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#gamergate alt-right anime nazis antifeminism baby men entitled babies gender policing men who should not ever be with imaginary women ever men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny

He-Babies lash out at the new She-Ra, bravely defend the white race and cartoon ladies with huge gazongas

The original She-Ra and her oversized breast … plate

By David Futrelle

So the guys who get mad about imaginary tiddies are mad about imaginary tiddies again — or, rather, the lack of them. This time they’re mad about the lack of huge gazongas in Netflix’s reboot of She Ra, the 1980’s He-Man spinoff that none of these dudes ever watched in the first place either because they weren’t born yet or because it was a show for, ick, girls.

But now that the reboot’s showrunner, Noelle Stevenson, has posted art of the new (less busty) She-Ra and her (less busty) Princesses of Power, the He-Babies have suddenly decided that Western Civilization is at stake — and that the original She-Ra’s ample cleavage must be defended at all costs.

Here are the new character designs that have caused all the commotion:

(You can see comparisons of the old and new characters here.)

Some critics of the He-Baby movement have suggested that these guys are angry because they won’t be able to fap to a kids’ cartoon any more. But I don’t think that’s it, at least not for most of these guys. (I imagine that most dudes with an 80’s-cartoon-lady fetish would do much better, fap-wise, with Jessica Rabbit or that one gal in the Heavy Metal movie.)

But it’s also not about the art. She-Ra, like He-Man, was pretty shitty, art-wise, with crudely drawn characters and laughably minimal animation; whatever you think of the character design, the art for the new show is a lot more sophisticated.

So what are these dudes mad about? Having read through several hundred comments on the “controversy” posted on Reddit’s KotakuInAction subreddt, it’s pretty clear that for some of them, it really is about the tiddies: the female characters in the reboot, in addition to looking a lot younger than the originals, are also notably less busty.

Some of the complainers were pretty upfront about their boob fetishes. (Click on screenshots to see the comments in context on Reddit.)

Fateless- 3 points 2 days ago Wow, they cut off She-Ra's breasts.HelloTosh 34 points 2 days ago DO NOBODY GOT TITS NO MORE, GOD DAMN
lemskroob 50 points 2 days ago they all got mastectomies. Even the one they fattened up. They draw women like road cones.

Others were slightly less direct, complaining that the female characters in the reboot all “look like men” — with some complainers throwing some open transphobia into the mix.

Klaus73 5 points 2 days ago She puts the "He" is She-ra

Yanrogue 141 points 2 days ago they all look like a guy dressing like a girl. Wide shoulders no hips, no breast. It just looks weird

Hamakua 1 point 2 days ago The shera character (herself?) has a conventionally masculine jaw/face for animation. It looks like a boy with a crew cut with a taped on wig behind that. It might just be the still image but "that's a man baby." Forehead doesn't help neither does the muscularly defined upper torso, male proportions, and total lack of breast volume in the figure. Is She-ra supposed to be a transgender character this iteration? I wrote this elsewhere but deleted it and put it here because it fits your question better.

 

Aurondarklordunwoke bluepilled shapeshifting reptoid 3 points 1 day ago No, it doesn't. This is bad art, and it looks nothing like She-Ra, an already existing character with an already existing appearance, an appearance that has never involved armor, if that's even what this is. They just gave her the body of a man, no breasts, no hips, and the distinctive V shaped torso considered desirable in males, while also masculinizing her clothing, and simultaneously feminizing Bow. It looks like shit, and it looks like there's an agenda behind it.

And there’s the rub. The He-Babies see the smaller breasts less as a problem in themselves — there are plenty of other busty female superheroes to fetishize — than as a symbol of the new showrunner’s “agenda,” which the He-Babies (and their few female allies) see as an distinctly untasty mélange of feminism, trans advocacy, and pro-fat-activism.

Aurondarklordunwoke bluepilled shapeshifting reptoid 195 points 2 days ago We've known this for a long time now, "feminism against femininity" is very much a thing. They hate women being feminine, they hate men being masculine, they think everything is a social construct and imagine some kind of weird androgynous future for humanity where they can "smash the patriarchy" by somehow erasing sexual dimorphism.

kingcheezit 56 points 2 days ago Young girls are being stripped of more and more positive role models to aspire to. Its all about letting yourself turn in to a fat sad sack and getting a blue rinse and being fucking miserable, rather than looking after yourself and being the best you can be.

Some saw a more specific agenda — an attempt by the lesbian showrunner to fill a cartoon world with characters who look just like her (and that maybe she wants to fuck).  Yep: while some of the He-Babies are complaining that the main characters are being desexualized, others are insinuating that they are being re-sexualized in a creepy lesbian pedophile way.

-TheOutsid3r- 47 points 1 day ago If you take established characters who very much do not fit what you like. Then change every single last of them to appeal to your own tastes. Which just so happen to be androgynous young girls, a look you yourself are trying to achieve. Then yes, you are both sexualizing them AND doing so in a way that only appeals to a niche group that shares your interests.

Aurondarklordunwoke bluepilled shapeshifting reptoid 31 points 1 day ago Yep. These people can never separate their fetishes from their politics, they can never just admit when they're making something they're into instead of dressing it up in the language of self-righteousness to make their wants sound more important than other people's. And quite frankly, if they didn't think this were a tool for pushing their agenda, and just something they wanted to do because they enjoyed it, you wouldn't see the social justice press lining up lockstep to stop all criticism of it.

But these dark insinuators aren’t the only ones who think it’s somehow nefarious  that the new characters are teenagers. In their mind,  it shows that those in charge of this show for children are coming for … our children?

TheOutsid3r- 37 points 1 day ago In a way it's a necessity for them to do so too. If you look at many of the old left, the 68 student movement, various activists and protestors. Most of them never had children themselves, many of them are outright antinatalist. So they have to recruit other peoples children, have to go into the schools and universities and try to indoctrinate them. permalinkembedunsaveparentreportgive goldreply [–]md1957[S] 19 points 1 day ago I get your point. In a sense, it's their way of passing on their ideology and mindsets, creating new "children" in their image. In that way, they seem to be hoping, they could become as gods be immortal.

For others, the real problem isn’t that the show is aimed at kids; it;s that it’s also aimed at adults, as part of an insidious plot to keep them in a perpetual state of arrested development.

MazInger-Z 9 points 2 days ago To keep them mentally and emotionally arrested in their teens when they are 27. So they don't give adult a second thought until it is thrust upon them and they'll vote for anyone willing to take responsibility from them so they can go back to being 14.

One surprisingly large subset of the complainers seemed to be less bothered by the breast-reductions of the female characters than they were about the decision to transform the show’s main male character, Bow, from an overdeveloped, mustachioed white man into a black teenager.

And while I didn’t see any of the commenters on Reddit explicitly calling this “white genocide,” well, it wasn’t hard to tell that some of them sort of wished they could, and were biting their tongues only because Internet Nazis have learned that using the g-word about race-swapped cartoon characters and interracial couples in tv commercials makes them look like the hysterical racists they like to deny that they are.

PadaV4 198 points 2 days ago And white good guy got brownified. I guess white males are not allowed to be the good guys.

For some, the fact that the original white character was a redhead made it somehow even more white-genocidey. (Never mind that showrunner Stevenson is herself a ginger.)

CoffeechipmunkLOBSTERS!?! 25 points 2 days ago Ginger washing is a thing! Gingers always get turned black.amy_vanhym 27 points 2 days ago Don't forget April O'Neil. Redheads are the whitest (most emblematic) of Europeans, so they get blacktarred the most. If this trend isn't driven by genuine racial hatred I'll eat my username.

Yes, the person who refers to switching a character from white to black as “blacktarring” is accusing others of racism.

It’s no coincidence that the most vehement complaints about the new She-Ra can be found on KotakuInAction, the former GamerGate hub on Reddit that has kept on with its defacto GamerGating despite the original movement’s disappearance from the headlines, with its focus widening to comics and movies and TV shows as well as games.

But even by KotakuInAction standards this reaction is extreme. The standard GamerGate/KotakuInAction complaint is that eeeevil females and other so-called SJWs are invading the sacred male spaces of video games, comic books, Ghostbuster movies. (Granted, none of these spaces actually “belong” to men, but these guys have convinced themselves they do.)

But She-Ra? This was a show from the 80s aimed at girls, and watched by girls. These guys can’t even pretend it “belongs” to them. So they come up with other excuses to get mad about it. Hence the talk about female “role models” and supposedly insidious SJW/feminist/lesbian/trans agendas. Because god forbid a female superhero not be shaped like Barbie.

So why do these guys care about She-Ra’s cartoon boobs so much? Because it’s not about cartoon women; it’s about real women. As one game designer put it on Twitter:

Yep. GamerGate — and the amorphous cultural backlash that followed it — was always about reinforcing traditional gender roles and restricting the range of what is considered appropriately feminine. The girls in the She-Ra reboot are feminine; they’re just a different kind of feminine, one that doesn’t cater to the male gaze.  These are characters that a lot of girls can identify with, not idealized versions of one narrow and conventional kind of femininity.

Angry He-Babies: this show is mot for you. It never was for you. Leave it the hell alone.

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Freemage
Freemage
3 years ago

I’ll admit that I like the art style (NOT the character designs) of the old series better. The new stuff seems a lot flatter (oh, goddammit, I’ve been trying for several seconds to come up with a different word, and failing miserably). It feels like some of the Netflix-exclusive anime that’s come out recently, actually–there’s just less linework in general, and that makes the characters less defined.

But yeah, the designs are so infinitely more awesome, for the most part. I’d like to see what the original artists would’ve come up with if given the basics of the new designs as their go-point. (One exception: I don’t think I care for EITHER She-Ra outfit design, though–jogging shorts don’t seem that much better for fighting. How about something that she can wear that won’t leave her knees all scuffed up from every fall?)

Naturally, all due scorn is to be heaped upon the KiA scumpuppies, because they really are quite pathetic.

Kivutar
Kivutar
3 years ago

“Yep. These people can never separate their fetishes from their politics, they can never just admit when they’re making something they’re into instead of dressing it up in the language of self-righteousness to make their wants sound more important than other people’s.”

So close.

So close.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Not that I particularly need or want the new She-Ra to have big boobs or anything, but can I just say something?

I hate how big boobs = sexualized character and small boobs = non-sexualized character.

Is it totally out of the realm of possibility to have a female character with large breasts that isn’t sexually objectified and with the primary character trait being boob jiggle?

Again, this isn’t addressed to this show in particular, just a pattern I’ve noticed. It reinforces the stereotype the only small breasted women can be taken seriously while large breasted women can only be sex objects. That’s actually harmful to women and girls who are large breasted as we are actually well rounded human beings that don’t exist solely as a vessel for boobage.

Okay. Rant over. I know that’s not the point of the post.

Moon Custafer
Moon Custafer
3 years ago

Most of the references I’ve seen to the new designs have been positive, but I noticed a guy on Facebook today, with a “just playing devil’s advocate” manner, give a potted history of Weird Tales magazine covers, Robert E. Howard, and Boris Vallejo, in order to argue that exaggerated physiques and revealing costumes are a *requirement* of the sword-and-sorcery genre, and if the animators had wanted to make characters without them they shouldn’t have rebooted She-Ra.
I decided my point of attack would be to remind him that Conan of Cimmeria dresses appropriately for the different locations he finds himself in (quite often he wears a pirate outfit) and that the fur-shorts-and-bare-chest look was standardized later.

Passagère clandestine
Passagère clandestine
3 years ago

They hate women being feminine, they hate men being masculine, they think everything is a social construct and imagine some kind of weird androgynous future for humanity where they can “smash the patriarchy” by somehow erasing sexual dimorphism.

For the best of two worlds, I would suggest them to google “Michel Angelo’s women”. Muscular men bodies grafted onto big women boobs.

Weasel-Rah
Weasel-Rah
3 years ago

I’m with you, WWTH- the complete absence of bustiness is just as unnatural as everyone having the Frank Frazetta Porportions that was the case in the old series. They’re just boobs, women have them. Even very young women. *Looks sadly at ten year old me hiding under giant sweatshirts*
Hard to tell much from a handful of screenshots though. It looks to me like they’re trying for Adventure Time style-but realistic. Good luck threading that needle!

Passagère clandestine
Passagère clandestine
3 years ago

(One exception: I don’t think I care for EITHER She-Ra outfit design, though–jogging shorts don’t seem that much better for fighting. How about something that she can wear that won’t leave her knees all scuffed up from every fall?)

Sir Terry said it best:

Now, there is a tendency at a point like this to look over one’s shoulder at the cover artist and start going on at length about leather, tightboots and naked blades.

Words like ‘full’, ‘round’ and even ‘pert’ creep into the narrative, until the writer has to go and have a cold shower and a lie down.

Which is all rather silly, because any woman setting out to make a living by the sword isn’t about to go around looking like something off the cover of the more advanced kind of lingerie catalogue for the specialized buyer.

Oh well, all right. The point that must be made is that although Herrena the Henna-Haired Harridan would look quite stunning after a good bath, a heavy-duty manicure, and the pick of the leather racks in Woo Hun Ling’s Oriental Exotica and Martial Aids on Heroes Street, she was currently quite sensibly dressed in light chain mail, soft boots, and a short sword.

All right, maybe the boots were leather. But not black.

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
3 years ago

Oh look, someone else is talking about those guys who bravely face the rigors of celibacy with barely any whining:

Incel Memes Aren’t a Joke
How playful propaganda can mask a dangerous and toxic culture.
By Christina Cauterucci
July 19, 20185:57 AM

Incel culture has flourished online, where like-minded men post unsigned messages on Reddit, 4chan, and incel message boards, describing their most sinister fantasies about worlds in which women are collected like tax dollars and redistributed for sex. These insular communities have developed an in-group lingo that’s tricky for outsiders to parse. When a community that’s highly anonymous, decentralized, and often contradictory becomes fodder for memes, which are easily stripped of their provenance and edit history, it becomes extremely difficult for observers to understand and contextualize what they’re seeing. Memes can provide crucial insight into what’s really going on in incel forums. They can also warp the truth. Whether a meme is a bit of primary-source incel doctrine, a hyperbolic riff on an in-joke, or a work of satire can be impossible to determine if you don’t spend hours a day steeping yourself in the native language of incel culture.

Yeah, I feel like I know way too much about these creepy creeps.

OTOH, knowledge is a good thing.

https://slate.com/human-interest/2018/07/incel-memes-like-millimeters-of-bone-and-virgin-vs-chad-mask-a-dangerous-and-toxic-culture.html

calmdown
calmdown
3 years ago

I’ve been hearing MRA’s say “b-but He-man!” and “Superheroes!” whenever anyone brought up female objectification. You’d think making the heavily muscled “Chad” body type into a much more normal looking body type would make them happy, but nothing makes them happy. Even if he was white, they’d probably call him a “Cuck” or a “Soyboy” for hanging out with She-ra.

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
3 years ago

I love JMS’ response to the whining fanboys:

https://twitter.com/straczynski/status/1019837340158607360

Bakunin
Bakunin
3 years ago

@Kivutar
Don’t forget the arrested development comment. So close indeed.

And if the new art style keeps the characters on model and better animated than the original, I call it a success.

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
3 years ago

Fan dudes: “I want to see only the giantest boobs in my cartoons”

Also fan dudes: “NO FAT CHICKS”

Well damn guys, what did you think breasts were mostly made of? Magic?

Saint-Somnia
Saint-Somnia
3 years ago

A little OT, but the art style for the reboot looks like Steven Universe art, which is a bit off putting for me cause me and SU aren’t on good terms right now.

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
3 years ago

Re the art. I definitely like the new art much better, especially that Bow fellow. New version is adorable, old version looks like the kind of man I’d be literally afraid to share space with (heart shirt be damned).

IDK. I should probably have more of an eye for the ditching of objectification, but like… It just really makes me happy to see male characters who AREN’T designed like invincible Hulk bouncers from Satan’s own pub chain. So tired of male invincibility shit and how it feeds into female helplessness/rescue/protection narratives.

calmdown
calmdown
3 years ago

@Saint-Somnia

I’ve heard a lot of online reactionaries refer to Steven Universe as some kind of horrible SJW propaganda. Might that be part of why these guys freaked out so hard, because of the similarity? Obviously their reasons for that reaction would be very different than yours.

Robert
Robert
3 years ago

Kat, ambassador etc., Thanks for sharing that link. I forgot one of the rules and looked at the comments.

Don’t look at the comments.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
3 years ago

@some_twitter_mra_ahole:

So they don’t give adult a second thought until it is thrust upon them and they’ll vote for anyone willing to take responsibility from them so they can go back to being 14.

Irony!

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
3 years ago

@Robert

Kat, ambassador etc., Thanks for sharing that link. I forgot one of the rules and looked at the comments.

Don’t look at the comments.

Thanks for the warning. Occasionally incels get a little rapey and a little homicidal.

Ariblester
Ariblester
3 years ago

sighs

Even the old vs. new comparison linked by David is editorializing in its captions:

The background art is the only thing worth its salt.

@Saint-Somnia

Yeah, I’m seeing shades of SU in this. Hope they don’t go the way of SU in making every single character off-model all the time.

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
3 years ago

@Cyborgette

Ain’t dude but…

I was gonna say “hopes and dreams” but magic works too :V

Katherine the Adequate
Katherine the Adequate
3 years ago

She-ra with huge gazongas is a “positive role model” for girls? K then. Glad they cleared that one up. Guess it’s time to scrub all that ridiculousness about female astronauts or doctors or, (certainly presidents) and such. Don’t want to put ideas into the future cis women’s heads.

Katherine the Adequate
Katherine the Adequate
3 years ago

Oh, and I didn’t know Nazis loved gingers. I thought they liked Teutonic blondes. Since I’m a ginger, I’m nervous now. Time to dye my hair.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
3 years ago

@Katherine:

Hold on — are you saying women cannot be a positive role model if they have large breasts? That seems … problematic.

epitome of incomprehensibility

In the clips I saw of the original, She-Ra’s design is more detailed, but her face seems hard to animate. To me, it looked like she hardly changes expressions. The characters’ new art style is less distinctive, perhaps what TV Tropes calls animesque, but it probably makes them easier to animate.

Anyway, the whining. There’s nothing wrong with a character having big boobs, but there’s nothing wrong with a character NOT having big boobs, either. Plus, art design can change across different versions of shows.

In short, these complaints? Making mountains out of molehills (so to speak).

epitome of incomprehensibility

@Surplus to Requirements – I think the idea was that women don’t NEED to have big breasts to be role models, since one of the complainers, kingcheezit, said melodramatically, “Young girls are being stripped of more and more positive role models to aspire to.”

I must admit I saw “young girls” and “being stripped” at first and thought of something worse, which shows either that 1) I’m morbid, or 2) I don’t expect misogynists to be non-creepy. (Probably both.)

Oh yes, and about the red hair thing: what?? How are black characters replacing white red-haired characters en masse? The only other time I remember that happening was in the latest Annie movie. And why is that a bad thing, unless you’re racist?

Also, red-haired people tend to have pale skin, but not exclusively. As an example, my cousin had a friend with dark skin and auburn hair – one of her parents was white and the other black. (I haven’t seen the girl since she was a kid, so her hair might have darkened.)

Kobun37
Kobun37
3 years ago

As a girl who grew up in the 80s and watched a lot of both He-Man and She-Ra, I don’t really care for the new character designs for reasons that have nothing to do with breasts. Art style aside…

The thing that gets me is both shows were heavy on morality themes. I won’t go into the reasons behind this, but the end result was the heroes in the shows had a lot of positive progressive traits and ideals. They helped people who needed it. They had integrity and inner strength. They put others before themselves, protected the weak, and some of the episodes had pro-environmental plots which was not really a thing back in the 80s. A line that stuck with me is He-Man telling Skeletor that true power comes from inside, from things like honor and courage.

These entitled shits probably couldn’t put another before themselves if their lives depended on it. How is it possible to miss the point so badly?

calmdown
calmdown
3 years ago

At the risk of sounding like a gatekeeper It would not surprise me to learn that most of them never watched the show(or are too young.) *Turns to face camera* Even though all of Season one is on NETFLIX right now!

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
3 years ago

It’s been hugely entertaining watching the tantrums over the last few days, I must say. A nice distraction from the sheer awfulness everywhere else.

Speaking of nice distractions, I have two for you all:

1. If you’re not already, follow Paris Zarcilla on Twitter (or just google if you hate Twitter; the story’s been picked up a lot). Last month he found a cat under his bed who’d had kittens and he’s now become the world’s most wonderful cat dad. His regular updates truly restore one’s faith in human nature.

2. I have started taking Mei-Mei out for walks, in her lil harness. Yesterday we took an evening stroll which was hugely exciting for her. Here’s a pic 🙂

http://i63.tinypic.com/2upzqti.jpg

Kobun37
Kobun37
3 years ago

It happens even with newer stuff, though. Emmett from the Lego Movie is clueless, but also kind, self-sacrificing and always tries to do the right thing because it is the right thing. The sequel trailer where a line hinted his female co-star didn’t get the credit she deserved sure brought out the MRAs in the YouTube comments. They’re like the Negaverse anti-Emmett.

I very much doubt that He-Man and She-Ra would approve of these people. They would be fighting against them. As for the closet Nazis, they wouldn’t have liked the original shows either since they had episodes that specifically focused on anti-racism and held up tolerance for and cooperation with those different from you.

And that comment that mentions April O’Neill is particularly moronic considering the TMNT cartoon was guilty of some pretty egregious whitewashing. The original April had frizzy afro-style black hair. The comic was B&W so it was hard to tell if she was African American or not, but it would not surprise me at all if she was mixed race. The original Baxter Stockman was definitely a black guy.

Bina
3 years ago

These man-sized poop-babies are mad because a cartoon character no longer has mega-cleavage, and they think it’s being done to keep the audiences in a state of arrested development?

Dude. You’re obsessing over a cartoon you watched as a kid. GET A FUCKING GRIP.

And look up the meaning of irony, too.

TheKND
TheKND
3 years ago

It’s probably the fact that I really liked the old She-Ra cartoon when I was little, but these designs seriously don’t do it for me. It kinda reminds me of the Masters of the Universe reboot in the 2010s where suddenly Adam and Teela were teenagers and it was really awkward, because the latter was supposed to be captain of the guard. Instead of being a badass lady-fighter, it suddenly felt like her dad got her the job…
Here, She-Ra kinda looks like a generic magical girl (and yes, she looked like a generic amazon in the old show, I realize that. But you know… why switch one generic for the other) and I especially dislike the new Panthra.
So yes, I have some criticism and that will now be used to bolster the shit that the asshole brigade lob. So much for discourse… I feel sad.

left_wing_fox
left_wing_fox
3 years ago

@Freemage: Less lines and detail means more animation.

Watch any of the old Filmation cartoons, you’ll see the same stock run cycle traced over again and again. Reused animation constantly, limited action sequences. The simpler line art is what allows modern cartoons to have the kind of action scenes you see in Avatar and Voltron.

Jane Done
Jane Done
3 years ago

@Passagère clandestine: Wow, Michelangelo’s eve is shredded! I’m a little jealous, not gonna lie.

Something I found while googling said women:

There are lots of questions that come up in every art history classroom. We hear them over and over again. What is art, really, and how can you define it? Why is the Mona Lisa smiling? What happened to the Winged Victory’s arms? And then there’s one that you’ll hear, or that you’ll even think yourself, especially if you are a fan or scholar of Renaissance art. Why, people ask. Why are Michelangelo’s women so… un-womanly?

It’s called manual labour you ignorant dipshit. I don’t even want to listen to the accompanying podcast that I just KNOW will be full of mansplaining biotruphushths and presentism (something historians lament about yet have a surprising blindspot for when it comes to reinforcing heteronormativity).

I’ve met many, many farmer women who spend their entire lives in shame because of how engaging in intense daily physical exercise since before puberty literally changed the way their bodies developed. It really makes you wonder if the way women are indoctrinated nowadays into treating their bodies as kids and teens, and pushed into pursuing the thin, frail, supple body shape is even remotely natural (that is, since being mostly sedentary long-term is unhealthy/unnatural for humans). Of course, not to say that being thin or small is bad either, everyone is different and humans are amazingly, crazily, wildly diverse and wonderful.

But yeah, a bunch of sexist dudes deliberately propagating the concept that women should be forced into an infinitesimally narrow definition of acceptable body type, well, yeah, pretty hum-drum for the internet.

On the other hand, this new show sounds exciting. Netflix has been doing pretty good recently at making decent western cartoons (Hollow and Voltron are not bad), which has been a good band-aid for a former anime fan that’s been burned one too many times by the sexism and objectification drenched in almost every single show.

Mogwitch
Mogwitch
3 years ago

@JaneDone
It’s a bit different in Michaelangelo’s case as he literally used male models and put boobs on them. We even know the names of some of the models, eg. Antonio Mini, his apprentice and model for Leda and the Swan.
Women couldn’t model without a lot of social stigma, but the tragedy is due to Michaelangelo mostly being interested in the male body, wanting to eroticize the male body, and living in a time when he was only allowed to create mythological scenes and only women could be represented as sexual objects. So he makes a lovely sculpture of his lover and then has to jam a pair of ill fitting boobs on it and pretend its got something to do with Zeus

Zaunfink
Zaunfink
3 years ago

Ah, so close, boys.

They are right on one thing – the comic design has been changed to appeal to the current generations. Literally the first thought I had was “okay…. That looks way different and like it was made for children. And they went the netflix-typical route of diversifying.”. Because – they did. Nobody can look at that and not realise that it’s deliberately tailored to the current progressive thinking luckily happening.

Where they go wrong is in being so fucking incredibly whiny about it! It’s a GOOD THING!
yeah, it’s a bit weird to see a story you know being told with a completely different style, but people, you survived Ben Affleck as batman and hey, he’s pretty cool. Just different.

They see the truth and then they take it and do the weirdest things to it and come up with this crap. Just… Ugh.

And that comment about women nowadays growing fat and coloring their hair and being unhappy instead of taking care of themselves and being their best selves? The fuck, dude? Choosing ones haircolor and not desperately trying to fit into outdated stereotypes and accepting that sometimes you feel like shit and mental problems happen – that IS taking care of yourself. Dumbass.

dustydeste
dustydeste
3 years ago

Oh, so that’s what Noelle Stevenson’s been up to! While I have no real horse in this race as far as having watched the original show, I think the new designs are really cute, and might check the show out since I know Stevenson is a good storyteller.

Re: WWTH & the case of the missing busty women, I really feel you there. It’d be great to see myself in an actual character, instead of a set of tits played for humour/sex appeal. I’ve been uncomfortable about my, er, prominent chest since I was twelve at least, and finding out in high school that one of my good male friends had me listed in his phone as “Tits” really did a number on me back in the day. As did realizing that the old man at a church dinner who told me I “looked like an Amazon” when I was 11 or so did not mean that I looked like a capable warrior by his comment. Let Busty Women Kick Ass In A Practical Manner!

Kootiepatra
3 years ago

As an adult, I am a bit meh on the art style (as I am with most newer cartoons; they just don’t grab me the same way some of the older style stuff does).

As a kid, though? I was *super* not into the art style for She-Ra. And it wasn’t just that I didn’t like it—I looked at it and thought, “Oh, that looks like the art that goes on comic books for teenagers and grownups” and literally did not realize that I was in the target demographic. Tiny!Kootie would at least recognize “This is for me” in the new She-Ra.

And 10/10 for having visible shorts under the skirt. I know it’s still a long way from being battle-practical, but eliminating the possibility of upskirt angles is terrific, IMO. Not to mention that it’s an outfit little girls could easily closet-cosplay in, which lets them do acrobatic/active stuff without undies showing or without a sleeveless top falling off.

And as someone who hasn’t been particularly flat-chested since I was possibly still in She-Ra’s target demographic, I am all for the idea that female characters don’t have to lose their boobs to be tough and heroic. …But I also recognize that heroic women with boobs is kind of the norm, not the exception, so whether the boobs are sensibly covered/supported or just smaller, either way is a nudge towards better representation. IMO.

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
3 years ago

The show isn’t aimed at children, but I found Futurama’s Leela to be a pretty good example of writing a well-rounded female character drawn with noticeable boobage.

occasional reader
occasional reader
3 years ago

Hello.

Hmm, when i was young, there was also a girl-aimed animation serie, Jem and the Holograms, and i do not remember the characters to be pretty busty. And nobody was complaining. It seems the trend is to complain about everything new. Well, not really a trend, novelty is often the target of a part of the population (that does not mean that anything new is good, however).

Out of topic, but for this year promotion of the Legion of Honour (one of the highest rank of orders of merit), there has been some suprises, especially this one : Muriel Tramis, a woman of color video game designer. Even if she only obtained the lowest rank of this order, guess who are not quite happy about that ?

Have a nice day.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
3 years ago

It seems the trend is to complain about everything new.

1987: Damned Gene Roddenberry has ruined Star Trek FOREVER!
1993: What the fuck is this? This is not Star Trek. And though it’s obviously trying to be, it’s not Babylon 5 either!
1995: Damned Joel Shumacher has ruined Batman FOREVER!
Also 1995: Damned Kate Mulgrew has ruined Star Trek FOREVER!
1999: Damned George Lucas has ruined Star Wars FOREVER!
2003: Damned Wachowskis have ruined The Matrix FOREVER … after just a few damned years!
2005: Damned Christopher Nolan has ruined Batman EVEN MORE THAN IT ALREADY WAS!
2013: Damned Zack Snyder somehow managed to ruin SUPERMAN!
2016: Paul Feig did WHAT to the Ghostbusters?!
Also 2016: Damned Zack Snyder ruined the ruined ruin of Batman?!
2017: Gal Gawho? If it doesn’t say LYNDA CARTER on it I’m not watching!
Also 2017: Damned Zack Snyder has ruined Man of Steel FOREVER!
ALSO 2017: Damned new ALLEGED Star Trek series has ruined Klingons FOREVER!
2018: Damned Noelle Stevenson has ruined She-Ra FOREVER!

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
3 years ago

(Warning: stealth pun in above.)

Muriel Tramis, a woman of color video game designer. Even if she only obtained the lowest rank of this order, guess who are not quite happy about that ?

Given what she’s undoubtedly endured at the hands of the gamergaters, she should probably have been given a fucking Purple Heart…

Rei Malebario
Rei Malebario
3 years ago

Looking at the linked pictures, I like her old preposterous headpiece slightly better because when you’re doing preposterous headpieces in a cartoon, you may as well go all out.
That’s the strongest opinion on new She-Ra vs old She-Ra I can muster.
No, wait, the new Adora looks much more fun and expressive than the old one.

Who?
Who?
3 years ago

https://camestrosfelapton.wordpress.com/2018/07/18/she-ra-leads-to-scrappy-doo-distemper/

I hope the link works this time.
I delete a comment above where it didn’t work, because I couldn’t edit it before I wrote that one.
It is a reaction about the same topic from other sources.

Marshmallow Stacy Maximal (formerly bluecat)
Marshmallow Stacy Maximal (formerly bluecat)
3 years ago

I love the aside about old hippies moving into the universities to indoctrinate and brain wash youngsters.

I couldn’t even brain wash my students to double space their essays.

Mind you, I’m less an old hippy than an elderly punkgirl.

Nequam
Nequam
3 years ago

@Marshmallow Stacy: I’ll use your last comment as an excuse to post this:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/may/07/never-mind-bus-pass-punks-look-back-wildest-days

I like how Jordan is still rocking unusually-colored hair.

Knitting Cat Lady
Knitting Cat Lady
3 years ago

So, people getting their knickers in a twist about an art change for a kid’s comic accuse others of arrested development…

…good thing I buy industrial strength irony metres. In bulk.

That aside, I didn’t watch He-Man or She-Ra as a kid, as we didn’t get the TV-station it was on. I’ve only ever seen a hand full of episodes.

Things that stood out to me even as a ten year old:

-The animation was atrocious.
-That nobody put two and two together and figured out the civilian identities of He-Man and She-Ra is only possible due to magic.
-Animated Prince Ironheart hair cuts look worse than real ones.

There was a reboot of He-Man some years back. More than 15, actually, I was still in school…

I watched a few episodes here and there and liked the fact that civilian!He-man was a scrawny kid and hero!He-Man was totally ripped and at least a foot taller.

the real cie
the real cie
3 years ago

Oddly enough, I never looked at She-Ra’s boobs. I kind of chuckled at the silly story lines sometimes. I liked the original art, to be honest. I probably won’t watch the reboot. I’ve a bit of nostalgia for the old cartoons, silly though they were.

Kereea
Kereea
3 years ago

@weirwoodtreehugger: I think another part of it is that a lot of animation and comics so emphasize larger brests (boobsocks having them unnaturally separated, exaggerated boobplates, etc) that it’s almost like people don’t get how to draw larger boobs in a non-sexualized way anymore. Also as some female characters get better costumes (Spider-Gwen, Miss Marvel, Captain Marvel, Batgirl, Batwoman with most artists) the de-emphasis of the boobs as being drawn in a more accurate, true-to-life way, as if covered by normal clothing, makes people think the bust size has been hugely reduced when in fact she’s just clothed like a normal person.

This came up with the latest Mortal Kombat game, X. They finally gave the women realistic, more athletic proportions as part of the game’s more “Real” art style (tho the costuming could still leave a lot to be desired, srsly just cause they’re not in bikinis anymore did not mean Mileena and Kitana are dressed anywhere near sensibly)…and the manbaby part of the fanbase lost their shit. Said they made the women into “dudes” by…giving them normal human proportions. Hell, several still had big racks, even, just drawn like a normal woman with a big rack. And they couldn’t handle it.

Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
3 years ago

Hence the talk about female “role models”

Be Bust.

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