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alt-right incel men who should not ever be with women ever misogyny

Check out my piece in the Globe and Mail on shutting incels down online

Shut it

By David Futrelle

Check out my piece at the Globe and Mail today about shutting incel forums the hell down. Here’s a snippet:

[I]f appeals to shared humanity are out, is there anything else we can do? We may not be able to win back those who have plunged too deeply into the incel rabbit hole, but we can take steps to limit their ability to recruit new members. Incels aren’t born; they’re made. Sure, most new incel recruits start out embittered and lonely. But they are radicalized by their incel peers on a relatively small number of message boards devoted to the incel ideology.

So we should take a page from the anti-fascist activists who’ve done so much to kick back against the so-called “alt-right” over the last year – not only by confronting the fascists in the streets but also working diligently behind the scenes to take away their platforms online.

You can find the piece here.

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IgnoreSandra - Lady of Smoke

So I guess fixing toxic masculinity is out then…

Of course it’s out. He doesn’t actually care about making the situation better, or he’d be listening when women offer solutions.

You can’t, you just can’t, let your right and wrong be determined by what other people find socially acceptable. Even if it doesn’t have a lot of support, what’s right needs to be done. That’s how women won the right to vote – by fighting and bleeding and in some cases dying for it even as misogynist men continued to deny that it was nothing more or less than what was right.

Though frankly, if we were interested in justice as a culture, women’s votes would be worth double until a period of time equal to the time we couldn’t vote had elapsed. Similar stuff should have happened with people of color.

The world is changed by people who actually go out and solve those problems, who do the right thing no matter how many people oppose them, whether that’s by protesting in the streets or making it that much harder to do the wrong thing any way they can.

Violet the Vile, Wielder of an Ideologically Weaponised Vagina
Violet the Vile, Wielder of an Ideologically Weaponised Vagina
3 years ago

@Chad

How about if the solution is the one WWTH offered?

Here’s a tip: try reframing your argument as “I don’t agree” rather than “you’re wrong”. All we are doing is sharing opinions here. When you don’t agree with something, it doesn’t mean it’s “wrong”, it makes it a different point of view.

For what it’s worth, the solution you appear to be offering (correct me if I’m wrong, but this appears to be: 1) allow children to bully each other and encourage them to fight back (which is not a lot of good to those who are not natural fighters or prone to depression btw) 2) everyone should get out into the fresh air more (well, I do agree with that actually, being a hippy. We could all use more time with trees) and do forced group sport (oh….you ruined it) 3) parents should use physical violence to subdue those things about their children they don’t like (such as smashing computers) and 4) the Modern World Is Bad) suggests you’d be more at home on a MRA forum than here.

Here’s another thought; what if there is no easy solution? What if this is the product of a lot of incredibly complex factors and there is no button we can push to make it go away? I mean, I know it’s hard to accept, but what if you can’t just fix it by imposing your own preferences on the whole of the rest of society?

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

I’m wondering why expecting men to be better is not a solution. The success the MeToo movement is having is a perfect example of how demanding that men be better or face the consequences is a workable solution.

I know men don’t like hearing that they should treat women better. Or that they should treat other better. But that doesn’t mean it’s a bad solution.

I suspect however, that Aging Chad is looking for some way to foist the responsibility for ending misogyny solely on its victims. Because asking men to be better? That’s just uppity. That’s the not the old left old labor neoliberal capitalist boys club way, and that’s just bad!

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
3 years ago

Jees, this thread. I’m not even done writing this, but I’m gonna post it anyways before I’m completely behind.

@Aging Chad,

my duck,

my egg.

Shall we take a walk through the cratered fields of your exposition?

On Primate Behaviour

with regard to primate social behavior, pecking orders and peer correction

in tune with our primate ancestry,

You are engaging in something called the naturalistic fallacy. Further, you are engaging it based on an assumption of what human primate behaviour is. Primate behaviour is extraordinarily diverse along the clade, and covers such a wide range of social systems that any behaviour can be pointed to as primate behaviour. Know why? Cause human behaviour is already primate behaviour.

Asking bullies to not bully is not unnatural primate behaviour. Because we’re primates. Asking bullies to not bully because bullying is wrong is not unnatural behaviour. Because we’re primates.

Rape, as it turns out, is also used as a social enforcement behaviour, in exactly the same way as bullying is. Do I need to connect those dots for you as well?

Bullying and rape are poor mechanisms for making societies work. If you want to talk about that, take it up with the primary literature before you come wading in here to espouse your opinions as if they were Antidiluvian wisdom. Maybe try engaging in some real anthropology before you start beaking off about us not doing enough creative anthropology, because creative science is a synonym for wrong science.

On Personal Experience

my own learning experience in a blue collar, left-labor dominated, urban Catholic all-male school left me with some impressions … that may have some light to shine on dealing with the toxicity of incels and the infernal stupidity of gamergate.

I kind of like that – the people seem pretty damned happy and content to engage in the normal activities of daily living, and don’t spend a lot of time online unless they’re looking for intimate partners.

Okay, this is not an uncommon behaviour, so I’ll try to be gentle. Please take out your pencils and write this down. Personal experience cannot be transcribed to universal experience. Because – guess what – you’re flawed. We all are. You don’t see things that other people experience, and your experiences aren’t more objective or correct than theirs.

For example – you say that you saw your adolescent girls do things that were unconscionably cruel, but you didn’t see boys doing the same. This is not evidence that girls are more cruel than boys, it is evidence that you perceive girls to be more cruel than boys.. There are many reasons that you might perceive that, and of those many reasons, exactly one of them is that it is true. The fact that our society naturally minimizes and denigrates girls, and searches for ways to make them seem lesser, is enough that you should heavily doubt anything you believe about gendered differences between children.

Throw out everything you think you know about inherent differences between men and women. It’s almost certainly wrong. (That goes for pretty much everyone, by the way)

And I’m sorry, but I’m really, at my core, an analog guy and am not impressed with much electronic “art”.

Let me repeat that for you again. Your personal opinions don’t matter. No one gives a shit if you do or do not like electronic art, and your opinion on it neither credits nor harms its value.

One of the central tenets of the toxic masculinity you bemoan is taht boys are taught that opinions are assertions and can be interchanged with facts.

On Your Refusal to Engage

I’ll do these piecemeal.

Give me something to work with besides “men should just be better” or “speeches about peacemaking and misogyny will solve all of this” that can actually have the potential of implementation.

You can gripe all you want about this not “teaching boys to leave toxic masculinity” (with whatever the pluperfect hell that entails),

You know, there are books on this topic. There are, in fact, entire university programs and academic journals on it. Magazines, websites, blogs, that could give you an inkling of what “teaching boys to leave toxic masculinity” means.

But you’re not interested in learning that, ’cause you like masculinity as it is. You like bullying, and like using violence to enforce social norms. So you pretend that the idea of toxic masculinity is incoherent and unimplementable, and say that you need real solutions.

“Real” solutions in that guise are just solutions that don’t budge the status quo. Which won’t fix anything. Allowing boys to bully other boys wouldn’t do anything but push that resentment deeper inside them, sounds like a great idea. Oh, wait, it worked for you, you say, so of course it’d work for everyone everywhere.

Ugh.

This gets me back to the point of the utility of The Great Firewall in Chinese society right now.

Do you know Chinese people, living in China?

I recall one Chinese exchange student from Beijing Normal that we hosted for a summer. She was in tears at the freedom we have here. She went home resolved to improve conditions for her family, specifically she learned that it was possible to fight for the rights of disabled people to get ramps in sidewalks for wheelchairs and scooters.

You’re pluperfectly allowed to give away your own rights, you Dark Enlightenment ponce, but don’t you dare try to take everyone else’s.

I’ll write more as time and patience allows.

cornychips
cornychips
3 years ago

Seagull?????

Looks guise! He’s here looking for answers dammit! He looking for solutions! /s

I lived in a conservative Christian proto fascist culture. Boys were the worst bullies to me, their taunting started my cutting phase. I do not think 14 year old boys should be policing other children’s lives. Who the fuck really thinks that?

And yeah. This thread is lots of whataboutthemenz all over it. *sigh* has been here before in a incel thread telling us to be sad for incels or some shit. And did it in a condescending way, with all the sighing and shut. It irked me wrong.

And Chad is wroooong. He doesn’t listen to anything the women have been saying. Like feministguy. But he wants mommy to fix all the problems. And let boys decide what is acceptable social behavior?wtf. And videogames are the enemy?bullshit.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
3 years ago

@Violet,

For what it’s worth, the solution you appear to be offering (correct me if I’m wrong, but this appears to be: 1) allow children to bully each other and encourage them to fight back (which is not a lot of good to those who are not natural fighters or prone to depression btw) 2) everyone should get out into the fresh air more (well, I do agree with that actually, being a hippy. We could all use more time with trees) and do forced group sport (oh….you ruined it) 3) parents should use physical violence to subdue those things about their children they don’t like (such as smashing computers) and 4) the Modern World Is Bad) suggests you’d be more at home on a MRA forum than here.

Lol, you put it so clearly.

I’ve never seen anyone argue that Lord of the Flies was an example of a good environment for children, but Chad here’s about done it.

kupo
kupo
3 years ago

I’m wondering why expecting men to be better is not a solution.

But then Chad here would have to do better.

Violet the Vile, Wielder of an Ideologically Weaponised Vagina
Violet the Vile, Wielder of an Ideologically Weaponised Vagina
3 years ago

@Scildfreja

So much worship <3

IgnoreSandra - Lady of Smoke

@Aging Chad

Honestly, when I was little I wasn’t much of a fighter. I know because I was bullied and abused relentlessly, both physically and psychologically, and though I made my caretakers aware numerous times they said it was my fault for being a bitch. Also, what the hell is the point of fighting if the bullying is psychological?

On video games…I spent two to four hours a day playing video games when I was growing up. They were my escape, and helped me maintain my sanity. (See: Relentless bullying, above). My parents did force me to do one sports thing a year, and as a result I hate soccer where I was bullied, and I hate basketball where I became the team pariah for being honest even when it meant the team lost a point, I actually liked ballet but mom didn’t like that I liked ballet, and I hate team swimming and have developed a bit of a thing about being touched because I was bullied there.

I know for an absolute fact that if I had to witness my games, my escape, being hit with a sledgehammer… I learned not to cry growing up, that this signal would not get me help and only increase my problems… but still did a few times. That would have been one of those times, as the place I could just be me was destroyed in front of my eyes by people who would then turn around a second later, and lie to my face and say they loved me.

Know what would have made my childhood easier? If my bullies had been stopped, and not by some hero fantasy me. I was weak, but that didn’t mean I deserved to be treated like shit.

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
3 years ago

Re: Chad –

And I’m sorry, but I’m really, at my core, an analog guy and am not impressed with much electronic “art”. There’s something to be said to selecting your photo carefully because film is expensive and you only have so many shot. Visual arts have to be done slowly, deliberately.

NO. No, no no no no. You are just wrong. You are so far into wrongtown on this that the busses have stopped running, and you will need to stay there overnight and bask in just how wrong you are.

Let’s play a game where you we go back, like, a hundred years. I have on a very nice suit (trust me on this), and you are wearing whatever you want to be wearing. You say:

And I’m sorry, but I’m really, at my core, an analog guy and am not impressed with much photographic “art”. There’s something to be said to selecting your pigments carefully because paint is expensive and you only have so many canvases. Visual arts have to be done slowly, deliberately.

Let’s go back further:

And I’m sorry, but I’m really, at my core, an analog guy and am not impressed with much painted “art”. There’s something to be said to selecting your tools carefully because bronze is expensive and you only have so much. Visual arts have to be done slowly, deliberately.

Let’s go back FURTHER:

And I’m sorry, but I’m really, at my core, an analog guy and am not impressed with much NOT CAVE “art”. There’s something to be said to selecting your CAVE carefully because CAVES ARE HARD TO GET INTO and you only have so many CAVES. Visual arts have to be done slowly, deliberately.

You are basically doing this:
comment image

I was just talking with a random photographer I met on the bus, and he said “You know what the best camera is? The one you use.”

You are gatekeeping who can be considered artists. You are stopping kids who do not have any way to access darkrooms from practising their art. Where the hell do you want anyone to go to actually develop stuff, these days?

I run into this in my job, from old farts who are angry that they can’t keep working the way they did in the 80s. I’m sorry too, but the world has changed, and you need to adapt or you will not find any jobs.

Note: I chose art, because I hate this idea so much and probably no one else would react to it.
comment image

image from this article, maybe you should read it.

Also, you want a workable solution? Try this one:

men should just be better

IgnoreSandra - Lady of Smoke

@ Scildfreja

As always, that was amazing, and you are amazing.

Also the same for Rhuu.

That’s exactly what he’s doing and what he sounds like.

Aging Chad
Aging Chad
3 years ago

Screw it – y’all win, and have driven me from the conversation because I’m either some sort of unconscious MRA guy at heart who should be with my own kind OR am an imperfect ally, and therefore a witch to be crushed at the sacrificial altar of a sophomore seminar on grievance non-solutions.

Plus, I have to complete my tasks I set for myself today.

I shan’t be revisiting this site and wish you the best (you’ll need it), but do consider that in your zeal to combat rage, you don’t become the rage you hate – it is going to consume you.

Ciao.

Jesalin
Jesalin
3 years ago

Annnd flounce. I knew that was coming.

Violet the Vile, Wielder of an Ideologically Weaponised Vagina
Violet the Vile, Wielder of an Ideologically Weaponised Vagina
3 years ago

Oh snap, I’m sorry to hear that, Chad.

Do come back if you ever want to have a conversation where you listen as well as talk.

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
3 years ago

FLOUNCED.

Aging Chad “Hey, I’m going to say some really problematic things! Just accept them, right? You all want allies?”

WHTM: Um, here are reasons why those things you said are problematic.

Aging Chad: “WHAT I’M GOING TO DOUBLE DOWN”

WHTM: “NO.”

Aging Chad: “Why aren’t you nicer to me? So much for the Tolerant Left!”

Maybe you should also check this shit out, the Paradox of Tolerance. It’s from the forties, so hopefully that’s old enough to be relevant to you.

PeeVee the Tired
PeeVee the Tired
3 years ago

This thread.

Jesus Haploid Christ, this thread.

Rhuu, guaranteed that Chadly thinks Popper are things filled with cream cheese.

Josh
Josh
3 years ago

Screw it – y’all win, and have driven me from the conversation because I’m either some sort of unconscious MRA guy at heart who should be with my own kind OR am an imperfect ally, and therefore a witch to be crushed at the sacrificial altar of a sophomore seminar on grievance non-solutions.

Can you be any more pretentious?

IgnoreSandra - Lady of Smoke

And we have a flusterbounce! Or blusterquit! Whatever, another guy who simply won’t engage with the reality that he tried to peddle bullshit and we didn’t buy it.

Screw it – y’all win, and have driven me from the conversation because I’m either some sort of unconscious MRA guy at heart who should be with my own kind

Nah, we just want you to be a good human being, and that means addressing the misogyny you displayed to us. We expect men to be better. That’s the solution.

OR am an imperfect ally, and therefore a witch to be crushed at the sacrificial altar of a sophomore seminar on grievance non-solutions.

Yep, because “imperfect” is the same as “Active proponent of bullying, and opponent to any circumstance that might cause men to not feel free to act like shitheads to other people”. Oh wait, no, that’s misogyny and antifeminism. Also look at the coding of academic language in a villainous light.

Plus, I have to complete my tasks I set for myself today.

Ah yes, the vague insinuation that you, a MAN, unlike us girls, actually have work you do in a day. Can’t have a defeat in detail without it.

I shan’t be revisiting this site and wish you the best (you’ll need it), but do consider that in your zeal to combat rage, you don’t become the rage you hate – it is going to consume you.

Oh yes. We’re angry mean little bitches because when you peddle bullshit, we refuse to buy it and instead demonstrate why we don’t buy it.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Two things.

If Chad really wants to go the primate route. Well, fine. Lookie here, the culture in a particular troop of baboons changed and males learned to be less aggressive. It’s almost like primates aren’t necessarily inherently violent, are subject to culture, and their culture can change. Just like humans!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC387823/

The results were positive for both the female and the male baboons in the troop.

Now in this instance, the aggressive males all died and that’s what changed the group dynamic. But I don’t think we need kill all aggressive males to change the culture in humans. We can perhaps get similar results by making male aggression socially unacceptable. As someone noted on the previous page, this is already happening. Once we stopped being so accepting of domestic violence by allowing no fault divorce, providing resources for victims, and enforcing laws against IPV, rates of domestic violence went down.

The second thing I wanted to note. How ridiculous is it that we have someone claiming that young people in groups don’t do anything positive anymore and the internet can’t be used for positive change when in the past couple of months we’ve seen young people organize in massive numbers – largely using social media as a tool – to protest gun violence. Not only protest gun violence, but doing massive voter registration drives. And they’ve made sure to do it in a gender and race inclusive way. How dare anyone pull this “kids these days” crap when right now young people are more politically active and engaged than I’ve seen in my entire lifetime.

Violet the Vile, Wielder of an Ideologically Weaponised Vagina
Violet the Vile, Wielder of an Ideologically Weaponised Vagina
3 years ago

@Chad And if you ever do come back, please do answer the following questions:

1) Why should I not expect men to be better? I can name seven women I know who’ve been raped off the top of my head, one who was raped after being given rohypnol, and one who was given rohypnol and only saved from rape because her friends were smart enough to realise she was acting out of character. Yes. I expect men to be better than this.

2) Why should I not be angry? I’ve been shouted down, talked over, sexually assaulted, stalked, intimidated and told to “fucking smile” by men since I was 13. I have had to talk through the rapes mentioned above with friend after friend (of course they were all boyfriends/acquaintances/happened while drunk, so no point going to the police. Didn’t stop the PTSD though). I am angry. I am really, really fucking angry. Please explain to me why this is wrong.

EDIT: *deep breath* Okay, I’m good now.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Oh, how sad we are to have missed an opportunity to ally with a man who engages in the very toxic masculinity that feminism is fighting against. However will the movement survive without Chad!?

Violet the Vile, Wielder of an Ideologically Weaponised Vagina
Violet the Vile, Wielder of an Ideologically Weaponised Vagina
3 years ago

@WWTH
It’s going to be a struggle, right? But we’ll just have to muddle through somehow.

Jesalin
Jesalin
3 years ago

Oh deary, deary me, without Chad around how will we know if we’re feministing right?

LindsayIrene
3 years ago

But y’all’ve only been talking about these issues on this site for, what, slightly less than a decade? How dare you reject a hot take from a man who just showed up yesterday! He was a man! With thoughts!

Violet the Vile, Wielder of an Ideologically Weaponised Vagina
Violet the Vile, Wielder of an Ideologically Weaponised Vagina
3 years ago

@Jesalin

We might get all angry and then our ladybrains will overheat and we’ll let kids do unacceptable forms of art

IgnoreSandra - Lady of Smoke

I know my easily distracted little female brain is going to have a hard time doing this whole “Fighting for my fundamental human rights” thing without a toxic man telling me when I’m doing it wrong.

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
3 years ago

Well I’m going to go and accomplish my tasks for today, which involve hanging out with and supporting a friend who’s going through some toxic ass bullshit right now.

I’m really hoping men start stepping up to the plate and just being better. It would really help everyone.

Bakunin
Bakunin
3 years ago

So what’s the over-under on Aging Chad and indli sambar revolution being socks?

@Aging Chad
And I remember being “corrected” if I stepped out of the hetero-cis line, so fuck off.

There’s a bare hint of sense in that men should set the example for their peers, but coercing participation in team sports, threatening violence and bullying, and destroying property isn’t even close to any sort of example that we need.

Seriously, listen to the people here. Your plan doesn’t fix this shit, it papers over it with it’s own variety of toxicity. Hammering anyone outside your mold just hurts far more than it could possibly help.

Kevin
Kevin
3 years ago

@ Scildfreja

Re: Lord of the Flies. Worrying thought that William Golding was a school teacher when he wrote it.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
3 years ago

@Chad, you’re an ally of the evil that created the incels. You want to “fix” the problem” by pushing it underground. In other words, you want women to be just as abused, bulled, and miserable, you’d just rather that you didn’t hear about it. Those are the end results of what you prescribe.

How long have you know about these incels, Chad? We’ve been following their hate for years, and you wade in here and expect to dispense your wisdom like a gymnosperm. We’ve been doing this for awhile, we don’t need Anonybro showing up to tell us we’re doing it wrong while citing anti-feminist talking points as if they were written on stone tablets from the peak of Mt Sinai.

But you’re gone now, and in your departure you make an excellent example on why we shouldn’t struggle too hard to please centrist “allies.” The moment they are criticized or confronted with something they don’t like, their convictions disappear. Their concern for the issues of patriarchy dissolve like cotton candy in the rain. Their desire to help others is overwhelmed by the desire to protect themselves, and they retreat. Chad, I name thee Cassie Jaye.

Bye, Felicia

TreePerson
TreePerson
3 years ago

Well that was well something.

There is always something enjoyable about watching the masters at work ripping into sealions.

Cindy
Cindy
3 years ago

@Aging chad

I think you should keep working on that flounce.

Also, David, could you ban that fucko? Just in case?

Nequam
Nequam
3 years ago

@Chad:

comment image

Shadowplay
3 years ago

Idiot gone?

Shadowplay
3 years ago

Sorry to DP –

What do you do about this masculist macho bullshit?

Try this for example. Not standing for it is a pretty good response.

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
3 years ago

Wow. I’m in awe. Y’all are just amazing.

@Violet
All the sympathies, and all the healing, to you and your friends. Men are such bastards.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
3 years ago

@Cyborgette, have you never seen the traditional MRA-roast? It’s one of my favourite traditions here 😀 Extra points for adjectiving good.

Robert Walker-Smith
Robert Walker-Smith
3 years ago

I remember being bullied on the playground at recess in elementary school. I told adults in charge about it, and kept doing so until the adults got so fed up that they actually did something, and the bullies realized that bullying me was not having the desired effect. It helped tremendously that the faculty and staff knew my parents would back me up. I wasn’t popular because of it, but it never occurred to me that being popular on the playground was a desirable outcome.

I was the sixth child of seven, so my parents had had a lot of experience by then.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
3 years ago

I wanna write more about the whole “bullying as social regulation” thing, because it’s important to finish the dissection so that the disease is laid bare to the class. But I have toddlers to wrangle. Maybe this afternoon.

Violet the Vile, Wielder of an Ideologically Weaponised Vagina
Violet the Vile, Wielder of an Ideologically Weaponised Vagina
3 years ago

@cyborgette

Hey, thanks 🙂

I prefer “some men are bastards”. I have male friends I love and have deep friendships with. I love my boyfriend.

Somehow it feels like if I ever descend into hating men generally, the assholes will have won because they’ll have made me normalise their behaviour to all men, just like they want.

No, your bad behaviour does not get to make me hate all men, you don’t get to take my friends away from me and poison my relationship. No, I don’t think all men are rapists, because it is not normal to be a rapist. Stop pretending it is. STOP PRETENDING YOU ARE ALL NORMAL MEN, ALL YOU ABUSERS, RAPISTS, INCELS AND MRAS. YOU ARE NOT NORMAL. YOU ARE NOT REPRESENTATIVE. YOU ARE NOT “JUST THE WAY MEN ARE”.

That’s how they get away with it, you know. They talk like they are normal and everyone goes along with it, even all the people who are secretly thinking “o is this normal? am I the weird one?”

I’m a clear thinker. I don’t hate men. I just hate assholes 🙂

Anyway, as my parting gift before I go to bed, please have Daphne and Celeste making friends with an alien. It’s OT but I am legit in love with it and have been playing it on repeat because it makes me happy 🙂

Or…not. That doesn’t seem to be working. If you want to see it, it’s called Alarms 🙂

Who?
Who?
3 years ago

Violet: Congrats on the above post, Scildfreja Unnyðnes was as always amazing.
I don’t think that was more than havy disagreeament, what was predictable from the get go.
If this was enough to drive Aging Chad (the nom did scream bad faith btw) away, that is kind of lame for him.

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

Holy shit. Aging Chad completely ignored what WWTH posted, demanded solutions, and wrote off their reply as bumper stickers without functionally engaging with them in the slightest.

Work on your shit Aging Chad. This,

My guess is that male entitlement and the dehumanization of women are so deeply entrenched in our culture that changing it would require just about everyone to look harshly at themselves and a lot of their attitudes. It would require most major religions to change. It would require people to listen to women. It would require companies to stop using commodified female bodies to sell their products. It would require parents to actively teach their sons to view women as equals. It would require companies to hire and promote women beyond the bare minimum required to not break the law. It would require men and boys to self police in the way he seems to wrongly believe they ever did. Etc, etc. It’s all just too hard. So we might as well close our eyes to the problem.

Is actual substance, and wouldn’t actually fit on a bumper sticker just to be overly literal.

Take it from someone who’s managed to find a way to be helpful and STILL finds shit to work on in couple counseling, those aren’t cheap and shallow political slogans.

Zatar
Zatar
3 years ago

Damn I go off to work and when I get back the troll has already flounced.

Oh well I’m sure he’ll be happier in a place more tolerant of allies in favor of *squints at paper* “Encouraging bullying and talking over women.”

Yutolia
Yutolia
3 years ago

Hehehe. Chad reminds me of an onion article:

https://www.theonion.com/man-finally-put-in-charge-of-struggling-feminist-moveme-1819569515

Glad he flounced. Reminded me a lot of fguy too.

Cyborgette
Cyborgette
3 years ago

@Scildfreja

This… seems like a most excellent tradition. 🙂

@Violet

Legit; to each her own feelings/strategies/goals/etc.

I don’t disagree with any of what you say, just… IDK, cynicism and paranoia towards men have helped keep me alive a bunch, and reality has done little to debunk them. YMMV.

idli sambar revolution
idli sambar revolution
3 years ago

Chad, are you trying to say that when men and boys exhibit misogynistic, bullying behavior they should be socially shamed by pointing out their wrong attitudes? Like speaking up when you hear sexist, racist, bigoted banter and stuff? If that’s what you’re trying so say, then ok. Somehow you didn’t express that efficiently.

Zatar
Zatar
3 years ago

idli sambar revolution

Look we get it, you are incapable of seeing anything wrong with what Chad said. You don’t have to belabor the point.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
3 years ago

Wow, fguy’s ban didn’t last long did it?

calmdown
calmdown
3 years ago

bullying as social regulation

My Dad was a big believer in this. In middle school I was being harassed by some other girls and decided to go to the assistant principal because I couldn’t get them to stop. He said I was breaking the “rules of the playground” by getting an adult to interfere. He also believed the bullying would make you stronger/smarter if you dealt with it yourself. I’m surprised he didn’t say “Maybe those girls have some good points about how lame you are, why can’t you just stop being weird?”

Chad also sounds like a Jordan Peterson type, saying these guys just need to play less video games and to clean their room and that’s going to fix them.

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
3 years ago

Chad reminded me of this cartoon from the incomparable @Ciaraioch on Twitter:

comment image

Also, it’s a new morning here and with the night’s sleep to refresh my mood, I have realised that … nope. Still a really weird thread 😐