By David Futrelle
If you have any lingering doubt that incels — or at least a significant percentage of them — are straight-up terrorists, here’s a lovely conversation taking place tonight on Incels.me, one of the, er, leading forums for so-called “involuntary celibates” online.
Here’s the full text, with some thoughts:
A woman should be deathly afraid of rejecting a guy. When a guy asks her out she should be made aware of what a horrible fate will be left on the guy if she rejects him, and the only way to accomplish this is through instilling fear on the females.
Hate to break it to you, Crustaciouse, but women already know that men often react to rejection with anger, insults, and in too many cases, actual violence.
Whenever a guy gets rejected he should scare the female, go on a shocking rant right in front of her and make it seem as if he lost his sanity and is ready to kill the female.
Men already do this, too many of them, all the fucking time. One of the reasons incels can’t get dates is that many of them give off a clear vibe that they are these kinds of guys. So women do what they can to make sure these guys can’t get close enough to them to even ask for a date.
If enough guys do this then rejections will completely be destroyed.
Sorry, fellas, but it’s not going to happen. Partly because women realize that saying “yes” to these sorts of guys is as dangerous as saying “no,” if not more so.
Second step is the actual date, if the female thinks she can just ghost the guy and not go on the date then she must be proven wrong, these females should be doxed and stalked.
Threatening phone calls should be made to her house and the guy should leave threatening objects at her door such as a knife covered in animal blood.
Fucking hell. This is why women give out fake phone numbers.
And this is why it’s so fucking creepy when people like Jordan Peterson essentially argue that society should figure out a way to make sure that at least some very unlucky women will be desperate enough, or pressured enough, to date and even marry these violent pieces of shit.
Guys who react to rejection with violence and threats of violence are pretty fucking likely to use violence in relationships to get what they want. Peterson’s vision of “enforced monogamy” — despite his attempts to deny the implications of his language — would basically amount to “enforced domestic violence.”
He is basically demanding that society give in to the sort of incel threats we see in this Incels.me thread.
So you may wonder: is there anyone on Incels.me willing to challenge this sort of thinking?
Well. in this particular case, nope! In fact, they’ve somehow managed to convince themselves that women are actually really into being threatened by violent losers.
And then there’s this guy, who really seems taken by the “murder” idea.
In case you are thinking that these guys are outliers on Incels.me, if not actual trolls trying to make incels look bad, nope! The OP has posted more than 4900 comments on the site in the seven months he’s been on it; the murder dude has posted 600. No trolls are that dedicated.
NOTE: I learned of this horrific post from @Justincelthings on Twitter, who documents a great deal of truly awful incel crap. Definitely worth a follow, if you can stomach it.
D’AWWW THE SKWEEKY OTTER! Though I’ve heard they rarely make good pets, and are really high maintenance.
msexceptiontotherule:
Make music with them?
These people are beyond messed up. The idea that a women deserves death, let alone punishment for simply refusing to go out on a date with you is beyond depraved.
Also isn’t it just fitting that one of them would use the Ayatollah as their avatar? Especially a person who thinks that murdering women who reject them is a good idea?
@Violet:
Who’s Felicia?
@Moggie That rubber chicken guy also does a cover of Havana. 😀
Some real fire in this thread. Keep going!
@sunnysombrera
Okay. I have to say, I resent your implication that someone who can’t socialise effectively must be “lazy”. There are people with conditions like, say, autism who have difficulties with socializing and learning the “rules” of social interaction. Dismissing everyone who struggles with this as lazy is, in my eyes, extremely gross, and is really just a special case of the general “mentally ill people are just lazy bums” attitude.
Besides, incels aren’t incels because they struggle with socializing. They are incels because they are horrible, despicable, hate-filled human beings.
Seconded.
What the fuck? I replied to a comment by Cindy here, and not only did my comment fail to appear but Cindy’s disappeared!
This is getting out of hand.
Roll. Back. The. Site’s. Config. Now.
It was working flawlessly a couple weeks ago, just undo every change since then other than the addition of posts, comments, and commenters to the database and it should be back to functioning the same as it did then. Computers are deterministic. Short of a Y2K type bug triggered by the date itself exceeding a threshold, these escalatingly-severe problems with commenting must be reversible by such a configuration rollback.
@Surplus to Requirements:
Problem is, even if it’s reversible by a configuration rollback, the configuration that needs to be rolled back may not be in anything David has access to. Not if it’s based on Javascript loaded from wp.com or the like.
I know it’s annoying, Surplus, but can we ease off on the issuing demands bit?
If you just take into account it will take a few moments for your post to appear and stabilise, it’s easy to get used to.
Mind you, I grew up with 350 baud rate bulletin boards; so the fact you can get a post up in less than an hour is pretty much functional magic to me.
I still see Cindy’s post. And agree with it. SunnySombrera has been here for a long and means well, probably just wasn’t thinking, but yeah, learning to socialize well is not easy if it doesn’t come naturally. That doesn’t mean people can’t try and can’t improve though. I don’t object to saying that they could try and learn to get along with people better if they really do want a girlfriend and/or more friends, but I disagree with the assertion that it isn’t difficult.
So about a year ago kupo and I had this discussion, and since she knows much more about computers than I ever will, I deferred to her when she said that computers are not in fact deterministic.
Now I’m going to have to research what sort of music my many surgically removed squeaker collection will be most ideal for. I don’t suppose there are any early 90’s rap hits that would be perfect to do a cover of with my squeakers? (Cruisin’ down the street in my six four…)
My dog thinks I’m absolutely bonkers just because I keep them around and randomly use one to squeak in her general direction. The things I do for her. The mister doesn’t have it as good, and he’s okay with the dog making him squeeze into the space she allows him to have in the bed. A dog who is all of 13lbs but sleeps like a great dane as far as how much mattress she takes, growls at him just to ‘let him know she’s there, watching him while he sleeps’ at least once a night.
And that laser pointer I originally bought for the now passed on Siamese cat? The dog loves to chase it around, the cat never even bothered. 😛
dr. ej wrote:
If they cared about women’s wishes, they would not take the position that women should not be allowed to decline a date.
(I had thought of responding by saying instead that you obviously are not following their approach and did not instill sufficient fear into that man in order to get what you want. You could try putting a horse’s head in his bed and tell him that he had better do as you wish or else.)
@wwth
You’re right, of course – people, autistic folk included, can learn social skills. In the case of incels, though, I don’t believe lack of social skills is the issue – at the very least, not the only one.
I can still see my post, as well.
The implication I was going for wasn’t that those who struggle to socialise are lazy, but that incels *won’t* socialise properly because they’d rather whine online than learn how to attract people like my ex-colleague did. I can see how that sentence was problematic though.
And yeah, it’s not their social skills that are the problem, it’s their palpable hatred. Point taken.
Also I acknowledge wwth’s point that for some, it IS hard to learn how to socialise. Thanks for the reminder.
Mm. Yeah. Incels should definitely do this. Preferably in a state that allows concealed carry permits. Hopefully they’ll end up eating lead. Maybe then men will fucking leave us alone.
God I miss the edit windows. I was going to add “it was made in haste” after “that sentence was problematic.” Instead I get to spam the comments like the old days because of my habit of hitting Submit THEN thinking of improvements I could have made to the post.
@Kevin – well, our toddler-in-chief has both problems. Thanks for the correction, I should know better than to blarp out quips without verifying my facts.
“If enough guys do this then rejections will completely be destroyed.”
I think it’s more likely to increase the use of pepper spray…
@EJ(TOO)
Ha, thanks. I don’t remember that conversation at all. 😛
Considering David already said he didn’t change anything recently, this is likely a problem with WordPress or a widget he’s using. My guess would be a database query is bogging it down, though it’s possible we’re getting served cached versions of the page as well. It might be really difficult to find what caused the problem, and migraines certainly aren’t going to help, either.
As to the OP, this kind of behavior doesn’t reduce rejections, it reduces initial contact. Want to know why so few women are on dating sites compared to men, and why they have lower response rates? This. I initially had the idea that I should just be honest and let guys know when I’m not interested on dating sites. I learned very quickly that it escalates *very* quickly. And not for just some small number of guys. I would say maybe 5 to 10% take it well. The rest get angry, insulting, defensive, and even violent. So I only reached out if I saw no red flags in profiles and just never responded if I wasn’t interested or lost interest. I felt bad, especially when they seemed sad, but sad flips to violent quickly and it’s surprisingly difficult to predict which ones will be like that.
Apropos martial arts, this never fails to make me chuckle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8VD4JXUozM
Also, incels are undoubtedly Ed Gruberman.
Updating the software used to implement the site, including the machine’s operating system, the web server software proper, WordPress, and any “widgets”, counts as changing something. If a software update caused the problem, then unless it fixed a really major serious already-exploited-in-the-wild security hole it should probably be un-updated until the software vendor has an even newer version out that fixes the bug introduced in the previous update.
There is mounting evidence that these glitches with commenting are driving away a significant portion of the community, and inducing even more to contribute less than they used to. This isn’t just a minor cosmetic hiccup. If it is having such consequences it has to be judged severe enough to warrant hitting control-Z unless the consequences of an undo are more severe still (i.e., a near certainty of getting hacked).
Also, a slowed database or stale caches should only be able to cause delays. Cindy’s appearing, disappearing, reappearing post proves that something stranger than that is going on. At minimum, it seems that there are two copies of the site that can get out of synch with one another and the same user can be seeing one and then suddenly be seeing the other, less-up-to-date copy. It’s either that or something is causing transactions to complete (to the point of being publicly visible), then get rolled back, then repeated again. Either alternative represents seriously broken behavior. The one because load-balancing servers shouldn’t have substantially (by more than milliseconds) out of synch views of the state of the site and because the same user with the same keepalive http connections held open should remain connected to the same one of them for extended periods, and the other because duh.
To summarize: The site isn’t just slow, it’s broken in some manner, with either a badly malfunctioning one among the load balancing servers (bad) or else a badly malfunctioning database server (a lot worse), and also in that its behavior is detectably harming a community of users that its owner values. The alteration that accompanied the onset of the brokenness, whether an intentional configuration change or a patch Tuesday type of update binge, should almost certainly be undone, unless the cause of the problem is an update that patched a high risk security issue, such that rolling back that update means a grave risk of being hacked sooner than the vendor can replace the dodgy security patch with a better behaved one that still keeps the black hats out.
Oh, and one more possible brokenness: though David turned off the last of the ads, I still see several advertising scripts being blocked here, including multiple *.amazon-adsystem hosts and a doubleclick one (they’re still around? how mesozoic!). Looks like the glitchies may be causing us to see stale versions of that stuff as well, or at least not all of the advertising cruft was ripped out by its roots as thoroughly as possible. It might be that reinstalling everything intended to be kept and then reimporting the database tables is in order, though that would entail some effort and likely noticeable downtime. It would however guarantee eradicating any lingering traces of anything old (obsolete stuff in general, old-version cruft left when installing a newer one, etc.) that might be gunking up the works, and depending on how much that declutters things, if the commenting problems persist it might at least be easier to do fault isolation to identify the culprit module afterward, with fewer places in the code where the cause can hide.