By David Futrelle
I‘ve got a piece up on the Elle website about Toronto van attack suspect Alek Minassian and the dangers of future “incel” terrorism.
Here’s a snippet from it:
[T]he incel subculture … takes the bitterness and sadness we sometimes feel when faced with sexual and romantic frustrations and turns this misery into a mode of being. …
Incels hate women, yes, but they hate themselves nearly as much, and the incel subculture not only encourages both kinds of hatred, but it teaches them that there is no way out. This is what makes the incel subculture so poisonous to everyone it touches. It has transformed young men dealing with depression — or simply the ordinary unhappiness of life — into a veritable underground army of angry, bitter misogynists who feel they have nothing to live for and have no hope of improving their lives in what they see as our “gynocentric” society.
If these young men aren’t stopped, there will be more horrors like what we saw this week in Toronto, if not worse. In the forums on incel hangout Incels.me, some are already hailing Minassian as a hero, and looking forward to the next wave of incel terror attacks.
You can find the piece here.
@Paradoxical Intention, Victorious Parasol Some small good news, anyway. <3
They actually charged Cosby?
yesssssss
And, @mildlymagnificent, thank you for that paper! Really nice work on the part of the researchers, and some very clear outcomes. Though, important to note that it all rests on the accuracy of gaze tracking being an appropriate indicator of opinions, which is not the steadiest of ground. But it’s good!
I’m wondering if at some point Trump is going to tweet about what a good guy Cosby is.
@Brony
For aboriginal activists, I could buy their sincerity, but for a bunch of non-aboriginal gawkers on the sidelines, it’s definitely mean to derail and distract.
I still remember an exchange between a YouTube named Tyler Street (who is white but knows his stuff regarding aboriginal issues) and a trio of MRA-adjacent chuckleheads who were clearly just trying to pull a gotcha when Street was talking about the Highway of Tears. “Well what about aboriginal men?” asks the Scottish MRA dipshit who hadn’t heard of the Highway of Tears before Street had even mentioned it.
It devolved from there.
@Scildfreja
Not just charged, but found guilty, guilty, guilty.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/26/us/bill-cosby-trial/index.html
I was just to post bout Cosby. I’m with WWTH, I hope it sticks.
http://westernfreepress.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/i0.wp.comwww.powerlineblog.comed-assets201607doonesbury-79885377fd2680b15368b6b3cc15e3fecc90408e.gif
doesn’t actively project an attitude of hatred of women.
@Eveloria
You’re very welcome. And yeah, it was hard with friends, but I can’t imagine what it would be like to see the process starting in close family.
Also Reiterating what Scildfreja Unnyðnes said – take care of yourself too. The brainwashing/propaganda aspect doesn’t resolve men of responsibility; if your brother is in fact going down this path, it is ultimately his choice, and you aren’t obligated to endanger yourself to protect him from his voluntary decisions (including dealing with his emotional shit).
Best of luck, and fingers crossed that he’ll start turning away from it on his own. 🙁
@Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Mmm, misandry. Can’t get enough of that stuff. The candles and hand towels won’t go amiss either. 🙂
Great on getting this article out there! Hope it reaches as many information-seeking readers as possible.
That incel obsession with wrist size… I can safely say that, as a straight woman, I’ve never looked at a man’s wrists.
The key thing about incels is that their focus is totally on other men.
They are homosocials, believing in a gender apartheid and strict gender roles. Women basically don’t exist to them as human beings except as they pertain to them relating to other men.
They want to join and be accepted by an imagined group of men that they aspire to, to affirm themselves, to have a social life, to be part of a ‘pack’, to belong, to have an identity.
To that end a girlfriend is just a ‘ticket’ they see as necessary for entry to such groups. Even if they actually had one, they’d spend as little time with them as they could possibly get away with (probably just for sex) and spend all their time with their male pack.
When they cannot get entry into the pack they want (and believe they have a right) to join they then invent reasons for it. In incels case it is lack of said girlfriend(s). They then fixate of that and invent emotionally comfortable reasons why that is the case, the classic being their obsession with their looks, which is easier for them to deal with than examining their poor social skills (etc).
It is also far easier to blame a third party (this phenomena applies all over the place) for their exclusion, rather than the actual people who are (seemingly) excluding them. In incels’ case this is women, who they mostly blame for their exclusion from the ‘jock’ packs they seem to aspire to, rather than the men in those groups themselves. They are jealous of those ‘chads’, but they hate the ‘staceys’ who they see as the reason why they are not ‘chads’ themselves.
And no doubt many kids of this type go through that phase, but as time goes on they meet other people, start to socialise, find hobbies and activities they are interested in, meet girls and so on.
But in incels case they gang up with others like them creating an echo chamber that amplifies their invented reasons. This then becomes sort of ‘their’ pack with its own rules of belonging, its own hierarchy and ‘virtue signaling’. Because this is based in anger, hatred and blaming of women for what they see wrong with their lives, the greater they express that then the more hierarchy points they get.
Even so, the vast majority probably wouldn’t do anything more than whinge endlessly ..unless some sort of ‘leader’ comes along, possibly sociopathic or worse psychopathic who ramps up the extremism even more. The majority being at heart ‘pack followers’ take on this extremism, egging each other on, signaling to each other, trying to find their place in this hierarchy by being ever more extreme.
This is what is known as ‘radicalisation’, seen in other groups (such as some young Muslim men, white supremists, etc, etc ). It is a well studied phenomena.
Then one actually does something violent and gets praised by the pack, so another then copies it …and down the slope they go.
This is why I call them a ‘hate group’ and an emerging terrorist threat.
I’ve read the US Criminal Code and something does not sit right with me. Why did they charge Cosby with Sexual Assault instead of rape? Was there not enough evidence of the second?
Rape is a state, not a federal crime. Unless the victim is trafficked across state lines or the rape occurs on federal land like a national park. So the US criminal code doesn’t matter all that much. Different states just call it different things. In some states rape is called sexual assault. I’m not sure why. I’m guessing PA is just one of those states.
I know. It’s confusing and weird!
@WWTH
Wait, I thought the US Criminal Code applied at the federal level and had priority over state law? Or is that a mere confusion on my part? Also, how is rape a state crime even though it’s clearly defined as distinct from Sexual Assault?
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/920
EDIT: I don’t mean to criticize your line of thinking btw, it’s just the explanation doesn’t make a lick of sense. Why have a Criminal Code for the entire country if it can’t even be applied?
I think sexual assault is the legal term for various assaults of a sexual nature, rape being one of them.
And this brings race and racism into the equation of the IQ (Incel Question).
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/minority-report/201804/the-incel-movement
One thing I don’t get about the incel culture is why don’t they try and make friends with girl incels? Or do they? I honestly haven’t researched this phenomena, but maybe I should as it seems to be turning into a national crisis.
“My ‘meh, cry me a river’ attitude isn’t good enough but theirs about injustices I care about is just them being chill and ‘logically’ ‘unemotional’.”
If they are really bummed about male beauty standards (or whatever), then they should team up with women and fight male AND female beauty (or status/money) standards.
Feminism has been addressing these issues for decades. Holding men to higher status and money standards is a patriarchal construct. Why aren’t these dudes feminists?
I wouldn’t be surprised if they don’t believe female incels exist. Or if they do believe they exist they also believe that female incels deserve to be incels.
Am I the only one who thinks we shouldn’t call this “incel terrorism”? Wait wait wait, hear me out! What I mean is, I see this all as falling under the umbrella of far right terrorism, incels may as well be in the same category as mgtows, anti-feminists, and neo nazis, to me they are all just focused sects of the far right. They all share the same mentality, the same intolerance, the same entitlement, the same victim complex, et cetera. Far right terrorism doesn’t get labeled enough for what it is when it happens, we all know that, they are called “mentally disturbed” lone wolves with no connection to any ideology, more attention is paid to their positive traits, they are treated like victims themselves, it just doesn’t get the same reaction as when someone a few shades darker does the same crap. My point is, by calling this all out as “far right terrorism”, not only do I think it will further normalize the phrase, but singling out incels in particular seems to be exactly what they want us to do.
I’m gonna level with yall, I know how incels think, the only difference between me and them is a massive sense of entitlement. Well, that, and I’m not a virgin anymore, but I was until I was 28 and I still would be if I was anything like them. I was just able to accept responsibility for my failures rather than blaming everyone else, so I never became a hateful bitter manbaby, but I can still see where they’re coming from. Not that I’m saying that makes me sympathize with them, quite the opposite in fact. Because I understand them so well, that only makes me truly see what irredeemable garbage they really are.
Dave hit the nail on the head, they hate themselves and see their lives as hopeless, because that’s what they want it to be. If everything is hopeless, there’s no reason to try improving yourself or accepting any responsibility, it’s all society’s fault, it’s an excuse to do nothing about your problems because doing things is hard, and hating and blaming people is easy. They want to wallow in misery, that’s why I’m sure that if any of them somehow got a girlfriend and stopped being an incel, they would shun him as a “normie” and a “chad”, they would hate him for showing them that they aren’t stuck that way and they can improve themselves if they actually wanted to. They want to see themselves as victims, and they want validation for that, which is why they want people to feel sorry for them, or hate them, or fear them. It’s all validation, but more importantly, it’s attention. That’s why I think using the term “incel terrorism” is giving them what they want, which is attention, and an excuse to believe that we are all afraid of them and miserable now like they are.
I think it’s extremely important to make a case for why incel sites need to be shut down, as Dave did beautifully, but without letting them think we fear them, because that might just encourage more of them. Besides, this is bigger than just incels, all platforms for far right extremists that are responsible for radicalizing otherwise harmless idiots need to be shut down.
So that’s just my opinion on the term “incel terrorism”, but I may be wrong or overlooking things. If I am, please don’t be too hard on me.
The tension between state and federal jurisdiction can get a bit confusing.
When JFK was assassinated murder, even of the president, wasn’t a federal crime, so technically the FBI didn’t have jurisdiction. However conspiracy to murder a federal official in the execution of their duties was a federal offence. So, until it was definitively established that Oswald was acting alone, the FBI claimed a right to investigate.
Incels using their bad looks as an excuse, I see plenty of really unattractive guys who have gfs, bfs, wives, husbands, partners. Like, daily. They are completely wrong in their claim that only average to above average looking people manage to mate.
” And what a shocking happenstance, men are now starting to realize that rigid beauty standards are harmful. I mean, I don’t want men to experience these things anymore than I want women to, but I just have to ask. Where were men when this was solely a women’s issue? ”
Same with rape. Don’t wish it on anyone but until men experience it to the same extent women do, I don’t think the majority of them will really “get” what a huge issue it is, or dispense with their “false accusations” mythology, unfortunately.
Doc Thang, I don’t get the impression that the majority of incels are far right or even right. This all started back in the TFL True Forced Loneliness days and they never talked politics. Later some were lefties. Maybe nowadays a few have become righties. My impression was most weren’t political at all, like not invested enough in society to vote. In a way PUA, as far as it’s motivational speaking, self improvement, is better than this. At least it can get these guys off line and into interacting with other guys and sometimes women, maybe give them some purpose.
What would you do if you were a parent of some guy who just spent his time online all the time? If my kid refused to get a job and a life I would move house as soon as he turned 18 – into a studio apartment where he couldn’t stay, not even on the floor, like a 55+ place.
These kids need to get off their butts and get to work.
“Well, that, and I’m not a virgin anymore, but I was until I was 28 and I still would be if I was anything like them. I was just able to accept responsibility for my failures rather than blaming everyone else, so I never became a hateful bitter manbaby, but I can still see where they’re coming from.”
In most cultures sex before marriage is still shamed and you do meet many virgins in their 20s, even 30s if they haven’t married yet. The link just posted above addresses this relatively recent shift in American culture to shaming virgins. Not saying anyone should be shamed but there’s an acceptance/expectation of virginity till marriage, at least its understood.
If the federal government passes a law, then state governments have to comply. There are some things the federal government is going to want to standardize. Like financial regulations or medical privacy laws. But things that can be left up to state governments, are.
It does get pretty messy a lot of times to sort out jurisdiction, like Alan said. But the constitution requires the federal government to allow states a lot of power. I’m guessing if the founders had known that traveling across state lines would get fast and easy and information would travel digitally at very high speeds, they might not put the 10th amendment in. Because it does make a lot of things a hot ass mess.
I don’t blame you for thinking a lot of this stuff makes no sense. It’s confusing for Americans too and we’re accustomed to it.
@Dr. Thang
“Incel terrorism” is a short, specific, accurate and descriptive term for acts of terrorism perpetrated by members of the “involuntarily celibate” community. To name something doesn’t mean that we fear it. Neither does it give legitimacy to their claims and actions. I’d argue that it is when we are forced to circumlocute or to resort to euphemism that is the real show of fear.
Now, this news…
I googled “incel adoption” and this came up;
Adoption. : Incels – reddit.com
https://www.reddit.com/r/Incels/comments/6zavlm/adoption
I think we should adopt girls when they are still babies and teach them to treat chads the same way all women treat incels.
clicked on it and;
This community has been banned
This subreddit was banned due to a violation of our content policy, specifically, our sitewide rules regarding violent content.
Banned 5 months ago.
OK. PONDER THE THOUGHT OF THESE GUYS ADOPTING BABY GIRLS.
It’s been over five days since the incel on my asexuality forum has posted.
I find this cautiously hopeful.
Ah, see, there’s the kicker: They don’t actually give a shit.
They claim to give a shit about all these things, but they don’t want to get off their collective asses to actually do something about it (besides funneling money into their own pockets on occasion to make it seem like they’re doing something).
They just want feminists to do it. Which is a very basic tactic of the Misogynist’s Playbook: Make women do all your emotional labor, sit back and reap the benefits without giving anything in return. Because they think they’re lions and thus get to rule the pride and get the “lion’s share” that they didn’t work for, but don’t realize that the lionesses will gladly beat the shit out of the male lion if they step outta line.
Also this.
These dudes want every space and resource for themselves, because if we icky feeeemales get our collective mitts on it, it becomes tainted with DA COOTIES. They’ve designated a box for all their masculine stuff, and anything outside the box is unacceptable and anyone trying to get in the box who isn’t a man is also unacceptable. So, they just try to expand the box, and shove everyone else out just to make themselves feel good. (i.e. Men are “builders” and “DIYers”, whereas women are just “hobbyists” or “crafters”.)
Which is also why they get so prone to violent tantrums whenever women show any inclination towards their designated “masculine” hobbies like video games and comic books. “Go make your own stuff! This is OUR STUFF!” They shout, holed up in their treehouse with a “No Gurls ALLOWD” sign hung over the balcony.
So we shrug, go build our own treehouse, and then they get upset about that because they convinced themselves that we didn’t have the ability to do it ourselves. (Despite the fact that we actually happily welcome them into our space, provided they behave themselves.)
And then they claim that our treehouse is “fake” and since they don’t like it, it doesn’t deserve to exist, because all treehouses are made for men and boys, and us icky feeeemales don’t deserve a treehouse!
Ah, the great ouroboros of misogynist “logic”.