By David Futrelle
We may have all overdosed on the hideously depressing incel coverage over the last week, so I thought today we could take a break and drop in on an ever-so-slightly less toxic misogynistic subculture, namely our old friends the MGTOWs, or Men Going Their Own Way So Completely That All They Do Is Bitch About Women.
Let’s just pop in on a discussion I found — don’t ask me how, I don’t even remember — over on MGTOW.com. The subject: “Does feminism promote bestiality?”
Take it away, young MGTOW:
I’m rather young, so i can’t really say if it’s been increasing or not, but i suspect so.
When i was 17, i was hugely obsessed with statistics, and i one day ran into a survey done asking female dog owners if they had ever had sexual intercourse with their dog. 1 in 10 stated that they had.
I haven’t been able to find it back as since then google’s search algorithms have been completely feminized so i can no longer find dick all on the net
Ah, yes, it couldn’t be that you misremembered the study, must have been a “feminized” search engine.
Anyway, after an admittedly halfassed attempt at Googling I couldn’t find it either and the most recent widely cited study I did find (from way back in 1974) suggested that a) the percentage of women who had sex with animals was less than two percent (1.9%) and that b) the percentage of men who’d done the same was more than twice that (4.9%). So I’m guessing the study our young MGTOW “remembers” is either imaginary or completely unscientific bullshit.
Also, ewwww.
So anywho, that got me thinking, about why so many girls had dogs as pets and not the cute fluffy cats
To protect them from creepy weirdos like you?
Why they would always have a male dog, and never a female dog – wouldn’t you expect them to get a female dog?
[citation needed]
I came to the conclusion that women were just extremely f~~~ed up and disgusting when it came to their sexual desires.
Of course you did.
NOW! 5 years later!
I was on a movie set a few days ago, doing some gay ass artsy film lol… and the assistant director had a male dog… which she slept with.
This dog whined when ever he was away from her for more than 5 seconds!!!
So, it got me thinking, i mean, she sleeps with the dog every night, how on earth is she not f~~~ing it?
Um, WHAT
WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU ASSUME THAT
Sometimes my cats sleep on my bed. I DON’T HAVE SEX WITH THEM.
I mean, who sleeps with their dog!
She actually literally cuddled with the dog… probably giving it more affection than any man she’s ever known… lol.
Just got me thinking, pretty entertaining thing to think of.
Since i was 17, i have noticed both a serious increase in feminism and female relations \w dogs… but i can’t really say if the two are linked or even if the latter has been increasing of if its just my increased awareness.
So… Thoughts?
Have you ever caught any women doing weird stuff with their dogs? LOL.
Fun topic eh?
Naturally, a number of other MGTOWs had their own equally thoughtful opinions on the subject:
Gross. You want to know what’s really sick is when I see male and female dog owners. When a male dog owner sees his dog humping something, he gets stern and p~~~ed off and yanks him away. When a female sees it, she’s all “omg lol so cute”. They think it’s adorable but if you walk up to her and just say something she thinks it’s rape. There was a study about women getting aroused by seeing bonobo monkeys f~~~ing. It was all over the place. Girls gone wild for monkeys.
Well that was an interesting exercise in free association.
One MGTOW had some thoughts about “old ladies.”
why do you think those old ladies and women over 40 own a small dog?
they pour that freaking peanut butter all over their
Ok, I’m just going to stop him right there because I think we all know where that’s going.
Some of the commenters aren’t quite as bothered by the whole sex-with-dogs thing as Mr. OP. As one puts it:
I don’t frankly give a f~~~. As long as the dog wasn’t forced to [CENSORED BY DF BECAUSE IT’S DOG SEX], then I’m fine with it. There was an incident wherein a dog tried to hump me. I was a kid, and it never occurred to me that I was raping him. Listen, if the woman bends over and the dog starts humping her then I consider that to be conscentual. She offered, and he took her up on the that. Let them f~~~ dogs. If anything I find it amusing, but in all sincerity I have no moral qualms with what you call “beastiality”. I wouldn’t do it with a dog, or goat, or horse, but if the animal is willing, and you’re into that, then be my guest. I hear it’s illegal though, so you might want to keep it to yourself.
Well, that’s enough MGTOWs for one day I think.
To be a bit flippant, if the peanut butter trick actually worked to a satisfactory result, wouldn’t women use it with men too? No need to communicate with words, let alone educate him.
@Buttercup:
Sounds about right. And then, the shit icing on top of the moldy cake is that they’ll whine something like “Why aren’t they doing that with ME? I’m a Nice Guy™!”
Migtoes are incels who don’t realize it, while incels are migtoes who really do need to GTOW. Preferably to a desert island. (Honestly, I’m having trouble telling the two apart, beyond what their forums are called.)
What do they care what sex a companion animal is?
As long as I’m not the one scheduling the spay/neuter procedure with the vet I don’t care!
And their leap from living being sharing bed to sex is simply astounding.
My parents practised co-sleeping with me, as all of us got more sleep that way, especially since I categorically refused any food aside breast milk from my mum’s breasts until I was one year old.
Plenty of parents do that!
I’ve also shared beds with class mates and cousins of various genders on school trips and the like.
Worst by far was the night time train trip to Venice. The destination coach was not a sleeper coach. But you could push the benches together and create a 2×2.5 m flatish surface to sleep on. It’s six to such a compartment. I was lucky. I spent the night wedged between classmate Stefan and the outside wall, beneath the window…
Seriously.
Even people in relationships spend way more time sharing the bed sleeping than fucking.
Good grief. What is wrong with those people?!
I came here for a read because my colleague is talking loudly on the phone and I can’t concentrate on the contract I’m supposed to be drafting.
Huge mistake. Now I need brain bleach, and I barely skimmed this shit. My subconscious has started a mutiny and keeps on screaming “why would you assume that? Why???” in high pitch tones and I can’t make it quiet down.
Seriously, what the actual fuck is wrong with these people?
(Aside: This comment was posted, then vanished. Gonna try reposting.)
*sigh* Welp, now we know which of these creepazoids is the audience for Dog Fucker.
OT, but it’s been on my mind: The Star’s running profiles on the Toronto Van Attack victims and… I dunno, something bothers me about ’em. I get that these are statements from loved ones at funerals and only good memories will be shared, and yet… I suppose I’m a little cynical of the same words being used to describe the victims of untimely death: “bubbly,” “kind,” “cheerful,” “loving” and probably the one that bothers me the most “lived life to the fullest.”
Can’t help but notice that these are always applied to female victims, particularly when they aren’t married or have kids. Because if they were, that’s always the lens that they get focused through. “Loving parent of 3 children and beloved wife of Joe Schmo.”
Having been only 24 hours removed from that exact spot, it gets me wondering what people would say about me if Minassian was able to get his van a day earlier and I was one of the victims. “Had dull cubicle job, drew naked animal people, occasionally photographed old buildings. Thrived on routine.” I’m sure my family would be more eloquent than that and describe me as quiet yet eager for knowledge of local history, yet there’s always that intimation that if you’re not doing all those things that the dead person did, you’re not living life to the fullest. Unless you’re climbing mountains in your off time or building houses for orphans, yer just not doin’ life right like this dead person did!
Sorry, some of us have had an energy-sapping liver ailment since childhood and can barely make it through the day. Some of us are uncomfortable around crowds. Some of us find the world around us more interesting than themselves and thus abhor selfies and avoid the camera eye.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s great that Anne Marie D’Amico volunteered overseas and was the life of the party or whatever, but come on, are the same handful of pithy, cliched platitudes all we have to describe each other? Are we that pedestrian, that predictable and boring? Man, if that’s the case, I might actually request full blow-up colour prints of my naked animal people be displayed next to my coffin. That’d actually be memorable.
Cuz we’re not all bubbly, kind, neighbourly people that play sportsball or go to church picnics or whatever. Some of us live online more than we do outside. More and more of us do. And plenty of us have unusual aspects about ourselves, and apparently none of us meet with any kind of misfortune because I’ve never seen a profile of a murder or accident victim relate their avid cosplaying hobby or fascination with old street signs or life as a professional dominatrix or LARPer or anything like that.
Those are the things that tend to be our not-so-hidden passions, the real legacies of who we are. Those are the things that I’m interested in, not their freakin’ fitness routines!
Sorry, rant over. Guess I’m still feeling a little of that “there but by the grace of God go I” stuff about the events of 4/23. Nothing existential, just disappointed in how shallow we get in tragedy’s shadow. There’s more to all of us and we should remember that.
@Bina Honestly, I think incels are worse. They’re MGTOWs with an extra heaping helping of entitlement and “Woe is me, everyone else’s struggles pale in comparison to mine”. MGTOWs mostly bitch and complain, but incels actively advocate for harming women.
Instead of redistributing sex, maybe the world should focus on redistributing empathy and basic human interaction skills.
@katamount
Eulogies are like funerals. They’re for the benefit of the living, not the dead.
“Lived life to the fullest” is just another denial that a life was cut short too soon by the people most affected by the loss.
Z&T said
I want a hippopotamus for Christmas! There’s lots of room for him in our two-car garage
I’d feed him there and wash him there and give him his massage!
(This is a song, for those who don’t know. Don’t google it; it’s also an earworm. You have been warned.)
@Shadowplay
I can see friends and family in need of comfort finding the platitude thing reassuring. But then, do I really need to read about it in my morning newspaper? And I think that’s where my hangup is: the interaction between private funeral reminiscence that should be consoling to those grieving and mass media trying to grab attention. I see the same thing on that Forensic Files show I watch and it gets irksome having to hear every female murder victim under 30 described as “bubbly.” Who wants to be remembered as “bubbly?” I wouldn’t.
After the London tube bombings, my mum’s main concern was that I get an up to date “nice” photo in case I was ever blown up and she needed something for the newspapers.
@Katamount
Sure, it can be irritating (especially the bubbly bit – I too detest that word applied to people).
It’s the converse of what a couple of us were talking about on another thread – personalising the victims to people who otherwise have their own problems to worry on. Don’t think it does the dead many favors, to be honest. Better to remember all of them – not just the highlights.
@Alan
Ha! My mom keeps the bits of shrapnel they dig out of me from time to time. She’s a strange one at times.
Off topic.
Omg. Omg.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/feds-tapped-trump-lawyer-michael-cohen-s-phones-n871011
I guess my family would be technically accurate to say that I “lived my life to the fullest”, even though I only do it occasionally, try to avoid non-consenting viewers and never tell anyone.
@Shadowplay
Agreed. That said… sometimes certain skeletons should remain unremarked upon in funerals. I’m thinking of my stepfather’s mother, who he described in private as a woefully neglectful parent who carried on several affairs with other married churchgoers (she belonged to a fundamentalist congregation) and cared about them more than her own children. Probably not the best eulogy material.
Hambeast: Too late. Just the mere mention did it! Beware the wrath of the earworm haters!
Alan Robertshaw. Also, make sure you have nice underwear!
@katamount
Well said, it’s as if the people who write these things explicitly praise extroverts for doing what extroverts do. Personally I find capitalism to be the problem: not only can you afford to do these things if you have the resources to do it (both time and money), which most of us don’t; but also, there’s this subtle marketing BS of building this highly idealized version of what a “complete human being is”, which at the same time de-humanizes those that do not adhere to these arbitrary standards.
Our current society does not value nor cater to people who do not fit these molds, which incidentally are the ones who maximize production (whether as workers or as consumers).
Humanity has become instrumental to a system which was supposedly adopted to better the human condition.
Tangentially related, I hate how extroverted personality types are what gets called “relateable.” Yes. Relateable to fellow extroverts, but not to introverts. This came up on America’s Next Top Model a lot. The quirky, weird, shy, awkward and reserved models would get criticized for not being someone girls and women would relate to and I’m always like, “wait a second, I can relate to them.” Why wouldn’t people with all those traits want celebrities they can identify with too? Why do only friendly and outgoing people deserve that? There’s clearly an appetite for it. Daria, Darlene Conner, Enid from Ghost World, Wednesday Adams, Emily the Strange, Lizbeth Salander and more I’m forgetting are all very popular with young women for a reason. Because they relate to them.
@Katamount
Part of the problem, I think, is that these deaths were recent and unexpected, and so the people writing the profiles are having to run to family and friends who are still in shock and want to say the nicest things they can. And so they’re using all the cliches – just like how in obituaries, everyone always fought against cancer, and never against any other disease. (When I’m Emperor of the World, I will be banning all variations on that phrasing forever.)
It’s a difference you notice between the obituaries of “ordinary” people and those of people who were in the news once. The press has files on the latter, had time to do the research, prepare them well in advance of the deaths, and so on, which is why Sandra Martin’s “Working the Dead Beat” is such a fun read. (For those who don’t know, it’s a collection of about 50 obituaries of notable Canadians.) The “ordinary” obituaries are prepared by the family, and that’s essentially what those profiles in the Star are.
And seconding @Diego Duarte about the fact that praise is extrovert-centered in these things.
ETA: @WWTH, definitely agree. Extroverts make me seize up before scuttling back behind the ficus like a cat with claws out and fur bristling. Pretty sure that doesn’t count as relating to them.
Of course it was Nobel’s premature obituary (which slated him as a death dealer) that prompted him to set up the Nobel Prizes.
@Katamount:
Dorothy L. Sayers, via characters in the mystery novel Murder Must Advertise, commented on how the newspapers always describe murder victims as “well-dressed and popular” if men, “bright and home-loving” if women.
I used to have a cat who would spoon me. I did not have sex with him. He, despite being neutered, did his best to have sex with teddy bears. This was not arousing to onlookers; mainly it led to a firm resolve to make sure the kids’ soft toys were not left alone with him.
I am currently sharing my bed with approximately thirty books, which I am also not having sex with.
I work at a vet clinic. Most of my coworkers are female. Our usual response to humping behavior is not “How cute!” but “We have an opening next Monday for his neuter”.
Prabhupada was definitely a bigoted jerk of the first water. I’m not sure why Hinduism, or that variant of it, should get any more slack than a fundamentalist Christian expressing similar opinions would get.
I see the conversation has moved on from the topic in the OP, but I just wanted to mention my initial reaction on seeing the headline and picture: my mind went an article I read shared on Facebook of a couple in Colorado where the husband forced his wife to have sex with their male Husky. There was also other accounts of domestic violence, and she had called the police about it before, but unfortunately nothing was done. Now both people in the couple are facing charges of bestiality. I also read comments that the dog would likely be put down since the abuse it suffered would severely affect how it would interact with other humans. (Which made me think of the mghow above who mentioned a coworker with a dog she sleeps with is not having sex with her because it would act way more differently.)
I also wonder if these mgtows are actually ignorant or just being obtuse on how feminists stand on bestiality. I thought feminists were known for consent and that children and animals are not able to give consent. Knowing that, bestiality goes against known feminist thought.
On the current topic of people being relatable or noteworthy if they’re extroverts: I feel like teachers are expected to be extroverted. I’m reserved, especially when I first get to know people. So it’s hard to be the super warm and enthusiastic teacher people envision when they think of good teachers. I’ve also had to explain to people why I don’t impose myself onto children and instead leave myself open for them to aproach me, such as how different people have different boundaries and it takes time to learn what’s comfortable for each individual.
I feel like the reason extroverts are held as an ideal is that they are often the ones speaking up more or just making themselves more visible (but also the capitalistic factors mentioned above).
OT to this thread, but the local paper is reporting that an online-famous Nazi dude (Zeiger, a writer for The Daily Stormer) was traced to Montreal: link to story. Ugh. And he lives in Rosemont-La Petite-Patrie, a place that has (and/or is near to) large immigrant and Jewish communities.
He also hosted neo-Nazi groups; the paper notes: “Only men were allowed to attend their official meetings, but they opened up some events to women and “normies” — a term they use to describe people outside the movement.”
“Normies” is what the incels say too, isn’t it? Ugh and ugh again.
And, suddenly, the entire manosphere involuntarily shuddered, but didn’t know why.