The Spring 2018 WHTM pledge drive is on! Go YOUR own way by donating generously! Thanks!
By David Futrelle
Do MGTOWs hate women? It’s not a difficult question for most of those who’ve ever encountered the MGTOWs to answer. (The answer, by the way, is “yes.”)
But MGTOWs themselves have some trouble with the question. On the one hand, they would like the world to believe that they don’t hate women. On the other, they really really really fucking hate women.
We can see this, er, tension play out in the following two comments from the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit. Call it a Tale of Two MGTOWNs.
MGTOW is peace
In a recent thread devoted to the (more apparent than real) differences between so-called MGTOWs and so-called Incels (“involuntary celibates”), a fellow called Ed_Moy insisted:
MGTOW is a peaceful walking away from co-habitation, dating and relationships with women. We realize the game is rigged to our disadvantage, so we choose not to play anymore and focus on making ourselves better versions of what we currently are. There is more to life than just fucking and marriage and kids and the “white picket fence” life.
INCEL’s are bitter and furious that the game is rigged and have stormed off, preferring that the game change so they can enter it again with an advantage in the dating and relationship realm. They want to fuck and are mad they can’t or it’s so much harder to do so in today’s climate.
HUGE DIFFETENCE between the two.
MGTOW is peace, we don’t hate women. We feel sad that both genders have been sold a bad bill of goods on how life works in 1st world cultures, and are walking away from it all to find a better path in life.
This comment got a positive response from the r/MGTOW regulars, earning 22 upvotes.
“Learning to hate women is the best thing to happen to me”
Some months earlier, a MGTOW calling himself ancap-biochemist had a rather different story.
Ever since embracing misogyny my life has become something I can be proud of. My career has taken off, I’m in great shape, my finances are solid, I’m more well rested, better fed, my sexual gratification became better*, I’m more focused, happier, and more philosophically grounded in reality.
. * When I was still sleeping with women (which I’ve made a conscious choice to never do again earlier this month, after a risky ONS) – there was a marginal increase in my enjoyment of sex. When I used to masturbate (I’m also trying the no-fap thing in addition to celibacy, since early this month) it was also more enjoyable with more misogyny.
Mr. ancap-biochemist then took what he called “a quick digression into celibacy/no-fap” that involved discussion of the “sperm retention thing” that I think we can safely skip because ew.
Returning to the topic of hating women – it is the best thing to have happened to me because, I think, that women are a disappointment regarding virtues. They’ve been sold as a panacea for all of men’s ills (she will civilize you, make you food, clean your house, give you a moral foundation, massage your sore muscles, listen to your problems, blah, blah, blah). The Woman TM wonder-drug is like heroine [sic] … pretty soon you’re spending all your time and money supporting a drug habit.
And, make no mistake, love is a drug. Love will blind and stupefy a man into taking a bad deal.
Think about the following; nature endowed men with a survival advantage for using their wits in a hunter-kind-of-way. …
The love-drug lowers a man’s IQ to that of the woman (or lower). All that beautiful women see are idiot men. When the men leave the women they become expert hunters and survivors who have brought nature herself into submission, and cracked the very atoms which constitute the [or “a”] fabric of our material existence. Men are smart, but not around women.
Hating women has reversed that weakness which was required to continue the species.
Hating women has made me a stronger person… because, let’s face it – there’s a lot to hate, and women make you weak. …
Women love powerful men, and fuck them readily… and if a man (unburdened by women) is free to excel due to his natural advantages and without his natural inhibitions … then he becomes the “alpha” male – women reactively lubricate their vaginas and accelerate ovulation toward the man who has become strong thereby, and their husbands become jealous. …
The freedom and strength is too great of a reward not to raise a middle finger toward those cucks and tell their whores to fuck off.
My life is too great to give up. And hate (toward such an ugly thing as woman/white-knights) can be the most healthy response a man can have.
This post also got a positive response from the r/MGTOW regulars, earning 94 upvotes.
In other words, MGTOWs seem to agree that they both don’t hate and do hate women.
Let’s just split the difference and say that they really fucking do hate women.
The more I think about it, the more it seems that the connections between the religious right, MRAs, neo-Nazism and all of the other unsavoury “-isms” are tight and have been working together for a very long time.
Perhaps the “election” of the Ochre Ogre is nothing more or less than the whole, ugly, brutal and hateful connection finally, after decades of chipping away at the things most of us hold dear and supporting and urging the worst in us, shedding the lamb skin and revealing itself as the monster it is. Maybe, by using us all…preying on the fears we all have…and encouraging us to see the solutions to our problems in hate, violence and naming what we do not understand in ourselves and in everyone not “us” as irrevocably “OTHER,” they have actually played their hands.
The more deeply I look and listen, the less fear I am actually feeling, and the more free I think I am becoming. If having the monsters out in the open makes it more likely that I and We can look honestly at the monsters within, it could be a good thing.
Hate women? Yeah, that’s there, but I think that the bigger thing driving these guys is terror…something they don’t want to face. And they most assuredly do NOT want the “mommies” reminding them of it.
“When the men leave the women they become expert hunters and survivors who have brought nature herself into submission.”
I guess that explains the MGTOW predisposition for hunting seagulls.
“women reactively lubricate their vaginas and accelerate ovulation”
Well, I don’t ovulate anymore, but I’m experiencing endometrial hyperplasia. Could that be because of riding the cock carousel too often with all those Chads?
@Rabid Rabbit
His shoulders are grotesquely huge. That, and obviously he’s been skipping leg day.
And that cringey teen dialogue…”Get out of my life and stay out!”
(But first, will you drive me and Cheryl to the mall?)
See, this is not necessarily an unalloyed good. This “dominate rather than coexist” attitude towards nature is what brought us Hiroshima, Chernobyl, Fukushima, the Pacific garbage patch, deforestation, soil depletion, water contamination, species extinction, climate change, and a whole host of other consequences whose impact is yet to be fully felt.
And who’s to say what women wouldn’t have accomplished historically if they weren’t exclusively tasked with cooking, cleaning, and raising kids? It’s a little hard to make Noble Scientific Discoveries™ when you’re denied an education and running around 24/7 doing for others.
Conversely, it’s easier to make those discoveries when you’ve got a support team keeping you fed, supplying clean socks, and doing the drudge work. Very few scientific advances are the result of a lone wolf having ideas in a cabin in the woods somewhere, totally free of the pernicious influence of wimmenz.
But not always wise. Checks and balances, dude.
This!
Despite all the talk of “white genocide” and of “the end of ‘men’ “, the simple fact is, the only thing white men have lost (and only to some extent) is the social acceptability to publicly abuse people who aren’t like them.
and with the advent of trumpery, I’m wondering how much longer even THAT will be denied them
Yeah, saw that one… man, it was (and I don’t say these dumb millennial shibboleths lightly) cringe. Pure effin’ cringe. But that’s Bari Effin’ Weiss for you; “Cringe” is her other middle name. Paul Krugman was having none of it on Twitter; I just hope he was having none of it the NYT editorial board.
But then again, they still employ Douthat and Brooks, so if he is complaining to the higher-ups, they ain’t listening.
Oh yeah, and one of my local sportsballers, Jays closer Roberto Osuna was arrested for assault, likely domestic assault based on the MLB policy being implemented.
What is it with the Jays attracting players who turn out to be total dillholes? First Yunel Escobar and his dumb eyeblack stunt, then Jose Reyes, now Osuna. I’m still giving Robbie Alomar the side eye on that bizarre HIV settlement back in ’09.
Welp, into the dillhole bin with Osuna… he can sit next to Bubbles on the “DISAPPOINTED!” couch.
@rugbyyogi
Thanks. The BA website says so as well so I have company policy on my side at least. 🙂
h/t Ghazi on Nathan J. Robinson taking apart Bari Weiss’s bullshit fluff piece on the Freeze Peach Martyr brigade.
I caught “Based Mom” herself trying to save face on Krugman’s response to Weiss’s piece and she was pulling the “Oh, I’m just a moderate, rational, reasonable centrist (TM) feminist who has been cast out by the radical Feminazis in control! I welcome all debate!”
I had to remind her that she works for AEI, so she’s not fooling anybody on the “moderate” angle, but also that she’s perfectly within her rights to submit papers to academic journals for peer review if she thinks her ideas are so great.
That’s something that I really think needs to hammered into people: this whole YouTube PWNage thing… that’s spectacle, not substance. When it comes to anything that might actually influence policy decisions or my own worldview, it’s not going to be some smarmy talking head that actually does that, not even ones I’m actually fond of. It’s going to be an agglomeration of written content from sources that I know are answerable to those interested in fact. There’s a reason the peer review process is in place. There’s a reason editors exist at major newspapers. And I can read multiple sources, weigh their biases appropriately, then come to my own conclusion through my own personal humanist lens.
The problem is that takes some work… and if somebody can spoon-feed you an opinion, the lazy are just going to swallow whatever fits their preconceptions. I also realize some are pressed for time and I can appreciate that; the first source should still be a reputable news source and not RantyKing6969xXx on YouTube, no matter how entertaining his antics may be.
But this whole bullshit free speech martyr nonsense is just another testament to cultural and intellectual laziness (along with short memory spans). There’s a reason Charles Murray published The Bell Curve as a book; he knew peer review would have shredded it had he submitted it there first, and they certainly did shred it after the fact. Same reason all these chuckleheads belch out books and webinars; they control their own message and are answerable to nobody. Yet Sam Harris had no problem adopting Murray as some kind of free speech martyr, and Harris’ audience adopting him as some kind of expert on Islam.
Same thing with Jordan Peterson’s moronic anti-trans crap: he’s wrong on the history, wrong on Canadian law, he’s wrong on the science of gender and he’s wrong on basic human decency, so no wonder he sticks to webinars and milquetoast interviews where he knows he can bamboozle the interviewer. Get somebody who knows his schtick and he’d be flattened within minutes.
Print media and academic journals ain’t flashy. They can even be tough to wrap your head around. They may even get things wrong. But they’re what you should be taking your cues from, kids, not PewDiePie or Philip DeFranco.
On that Bari Weiss piece: did you see Gad Saad blathering pompously about not being included? What a fragile snowflake!
@Moggie
Oh that’s… that’s just precious. He really is one of those day-late, dollar-short hangers on to the coattails of Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson. Watching him sulk is beauty itself.
I guess he didn’t pull himself up by his bootstraps hard enough to get in on his own merit.
@Cheerful Warthog Gee, thanks for the RM earworm. LOL!
*can’t shake free/love is the drug/got a hook in me*
Cernovich is also quite butthurt that he wasn’t featured in the Weiss piece.
It’s adorable that Juicebro thinks he’s an intellectual.
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee:
Ding!
Moggie:
Ding!
I think some things just came together for me.
I saw someone on the Jordan Peterson subReddit explain that he never learned to clean his room as a teenager, because his father never told him to. Just his mother, who he routinely ignored.
I’m not entirely sure that either parent was at fault in that scenario. If you’re old enough to be in college and your epiphany that cleaning your room and telling the truth are important comes about because Jordan Peterson said so, it’s not because of cultural Marxism.
…just zero self-awareness with these people.
Strength is how hard you can throw a tomato.
Constitution is how well you can stomach a rotten tomato.
Dexterity is how well you can dodge a thrown tomato.
Intelligence is knowing that tomatoes are fruit.
Wisdom is knowing not to put a tomato in a fruit salad.
Charisma is how well you can sell tomato-based fruit salads.
sunnysombrera – I haven’t been on a plane since 1999, but I sure can make any car trip over 40 minutes (where I have to drive myself) into a full-blown crisis in my head! 9_9
MGTOWs: We don’t hate women, we just gain strength from being away from them and wish to have nothing to do with them.
Also MGTOWs: We hate women, and that gives us strength to eventually make us alpha males and attract women!
Philosophy is wondering if ketchup is technically a smoothie.
re: freezing peaches and the silencing of the right…
The right-wing pundits’ fear isn’t that they’re being silenced, it’s that other voices are being heard.
Their audience has always been white men, and it still is. Their angst comes from the fact that, largely through the actions of “Social Justice Warriors”, white men are no longer the only audience, and, as evidenced by the election of a non-white-man to the highest office in the U.S., white men may not even be the most important audience.
It’s not being silenced that threatens the right-wing pundits — it’s the ever-growing fear that the important groups aren’t listening to them, and that the groups who are listening to them are becoming less important!
@ Samantha Kaswell,
“The more I think about it, the more it seems that the connections between the religious right, MRAs, neo-Nazism and all of the other unsavoury “-isms” are tight and have been working together for a very long time.”
Agreed. I picked up on this a long time ago too. Some Marxist writers have clear explanations as well, it’s been a while since I was in school, maybe someone else has some reading suggestions.
I am remembering one book, “The origin of the family”? (Author) Engels?
@Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Yes, but there are only so many hours in a day, and if some of those hours are being taken up by other voices, technically the white men are being silenced for those hours, because they could be speaking then instead! Not Fair!
/s, in case it wasn’t clear.
@ Cheerful Warthog,
“Because I am a man, naturally I am very, very good at maths, as all men are. (I am terrible at maths. There are a few STEM subjects I can get through, but mostly I’m a humanities boy from day 1.)
I do, however, know that 94 is more than four times 22. “
I are female, can do math 🙂 Maybe my female brain are not braining right?
94,
4X 22,
I think these are divergent equations, so now you understand integral calculus! 🙂
I are STEM (would be mech. eng.), and so are my usual hangout pals here. Math what now? It’s more like – just jam it in there and see if it works. No wait, – do you have a fire extinguisher?
This applies to the small scale to the large. The sloppiness is convergent.