By David Futrelle
It’s not like any of you need any more reminders that incels are some of the worst people on planet earth, but here’s one anyway, in the form of a comment on Incels.me from a dude who thinks that following 14-year-olds down the street in order to freak them the hell out is kinda fun and every incel should try it.
Here’s the full text:
I once approached a teenage girl (around 14 years old) by asking her for directions at first. Then I proceeded to ask for her name. She became afraid and started walking away. I followed her, and then she went from walking briskly to running. Her gait was peculiar, because she ran like a newborn fawn, turning around every so often, trying to see if I am still following.
(Now, I want to make clear that I absolutely abhor rape and did not have any intention in that direction, not molestation not any of that.)
She had no reason to be frightened. I wasn’t gonna do anything.
But the feeling when you follow a girl and she notices you, and she tries to loose you or picks up the pace. That is kind of a good feeling. You become important to her. You are no longer some random insignificant face in the crowd.I know it is kind of low-level behaviour. But I do enjoy doing that. I go to another city, look for a girl that is walking by herself and start following her. After a while they notice you. After dark, after sunset it may suffice to just walk in the same general direction as a girl that is walking in front of you. They become paranoid.
I recommend you lonely incels try it some time. Just to make her afraid. If you know your limits and don’t actually harass -let alone rape- that girl, it should be harmless psychological fun.
Yes, that girl had no reason to be scared of the exceedingly creepy dude following her down the street because he wasn’t really planning to rape her though the thought had definitely occurred to him.
H/T — @iAmTheWarax
Also, I’ll bet £20 you’ve never seen a newborn fawn.
That’s just the kind of crap assholes like you say about women they are creeping on.
But that thought has led me to some fantastic brain bleach <3
I will just say that people like Classic_Jarvis are why I’m packing heat.
I can’t think of any obvious solutions to the threat incels pose. However I do think a first step is to publicly identify them. Having said that, I do though very much understand the universal distaste for “doxxing” amongst Mammotheers.
I’m not sure however that a blanket ‘ban’ is necessarily always a good idea. It’s one of those things that’s neutral, and any moral implications arise solely from the purpose you are identitying them, and the side you’re coming from.
It seems strange to me that, just by using a pseudonym, the vilest of persons can post what amounts to stochastic terrorism with impunity. That’s rather like catching a bank robber and saying “He’s wearing a mask, we must respect that and not enquire as to who he is.” (Which would also ruin Scooby Doo).
The post we’re referring to is from someone, who at the very least, is encouraging the terrorising of children. Should people not be alerted as to whom he is, if only so as to avoid him?
I’m not suggesting we necessarily get the torches and pitchforks out; just that people should at least face the consequences of their actions. Whether that’s by social condemnation, or practical measures such as reporting them to the relevant authorities.
That’s just my personal take of course, so I’d welcome any other views or comments.
And for any incel lurkers I should stress that this is just my view, it’s very contrary to the views of most, if not all, of the posters here, and I don’t identify as a feminist anyway; so this isn’t a ‘feminists want to dox us’ gotcha.
Man, that daily beast article. Ugh.
Pretty fucking sure that the majority of Muslims don’t make “jokes” about how suicide bombers are saints and how they should totally kill people so they can rise up against the heretics and impose sharia law.
… Canada has had hate speech laws on the books since at least 1985. And we’re by no means perfect, but I’m pretty sure that we haven’t had politicians who are even MORE racist in the last 30 years.
FUCK THAT. Even if only a small percentage of incels have actual violent inclinations, those large percentage that are just “blowing off steam” are providing cover to that violent minority. They are telling them that misogynistic violence is okay, even desirable. They are encouraging the behavior.
It just blows my mind. There have been two incel mass murders in 4 years that are confirmed. Someone linked something a while back with evidence that the Quebec mosque attacker might have been involved with incel as well as the more traditional alt-right. So there might be three in four years. Yet, despite the fact that violence is openly worshiped on their forums every day, there are still people who think it’s unreasonable to believe it’s a violent dangerous ideology. And yet. Valerie Solanas stabbed someone 50 years ago, so despite the fact that feminist groups do not constantly celebrate violence against men and “satirically” plan mass murders, rapes, and acid attacks, it is somehow perfectly reasonable to stereotype feminists as virulent man haters.
Does it compare the rise of support for racism and xenophobia in those countries to countries where there are no hate speech laws? Because, from what I can see, the resurgence of fascism is a global problem.
The US, is most certainly a really obvious example of lack of hate speech laws not preventing citizens from supporting racist and xenophobic politicians.
I feel like while on one hand it is a decent thing to do to trust people’s self reported experiences, on the other hand it is not something you can really follow through when dealing with a movement.
Every single hate movement that I can think of was presenting it’s members as victims, and this one is no exception. If you hear an unemployed neonazi talk of his being abused by a (insert a race they hate) boss at his job, you can’t take that on the face value.
It seems that incels had reached that point. The usual stuff – other people not noticing you (because there’s nothing noticeable), sexual rejection and such, becomes victimhood in their minds.
The fucking irony of incels asking for empathy is appalling.
“Don’t treat all incels like murderers; we’re human beings! Unlike women, who are all a bunch of evil shallow sluts!”
The problem isn’t your wrists or your canthial tilt, kid, it’s the fact that you’re a willfully hate-filled asshole who actively works to make sure you don’t change that fact.
That’s not something you were born with, and it’s not a genetic trait; it’s a choice you made, and one you continue to make every single day.
Whinging that Mammoth highlights incels’ misogyny is like complaining that books on the Titanic only mention the sinking.
I do think it’s worth pointing out a couple telling things about Creepy McCreepface here.
1) He clearly has the same kind of identity/ego issues that a lot of these alt-right types do as evidenced by:
I find this rather ironic given the way these types hang out on anonymous 4chan-style boards and Reddit. They need the protection of anonymity, yet living the anonymous cyber-life they do leaves them feeling devoid of identity. Almost like there’s some cognitive dissonance there they haven’t figured out how to resolve.
2) This obnoxious statement:
Let’s be clear about what “harmless” means. It means “free of legal consequences.” It’s not likely to get you in trouble with law enforcement, despite it clearly being harassment.
And most of the time, that’s all that’s needed to achieve the overall goal: fear and silence. I notice a lot of people use the lack of overt action to handwave away problems. “Christians aren’t the ones settings off bombs and running over people!” “How can it be a ‘rape culture’ if rape is considered so evil?” Well, who said that you needed to sexually assault a woman just to instill fear into her? A glare, a shadow, a text message, a door knock in the middle of the night… it all can serve to intimidate and thus enforce silence. And that’s what this is in service of: silence.
And yeah, Christians are just as capable of violence to advance a political cause. Even if one can handwave away the abortion terrorism, the sectarian violence during The Troubles are still only a couple decades in the past. I remember them and I’m only in my 30s. A YouTube search will net you dozens of archived news reports of Catholic/Protestant terrorist acts.
*UGH* This makes me remember when I was at a water park with my mother. I was twelve, and my breasts were just budded out. I was in the wave pool (which is like an ocean shore simulator) when an older male walked up to me and flat out asked me if I wanted to have sex with him. I started screaming for him to lleave me alone, to get away from me. Pretty sure I sounded terrified. Yet, despite being in the midst of a crowd, no one intervened. Not a single fucking person stepped up and told this man to stop harassing this little girl. I was so scared that I fled to the safety of my mother’s side and didn’t go back in the pool, even though I really wanted to.
That was 18 years ago, and I’m still leary of going to a public pool by myself.
@Weatherwax
Could it be reported to Amazon as promoting hate speech?
Just read the Daily Beast article that Kestrel linked and seconding everything everyone said here.
Seriously, quoting Warren effin’ Farrell unironically? Get real, Mandy Stadtmiller.
Again, I am floored that it hasn’t crossed any of these people’s minds that they’re not the first ones to experience this kind of existential angst regarding relationships and virginity! Both @the_left_fox and I shared similar paths in a thread last week, finding connections in the furry community and fostering identity that way. We’ve been Jack Peterson! None of this is new! And with the internet having grown by leaps and bounds since TLF and I were 16, there’s only been more resources available for vulnerable young men than we had to work with! We found constructive ways out!
So it’s not that there hasn’t been any resources for men who may have had an abusive partner (taking Stadtmiller’s word that she has seen proof of Peterson’s claims and the abusive nature of this relationship was not mutual). The thing is that what these resources don’t offer is the answer that men want to hear: it’s women’s fault. The woman that Peterson describes appears to have internalized a lot of the same misogynist behaviour that men engage all the freakin’ time. Who is it that admonishes men for being virgins? Who is it that compares penis sizes in the men’s locker room? Not women, cuz they ain’t there! That’s all on dudes. If an abusive woman seizes on it, it’s because they know that’s where men’s egos can be bruised. So maybe it’s incumbent upon men to build senses of self that go beyond the genital area.
The notion that masculinity has failed men is true, but not for the reasons that everyone in the article is grasping at. It needs to be expanded from the painfully narrow definition it currently has. And Jordan B. Peterson (of course Jack is a Jordan B fan) has no intention of expanding that definition. On the contrary, activism is the source of all problems, according to him. Just sort yourself out according to society’s rules and things magically work out. Because lobsters or something.
TL;DR — Like a computer problem, you’re not the first one to have it, Incel McIncelface.
Well, that’s the Daily Beast on my ‘never read this website’ list. It seems to have been expanding more and more.
What a disgusting article. The stuff about ‘mischaracterisation’ reminds me of Cassie Jaye and her film.
I’ve definitely read this before, but I’m not sure if it was from here or linked either in Discord or on Reddit.
The final line is what really gets me, I think. The guy is relishing making teenagers feel paranoid and afraid, and then calls it “harmless psychological fun”. The fact that he doesn’t consider it harassment is bad enough and I daresay the vehement denial of sexual violence is just panicked ass-covering, but that conclusion really just proves everything regarding how assorted manosphere groups view “feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeemales”.
EDIT: Side note and unrelated, after I started reading here, I started paying attention to how often people refer to women as “females” in casual conversations. It shows up with frightening frequency, even from women.
“(Now, I want to make clear that I absolutely abhor rape and did not have any intention in that direction, not molestation not any of that.)”
Sure! We believe you.
“I know it is kind of low-level behaviour.”
Kind of?
Find out who this guy is, where he lives, and alert local law enforcement.
His whole description makes my chest hurt. I can feel the times I’ve been those poor girls he follows and it’s awful. As has been mentioned, this kind of shit is why women are cautious around all men. We know there are good ones but we can’t afford to take chances with creeps like this out there pretending they are okay just because (hopefully he is truthful) they haven’t actually touched anyone.
As to that awful article…I’m always a little confused by the guys who have been hurt in some way by a woman they were dating and then turn to something like Incel Culture. They’ve dated before, thus proving they can, which is something Incel’s claim they can’t do isn’t it?
Like just because you had one bad relationship doesn’t mean you can never have another good one. If it did I feel like most people would be forever single. It’s not like everyone but these guys hits the relationship jackpot on the first go.
The ‘I can’t help it, I’ve been bullied!’ thing really gets my goat.
Yes. You can help it.
I’ve been bullied all my school career, I’ve been abused by some of my primary school teachers, I’ve been abused by my thesis supervisor, I had to deal with sexual harassment since I was twelve, now I’m harassed because I’m fat.
And I’m pretty damn sure that if I step out on the street, stop ten strangers, at least two of them will have experienced pretty much the same thing I did.
And most people manage to move on some way without turning into hate filled sacks of garbage.
It took me some time to develop healthy coping mechanisms and it took therapy to finally make peace with the past.
But it is possible.
To all incels:
Stop wallowing in self pity, give yourself a kick in the pants and do something to improve yourself!
“Stop wallowing in self pity, give yourself a kick in the pants and do something to improve yourself!”
That’s where the PUAs step in and say “we’re teaching men to improve themselves”.
Speaking of improving – could you please use blockquotes? Makes life much easier.
Something that struck me from the article Kestrel linked was the claim that “girls are never wrong”; where the hell do they get this crap from? How can you not see women and girls getting criticized for all kinds of shit?
The fact that a lot of that criticism is unwarranted doesn’t in any way, shape, or form imply that women don’t fuck up too.
…fucking delusional shitstains. How much cognitive work does it take to actually believe this crap?
Is this creep aware that many 14 year old girls today have cell phones they can use to call 911? It’s like he’s fixing to land on the predator list, or fixing for a good beating from someone’s father or brother.
The idiocy confounds me.
@Alan : I agree that doxxing them is a good way to make a number of them behave. The alt right began to falter when, after that horrible march, a lot of them were actually publicaly shamed as neo nazis.
Honestly, the best solutions would be to have a reliable police force that would be able to get the identity of people doing that kind of shit, and then going to warn them IRL. Or arrest them and prosecute them, depending on how dangerous what they say is ; the example here is a lot closer to “prosecution” to me.
That being said, most country don’t have a reliable enough police force for that. While the impunity of people on internet being to falter quite a lot, I think we can’t count on this alone. It’s similar to how a lot of rapes aren’t reported : trying to go the legal way against online hate will backfire for a lot of people.
So, in short : I don’t want people to be doxxed in general, don’t really want to make an exception for terrorists like the bozo here, but I agree it’s an actual solutions whose drawbacks aren’t quite as dire as some other problems, and that it’s a way for some targeted people to actually fight back without making their life even worse.
@WWTH : I would add that “blowing off steam” actually make anger worse. It don’t calm them or any thing like that, it just make them angrier and more dangerous. That’s in addition of every problem you listed.
He is a predator and should be on a list. On the other hand you never know if what these people write is true or not. It could be someone just b.s.ing or even inciting guys to do this as a joke, prank. But if it’s for real and if a girl did ever call 911, you can be sure he’d be back on the net in no time whining over the “injustice” of some “innocent” guy like him being 911’d over “merely walking”.
That’s a patriarchal trope, similar to Aging Chad’s ideas.
Idli,
Maybe, but if dad or brother is the first person that girl calls instead of 911, it’s still likely to happen, partriarchal or not.