By David Futrelle
The “involuntary celibates” who congregate on the Incels.me forum have previously celebrated such lovely fellows as Toronto van killer Alek Minassian, a self-described incel who murdered ten pedestrians in a symbolic attack against sex-having “Chads and Stacies,” and Elliot Rodger, the incel “saint” whose 2014 murder spree in Isla Vista California helped to inspire Minassian’s rampage.
Now the incels — or at least a portion of them — have a new hero: Canadian self-help guru and angry fussbudget Jordan Peterson,
On Friday. you may recall, the New York Times ran a highly critical profile of Peterson in which the Jung-quoting lobster-hierarchy fetishist offered some thoughts on how to stop young men from taking up guns and vans and massacring as many people as they can. In one of his chats with the Times’ Nellie Bowles — conducted after the Toronto attacks but before Friday’s shooting in Santa Fe — Peterson suggested that the real solution to incel violence is “enforced monogamy.”
Here’s how Bowles described their discussion:
Violent attacks are what happens when men do not have partners, Mr. Peterson says, and society needs to work to make sure those men are married.
“He was angry at God because women were rejecting him,” Mr. Peterson says of the Toronto killer. “The cure for that is enforced monogamy. That’s actually why monogamy emerges.”
Mr. Peterson does not pause when he says this. Enforced monogamy is, to him, simply a rational solution. Otherwise women will all only go for the most high-status men, he explains, and that couldn’t make either gender happy in the end.
“Half the men fail,” he says, meaning that they don’t procreate. “And no one cares about the men who fail.”
I laugh, because it is absurd.
“You’re laughing about them,” he says, giving me a disappointed look. “That’s because you’re female.”
This is the sort of nonsense you might expect in an incel forum, or from some similarly reactionary manosphere hangout. And so it’s hardly a surprise to see many on Incels.me hailing Peterson as a new incel idol. The only real question is what took them so long?
In a post yesterday, one prolific Incels.me commenter brought Peterson’s interview to the attention of his fellow forum regulars, asking “Is Jordan Peterson, our guy?”
More than a few commenters responded with an enthusiastic “yes!”
“What he is saying is exactly what I have always been saying,” declared someone calling himself SaintMarcLepine, the moniker a dark tribute to the Canadian misogynist who murdered 14 women at Montreal’s École Polytechnique in 1989.
RageAgainstTDL was even more enthusiastic:
This is absolutely brilliant. He is forcing mainstream writers and the public to confront the idea of monogamy and explain why feminism has destroyed it for their own chad-hungry desires.
Peterson is contrarian by nature too. He thrives on disagreement. So he won’t let this go. The more feminists argue they have a right to only fuck Chads, the more he will highlight how damaging this is to society.
The tide is turning.
A wannabe philosopher calling himself TheWitchKing pounded out a thousand-word treatise which could be summarized as “lol, Peterson is triggering the femoids.” Here are a few snippets; I’ve removed, among other things, the author’s extended musings on Peterson’s similarity to Loki, the Norse trickster god.
I usually have little use for Peterson or his philosophy, but I can’t help but admire anyone capable of provocation of this magnitude. … Peterson is striking at one of the most precious values of the modern West: the agency of women when it comes to the matter of sexual selection and reproduction.
With this act Peterson has crossed a kind of threshold … The idea of compulsory monogamy is not some idea that will merely inspire outrage among radical feminists and the members of academia surveying the world from the dizzying heights of their ivory towers. Rather, the idea of enforced monogamy is the stuff of nightmares of every modern daughter of the West. …
Informed by the Enlightenment values that championed the freedom of the individual, the sexual revolution was kind of a dawn for women. What Peterson is suggesting would be tantamount to murdering the light of that new day and plunging women back into the prolonged nightmare they believed that had finally escaped. …
Sadly or happily, depending upon your perspective, the amusement to be had at all of the outraged shrieking is the only good thing that’ll come from Peterson’s scandalous idea.
Mikepence made essentially the same point in a few short sentences:
He really got them riled up with this. Femoids cringe at the thought of being within 10 feet of an ugly guy, she can’t imagine actually being in a relationship with one
It’s almost as though incels are less interested in dating and/or marrying women than they are in terrifying them and/or making them miserable.
Animeincel was equally smitten with Peterson:
Yes he is on our side, and his very very smart. He is just not as aggressive yet cause he know media will slaughter him then. He understands the incel problem 100% and I love him.
Like Animeincel, Weed is convinced that Peterson is an incel ally who can’t quite say that outright just yet:
I think Peterson tries to appear as neutral as possible but deep down he is on our side.
nklfdnblidnfbli wondered if Peterson was directly cribbing from him.
i mentioned enforced monogamy in the incelcast, maybe peterson listened to that and got the idea from me? mainly we need it because almost all girls want only chad and chad is polygynous.
While Peterson was a bit vague as to what he meant by “enforced monogamy,” nklfdnblidnfbli was happy to spell out what he himself meant by the term.
here’s how i think it should work
– people can opt in or opt out of enforced monogamy
– if they opt in they pay lower taxes and get free basic income from the govt
– marriage laws must first be overhauled so that men aren’t disadvantaged and family courts are fair
– in enforced monogamy people must be married to have sex, and if you get divorced you have to go through a 6 month waiting period where you are not allowed to have sex, this is to discourage people from getting married and then divorced for every hookup
Huh. That seems a bit, er, elaborate, but I guess it might increase the odds that dudes who hate women and love murderers will eventually have sex.
All this said. there were more than a few in the thread who weren’t quite so excited about Peterson’s incel turn. Some were turned off by Peterson’s paeans to self-improvement — incels dislike being ordered to clean up their rooms, Peterson-style, nearly as much as they hate being told they need a shower.
Others thought Peterson was little more than “controlled opposition,” blaming his recent rise to fame on the machinations of, you guessed it, the (((Jews))). (Of course Peterson isn’t Jewish, and while he’s not a Christian either, he’s a big Jesus fan whose beliefs have been described as similar to Kierkegaard’s “Christian existrntialism.”)
“Peterson is a gatekeeper attempting to keep men from turning to far rightwing ideologies to correct their problems,” declared WarriorSkull.
He does warn women that he constantly sees career women … end up in their 30’s desperate for children and unable to secure a man for obvious reasons. This isn’t sufficient to make much of a dent in the direction our culture has and will continue to head, but the jews will continue promoting him as a “safe” alternative to rabid leftism.
ElliotRodgerHere put it more bluntly:
Jordan peterson is a f*ggot judeophile. fuck him, he is popular among the MGTOW cucks
In a later comment he added that Peterson “has a horribly ugly jewish wife.”
Starystulejarz compared Peterson to other alleged tools-of-the-Jews like Alex Jones and … Richard Spencer?!?
he is (((((controlled opposition))))) like alex jones, mark dice, trump, lauren southern, richard spencer, they will tell you 15-50% truths and rest is misinformation to brainwash you and keep you in state which jews want you to be (not to wake up and swallow blackpill fully)
Apparently this sort of conspiracy theorizing is contagious, as I can’t help but wonder myself if this little chorus of anti-Semites, all of them relatively new members on Incels.me, are part of an alt-right recruitment squad deliberately targeting angry, troubled men.
Another new recruit, a fellow calling himself rabbiter, kicked back hard at the notion that Peterson was “controlled” anything.
People like Jordan Peterson have helped a lot in moving the Overton Window in the last 3 years or so. We need more people like him. Anyone who criticizes him as “controlled opposition” needs to be sent to a North Korean Gulag.
Unfortunately, I think rabbiter is right that Peterson is nudging the Overton Window rightward — and bringing some of the worst ideas that have been floating around in the manosphere into the mainstream. “Enforced monogamy” is probably not the last terrible incel idea Peterson will bring to his growing audience in the next few months and years as he continues to explore his own inner incel.
The sad part is, they’re basing all this on looks. Looks are the wrapping. Yeah, looks help but, attitude and behavior go a much longer way.
They need to take a good look inside and realize they aren’t getting anywhere with women because of who they are. It’s their own attitudes and behaviors that drive women away. Just because you have a penis doesn’t make you entitled to ANY woman, you have to earn it. We aren’t cum dumps, we are autonomous beings with brains who are fully capable of choosing who we want to have sex with. Believe us when we tell you that coming up to us with your sense of entitlement hanging out and thinking that we should just spread our legs because it’s you is a complete turn off and that’s on you, not us.
“So, do these guys realize that in a state of enforced monogamy, they wouldn’t be paired up with super models? Nor would they be able to divorce their wives for getting fat or talking back.”
‘
That’s half the point. Older women who are dumped by their “Chad” husbands for younger “Becky’s” are victims of serial polygamy just as much as Alek Minassian is.
Jennair Gerardot, a well kept up 47 year old “Stacy” found out she was about to be dumped for by her husband. She shot the “Becky” then herself.
Jennair had referred to herself, her husband and their golden lab as “our little family” it seems likely the couple were unable to have children.
If you can’t have any sympathy for autistic incels then at least care about your own older sisters.
You need creative autistics as I and Alek. We fill your stem courses in college and end up your engineers.
Check out the Roger Devlin interview on red ice radio.
@ phil_w
I noticed you posted this story (about Jennair Gerardot) earlier on this older thread, where you also included the statement:
As I noted there, I don’t think “fear of women in particular” is necessarily a symptom of autism, especially as some people on the spectrum *are* women.
While I agree that society has a long way to go in respecting and accepting autistic people, and that we should make that effort, I am unsure how much enforcing monogamy would help (what about autistic people who are asexual/aromantic and uninterested in marrying at all, or who are poly and would benefit if they could have more than one partner legally recognized as family?)
I noticed you posted this story (about Jennair Gerardot) earlier on an older thread, where you also included the statement:
As I noted there, I don’t think “fear of women in particular” is necessarily a symptom of autism, especially as some people on the spectrum *are* women.
While I agree that society has a long way to go in respecting and accepting autistic people, and that we should make that effort, I am unsure how much enforcing monogamy would help (what about autistic people who are asexual/aromantic and uninterested in marrying at all, or who are poly and would benefit if they could have more than one partner legally recognized as family?)
Dumping your partner for another person is not polygamy. Polygamy is having multiple spouses at the same time.
That’s a terrible story, but the vast majority of family annihilators are men. Whatever the gender of the person who kills their family, they are not the victims.
Fuck off. You can’t expand the definition of incel to make every autistic person and every person who is dumped and/or lonely an incel. Incels are a very specific group of people who construct their entire identity around not getting laid and who believe women should be forced into sexual slavery. I have not a shred of sympathy for them. Fuck off and fuck you. Do not conflate my wonderful, kind, non-misogynistic autistic brother with assholes who murder and who cheer on mass murderers and who fantasize about corrective rape and acid attacks. Go roll down an entire mountain composed of Legos.
You are comparing yourself to a mass murderer. We don’t need murderers and murder sympathizers. There are people who do STEM (many of who are regular commenters here) who are not misogynistic murderers.
Seriously. What the hell is wrong with you?
Apologies for the double post — I think the link in the first version kept it in review and I panicked and thought something had gone wrong.
* Has STEM degree
* Has fancy engineer job title
* Isn’t neurotypical
Huh, so why aren’t I single, misogynistic, and a murderer?
To Weirwood:
“Serial Polygamy” is a term coined by George Gilder in his book from the 1970’s, “Naked Nomads”.
Serial polygamy by Gilders definition is the phenomena of older men leaving their wives for younger women.
I spoke with an older divorcee briefly outside the library about 35 years ago. She took a positive outlook, saying “The way I see it I had my husbands best years and now she (the younger woman) is going to have to take care of him in his old age.” Unlike Jennair this woman had two sons.
Also I’m not sure I got my facts across. Jennair was the older woman.
She ambushed and killed the “home wrecker” (that’s an old term for a woman who breaks up another woman’s marriage.) then she shot herself.
When people go to the extreme of killing themselves like Jennair or Elliot Rodger or Alek Minassian trying to “suicide by cop” then we should take time to try and figure out what about their lives made them so desperate.
As to your “F—you comment I was going to say something but have thought better of it. 🙂
Sorry about your brother. If you read a book like “The Depressive Spectrum” of “Mood Swing” you will likely recognize characteristics of many of your family and friends (bi-polars, autistics, schezophrencis, apsbergers, terets syndrome people oftern become friends/spouses).
As to comparing myself to Alek I further understand him. One of his basic training fellow recrutis said Alek was kicked out of the army partly because he didn’t understand what his D.I. wanted him to do. That sounds like what I’ve experienced a few times in recent years. People would speak to me close at hand and I only heard jiberish. At first I thought it must be a mild stroke but I learned better from the autism web site.
Also Aleks use of military terms seemed to me to be indicative of his still wanting to be in the Army. I think it’s because we want to feel we have a home. In recent months I’ve taken to remarking that my enlistment lasted longer than my marriage. I was married just short of three years from age 45 to 48.
Even in a peace time army men tend to bond due to shared suffering. Lack of sleep and cold plus harassment by officers does that.
As to what is wrong with me, I’m a creative bi-polar/autistic.
To Moon_Cus:
incel was a shortening of a term coined by a woman incel in the 1990’s. She used the term invcel including the letter “v” from “involuntary”.
All autistics aren’t incel’s, but as the autism speaks site says “if you’ve met one autistic you’ve mean an autitstic” , i.e. there is a wide spectrum of conditions/reactions in the group.
I do believe I read some where that most autistics are boys, not girls.
I could be wrong on that.
I’m trying to link up with some of these people on the incel sites. I want to show them that there is a better way than suicide or murder or both. Particularly I would like them to form a political/cultural alliance with the Jennair’s of our world.
To Kupo:
At a guess you are female. Women don’t murder or kill themselves. (exception of Jennair Gerardot noted)
@ Phil W
They’ll tell you to fuck off. Offers of help or advice are anathema to incels. They wallow in their self imposed misery.
But if you are going to waste your time offering sympathy to incels, it is certainly better you do it in their own spaces, rather than that of their victims.
Autism Speaks is aligned with the anti-vax movement. It’s trash. This makes me think the book I’ve never heard of from the 70s is probably quackery.
It still doesn’t explain what men divorcing their spouses for younger women has to do with incel violence. Incel as a movement is far removed from what the original term meant. Dictionary type trolling is not going to save you from your murder apologia.
And did you really just try to mansplain my family to me?
Oh, and I used swear words because it is wrong to blame misogynist violence on autism. This hurts my brother and I am very protective of him.
Ok. Why have two comments disappeared. This site is becoming unusable.
Eta. There they are. What the hell?
At Alan:
They’ve not let me on incel.me yet. I know it’s not going to be easy, rather like taming a wild animal.
I’m trying to get everyone away from trashing/killing each other.
“Blessed are the peace makers”
Also it should be pointed out that “incel” means “involuntary celibate”, not “murderer” or “suicide”.
I am an incel, but old age dulls the pain thankfully. It still hurts to fall on the cross bar of your bike though :- (
To Weirwood:
Autism is one of a spectrum of mental states which includes manic-depression.
Van Gough was a depressive who took a pot shot at his friend a couple of days before he killed himself, so yes in part I blame Alek Minassian on his autism.
I didn’t mansplain, I eldersplained young whipper snapper.
And don’t show your brother these post.
If that was meant to be a joke it was in poor taste, at best. I advise you put down the shovel for a bit.
Seriously, stop. Just stop.
Serial Polygamy seems to be synonymous with Serial Monogamy, except most Google hits seem to go to Conservative/Patriarchal/Christian sites. I suppose it is just a way to reference the phenomena without denigrating their beloved term of monogamy.
To Weirwood:
“It still doesn’t explain what men divorcing their spouses for younger women has to do with incel violence.”
You are old enough so it’s time to have the birds and the bees talk.
Men have something called a “sex drive”. It comes in second to their survival instinct. Sometimes I’m not so sure of that.
Male sex drive powers the sex worker industry. That’s a lot of money.
Woman have a pseudo sex drive, so explaining men’s motivations to them in physicals terms is not easy.
o.k., lets take dogs for instance. Dogs have an instinct to chase prey.
Anything that runs they will chase. Same with cats since you seem to be a cat lady. (lots of bi-polar women are cat lady’s).
Any way what would you think would happen to a dog if you chained him to a tree then kept dropping live rabbits and squirrels in front of him? Continue doing this for years.
What happens when older men dump their wives and marry younger women is there is created a shortage of young women for the pool of young men. So the shortage of young women drives the less able young men over the edge. We get violence.
After many generations of this society will invent monogamy. Problem solved or at least lessened.
You might want to check out the Roger Devlin interview on youtube at red ice radio.
@phil_w:
This is the most hilariously wrong mansplaining I’ve seen in a long time. Perhaps unsurprising, since you are probably fguy’s latest sock.
Emailed David.
To Sonny:
I take it “mansplain” means a man trying to “explain” something to a feminist that he reasonably shouldn’t know anything about.
As I’m an elder I suppose I’ve had more time to experience life than most here.
That’s why the constitution doesn’t allow for a young whipper snapper to hold the office of POTUS.
To Pits:
Naked Nomads: Unmarried Men in America (1974) by George Gilder
Polygamy creates a shortage of young women for young men.
In the fundamentalist Mormon movement the problem was solved (at least for the fundamentalist community) by driving the excess young men out into the normal world.
That just moved the problem into the lap of the normal denominations that practiced monogamy.
Think about it.
And now the site is eating my comments again.
@David: I see you have been online because there’s a new blog post by you since last night. Unfortunately, it seems that while you were logged in you forgot to roll back the software configuration of this site to Wednesday’s, and as a consequence, the post eating, post duplicating, and form field blanking problems caused by Thursday’s configuration changes are continuing to afflict the commenters here.
Please revert the software configuration immediately to what it was on Wednesday, the day before these problems began. Whatever changes you made on Thursday are proving to be not all they were cracked up to be. The site’s functionality is indisputably worse, rather than better, for them.
Thank you.
You were the one who posted: “The minute I heard that Alek was an incel I knew he must be autistic as I am only much more so.”
I am the one who posted: “(what about autistic people who are asexual/aromantic and uninterested in marrying at all, or who are poly and would benefit if they could have more than one partner legally recognized as family?)”
Why are you the one quoting “If you’ve met one autistic you’ve met an autistic” at me?
It’s beginning to look as though it tends to be overlooked in girls: http://www.bbc.com/news/health-37221030 (one link — google “autism under-diagnosed in girls” and “social camouflage autism’ and you’ll find other articles).
To STROOTVBWE:
I’ll take hilarious as a compliment.
Gotta run: my escort is waiting:
I’m under police protection from leftist. Wouldn’t you know.
@Surplus
It might not be anything David did. Could be WordPress or some other framework he’s using. Be patient. He’s been made aware and issues like this aren’t usually as simple as rolling back.