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From the Archives: Candace Owens meets Gamergate — and things get weird

Candace Owens: Has a thing for terrible dudes

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By David Futrelle

Candace Owens — self-proclaimed “Red Pill Black” conservative — is having a bit of a moment, hanging out with new Trump fan Kanye West, posing for selfies with Don Jr., getting an effusive Twitter shout-out from Don Sr,, threatening to sue people who talk about her in what she considers the wrong way.

A lot of people have been left wondering just where exactly Owens came from. Well, there’s a bit of a story there.

Long-time readers of this blog first met Owens back in the days of Gamergate, after Zoe Quinn criticized her ill-conceived plan for an “anti-bullying” site that would have basically doxed a bunch of teenagers. After Quinn spoke out, Gamergaters spouting conspiracy theories quickly abandoned their own critiques of Owens and  rallied around her. Owens began spouting conspiracy theories of her own, and, well, let’s just say things got very weird very fast, as they generally seem to do when Owens gets involved in anything.

In several posts, I tried my best to make sense of the whole surreal mess. I’m linking them here because I think they may illuminate a few things about Trump World’s newest heroine.

Social Autopsy founder Candace Owens channels GamerGate in bizarre attack on Zoe Quinn (APRIL 20, 2016)

This post describes what happened immediately after Owens first heard from Quinn. Trust me, the headline (and the snippet from the post below) don’t fully capture the weirdness of the story.

Instead of listening to Quinn, Owens declared war on her, spewing forth dozens of angry and accusatory tweets, charging that Quinn and fellow anti-harassment activist Randi Harper … were somehow the puppetmasters behind a barrage of abusive, threatening, and often blatantly racist anonymous messages that Owens (who is black) started getting not long after news of Owens’ plans hit Reddit and 4chan.

Owens quickly began to sound like every other internet crackpot who sees conspiracies in every Twitter mention.

SocialAutopsy-Turvy: Candace Owens’ Twitter Trainwreck, Part One
 (APRIL 24, 2016)

And quite a trainwreck it was. The story continued to get weirder, and at such a pace that I never had a chance to write part two.

In furious post, SocialAutopsy’s Candace Owens attacks a WashPo story that isn’t there APRIL 25, 2016

In this episode, Owens writes an angry diatribe against an article she imagined that Washington Post writer Caitlin Dewey had written about her. No, really. She accused Dewey and her editor of attempting to libel her in an article that the Post never published and that as far as I know Dewey never even wrote.

Giddy Gamergater: Will Candace Owens show the world that we’ve been right all along? (APRIL 28, 2016)

Naturally, Gamergaters were thrilled to have such an, er, original thinker on their side.

NOTE TO READERS: Sorry for being MIA the last couple of days; I’ve been dealing with the double whammy of migraines and some really nasty lower back pain. Doing a little better today.

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Jesalin: Clit-o-centric Lesbian Goddess
Jesalin: Clit-o-centric Lesbian Goddess
3 years ago

Due to atmospheric carbon dioxide levels exceeding 400ppm, “normal” has been suspended until further notice and the rule for weather anywhere is “anything goes”. 😛

Prays for a rain of chocolate caramels!!

kupo
kupo
3 years ago

Even if a writer intends their work to be apolitical, that doesn’t necessarily make it so. Their unexamined assumptions can make a political point.

Bingo.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
3 years ago

I see your March snowmageddon, and raise you a highly destructive ice storm … in April.

PaganReader - Misandrist Spinster

OT, but if there are any trans mammotheers from Ontario, then I have good news! Ontario is waiving the fees to change your sex designation on your birth certificate! Until April 2019.
https://mobile.twitter.com/doncwrites/status/994266821955084288/photo/1

PaganReader - Misandrist Spinster

Prays for a rain of chocolate caramels!!

Seconding

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
3 years ago

@wwth, I hope Dracy is ok now. You’re a good cat mum 🙂

Weird weather is everywhere, it seems. The cold weather has finally remembered that it’s 2 weeks to winter here, so it’s slightly chilly. Although to be fair the northern four season model never suited Aust. anyway. Indigenous people have different models for seasons here, which make a lot more sense.

Speaking of music (well, IP mentioned Kanye, so that’ll do), I cannot stop watching this:

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
3 years ago

Ah, “This Is America.” I smiled at the 40-second mark, because that’s the “Forest Whitaker” face Glover used to great effect in an early episode of Community.

That was the last time I smiled while watching the video. The layers of lyrics and visuals blew me away, and the combined effect blew my mind.

idli sambar
idli sambar
3 years ago

Since the n-word came up here I’ll jump in with that I was recently accused of using it. I wrote “negroes with guns” in a comment about guns and the NRA and referencing this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negroes_with_Guns

I was accused of using the n-word. . I then responded with the above link but don’t know if that comment was ever released from moderation. The last time I checked it had not been and I’ve since moved on. But since the topic again came up here recently thought I would address it. Also, negro is not the n-word.

I understand that maybe most of the readers here may have never heard the term “negroes with guns” and have no idea what it refers to. However “google is a thing”.

Related, I just came across this twitter post;

When someone disagrees with you online & demands you prove your point to their satisfaction by writing a logically sound defense, u can save a lot of time by not doing that.

Dude, I’ve known u for ten seconds & enjoyed none of them, I’m not taking homework assignments from you.

And below it someone replied

I usually respond, “Google is a thing”.

So yeah.

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
3 years ago

The cold weather has finally remembered that it’s 2 weeks to winter here, so it’s slightly chilly.

“Slightly chilly” is one way of putting it. “I’m wearing three layers of clothes, under two blankets and wrapped around a wheat bag and a cat with the heater on full blast AND I’M STILL COLD” is another. =P

cornychips
cornychips
3 years ago

Hey idli,

Are you really stamping your feet in response to using a slur? Why bring it up. You know you cause people to grumble here but you gotta just keep being ick. You say you are too busy to be part of the community but have no problem defending your problematic behavior over and over.

Binjabreel
Binjabreel
3 years ago

Oh, man, I can’t stop thinking about This is America.

It’s a goddamned work of art. The super narrow depth of field makes it almost impossible to focus on anything but the action in the foreground. Everything about it is just fucking spectacular. I mean, he’s even doing the literal Jim Crow dance.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

@idli

When someone disagrees with you online & demands you prove your point to their satisfaction by writing a logically sound defense, u can save a lot of time by not doing that

Maybe somebody asked you to do homework? I mostly saw people asking you to shut up tho…

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

I don’t remember anyone falsely accusing Idli of using a slur. I’m pretty sure it was just objection to the notion that we’ll finally get reasonable gun control if black people all pick up guns.

Tashilicious
3 years ago

Can they stop using the that there term though? Methinks they protest too much about their not using slurs as an excuse to keep using them and protesting too much.

Catalpa
Catalpa
3 years ago

Since the n-word came up here I’ll jump in with that I was recently accused of using it.

“Hey, people are discussing the usage of a slur/reclaimed word that targets people not of my demographic. What a great time to make the discussion all about MEEEEE!”

Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
3 years ago

sunnysombrera:

As a tourist this is ideal weather for me! Better than England right now. Though if I go back with a slight tan it’ll be weird to say “I got this in Finland.” 😋

Granted the UK bank holiday weekend was also a glorious weather phenomenon (more than makes up for the snowpocalypse we had in March) so I can safely say I’ve had a happily hot two weeks or so.

Funny coincidence. My sister and her partner were visiting England around a week ago, feeling slightly overheated by the weather. Now they’re back here in Helsinki 🙂

Generally speaking, this time of year the weather in South Finland isn’t much colder than in England. In the North, snow melt is still under way, which cools down the weather and delays growth season. Right now the snow is reportedly melting unusually fast, making the rivers flood in the far north.

Pie
Pie
3 years ago

Unrelated to the OP, but related to tedious old trolls:

http://chainsawsuit.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/20180514_hires.png

Scott Adams hasn’t featured much on here of late (yay!) so I’ll post this now because I’ll probably forget by the time that particular turd floats back up to the surface.

Pie
Pie
3 years ago

And in other less entertaining news,

Kansas was one of 33 states where consensual sex between police and people in their custody wasn’t a crime.

http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article210902319.html

I am shocked, shocked to learn that police officers abused this particular loophole.

Moggie
Moggie
3 years ago

Kris Straub is updating chainsawsuit again? I hope it lasts, this time.

Holy shit, that Kansas story. And there are 32 other states where it’s still legal?

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
3 years ago

re: Kansas….

And in other less entertaining news,

Saw that on the Wichita news channel… as conservative as that commentator is, I was surprised they weren’t mourning the law making it illegal!!!

Holy shit, that Kansas story. And there are 32 other states where it’s still legal?

(/s)

WE’RE NOT LAST!!! WE’RE NOT LAST!!! YAAAYYYYYYY

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
3 years ago

@SFHC

Sounds cosy! I can’t remember if you’re much further south than me, or maybe we just have different levels of cold tolerance (I whinge all through summer about the heat). I know that Croquembouche is up north, so she’s probably still in T-shirt and shorts at this stage 🙂

Re This is America: apparently Alex Jones has claimed that Childish Gambino is performing voodoo or something in the clip. Mwahaha.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
3 years ago

Off-topic

https://slate.com/human-interest/2018/05/trans-terminologys-constant-evolution-is-good-for-everyone.html

Understanding what the trans community is trying to assert and defend can help everyone—cisgender folks included—comprehend what gender is, where it comes from, and how it operates. These are important lessons in a time where the deadly workings of culturally valorized, indeed “toxic,” masculinity are more evident than ever

solecism
solecism
3 years ago

@Mish

Thank you for sharing that Childish Gambino video. It was amazing!

Katamount
Katamount
3 years ago

@PaganReader

OT, but if there are any trans mammotheers from Ontario, then I have good news! Ontario is waiving the fees to change your sex designation on your birth certificate! Until April 2019.

Hurrah!

*sigh* Just wish the rest of the damned populace would wake up to Doug Ford’s obvious charlatanism.

But in honour of Douglas Ford’s discovery of who Margaret Atwood is, I’d like to take the opportunity to highlight just how freakin’ amazing the Toronto Public Library system is. According to Wiki, as of 2008, it boasted the highest circulation in the world, with more than 12 million items in its collection. While I personally may have been lax in my library visits during my 20s, I intend to correct that during the summer with visits to other branches, particularly the Toronto Reference Library downtown and a new branch opened in 2010 near the old Scarborough Civic Centre where I used to work as a file clerk.

As the article I linked indicates, the primary drivers of that circulation are recent immigrants, likely ones who have English as a second language and are seeking to better their understanding of it through reading… which kinda underscores the hypocrisy of those who want to hate on immigrants for not “assimilating” (read: using their own languages in conversation), but at the same time want to take an axe to public services like the local library system. Libraries are the hallmark of civilization and they should be cherished as such.

I also find it endlessly amusing that for all the jibber-jabber those “Intellectual Dunce Web” tools do about “ideas,” the one thing they specifically don’t tell their dullard fanbase is to actually go out and learn things by reading books at libraries. Clearly tools of Neo-Marxists, no doubt….

As an aside, I might be a minority position, but I wasn’t all that awed by This Is America. Granted I’m not American, but I saw all sorts of hype and memes on Twitter, then watched the video and was like “Okay… huh… interesting… was that it?” Which is probably more telling about me and my relationship to hype than anything, but I wasn’t as blown away by it (no pun intended) as others clearly were.

Song was catchy though. Kinda envisioning a Canadian version rapped by one of our esteemed artists like Kardinal Offishall or an aboriginal hip-hop artist like A Tribe Called Red. It could be called “Welcome to Canada” and have the artist incorporating poignant and confrontational imagery about police carding, Colton Boushie, Kanesatake, the Quebec Mosque shooting or the Highway of Tears.

Much better than that awful Nicole Arbour version…….. thanks for her, Hamilton. Ya jerks…..

Pie
Pie
3 years ago

@Moggie

Holy shit, that Kansas story. And there are 32 other states where it’s still legal?

Not clear. Apparently the number seems to have arisen from a buzzfeed article back in february, but I don’t think they were careful to check for both “cops can’t fuck people they’ve detained” and “people who have been arrested can’t consent to sex with the people who arrested them”.

There’s a key quote though,

Of at least 158 law enforcement officers charged since 2006 with sexual assault, sexual battery, or unlawful sexual contact with somebody under their control, at least 26 have been acquitted or had charges dropped based on the consent defense

Unfortunately, they didn’t mention any specifics of those 26 cases, and though they did mention their source (http://projects.buffalonews.com/abusing-the-law/data.html#) I haven’t found anything that seems to match what buzzfeed were talking about. I didn’t spend too long searching though, as reading through news articles about police sexually assaulting people is hard going 🙁

PeeVee the Tired
PeeVee the Tired
3 years ago

“I also wish every African American citizen of legal gun purchasing age (what is that age, by the way?) would go out and buy a few guns each. Maybe even form a “NRA” (Negro Rifle Association) lobby (sarcastic spin on the old racist “negros with guns” trope).

We all know this would bring gun control to pass in like under a month because there’s nothing these gun toters fear more than n-w-g’s.

See Reagan and the Black Panthers for some historical background.”

Idli’s original post.

Moon Custafer
Moon Custafer
3 years ago

I’ve been puzzled by the police/consent story since I first heard of it, because it seems to me there’s absolutely no justification for it — even if, for the sake of argument, someone *could* give meaningful consent to sex with the police holding them in jail, wouldn’t the police be soliciting/accepting bribes by having sex with prisoners?

PeeVee the Tired
PeeVee the Tired
3 years ago

And what is hilarious about Denizcan James’ tweet that idli quoted is that it was plagiarized from a Tumblr account, “pervocracy”, run by a fantastic former WHTM commenter, Cliff Pervocracy. (Old time readers will recognize Cliff’s name.)

bluecat
bluecat
3 years ago

Hope your back and head continue to improve, David!

Backs are a nuisance – seems it was a mistake to go for bipedalism after all. I’m doing quite a lot on the allotment at the moment and the back (and ankles and knees) are complaining constantly.

We went from freeze, snow, frost, more snow to a heatwave in 4 weeks, so all the weeds had just been lurking and waiting to leap into action and it was too cold to plant the things we want to eat.

So now the weeds are leaping and we are planting as fast as we can… all the spuds in as of this morning, but that’s very late, and some of the peas planted and defended with holly leaves. None came up last year, and I suspect it was some hungry little persons with twitchy noses, whiskers and long thin tails. Those same persons seem to have eaten the onions I planted in January, but they must be vampire rats, because they haven’t touched the garlic.

Re: Turning Point – if I hadn’t been watching Comedy Central I’d never have heard of Turning Point, and now I’m seeing truly awful memes appearing on friends’ facebook feeds and in discussion groups. Things like “hey, peasants: be grateful to your feudal overlord” (seriously: that got shared on a history thread I follow, of all things).

In other news: I’m helping organise the East Anglian storytelling festival (near Ipswich, 15th – 17th June) and it’s going to be utterly brilliant.

Otherwise… life is a bit crappy at the moment, overall. The Beloved has been diagnosed with Parkinsons disease, we are both unbelievably skint and I have no work this summer. Hey ho.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
3 years ago

More commentary on Bari Weiss’ “Poor Little Right-Wing Media” fluff piece, as well as commentary on others whose “mellow” we’re harshing…

https://slate.com/technology/2018/05/the-intellectual-dark-web-and-the-alt-right-dont-blame-the-social-justice-internet-for-these-bigots.html

as if it’s the cacophony of the left that made people decide to embrace outright hate or tribalism and not the impulses and prejudices they already carry.

Masse_Mysteria
Masse_Mysteria
3 years ago

re: Finland in May

Other people already answered to the original question, but I’d like to add that we’ve had wonky weather this year even before this heat wave. Just when you’d have expected the rather warm winter to taper into something resembling spring, the temperature dropped more than it had all winter, and snow was everywhere.

I don’t think I’d be surprised if we now get snow for midsummer, followed by an intense week of forest fires, and then just cold rain until September, when there’ll be summer again or something. I like all the seasons, but I prefer them in the usual order.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

as if it’s the cacophony of the left that made people decide to embrace outright hate or tribalism and not the impulses and prejudices they already carry.

Isn’t it amazing how the people who belong to the political ideology that preaches personal responsibility never, ever, ever take any responsibility for themselves?

I seriously can’t think of a single time I’ve ever seen a conservative public figure hold themselves accountable for one single choice they make. Not once.

It’s also amazing that the right has the White House, the US House, the US Senate, several governor seats and state legislatures, the SCOTUS and the so-called liberal media outlets like CNN and NYT constantly bend over backwards to be sympathetic to their racism, misogyny, and xenophobia and it’s not enough. They still manage to have a persecution complex. I guess as long as anyone is allowed to publicly disagree with them or publish news pieces that aren’t right wing propaganda, they will always see themselves as the victims. No matter how much they are the bullies, as long as someone, somewhere is fighting back, they are justified in saying and doing anything. No matter how horrific. And these are the people who claim to be for freedom!

It’s such an abuser mentality. Look what you made me do!

idli sambar
idli sambar
3 years ago

Hey, people are discussing the usage of a slur/reclaimed word that targets people not of my demographic.

That’s a huge assumption. And an incorrect one at that.

PaganReader - Misandrist Spinster

Re: Kansas
This article has an (out of date) map where it is (was) legal. I’ll try to find a more updated one.
Edit: that one is the BuzzFeed map
Edit 2: feministing has an article from February 2018 with the same map.

PaganReader - Misandrist Spinster

Addendum to my previous comment re Kansas: It’s less that it’s legal, and more that it’s not explicitly illegal. So a loophole, that Kansas has just closed.

Cats In Shiny Hats
Cats In Shiny Hats
3 years ago

Ugh, the incel is back on my Ace forum, now claiming that some people say they are Ace but are actually incel. He’s like a tumer that wants desperately to grow and become cancer.

kupo
kupo
3 years ago

@Masse_Mysteria
I love your ‘nym

Tashi Licious
3 years ago

@Idli

And 1/16 Cherokee?

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

I thought she was saying she was Asian and that’s why it’s okay to say problematic things about Asians. Now I guess she’s black and that’s why it’s okay to say problematic things about black people. So yeah, the great grandma was a Cherokee princess thing is probably impending.

I mean, not that someone can’t be biracial black and Asian, but it just seems awfully convenient that the black thing is just coming up now.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

@WWTH
She’s vaguely implied blackness before. I tend to pick up on these things 😛 Figured I mighta been picking up a false positive, but, whatever, @idli being black wouldn’t surprise me nor would I find it suspicious. Just, it doesn’t matter is the thing

She’s wrong. I mean, her idea (getting black people armed in order to bring about gun control) is terrible in so many ways, but the biggest one is that she uses past examples. That is, it’s been done before. And yet here we are. So… not exactly a rousing success

That being said, just my $.02, I’m far less put off by the use of the word (which I don’t see as 100% a slur anyway, but ymmv) than the use of the word. An NRA pun… really? Fuck outta here!

kupo
kupo
3 years ago

She’s vaguely implied a lot of things wjen it’s convenient for her. Whether they’re true or not, she’s just using them to get a pass on being problematic and/or toxic.

Catalpa
Catalpa
3 years ago

That’s a huge assumption. And an incorrect one at that.

My assumption was based on the fact that you responded to people pushing back on you for stereotyping Asians by claiming to be Asian. I assumed that you would also respond to people reacting negatively to you using an n-slur by also going “nuh uh! It’s not offensive because I’m black!” if you were black as well as Asian.

(Also your weird fixation with bashing Hinduism gave me the impression you were not African American, since I assumed that African Americans generally have limited interaction with Hinduism as a faith. It’s entirely possible to be black and NOT African American, of course, but the n-word slurs spread massively during American slavery and are often used against black Americans. I suppose I’m splitting hairs, really, and it’s not like the slurs haven’t been exported worldwide at this point.)

Perhaps I was premature. Sorry.

Katiekitten420
Katiekitten420
3 years ago

Catalpa, I appreciate your comment( plus a few other people who have weighed in) Idli just seems disingenuous to me whether or not she is black. I’m black (well half and half white mother black father but I am very well aware that Society doesn’t care and sees me as black)I consider myself biracial but I also consider myself black and I don’t think that’s a contradiction.

The thing is I feel uncomfortable with that word personally. I spent my formative years among mostly white people and I just feel odd saying it. But I have intelligent educated black friends who do use the n-word judiciously. I see no problem with that. Not gratuitously, not for shock value, only when they think it is appropriate and there is no other word that will convey the concept that they are trying to get across as well.

But the people I’m referring to in addition to obviously being black they realize there are certain places and times and communities where it is inappropriate. I would say this site is definitely one of them. Okay I kind of lost my train of thought I had a point but I think I smoked a bit too much weed. It’s partially I don’t care whether she is black or not, what she’s saying is still inappropriate in my opinion.

I haven’t been commenting much lately because I’m avoiding the internet a lot. My psychiatrist says and I agree and so does my boyfriend that it has an unhealthily strong effect on my mood sometimes. I don’t know if anyone here reads The Root, a black news website. I recommend it highly if anyone’s interested. All the blank while black cases, especially the one at Yale(actual literally not figuratively literally)made me physically ill and the f****** atrocities in Israel plus all the other insanity and I just can’t right now so I’m just chilling and reading fantasy novels for a while.

Rereading the Kushiel’s Dart Saga at the moment.(anyone here read that? It’s fucking awesome. But if BDSM distresses you you will not enjoy it)Its one of my favorite books not because of technical skill although Jacqueline Carey is definitely a decent writer but because I read it when I was 14 and it helped me understand myself. I really didn’t know what BDSM was. I had just recently lost my virginity and learned I like really rough sex and it made me feel very uncomfortable. I thought I was a freak and this book helped me so I have deep nostalgia for it. I hope everyone’s doing well and David I hope you feel better. Have a nice day everyone.

rugbyyogi
rugbyyogi
3 years ago

A nice piece in the New Yorker on the rage of the incel. https://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/the-rage-of-the-incels

Nothing in it that regular readers won’t know, but good nonetheless.

I do wonder about my ex (well, still technically husband). I was discussing property and our son’s inheritance with him recently and said that I wouldn’t be having any more children, but I didn’t know about him. He said he wouldn’t be, that he was no good at relationships. I can attest to that. He sounded bitter.

As I’ve discussed before he’s gone down the alt-right rabbit hole. If he were younger, he’d be prime ‘incel’ material. He bemoaned the fact that he couldn’t find a romantic partner, that he could get dates (he doesn’t seem so bad on paper, job, proof of past relationships, he writes well) but that they all resulted in platonic friendships. The ‘friendzone’ – though he didn’t use that word. Given the generally liberal attitudes of most women in London, I wonder even about the friendzone. He frequently drops little bigotry bon mots and tells that he’s a hateful POS.

But the funny thing is, when he had a wife with a healthy libido, he didn’t do much with that desire. I assessed at the 15 year mark that I’d had more sex with my college boyfriend of a year and a half than I’d had with my husband of a decade and a half. It was a sad calculus. I think it’s entirely possible that I’m still the only person he’s had sex with at all, though I do wonder if there was a failed or deeply unsatisfactory attempt or two since we’ve separated. A woman wiser and older than I was would walk away after attempting sexual congress with him, it was bad.

I think there’s a general consensus here that these guys don’t really want sex with a loving partner. My ex – an incel manqué – didn’t know what to do with me when he had me. He chose to chase hate. I’m so glad I’m out of it. I’m so glad I’ve had a second chance and a relationship with someone who chooses to embrace my passion and return it.

Kevin
Kevin
3 years ago

@ Bluecat
Sympathy over the Parkinson’s, it’s a right embuggerance.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
3 years ago

… the difference between “ignorance” and “willful Ignorance”…

https://slate.com/human-interest/2018/05/against-resistancegenealogy-digging-up-information-about-the-immigrant-ancestors-of-trumpsters-is-doing-more-harm-than-good.html

One mistake that the left tends to make in engaging in historical fights is to believe the right is simply ignorant and that exposure to more history will change their minds.

ashent
ashent
3 years ago

“Also your weird fixation with bashing Hinduism gave me the impression you were not African American, since I assumed that African Americans generally have limited interaction with Hinduism as a faith.”

Huh? How is this not a mildly racist statement? African Americans don’t have the gene for being curious/having informed opinions about world religions? #ThingsthatbringouttheSJWinme

Katamount
Katamount
3 years ago

There’s actually a point that dovetails nicely with something both @WWTH and the paragraph that @Weird_Eddie quoted:

Isn’t it amazing how the people who belong to the political ideology that preaches personal responsibility never, ever, ever take any responsibility for themselves?

One mistake that the left tends to make in engaging in historical fights is to believe the right is simply ignorant and that exposure to more history will change their minds.

As I mentioned on the previous page, our collective superpower here is our memories. But memory means little if the lies are halfway around the world while the truth we remember is getting its shoes on. That saying gets a lot of traffic, but it actually has a couple implications:

1. Lies from the mouths of media-trained talking heads are going to be pre-packaged in convenient sound-byte form while the truth often requires explanation. And if you’re explaining, you’re losing.

2. There’s an unstated implication that there are are no referees to call out lies. And that’s absolutely correct: as much as it sucks to admit it, the mainstream media, TV media in particular, have entirely ceded their responsibility to their viewers to call out bullshit when its spewed in their faces. It’s only in the absence of these referees that lies are allowed to thrive.

There’s a reason Jordan Peterson plays these rhetorical games in interviews: if he can flabbergast and flummox the host who hadn’t done the necessary research to find out this guy’s game, then he gets to walk away saying “Look at me, I pwned that dumb journalist! Worship me, royal smart man! Money please!” This is exactly why the pwnage culture of YouTube is so insidious and why it’s caught on: no refs to tell a sophist like Ben Shapiro “Okay, there’s more to it than that and you’re just lying by omission.” He’s just permitted to go in front of a camera and motormouth lies into the brains of an audience completely unchallenged, or when he is, just Gish gallop across a moderator and accuse them of bias.

In light of this, it’s incumbent upon us to rise to the occasion and not only tell the truth, but tell it in a way that sticks in people’s memory. It’s not easy and it might mean wandering into enemy territory, but there’s a reason that for all the echo-chambering these noxious buttwhistlers accuse us of being, they don’t invite a Sam Seder or a Dick Coughlin or a Contrapoints on their shows: all of them understand the game and have a way of dismantling bullshit arguments with memorable flair. It’s not a coincidence that two of the three people I cited are comedians and as much as I don’t like relying on comedians to get our points across, they’re the ones that make things stick in the mind like no other. They grasp the performance aspect better than anyone.

To sum up, it takes more than just pointing out historical ignorance or wrongdoing. They’ve gotta be hammered into the ground and then the ground has to be salted. These people have to be reduced to gibbering, stuttering, humiliated weaklings in front of their audience if historical fact and truth are ever going to win out. They’re going to blame everyone else and take no responsibility for their actions because nobody’s held them to account for the past 20 years.

Catalpa
Catalpa
3 years ago

@Ashent

Yeah, I phrased that poorly, my bad. I meant that Americans who are not culturally adjacent to Hinduism (i.e. Their family doesn’t originate from the Indian subcontinent or that general area), are generally not going to encounter Hinduism as much as they encounter other religions, since Hinduism is a relatively uncommon religion in North America. Not just black Americans, but also white Americans, latinx Americans, etc. (I was also under the impression that idli didn’t belong to those demographics.)

But, yeah, regardless, my attempts at divining people’s race over the internet were in poor taste and I’m gonna stop doing that. Sorry.

Fishy Goat
Fishy Goat
3 years ago