By David Futrelle
If you spend a lot of time on Twitter, you probably know about The Ratio, the closest thing we have to an objective measure of the Extreme Badness of any particular tweet. If someone gets many times as many comments on a tweet than retweets and likes, chances are good that most of those comments are telling them that they’re full of crap. The higher the ratio of responses to retweets/likes, the worse the tweet.
Yesterday I ran across the most extremely ratioed tweet I’ve ever seen, posted by a Chicago radio personality — John Willians of WGN — doubting a story of street harassment tweeted out by Amy Guth, also a radio host on the same station. By the time I saw it, the tweet had gotten more than a thousand responses — and only 2 retweets. Reading it, I think you’ll see why.
https://twitter.com/wgnkingjohn/status/1006715276057030656
It probably didn’t hurt that Guth tweeted out a bit of a challenge to her Twitter followers:
Women of internet: my colleague keeps insisting I can’t possibly be telling the truth re instances of street harassment and other comments from strangers. Pls feel free to @ him as many stories of street harassment or commentary from strangers as you’d like to share. Thanks! https://t.co/jV6siaOpR8
— Amy Güth (@amyguth) June 13, 2018
The two evidently discussed the matter on his show yesterday, which I unfortunately missed. I’m sure he learned a thing or two.
And he could learn a lot more from the hundreds of women (and a smaller percentage of men) who responded to his tweet with pointed critiques — and stories of the street harassment. I’ve collected some of the responses that stood out the most to me; you can also plunge straight into the giant thread yourself here.
The critiques were appropriately blunt.
And then there were the stories — story after story, weird and horrible and utterly believable. (I’ve blacked out the names for all the story tweets because, you know, this is the internet.)
An appalling — if not surprising — number of respondents said they started getting creepy come-ons and other varieties of sexeual harassment when they were still children.
Horrifying. And there are so, so many more in the thread itself.
Dudes, if at this point — after #metoo, after Trump’s “pussy grabbing” tape, after countless public revelations — you still doubt that street harassment happens, it’s because of one or more of these things 1) you’re not talking to women, 2) you’re not listening to women, or 3) you give off such a creepy, Men’s Rightsy vibe that no woman feels comfortable telling you about the harassment she’s had to deal with. Fix yourself. Start by reading this whole thread on twitter.
JUST what the world needed. A sequel to that Reddit thread from a few years ago that David did a post over at the time, I believe. The one where someone asked women “how old were you when men started to harass you?”, and got answers basically saying “from age 5 on up.”
Bleh.
I don’t understand what these hardheads think they have to lose by accepting the fact that this bullshit happens. I wish someone could explain the knee-jerk desire to/comfort with hand-waving away someone else’s experience right off the bat.
Don’t worry, ladies, Candace Owens has the solution:
https://www.wonkette.com/candace-owens-bad-take-on-metoo-manages-to-appall-literally-everyone
And when you lose Joe “Deadbeat Dad” Walsh, you know you’ve stepped in it.
I think that it’s because if men accepted that the vast majority of women are routinely objectified and harmed because of that objectification, then they have to assume responsibility for ceasing the milder forms of objectification that they themselves are guilty of. Since they like thinking of women as things put on earth to please their boner, or mommy them, or both, they tell themselves that “real” misogyny is an outlier, that most of the women who claim to experience misogyny must be lying or mistaken. Basically, if male privilege is to stay intact, they need to not accept our words at face value.
I have rarely told men about the way I am treated by existing as a woman. Get treated with disbelief and yes, you really back off.
One memorable occasion for me was a man grabbing my arse when I was cycling. I had my TWO young children on the bike with me.
“then they have to assume responsibility for ceasing the milder forms of objectification that they themselves are guilty of. ”
@Chief Manatee
That sounds right.
The thought also just occurred to me that they would also have to face up to their tendency to be permissive/approving of or silent about the behaviors of guys they associate with. I know guys that are very well behaved. I never see or hear about them ever failing to keep their hands and thoughts to themselves. But then they mysteriously become uncomfortable and sometimes change the subject to some tangent when it comes up. Maybe they don’t want to be guilty by association or do the work of calling other dudes out. They want to keep being comfortable with other guys and think of those guys as alright.
The way I was treated was that it really got going when I was 12, and dropped off sharply at 22. It peaked at 17 when I couldn’t leave the house without it happening.
It has become rare now at 53, and in recent years I have actually been approached occasionally in a RESPECTFUL way! I am not interested, but it is SO nice to actually be considered a real person by men who find me sexually attractive!
Much reflection in later years has made me conclude that intimidating and scaring girls/ women is a big part of the goal – not trying to meet women. I guess if they find you attractive as well that makes it more exciting for them.
It started for me when I was 10 (and just starting puberty). I’m now 50 and it still hasn’t stopped. Some asshole will probably catcall my coffin at my funeral when I’m 100. And my cold dead hand will pop the lid to give him the finger when that happens, too.
The funny thing is that like, my experience hasn’t been men disbelieving me, it’s been men thinking I told them some deep dark personal secret when I’ve told a story that I thought was pretty unremarkable.
Like, ok, so my boyfriend has long hair, and the first time a coworker I’m friends with saw us together he assumed he was my sister. So later that day we were chatting and he asked about my sister being in town, and I was like, no…? And he was like, oh, well who dropped you off at work this morning? And I laughed and was like, “That’s my boyfriend.” My coworker friend was a little embarrassed and apologetic, and I was like, “No, no, it’s ok, people make that mistake all the time. Back in college we used to get catcalled as lesbians pretty often.”
My coworker got this look of uncomfortable horror on his face and started apologizing profusely, and I’m just like, what? I wasn’t trying to make him uncomfortable or make a point, it was just the first example that came to mind of my boyfriend getting mistaken for a girl. And he was treating it like a big deal when at the time, my boyfriend and I used to just, like, roll our eyes and keep walking.
(Not that that couldn’t have been scary, depending on the circumstances; but we were lucky and were never actually followed by our catcallers.)
As a guy, allow me to proffer my opinion on this:
They’re not actually thinking at all.
Male privilege allows them to both not see the vast majority of harassment going on around them and to minimize the harassment they do happen to notice because they – safe and secure in the role of a male within a patriarchal society – have the luxury of seeing words and actions like that devoid of the greater context that would show them to be a threat. They don’t have the degrading, grinding-down experience of dealing with that all the damn time, much less any understanding of how often these incidents degenerate into violence or the threat of violence.
So when they hear women talk about harassment, they feel like it’s overblown or just not true. And with the all the current testeria about the #MeToo movement going on right now, they may also feel like they – and, by extension, men in general – are under attack, because obviously harassment isn’t anywhere near as bad as women make it out to be or they would have noticed it.
Same thing with a lot of white people and systemic racism and the Black Lives Matter movement: they have the luxury of not seeing it, so it must not be happening or must not be anywhere near as bad as black people say it is.
…and once you feel that way, it’s a pretty short step to “bitches be lyin’.”
I’ve never actually been catcalled (or what I would consider catcalling). I’ve had men yelling at me about how fat I am from their cars, though. And I had a man try to pick me up when I was 11 or 12 and waiting for my parents to pick me up (they’d forgotten me and were an hour late). Luckily even the name calling is quite rare. Maybe Canadian men are slightly better behaved than American ones? I honestly don’t know, I don’t have any friends who I could ask about their experiences.
I’ve noticed that men who think like this are themselves guilty of street harassment, many on a daily basis. 🙁
My personal favorite are the men who tell me to smile. No, because men like that are the reason I’ve had Resting B*tch Face since age 4. It’s unsettling to have older men call you “pretty” at that age. It really is.
Umm, I have a burning question:
Has anyone ever successfully picked up a woman via cat-calling?
I have heard of literally NO instances where a woman was swept off her feet as a result of being whistled at.
@Skylalalalalalala
From personal experience, Canadian men aren’t immune. Far from pretty myself and traditionally plus size, have gotten a handful of harassments in my 40+ years. From “look at that chunk of honey”, to whistling from a car, to following me home from a bar, to “the dress is pretty but the face ain’t”, to getting felt up by a blind man while in line for taco bell (and yes boys, i do know the difference between an accidental brush and a lingering hand).
But the earliest and creepiest in hindsight was my uncles. I have 7 of them (not counting inlaws) and it’s kind of unsettling how much they talked about what i would look like when older and would have me sit on their laps, those sorts of things. Nothing untoward happened, but it really normalized that kind of talk and attitude when it comes from people you love and trust.
I think there’s a 4th category, much larger than the 3rd: You’re a man who she’s seen catcall other women or make comments about other women or excuse catcalling women and thinks it’s all harmless so she doesn’t feel like being ridiculed and doubted.
I was walking home once, five-thirty or so, and a guy was doing the slow drive next to me, trying to “talk” to me. I finally gave him an annoyed look, and he…. flashed a fucking pistol and cursed at me.
I turned around and walked the other way, praying he couldn’t u-turn until I got out of sight.
I don’t really see any of this but that’s mostly because I’m a shut-in. That’s probably why I’m more inclined to believe it happens.
…on the other hand, I was out with my partner one time and they pointed out something similar to this that had happened when I wasn’t looking. Sure maybe I was just facing the other way, but I also wasn’t looking for it because it’s not personal to me and I don’t have to look for it in order to stay safe myself.
Unrelated: I don’t think I’m qualified to say what the “worst” thing about this is but hearing about the 9 year old doing it was really chilling and highlights how deep this shit goes. If we have kids doing it at 9 it’s being sold as a fundamental part of the male identity and that’s really fucking concerning.
When I was 15, the boy I was babysitting grabbed my boobs. He was maybe 6 or 7. Definitely old enough to know better. Especially since he grinned like he knew he was doing something naughty while he was doing it.
@wwth
He knew, had probably been taught by older men in his life either by doing it accidentally and getting positive feedback or told to do so by a role model. Either way, it’s sad that it starts so young, normalizing the behaviour. Best case scenario, excuses are made when they’re young and innocent and don’t know better, but they aren’t taught not to do it. There are ways to correct the behaviour when they’re young, but it’s hard when their dad or uncle is giving them a secret high-five.
I’m not even going into the number of times I’ve had this kind of experience, and the utter stupidity of people thinking women make this stuff up because … reasons.
However, on the broader topic of failing to hold men accountable, I’m feeling helplessly, hopelessly angry about the police response to a young woman’s rape and murder in Melbourne this week. Eurydice Dixon, a comedian, was walking home through a big inner-city park (everyone uses it to cut across) when she was raped and killed.
Eurydice Dixon was carrying a phone; she even messaged a friend to let them know she was almost home. I get that police are focusing on immediate context, but it’s fucking 2018 and still women are held responsible for getting themselves raped and murdered. The police don’t say “Hey, men? How about you take some fucking responsibility and don’t hurt people?”
I don’t suppose this counts as “street” harassment, but my brother-in-law exposed himself to me while my sister was in the shower!
So you don’t even have to be on the street. You could be babysitting your sister’s kids for free, doing her a favor, and her husband decides you need to see him naked.
And now that I am older, I frequently experience young men in pickup trucks yelling at me to go home to my husband when I’m out walking by myself. Because all women have husbands? (I do, but that’s none of their business). Because women can’t leave the house? Because young teen boy needs to tell mature professional woman what to do? All of the above?
@Mish:
Saw that on Facebook (I’m subscribed to Destroy The Joint, who are protesting this very thing). They made the point that more Australian women were murdered by men in the last six months than Aussies of any gender had been killed by terrorists, EVER. And that nobody was even contemplating sexism as a factor in their deaths.
And yeah. How afuckingbout men being taken to task for a change? Oh, a girl can dream, can’t she?
@F is for ‘Fro’
Pretty sure that isn’t the goal. Sure, some guys might say they were trying to pick their target up or whatever, but I think that’s just an excuse. The point is signalling. To other guys that you are straight, that you can be counted on to uphold patriarchal systems, that you can ‘talk’ to women.
When I was in my late teens, I worked at a fast food place. After finishing my shift, I stopped at a gas station. I was greasy, sweaty and tired. I asked the clerk where the restroom was. He asked me, “Can I watch?”
After college, I sold radio advertising for awhile. The station owners were a couple of obese, crude harrassers who just loved that their sales team consisted of women half their age. When they weren’t acting like pigs, they were playing Henry Higgins to the Eliza Doolittles they imagined us to be. This was back in the 1980s. Times haven’t changed enough in 35 years, alas. And really, do these jerkwads ever think their crap will get a positive response from the women they target?
@Bakunin – It’s also meant to be a reminder to the woman that public spaces belong to men. Making women feel threatened and ashamed is the entire point.
I did burst out laughing once when a gray Volkswagen pulled up next to me on the street, the passenger door opened, and a voice growled “GET IN THE CAR, BITCH!” As a pickup line, it was so goddamn inept. I was like “Yeah, right, that sounds enticing.”
When it started following me in reverse, going the wrong way up the one way street, I ran like hell. The next day I found out they’d tried the same thing on two of my classmates who were also walking home by themselves.