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Santa Fe school shooting open thread

School shooting suspect Dimitrios Pagourtzis posted a picture of this t-shirt on Facebook

By David Futrelle

Another horrific school shooting, this time in Santa Fe. Ten students are dead, ten more are injured. The alleged shooter, 17-year-old Dimitrios Pagourtzis, is in custody; another student has also been detained. So far there is no clear motive beyond a desire to kill; he recently posted a photo of a duster emblazoned with an assortment of symbols, including an Iron Cross and a hammer and sickle.

Here’s a thread to discuss this tragedy and its broader context. No trolls.

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Anna Nyms
Anna Nyms
6 years ago

It looks like he was gunning for the ex-girlfriend, she was in the art class he stormed.

Jen
Jen
6 years ago

Off-topic, but I used to have a cockatiel named Kupo. D;

Back on topic:
I knew when Sandy Hook happened that this was going to become a new normal. When we saw children killed and America just collectively shrugged, went “oh well, these things happen, have some thoughts and prayers,” it was obvious that it was going to get worse. And that’s what’s happening. These kids are becoming heroes to other kids who also are angry, don’t know how to redirect that emotion, and blame everyone else but themselves. And this is exactly the same thing with the incel shooters.
And let’s face it, this is still not even the worst. We have people like Jordan Peterson feeding that belief of white men being victims and being entitled to rectify it. We have a society that thinks more guns will help. We have people trying to blame it all on mental illness so they’re ignoring the angry people with entitlement issues in favor of looking at those of us with depression, anxiety, schizophrenia, etc. as the cause of fear. We have this “us vs. them” mentality from the white house and the voters that are pretty much white Christians vs. every other minority. =/

Mels
Mels
6 years ago

I’m so fucking tired.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
6 years ago

I don’t think Trump will win again, but is Sanders going to run again? He’s the only one I see popular enough (currently) to completely oust a Rebuplican candidate. … Maybe this time a third party will emerge victorious.

Oh just fuck off forever. This bullshit is one of the reasons why we’re in this mess and you know it, you blithering imbecile of a troll.

Contrapangloss
Contrapangloss
6 years ago

I don’t have access to non-work internet at work, and I just found out about this.

Of course, the first mention of it (radio, at the beginning of a 30 minute drive) didn’t say the town name, and I have a former roommate who’s a high school teacher in Texas and my sister’s boyfriend is a teacher in Texas and I spent 30 minutes being worried that one of them might be dead.

They’re safe, in completely different towns, but I wouldn’t wish that fear on anyone.

I can’t imagine how the actual kiddos and teachers at that school felt, or their parents who were waiting to find out if their child was okay.

If anyone here knows anyone in that community or IS a member of that community, you have ALL my empathy.

Attending school is supposed to be the least dangerous thing kids do, dammit.

Moggie
Moggie
6 years ago

Please don’t let Idli derail this thread.

foxtrotsky
foxtrotsky
6 years ago

David, could you remove the shooter’s name from the post?

I think it’s the Sandy Hook parents who have requested that media not publicize shooters’ names; they claim that there’s a real copycat effect and that making shooters famous is harmful for that reason.

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
6 years ago

@Mels
Hugs. Hope you feel better soon.

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy

@Moggie,

Please don’t let Idli derail this thread.

It would certainly be a nice change, even more so given the actual thread subject.
(I’m not directing any criticism towards people who’ve been engaging with them, I hasten to add).

IBH Ardipithecus
IBH Ardipithecus
6 years ago

*No offense to Death: When you arrive at the right time & in the right way, you rock!

DO YOU THINK I ENJOY SHOWING UP AT THE WHIM OF THESE NAZI/RACIST/MISOGYNIST (DELETE AS APPROPRIATE) DOUCHECANOES?

Samantha Kaswell
Samantha Kaswell
6 years ago

When a culture stands by and allows its children to be cannibalized…sacrificed on the altars of money, rights or whatever… it signals, to me, that the culture is rapidly derailing. What really horrifies me is that we have huge numbers of people on the one hand who genuinely seek realistic, healing solutions, and a corporate government on the other hand whose members see this violence as a justification to INCREASE militaristic, police state reactions. In some cases, they actually point the accusing finger at the victims and their friends and families.

I, like many of us, have no immediate answers. I do sense, however, that we are swiftly reaching a turning point and that a large part of the answers has to do with us waking up…refusing to obey…learning to trust that our deepest instincts may very well be what leads us out of this darkness.

A man named Eric Frank Russell wrote, many years ago, a story called “And Then There Were None.” It can be found, free, on the Internet. All I will say about it is that the following phrase from it forms a major cornerstone of my philosophy: FREEDOM=I WON’T

Violet the Vile, Wielder of an Ideologically Weaponized Vagina
Violet the Vile, Wielder of an Ideologically Weaponized Vagina
6 years ago

I’m so sorry to read about this.

I’m not American, so all I can do is watch this madness. I have so much sympathy for all of you. I just do not understand all this business about guns – the only time I’ve ever seen a gun in person was the time I went on holiday to America and we stepped off the plane into the visa bit and there was a customs woman with some kind of huge rifle shouting “keep behind the yellow line”. It was terrifying. Like if you put a foot wrong, you’d be dead. Which I suppose is true.

I remember I was flicking through Pinterest once and I came across this girl’s profile. She had a board she called “Girlie Stuff” and in among all the bags and lipsticks there was a picture of a bright pink handgun. I just stared at it. I thought “That’s fucked up”.

I don’t honestly know what to say about this any more.

Moon Custafer
Moon Custafer
6 years ago

@IBH Ardepithecus:

DO YOU THINK I ENJOY SHOWING UP AT THE WHIM OF THESE NAZI/RACIST/MISOGYNIST (DELETE AS APPROPRIATE) DOUCHECANOES?

That reminds me of Ullmann and Kien’s The Emperor of Atlantis, an opera that was literally written in a concentration camp — it’s about a tyrant whose excesses finally drive Death to go on strike.

Nanny Oggs Bosom
Nanny Oggs Bosom
6 years ago

I’ve been avoiding the news for a few weeks (brain weasels!), so this is an unpleasant shock to come back to. Kinda trying not to cry. I don’t know what’s worse, those poor children dying or the utter lack of shock that it’s happened again, and nobody with power to change things is going to do a damn thing about it.

Completely off-topic:
Hi everyone, long time no comment. Hope you’re feeling better soon, David.
Also, in personal news, I got my diagnosis last Thursday (10th May) – it’s official now, I are autist. Bit of a relief, to say the least. I’m being referred to the local adult autism service for support worker services. So I might get some help eventually.
I have started my MA dissertation, and now know more than I ever thought I’d need to know about how the Coroner’s Service works. I’m writing a crime novel set in Lincoln for the creative part, I’ve got 9000 of the 13,000 words written. Just got to keep going.
And, after seeing a recommendation on here for Cordelia Fine’s books, I have read Delusions of Gender, absolutely loved it and want her other books. I’m going to tell my sisters to get them for me for my birthday, I think.

Fluffy Spider
Fluffy Spider
6 years ago

I’m not sure this will contribute but here’s a poem I wrote about the prevalence of shootings.
It contains violence, swearing, other dark situations so if this is disturbing I’d suggest scrolling past

The sound of guns
By Fluffy Spider
I hear a rapping on TV the sound of projectile killing,
The politicians up above sit docile and unwilling,
We plead to them to save our kids and stop the mass annihilation,
Our words hit fake deaf ears an continue the tribulation,
They Care when I want to stop birth but not the schoolyard madness,
Their guns mean more to their selfish whims then the sounds of screaming sadness,
Their rifles are their children dear and we are just in their way,
No one is safe from the bitter end but can’t they live today,
I see a world where blood streams down and their voices mock it,
And bitch about the lack of guns and other pandering bullshit,
They say they’d be a hero true but they dodged the draft last time,
To worship the dollar bill and build it a gilded shrine,
The sound of guns draws nearer still can’t we fucking stop it?
To protect our people young and old and not fucking mock it?
The bullets will hit and you’ll do nothing I don’t why I ask,
So I’ll just say with heavy heart what will you do when you’re the last?


A bit morbid but honestly it’s how I feel

IBH Ardipithecus
IBH Ardipithecus
6 years ago

@Fluffy Spider – do you mind if I share that elsewhere?

PS – should there be a “know” before “why” in the second to last line?

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy

@Nanny Oggs Bosom

Wow, that’s huge news, on several fronts. Diagnosis, MA, more book writing, wow. I hope everything works out for you!

Fluffy Spider
Fluffy Spider
6 years ago

@IBH Ardipithicus
Feel free and yes there should be…

Fluffy Spider
Fluffy Spider
6 years ago

@IBH Ardipithicus
Feel free and yes there should be..

Sheila Crosby
Sheila Crosby
6 years ago

@Nanny Oggs Bosom
Congrats on the diagnosis. I hope you can finally get some help now. If itneeds saying, you’re a little different, no broken.

I’ll look forward to seeing your crime novel. I’m writing one set in an astronomical observatory in the Canary Islands. There are such good ways to kill people in a professional telescope.