By David Futrelle
If you have any lingering doubt that incels — or at least a significant percentage of them — are straight-up terrorists, here’s a lovely conversation taking place tonight on Incels.me, one of the, er, leading forums for so-called “involuntary celibates” online.
Here’s the full text, with some thoughts:
A woman should be deathly afraid of rejecting a guy. When a guy asks her out she should be made aware of what a horrible fate will be left on the guy if she rejects him, and the only way to accomplish this is through instilling fear on the females.
Hate to break it to you, Crustaciouse, but women already know that men often react to rejection with anger, insults, and in too many cases, actual violence.
Whenever a guy gets rejected he should scare the female, go on a shocking rant right in front of her and make it seem as if he lost his sanity and is ready to kill the female.
Men already do this, too many of them, all the fucking time. One of the reasons incels can’t get dates is that many of them give off a clear vibe that they are these kinds of guys. So women do what they can to make sure these guys can’t get close enough to them to even ask for a date.
If enough guys do this then rejections will completely be destroyed.
Sorry, fellas, but it’s not going to happen. Partly because women realize that saying “yes” to these sorts of guys is as dangerous as saying “no,” if not more so.
Second step is the actual date, if the female thinks she can just ghost the guy and not go on the date then she must be proven wrong, these females should be doxed and stalked.
Threatening phone calls should be made to her house and the guy should leave threatening objects at her door such as a knife covered in animal blood.
Fucking hell. This is why women give out fake phone numbers.
And this is why it’s so fucking creepy when people like Jordan Peterson essentially argue that society should figure out a way to make sure that at least some very unlucky women will be desperate enough, or pressured enough, to date and even marry these violent pieces of shit.
Guys who react to rejection with violence and threats of violence are pretty fucking likely to use violence in relationships to get what they want. Peterson’s vision of “enforced monogamy” — despite his attempts to deny the implications of his language — would basically amount to “enforced domestic violence.”
He is basically demanding that society give in to the sort of incel threats we see in this Incels.me thread.
So you may wonder: is there anyone on Incels.me willing to challenge this sort of thinking?
Well. in this particular case, nope! In fact, they’ve somehow managed to convince themselves that women are actually really into being threatened by violent losers.
And then there’s this guy, who really seems taken by the “murder” idea.
In case you are thinking that these guys are outliers on Incels.me, if not actual trolls trying to make incels look bad, nope! The OP has posted more than 4900 comments on the site in the seven months he’s been on it; the murder dude has posted 600. No trolls are that dedicated.
NOTE: I learned of this horrific post from @Justincelthings on Twitter, who documents a great deal of truly awful incel crap. Definitely worth a follow, if you can stomach it.
@HeroBlue
It’s so cute the way these tough-talking incels think that women won’t fight back.
I’ve done various martial arts for years.
My first Ju-Jitsu instructor had been a doorman, a debt collector, and a boxer. A round, short fifty-something who’d trained in Japan, and one of the warmest human beings I’ve ever known. He’d created a class that was more like a family. His own daughter trained like a demon, as did lots of the other women in the dojo.
He also taught self-defence classes in local gyms for women (he hated the term ‘self-defence’ though, as he thought it put people on the back foot psychologically), and always took along some of the youngest women in the class, paired with some of the monstrously-sized males, to show that a larger, aggressive man can be dissuaded, hurt, and if necessary, taken down with simple and effective techniques.
The first few lessons in Ju-Jitsu generally involve learning how to fall down safely. Because you’re going to be doing lots and lots of it. After that I was paired with a slight, 15 year old brown belt, who was working towards her school exams. She was tasked with teaching me the basic hip throw. And she was really, really good. The belt kind of gave that away anyway, but every throw I took from her, I never felt any struggle or application of muscle power. Her technique was flawless. And she was taking it easy on me – an older, larger man struggling through the basics, like most will. I later watched her in a demonstration at a community centre, apply the same throw on another senior at full tilt. It was a blur, and he hit the mat with pretty stunning force, even with his breakfall to cushion the impact.
There seems to be this assumption in online misogyny that all women are easy targets for harassment and assault. Not the case at all I’m afraid, fellas. But whatever makes you feel better about yourself. I pity any idiot that messes with the women I’ve trained with. It wouldn’t be a happy ending for them.
Hey, here’s a bright idea in the same vibe as what Jordan Peterson is proposing: why don’t we give in to all of ISIS’ demands ? That’ll end the war on terror, right ?
A man from my mum’s church asked her out last month. She turned him down and nothing happened. Any normal person, male or female, sucks it up and moves on.
There was a WordPress privacy update on May 17 requiring users to opt in to cookies, which might be why it’s no longer “remembering” login info from session to session.
Logged out users are supposed to be able to see the new “save my name…” checkbox, but I haven’t seen it yet. Does anyone else see it?
Re: martial arts, it’s interesting to observe the similarities in the narratives incels tell themselves about their encounters with women and bad guys. Always it’s a lone incel, battling bravely against a harsh and uncaring world to achieve Manhood. They operate in a system that awards points for dominating other humans, in which sex and fighting are the most visible ways of accomplishing that.
And they’re all about the shortcuts. What’s the laziest route to rack up bedpost notches? What are the cheats and hacks? What’s the secret knockout wrist grip that will allow them to win every single time?
It’s exactly that sort of cut-to-the-chase entitlement that sets them up for failure. After two sessions at the local mall dojo, they’re fantasizing about laying waste to a gang of Hell’s Angels, and discounting the “before” and “after” of that scene as boring/unimportant. But the thing about real-world violent encounters is that the “before” part is THE most critical factor that determines survival. And it’s this part that incels are least equipped to handle.
For starters, they have a terrible theory of mind, and are too arrogant to properly engage with the world as it is, so they miss vital signals that tell them danger is afoot. They have no idea what constitutes normal behavior vs. red flag behavior (as evidenced by their field reports, in which other people are written as strange two-dimensional aliens from the Stilted Dialogue Planet). They’re blinded by ego and obsessing over whether they “have what it takes”, which means they’re unlikely to be scanning for escape routes. They may even subconsciously maneuver themselves into a corner, looking for an excuse to unleash the devastating fight skills they imagine they possess. If someone does threaten them, their pride won’t let them de-escalate. By the time they’re surrounded by a dozen angry bikers (or even one diminutive brown belt), it’s way too late. When someone asks a martial arts instructor “What do I do if seventeen ninjas corner me with lead pipes?” what they’re really saying, in essence, is “I plan to not listen and do everything wrong, so, um…what’s the quickest way to wiggle out of my self-created mess?”
The “after” part shouldn’t be overlooked either. Violence is traumatic, for both victim and perpetrator. It’s a hellish portal that should not be entered lightly. PTSD affects both parties, and it’s a lifelong sentence. Not only that, the law permits only a very narrow spectrum of lethal force. It’s very easy to cross the line between self-defense and assault. You can wind up in jail, or losing all your assets to litigation, even if the other person started it. In the real world, you can’t go around using your krav maga skills on people without serious legal repercussions.
I mean, lots of people have silly, harmless daydreams about battling ninjas or whatever, but incels are so invested in their contextless fantasies. They’re demanding the right to experience no-strings sex and offload all the negative psychological consequences onto everyone else. And we’re supposed to agree to this, why exactly?
Correct. They’re incels exactly because they don’t bother struggling. That’s what makes the difference: Are you trying to be better or not?
Once you try, things improve very fast. But you do have to try.
Do these guys earnestly expect to be happy in a relationship with someone who’s only in out of fear for her life?
I can only imagine they’d quickly find having a hostage for a partner would do nothing to cure their loneliness or feelings of inadequacy. They’d just go right back to being miserable hateful shitbeans, but with a victim to take it out on.
Not that this has a chance in hell of happening. As others have said, women would not take it lying down (we already have the possibility of violence to worry about when we reject men’s advances ffs).
Ah. So you would like to please a woman. Women go for that! Sex tip (from a woman)! Women don’t appreciate you projecting your wishes onto them.
Another guy who would like to please a woman. Really sweet — in theory. Given that you are “unfortunately incel,” I’m not sure where you get your information. Did you know that porn is not a documentary?
PS: UnfortunatelyINCEL, in your zeal to avoid using “manospherian ellipses” — six or more dots — you used only two! Three dots is the number to use after a grammatically incomplete sentence. Use four dots (a period and three ellipses) after a grammatically complete sentence. You are so welcome!
Making Friends With Other Sports Moms Made Me Feel Like I Was a Teenager Again
https://slate.com/human-interest/2018/06/making-friends-with-other-sports-parents-on-a-travel-swim-team.html
The headline about feeling like a teenager again prompted me to think about the contrasts between abusive guys (I’m looking at you, incels, MGTOWs, PUAs, and the rest of your hateful, poisonous ilk) and guys who want a relationship based on mutual respect.
Before I met my boyfriend, I had relationships with a few men, some of whom were abusers. Manipulative, exploitative, and given to temper tantrums, these guys — despite their vehement protests to the contrary — didn’t care about me at all; I was a thing to use to meet their own goals, whether that was to boost their egos, make their troublesome situations go away, or buy them dinner.
When I met my boyfriend, I realized those abusers had made me feel so weighed down by problems (their problems!) that I felt old. My new boyfriend, on the other hand, cared about me. He wanted to know about my life and he wanted to know my opinions. My happiness was his and so was my pain. He made me feel as though I were sixteen — young, carefree, and with my whole life ahead of me. Bonus: I also felt as though someone had my back.
I can’t get back those years I wasted on abusers. But maybe I can warn other women away from morally stunted, ethically twisted, devious, self-centered individuals with zero interest in growing, learning, and changing for the better.
Late go the party as always, been working on my dissertation.
@EJ (the other one)
Please accept a standing ovation, that rant was spectacular, and not nearly as swear as I thought it would be.
I went over to Judgy bitches website because sometimes I’m a glutton for punishment. She recently posted her commentary on Jordan Peterson’s theory on enforced monogamy. It was an enlightening read, and by enlightening I mean horrible, very bad, awful read. Uggh
Sarity wrote:
Two things.
First, some of them don’t want a relationship, they just want sex whenever they want it. They don’t regard women as real people, just as things to satisfy their urges, like a piece of food.
Second, the others have not thought the matter through, or are really, really, stupid, as it is perfectly obvious that fear is not the foundation of a good relationship.
The sad truth is, most people don’t think longterm about what would make them happy in life, and act with little foresight. That is the way to live a miserable life, but that is the way many people live their lives.
People would be much better off if only they put some thought into such things. For those wanting something simple and easy to understand, they could try reading some Epicurus, such as:
Letter to Menoeceus
And:
Principal Doctrines
People should think about how they want to live their lives, and then, after figuring that out, they should ask themselves whether their chosen course of actions are suitable for how they want to live their lives. But, as Bertrand Russell observed, “most people would die sooner than think – in fact they do so.”
@Surplus
Yes, but changes to those are not necessarily something David has control over, so you repeatedly demanding that he roll back the changes is far from helpful.
Well of course he has control over it. It’s his server, he can wipe and reinstall the operating system and everything if he wants to, surely. But in all likelihood the culprit was updating the site’s copy of WordPress to the GDPR-compliant version.
Oh, and by the way, the problems are way more than cosmetic. Every comment on the Julie Burchell/drag queens/blackface thread made after 2 AM last night is gone. They were still there this morning, but not anymore.
The buggy new version is fumbling significant amounts of data now. That is simply not acceptable. To stick with the current version after that catastrophic data loss would be downright irresponsible, and to hell with EU regulators that don’t even have any jurisdiction over a machine located in Brea, California.
@Surplus
The comments are showing up just fine for me.
The Julie Burchell ones, I mean. I still have to wait a while for new comments to appear.
@Surplus
That’s not how WordPress works. Sites are stored on their server and you pay them to host it for you. No one is saying the problems aren’t serious. What we are saying is you repeatedly making angry posts about what David needs to do and asserting that the solution is simple when you don’t actually know what the root cause of the problem is does not help anyone. I’m not going to weigh in on this again, just please stop. Website bugs are not as easy to fix as you seem to assume.
Dudes may want to think just a bit about this plan if they live in a “Stand Yer Ground” state.
I will stop after correcting a factual error, which is that it is how WordPress works. A quick google for “download wordpress” produces this as the first result:
It is downloadable software. There are probably cloud services providing WordPress hosting, but no one is forced to use such a service. David either is or can set up his server as an independent instance running a version earlier than the bug-ridden, data-destroying 4.9.6. If he is using such a cloud service, that cloud service has failed him in a serious way and he should switch, or run a server directly using the version of his choice in order to be able to avoid problems like these resulting from somebody else’s screw-up. If he is already running a server directly, he should revert to 4.9.5, or whatever the last version was that actually worked properly.
And my anger is on behalf of the people who lost hours of work contributing to the thread that got butchered. It seems justified. Perhaps you don’t agree, but I think the opinions of those whose contributions to that thread were lost should take precedence, and my guess is none of them are very pleased with reloading it this evening and finding it reverted back to the state it had been in most of a day earlier.
These are my last words on this topic, other than that if additional large-scale catastrophes ensue, I may remark upon each briefly once after its occurrence to simply state what has been lost — something like “there was a long and interesting discussion of X here yesterday, but sometime between 3 and 8 am this morning the bug ate everything more recent than 9pm last night”, or similarly, depending on exactly what happened.
@Gr8dane
I’d love to know more — without actually having to read Judgy Bitch.
Whatever she says, the subject is hilarious, given that she recently left her husband for another man. I’m pretty sure that adultery was involved.
And by “pretty sure,” I mean that I’d bet the farm.
@Surplus
I appreciate you’re frustrated, but I would imagine David wants this fixed as much as you do because it is losing him commenters and is extremely annoying.
So I’m sure he is on it – just because we haven’t seen an update doesn’t mean he isn’t doing anything; to be fair there is not really a lot of point updating us unless the update is “it’s fixed”.
So I think maybe cool off a bit about it, as far as I’m concerned it’s not the end of the world if the term paper on drag queens I decided to set myself disappears into the ether
Seeing as how Daddy JBP is the lead swirly pic at the top of this post, I wanted to share this excellent article by Kate Manne, who is currently in trouble on Twitter for daring to be critical of Professor Lobster. In it, she shares some extracts from 12 Rules, including this one:
JBP also offers some charming apologia regarding the Columbine killers, and several other murderers that we’re all familiar with here, plus a lovely discussion of the ways that cats are killed by vehicles (loser cats are run over).
But his popularity is solely due to his LOGIC, right? It can’t be due to the fact that he’s repackaged MRA/alt right/incel talking points as ‘intellectual’???
@ mish
I can’t help but hear that in the voice of that bloke who does the cinema trailers.
@Gr8dane – I am also intrigued by Judgey’s article but really don’t want to visit her site to see!
Would you be able to post a few highlights?
If we must have enforced monogamy to appease violent men because lobsters, then by that same logic we need to legalize men breaking into other men’s homes to harass them because it’s necessary to allow men to feel dominant.
Or is it only women who have to suffer and be violated to appease violent men? Oh, right. Of course it is.