By David Futrelle
In the wake of the Toronto van attacks, the mods on Incels.me have apparently decided to hide some of the more incriminating discussions on the site. Like this little thread, which they deleted — but not before the Internet Archive’s Wayback Machine grabbed a copy of it.
I guess this thread was just a little bit too enthusiastically pro-mass-murder for its own good. 
You may notice that some of the commenters accuse the OP of being a troll from the anti-incel IncelTears subreddit. But if you go to the archived thread (this isn’t visible in the screenshot) you’ll see that several of those agreeing most enthusiastically with the OP are prolific Incels.me posters with many thousands of comments between them. Because of course.
@Shadowplay
Ew, that picture made me vomit in my mouth a little.
@Scildfreja
So would I, I’ve totally sold myself on it. I want to write it now.
Although I’ve realised I need to work on my cultural references if I’m going to set it in America. Betty is unlikely to be randomly serving tea at all hours. That’s Britain.
Oh, maybe she’s a Brit, why not. I’m a Brit. They’ll all just have to learn to like tea, it’s my sitcom.
Douthat weighs in with this:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/02/opinion/incels-sex-robots-redistribution.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region
I just can’t even. He is normalizing the incels with this, although that is presumably not his intention.
@Susan
Fuck sake
Still not addressing my question
Does “redistribution of sex” mean taking away some people’s right to consent?
I mean, I’d consider a sex robot to be just an advanced sex toy, I have no problems with that, but if we are talking about real live people then they need to have the right to be able to turn down any client they feel like turning down. So stop with the “redistribution” thing, because sex is not an inanimate object which can be shared out “fairly”. It does not work like that because both parties need to fully consent to sexual activity, whether sex workers or not.
Susan,
I admit to not reading the article yet, but I’m guessing normalizing this was exactly his attention. More traditional right wing men may pretend to oppose violence against women (only if it’s against nice white Christian ladies though) but I think they would be delighted if incels succeeded in scaring women away from feminism and got us to agree to be en masse to being June Cleaver clones.
I think this will backfire though. Just look at the backlash Trump is already inspiring in women. It’s kind of hard to argue that women don’t need feminism anymore because its goals were already achieved when we have a confessed sexual assaulter in the White House and yet the political press is pearl clutching over the meanness of a female comedian at the WHCD. Or when we’ve had at least mass murders in four years because some guy is angry women aren’t throwing themselves at him and there are yet more guys online cheering them on.
@Susan
Why would one presume that’s not his intention?
Scildfreja:
I think generally a major risk with kink porn and kink fantasies and practical kink discussion is reinforcing harmful societal ideas. Obviously, the risk depends a lot on what exactly your kink is, and much of the same issues apply to mainstream or “vanilla” porn and common cultural sex tropes.
It seems likely that many people’s kinks are heavily inspired by harmful cultural sex tropes. This doesn’t make those kinks inherently bad when they’re excersized in fantasies or consensual roleplay. However, portraying or discussing those kinks in public can be easily harmful without careful framing of them as fantasy/roleplay. Not to mention the risk of triggering viewers.
Sexual consent and sexual fantasy/reality distinction are apparently two issues that are often poorly understood in general population, and not always respected in kink culture. We should all strive to get better on these, but people discussing certain kinks need to be extra responsible, both for their own understanding of the kink in question, and for others’ understanding.
For example rape fantasies shouldn’t
In my previous comment, I considered discussing rape fantasy as an example of problematic kink that isn’t necessarily wrong, but can easily normalize rapey talk, which again covers and normalizes rape. I don’t want to go into lengthy discussion, though.
Which is funny because I thought kink was supposed to be when someone’s sexual activity/fantasy/preference was outside the mainstream.
Like that picture we’ve been discussing. Both the sexy bimbo and the conventionally beautiful nerd girl are extremely mainstream. As are depictions of makeovers that turn one into the other. Like House Bunny or Mean Girls.
Sometimes it seems like any turn on gets labelled a kink and it leaves me confused as to what the word “kink” is even supposed to mean.
The article Susan posted mentions this piece: https://slate.com/business/2018/04/economist-robin-hanson-might-be-americas-creepiest-professor.html The piece is good but Robin Hanson – ugh, ugh and a million times ugh.
I guess kink means basically “anything that’s somehow outside narrow normative core, including but not limited to overdoing mainstream tropes or putting much personal importance on some very specific mainstream trope or…”
Douthat doesn’t as much “weigh in” as he “vomits quasi-Catholic gobbledygook all over the New York Times editorial section.”
That drawing seems to imply that reading induces the same physical changes in a woman as sex.
The Thousand Book Stare. I’d know it anywhere.
Varalys introduced me to manga. Now I read everything right to left.
So I see that cartoon as a welcome reminder that, whilst studying is fine, it’s important to put the books aside and let your hair down every once in a while.
ETA: Now I’m thinking as to why that’s a synonym for having fun.
In case you’ve missed it – and fancy a bit of class to counteract these tossers – the two lads who were arrested at Starbucks for “standing while black” have reached a settlement with the city.
They’re impressive. And better people than I’ll ever be.
I guess when you read about incels, your hair tends to stand up.
I do kinda have that stare after completing a uni assignment. 4 weeks until I’m finished for the summer. 😀
That before and after sexual revolution chart really illustrates the idea of these incels, that women are a resource/commodity to be distributed.
@Alan
From an era when elaborately pinned hairstyles were standard for women of the classes that could afford servants. Letting it down was done in one’s chambers, in order to brush and clean it. Thus letting your hair down implies a (very) informal situation.
I definitely vote for Ian Cell, especially since I know a guy with a similar name who has major incel/MRA tendencies.
Wait, there’s a Katie now too? Missed that one, someone catch me up please.
All parodies aside, going forward we should probably refrain from using “incel” as well, since all people who are unable to attract sex partners are not domestic terrorists, or even jerks festering hatred. Some people are just unlucky in love. When TFL (precursor to incel) was a thing it was mostly sad, lonely, guys discussing their unluckiness, not spewing hate. I’d hate to think that all people who unlucky in love or sex get stereotyped as haters.
Going forward I might refer to incels as incels and the haters and domestic terrorists amongst them as incelhaters and inceldomters, respectfully, to differentiate them from peace loving people who are incel due to being unlucky in love.
Related, Chinese and Indian men complain of incelitis brought on by their cultures’ son preference.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/world/too-many-men/?tid=ss_fb&utm_term=.3f79428bf0c8
Sigh. ^
@idli
You seriously need to do some reading on what incel means. This blog has some great examples. You’re not using it correctly.
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/010/692/19789999.jpg
Are you fucking kidding me?
ETA: I seriously do not believe that Idli is here in good faith.
Jesalin, agreed. Idli’s post on the bestiality thread removed all doubt, after I read this one.