to remember it! I couldn’t help but get one of those “false nostalgia” vibes from it, like he watched them as an adult and thought Jerrica was hot and became obsessed with it to the point that since it originated from the mid-80s, he may have half-remembered some reference to it from childhood and filled in the rest. I mean, I remember watching a Sailor Moon episode or two, but I’m not going to backfill a deeper nostalgic connection upon revisiting the series in my 30s.

Actually, along that same track… I find the whole idea of fandom to be a kind of off-putting thing in general. Even the more culturally accepted ones, like sports teams or music groups. It’s just… bizarre to me to be so attached to a product or person or group of people that you get your face painted or wear an elaborate costume or howl at the top of your lungs. And this is coming from one of those sorta Aspie-types that is fascinated by the minutiae of the things he likes. I own a copy of the Sharpe Companion, that’s how much into Sharpe I am. But I don’t go around dressed like I’m a member of the 95th Rifle regiment circa 1809.

*shrug* Could just be my aversion to crowds and noise.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

finding out in high school that one of my good male friends had me listed in his phone as “Tits” really did a number on me back in the day.

Ugh. I can’t count the number of times people have described me as “the one with the big boobs.”

Once your breast size goes past maybe a C or D cup, all anyone sees is boobs, I guess.

pitshade
pitshade
3 years ago

I seem to remember hearing that the original animations were rotoscoped with bodybuilders using exagerated movements. Regardless, it always seemed Uncanny Valley to me.

Weatherwax
Weatherwax
3 years ago

Off topic, so feel free to ignore, but my memory and google have collectively let me down.

I’m writing what is rapidly turning into an essay in response to an old friend’s FB post where she seems to be swallowing parts of the TERF narrative whole. While being relatively ignorant on the subject, I’m trying to be a good ally and tackle this myself, rather than making trans and NB folk deal with it (and give her the impression that what she’s saying is ok and feminist).

I want to discuss with her a cartoon I saw a while back. It was by a trans woman who had a job that was something to do with cameras (memory, aargh!) and she was sharing her experience of her treatment in work before and after she transitioned. I could have sworn I bookmarked it, but nope!

Could anyone point me in the right direction? I’m already mining Everyday Feminism and I’m going to suggest she reads Cordelia Fine’s excellent books (which, while not directly about transgender issues, will hopefully help with this whole biology thing – plus they’re really enjoyable reads, as Fine has a sardonic wit and isn’t afraid to use it). Any other tips for resources welcome.

Regardless of whether I actually share it with her, I’m finding it useful in refining my thinking so I’ll know in future what I want to say beyond “people are people, why does that bother you?”.

Thanks.

Schnookums Von Ghostface Fancypants Killer
Schnookums Von Ghostface Fancypants Killer
3 years ago

Yeah, it’s amazing how many misogynistic dudebros suddenly are coming out of the woodwork as being secret She-Ra fans. Orrrrrrr they’re filthy goddamn liars who are just using this to attack the ESS-JAY-WUBBLEWS. Which means it must be a day ending in “Y”

(Not that I’m saying that you have to consume a media product to criticize these sorts of changes, not that their criticisms are in any way legit. But when a lot of their identity is tied up in “Women invading our boys only club and Cultural Marxisming the hell out of stuff we like” it’s pretty rich that they feel perfectly okay with doing the same to media aimed at groups that aren’t them.)

pitshade
pitshade
3 years ago

Nonsense! All media is aimed at them! 😉

Moggie
Moggie
3 years ago

As a fully accredited nerd, I hate nerd gatekeeping so much. “This is ours, you’re not allowed to touch it” is bad enough when the gatekeepers genuinely value the thing in question. But when it’s something which, in truth, they probably formerly looked down on, or ignored entirely? Fuck that noise.

QuantumInc
QuantumInc
3 years ago

I got into a brief youtube comments argument over a video complaining about “Thundercats: Roar” which seems to be a new parody of the old show. The video-essay blamed “SJWs” and “Post-modernism”. I agreed that “Thundercats: Roar” seemed bad, but the video doesn’t really establish the connection to SJWs. The video creator replied to my comment, and I but ultimately didn’t have anything better than “If you can’t see what I see then you are blind!” (heavily paraphrased). I think what he wanted to say is that SJWs have made people cynical about things, including the original Thundercats. Which is technically true sometimes. Obviously progressive want people to think critically and to de-construct and to question media, norms, and institutions, which I guess could lead to terrible parodies…

Eventually I left a comment complaining about people complaining about SJWs and getting it wrong, as if they live in an alternate reality. A week later I looked at his final comment and left one pointing out how we ironically share a similar frustration: the feeling that the other guy is stuck in their own deluded bubble and we can’t reach them.

My theory is that these people consider the version of nerd culture they are most familiar with to be sacred and untouchable; thus criticism is blasphemy. They have an identity based around “nerd” media and so criticism and change feels like a personal attack.

faerie_bard
faerie_bard
3 years ago

I admit to being a fan of the old show, and while I think the original definitely has problems/didn’t age very well, it still holds some nostalgia value for me.

I’m glad to see that they have diversified the characters for the remake. Hopefully the stories and writing for the new show will be a lot better too (And it’s likely that the new Glimmer won’t be a total ditz, like the original was!) I’m sure it helps that they don’t have to frame the whole show around selling toys, like the original He-man and She-ra were.

I’m going to bet that most of the guys screaming about “SJWs!!” never really watched the original. Or, if they did, they never really paid attention to the messages it was trying to send.

PocketNerd
PocketNerd
3 years ago

I am sorely tempted to troll KotakuInAction with “Hey, I thought you creepy incels LIKED whacking it to girls too young to have breasts yet. Or does that only apply to Japanese animation?”

Freemage
Freemage
3 years ago

left_wing_fox
July 20, 2018 at 12:00 am

@Freemage: Less lines and detail means more animation.

Watch any of the old Filmation cartoons, you’ll see the same stock run cycle traced over again and again. Reused animation constantly, limited action sequences. The simpler line art is what allows modern cartoons to have the kind of action scenes you see in Avatar and Voltron.

You might be right about that, but I did a side-by-side of those stills against some from Avatar, and I’m still seeing greater polish on the latter–cloth folds more realistically, shading is more organic. Of course, it might also not be totally fair to compare virtually anything to A:tLA. It’s like shouting, “Hey, you ain’t Mozart, so [bleep] off!” at a concert.

It’s also possible that, since these are preliminary releases, the final product will be more polished and with a bit more depth.

And the character designs, as I’ve said, are still infinitely better than their predecessors. Betting the writing will be better than an 80s cartoon, too. (They weren’t all bad, in retrospect, but they ain’t hard to beat, either.)

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
3 years ago
Who?
Who?
3 years ago

I think any comment that uses SJW and believes that is somethink else than an constructed insult, is not worth reading.

About the chance, I, too have problem to switch from the old form to the new, (I miss every old doctor for example) but if the material is good than I can acept the chance. (I normally need somethink more than a few pics to get me)

And the original She-Ra was in the 80s, nobody takes that away from them.
There is nostalgica that doesn’t hurt (I can say that I think originals are mostly better than coversong for example) and there is that.
Sorry I doubt many of those guys above are fans.

Nequam
Nequam
3 years ago

@PocketNerd: there is a disconcerting tendency in anime to give female characters ages that seem rather younger than they should be given their physical development. (Or, more likely, supposedly the right age but with the disconcerting combo of really stacked + childlike face.)

And then there’s Eiken, but that’s its own special fuckery.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
3 years ago

@ Victorius Parasol

OT: Lordy, there are tapes.

yaaayyyyy!! Takes me back to the declining days of Nixon… when we heard the same phrase used!!!

Michael Brew
Michael Brew
3 years ago

I saw the sudden outbreak of She-Ra hate show up on my Twitter feed and mentioned on my Tumblr dash last week. Personally, I saw a little She-Ra when I was younger and enjoyed it as much as I would any cartoon, though my heart belonged to TMNT at the time. Probably saw about as much He-Man, as well. I did like the He-Man reboot a lot when I was in high school, though.

One of the comments that got me, though, was one guy who said that the ability for kids to distinguish between a male and female is a fundamental aspect of character design, and I was like… what? I got my BFA in art with a special interest in comics/illustration and I don’t remember that being a thing. Where are your priorities, really, when you think if a kid can’t tell if a character has a penis or a vagina you should scrap the whole thing?

Anyway, I’m actually kind of excited to watch it with my 2 1/2 year old, whose name she happens to share with the main character. Purely by coincidence; I forgot what She-Ra’s real name was until I Google searched what we decided to name our child to see who else might have the same name.

faerie_bard
faerie_bard
3 years ago

I admit to being a fan of the old show, and while I think the original definitely has problems/didn’t age very well in some cases, it still holds some nostalgia value for me.

I’m personally not 100% sold on the new art style. (It looks a bit too over simplified to me, I guess? Probably easier to animate though, so there will be a trade-off there.)

That being said, I’m glad to see that they have diversified the characters for the remake, both in body size and ethnicity. In the original show, most of the reoccurring female characters looked like adult super models with pretty much exactly the same body type. Madame Razz is one of the few exceptions. Netossa is the only woman of color I remember on the old show, and she is only in a handful of episodes. The original has diversity issues, for sure.

Hopefully the stories and writing for the new show will be a lot better too. It sounds like the new series is in good hands with Noelle Stevenson. I’ll probably check it out, even though I’m really older than the target demographic now, lol.

I’m going to bet that most of the guys screaming about “SJWs!!” never really watched the original at all. Or, if they did, they never really paid attention to the messages it was trying to send. For its time, it really had some fairly progressive messages. (Even though it also had its flaws!)

*Sigh* Getting tired of asshole dudes coming out of the woodwork to yell and complain and scream “SJWs ruined it AAAAAAALLLLL!” every time a remake that doesn’t 100% pander to them gets made.

KindaSortaHarmless
KindaSortaHarmless
3 years ago

@Nequam:

My personal hypotheses are that the moe boom of the 2000’s (?) has blurred the lines between cute and sexy, and that Japanese culture’s emphasis on cuteness (and related innocence and purity) has combined with the obsessive/possessive behavior of a fandom defined by stereotypes of losers unable to get women to date them.

Or something. Basically, I think your second choice is the more likely one, and that Japanese cultural values of cuteness are related to it.

Fluffy Spider Returns
Fluffy Spider Returns
3 years ago

There’s also a level of creepiness considering in this new reboot she’s like 12.
They want a young girl to be sexy for their gaze
Noooooooooope
Noooooooooooooooope

On a side note finally a character who does shorts under a skirt so I don’t feel abnormal

faerie_bard
faerie_bard
3 years ago

ack double post, sorry

Richard Smith
Richard Smith
3 years ago

Back in the day, I was always more into Thundarr the Barbarian. If they did a remake of that, I honestly don’t know how I’d react if they reduced the breasts on Ookla the Mok.

Juniper
Juniper
3 years ago

I was definitely a She-Ra fan back in the 80’s, but then again I was also in kindergarten when that show was on, so I really don’t remember much about the show itself. I do remember my friend who lived down the street had a suit of pink plastic She-Ra armor that came with a crown and a pink plastic sword, and I thought that was SO COOL and wanted to borrow it all the time when I was at her house.

I probably liked She-Ra because she was a warrior woman, and I was a tomboy who liked female characters who could kick ass (and still am), and there weren’t that many around during the 80’s, and 80’s toys and cartoons were very gender-segregated, so I was happy when they came out with a female version of He-Man so I could get in on the ass kicking action too.

So what kind of role model do these guys want She-Ra to be for little girls? And what kind of role model do they want her to be that requires her to have big boobs?

Clearly they don’t want She-Ra to encourage girls to be warriors or tomboys, so the only thing I can think of is they somehow think a cartoon character with big boobs will encourage girls to be more sexy. Which is creepy because I didn’t even know what sex was yet when I used to watch this show. I mean, this was the age where I was also watching Sesame Street and Mr. Rogers Neighborhood. And it’s not like a TV show can encourage girls to grow bigger boobs when they reach puberty, since I didn’t. That’s kind of a genetic thing.

Ugh, next these guys are going to start sexualizing Peppa Pig or something.

Katherine the Adequate
Katherine the Adequate
3 years ago

Surplus, sorry about the late reply. I guess I was referring to the idea that large breasts and other body parts pleasing to incels are the only qualities that make women good role models. Never would women’s minds be considered.

Nanny Oggs Busom
Nanny Oggs Busom
3 years ago

Way back when… My sisters and I were fans of He-man and She-Ra (and Thundercats). They were adults in a cartoon for children; it looks like this new incarnation is about children, in a cartoon for children.

I’ll say that again, children in a children’s cartoon. I’d say that I’m surprised that they’re complaining that animated young teenagers aren’t ‘fit’ enough for them, don’t have big enough breasts or show enough leg, but these creeps don’t surprise me anymore. Appall, disgust, make me want to find Vetinari’s scorpion pit and throw them in with the mimes, but not surprise.

Sylvia Daniella Foxglove
Sylvia Daniella Foxglove
3 years ago

Honestly, I dont have much problem with the art style. Lots of things we used to take for granted in animation has changed, budgets are somewhat smaller, and the main target audience I’d people way younger than me. However, the best Science Fiction and Fantasy stuff still ends up on animation, no matter where. America, Korea, Japan, and other places. I really enjoyed She-Ra as a kid, much more than He-Man, but as a budding trans femme egg, I was always looking to women as role models. Incels and Gamergaters just want everything to be for them, and cant stand when something isn’t for them. Heck, I avoid most Steven Universe fanboards for just that reason, and it’s my favourite show on TV. Diversity behind the animation, diversity on the cartoon. And then there’s Craig of the Creek, Ok Ko, created by one of my favourite webcomic people back in the 2000s…Summer Camp Island… So cute… I’m just saying, I’ve been watching cartoons forever, and in my opinion, they’ve gotten better, for the most part.

Michael Brew
Michael Brew
3 years ago

@Juniper

Ugh, next these guys are going to start sexualizing Peppa Pig or something.

Never test Rule 34 of the Internet, you poor innocent soul.

Button
Button
3 years ago

@Weatherwax,

While I don’t know the cartoon you’re referring to (sorry), you might consider exposing your friend to ContraPoints. She started her YouTube channel when she was still in denial about her gender identity, and has continued making videos through her realization and transition.

In particular I recommend her video on autogynephilia, a transphobic theory about why trans women transition. She explains, dissects, and debunks the theory, and gives a moving account of her own sexuality before, during, and after her transition. https://youtu.be/6czRFLs5JQo

Weatherwax
Weatherwax
3 years ago

Button, many thanks. I’ll give it a look.

PocketNerd
PocketNerd
3 years ago

ContraPoints is so, sooo good. Highly recommended.

Fabe
Fabe
3 years ago

So would any one here or any where else care if they went with the original glamazon look? I’m thinking no one would

Lunetta
Lunetta
3 years ago

they draw women like road cones

is the comment that has me most baffled. I don’t understand what that is supposed to mean???

Michael Brew
Michael Brew
3 years ago

@Lunetta

That one’s easy. They’re saying that a fat woman with no breasts would be large at the base and taper up like a cone shape. I think it’s usually known as pear shaped.

faerie_bard
faerie_bard
3 years ago

@Fabe: the people crying “But the SJWs!!1!!” and “What about her boooooobs!?!” the loudest would probably find something else to complain about, then. Like “Well, the writing is full of SJW influence!!!” or something, probably. (I’ve seen a few ‘fretting’ over the showrunner’s sexual orientation, like heaven forbid that a lesbian get to run a show!) I’m sure it would be something. *sigh*

I’ve seen some pretty nasty and trans-phobic comments about her new design. It’s really gross. The really sad/pathetic part is that most of the loudest complainers probably never really intended to watch the show anyway. *rolls eyes*

I’d personally think it would be a step backward to just re-do the “glamazon” look of the 80s. It’s more realistic to have a wider variety of body types in a show. I’d say modern kids are used to more sophisticated animated shows than back in my day, and that they expect that kind of thing. Also better storytelling and more character development and character growth. I think those things are what really make a good show, tbh.

The original He-man and She-ra both, when it boils down to it, were meant to sell toys. I think that’s one of the big reasons behind the body-type sameness in both shows, so they could re-use the same base toy models over and over again. (That and the low budget forced them to take artistic shortcuts.) The Netflix version doesn’t have those restrictions to deal with, thank goodness! They can deviate from the original! If you’re going to just re-hash the same thing, then why bother?

In the end, I may like the new version, or I may not, and that’s OKAY! I’m sure plenty of others will enjoy it, though. There’s a lot of fan-art being made already, so clearly at least some people LOVE the new look!

Fabe
Fabe
3 years ago

@faerie_bard

My money would be on them complaining that it would be impossible for women who looks like a super models to be able to fight or do anything else but look pretty and maybe make sandwiches .

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
3 years ago

@Fluffy Spider Returns

On a side note finally a character who does shorts under a skirt so I don’t feel abnormal

*solidarity fist-bump*
I always wear shorts or leggings under skirts and dresses, without fail. Comfy but also practical. I seriously hate feeling vulnerable, too (same reason I always wear flat shoes).

faerie_bard
faerie_bard
3 years ago

*channels Madame Razz*

“Oh, dearie my, that’s easy!
Razzle Dazzle, Doozle Danwich,
Make these guys into a sandwich!”

*POOF*

calmdown
calmdown
3 years ago

@faerie_bard

The original He-man and She-ra both, when it boils down to it, were meant to sell toys.

Yes, actually Netflix has another series called The Toys That Made Us which has an entire episode about the history of He-Man. In fact, it seems some of the men who designed the toys blamed She-Ra when the He-Man toys stopped selling well. They basically said (I’m paraphrasing of course) that they thought that little boys didn’t think He-Man was cool anymore once they saw GIRLS playing with a similar toy (there are women in our “spaces!” oh noes!) So, original She-Ra got some undeserved hate as well.

I’ve seen a few ‘fretting’ over the showrunner’s sexual orientation

I saw more straight up bashing/hating.

PocketNerd
PocketNerd
3 years ago

Thus spake Zaracalmdown:

Yes, actually Netflix has another series called The Toys That Made Us which has an entire episode about the history of He-Man. In fact, it seems some of the men who designed the toys blamed She-Ra when the He-Man toys stopped selling well. They basically said (I’m paraphrasing of course) that they thought that little boys didn’t think He-Man was cool anymore once they saw GIRLS playing with a similar toy (there are women in our “spaces!” oh noes!) So, original She-Ra got some undeserved hate as well.

Yikes. Our society starts training in that fragile masculinity and male entitlement early, doesn’t it?

calmdown
calmdown
3 years ago

I’m hoping that the young boys were innocent and the adult men were projecting their insecurities, but that might be overly optimistic.

faerie_bard
faerie_bard
3 years ago

I saw more straight up bashing/hating.

Yes definitely that too, alas. The ‘fretting’ ones I saw were on one of the more “official” fan forums and were clearly trying to dance around that forum’s rules and whatnot. A couple guys in particular are being rather insufferable over there. One or two of them have quite a track record for this kind of thing. It’s stuff that would get them mocked and maybe banned here if they didn’t get the hint, but not QUITE enough to get the banhammer over there.

TreePerson
TreePerson
3 years ago

I like the new She-Ra design she is cute and her clothing looks comfortable and easy to move in (really important for a sword fighter).

Granted I’m a 90s kid so I missed the original but got SailorMoon and “Cardcaptors” for my women lead action cartoons.

@calmdown
I saw that one! And they even made She-Ra because girls liked He-Man toys so they made Andora and stuck her on another planet to minimize mixing of the genders or something.

Genjones
Genjones
3 years ago

She-ra is getting the Teen Titans treatment, so what’s the big screamin’ deal? Was the sky falling when Starfire wasn’t presented to kids in her ludicrous nipple armor?