UPDATE: The CBC has confirmed with Facebook that Minassian’s post declaring himself an incel and hailing Elliot Rodger is real.
By David Futrelle
As I write this, it’s still not completely clear if Alek Minassian, the alleged driver of the van that killed ten pedestrians in Toronto yesterday in what appeared to be a very deliberate attack, is in fact a self-identified “involuntary celibate” trying to take revenge against the “Chads” and “Stacies” and other “normies” he blames for ruining his life — or if these reports are simply some sort of 4chan-style hoax.
But on the Incels.me forum, one of the more egregious hangouts for incels online, many are already hailing the alleged mass murderer as one of their own.
In an assortment of threads that popped up after the news media began to report on a supposed Facebook post from Minassian announcing that “the Incel Rebellion has … begun,” some of the Incels.me regulars are celebrating the killings and the alleged killer as “life fuel” for them and their nihilistic, misogynistic, misanthropic “movement.” (Click on the pics below to see the comments in context on Incels.me.)
Naturally, it didn’t take long for one of the regular commenters to adopt a picture of Minassian as his avatar.
But no one was quite so enthusiastic about the killings as the commenter calling himself BlkPillPres, who wondered if the killer had taken the advice he had given in a previous thread to use something other than guns in his “ER” — that is, Elliot Rodger-style — attack.
Many in the media and in politics are unwilling to label attacks driven by misogynistic ideology as terrorism — often declaring them to be simply the result of “mental illness,” as many did in the case of Elliot Rodger’s murders (ignoring his hundred page manifesto), and as the authorities are already doing in the Toronto attacks.
But misogyny is not mental illness; it’s hate. And what BlkPillPres is talking about here is essentially the dictionary definition of terrorism — “[t]he unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.” The tactics he suggests are an explicit attempt to subject “normies” to “constant fear” — that is, terror — in all areas of their lives, in order to advance BlkPillPres’ goal of “black pilling” the world and intimidating those who criticize incels into silence.
Following his link back to the older thread, one quickly discovers that it is even more disturbing. In it, BlkPillPres sets out what he sees as the virtues of various terroristic strategies, from acid attacks to mass rape to vehicle attacks like the one we saw yesterday. (If you are feeling at all fragile you may wish to stop reading this post right here.)
Others in the thread suggests that this all sounds great to them, with one aiming some of his ire at the IncelTears subreddit, which is devoted to criticizing Incels on Reddit and elsewhere.
Other commenters offer their own even more horrifying ideas.
Like Ub2w, BlkPillPres is especially taken with the acid-in-the-face tactic.
“Kek.”
Sadly, as someone who has been writing about incels for several years now, none of this is surprising. Disturbing, yes, but not surprising. Incel is a hate movement, and it is long past time for it to be treated as such.
NOTE: The reaction amongst Reddit incels has been more measured; I may delve into that in a future post.
lau, but:
@AJ, you’re welcome. We all need a cat game now and again.
@WWTH
I dated a guy who thought this about himself because his mom always told him that. 🙁 🙁 No amount of insistence from me that I really did find his eyes beautiful would convince him, and he wore colored contacts to hide them.
… Maybe I just have an odd diet, but I’ve had poop of many different hues. “Eyes the colour of poop” gives me no idea what color those eyes are. I mean, some shade of brown, I would assume (or maybe hazel?). It sucks that people with brown eyes seem to get the short end of the stick when it comes to romantic comparisons of them, though. Brown eyes are beautiful.
Re: mental illness, about the only factor anything remotey similar to it played in this attack would be the sociopathy/psychopathy required to actually pull it off.
@Catalpa
In the case of the guy I’m talking about, they were brown.
I saw this in The Independent (UK newspaper)
I don’t feel that adequately explains it but wondered what you folks thought?
Sorry, I completely missed off the first bit and then I missed the edit window
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/toronto-crash-latest-canada-attack-attack-alek-minassian-van-a8320631.html
I see these incels as entitled losers.
They are a very sick bunch. I
The internet makes it easier than ever before to radicalize people like this. Never before has it been so easy to find and consume so many bad ideas.
When I read about these kinds of stories, I can’t help but think about lines like this from Kurt Vonnegut’s ‘Breakfast of Champions’:
“As has already been said: Dwayne was a Pontiac dealer who was going insane.
“Dwayne’s incipient insanity was mainly a matter of bad chemicals, of course. Dwayne Hoover’s body was manufacturing certain chemicals which unbalanced his mind. But Dwayne, like all novice lunatics, needed some bad ideas, too, so that his craziness could have shape and direction.
“Bad chemicals and bad ideas were the Yin and Yang of madness.
“The bad ideas were delivered to Dwayne by Kilgore Trout. Trout considered himself not only harmless but invisible. The world had paid so little attention to him that he supposed he was dead.
“But he learned from his enocunter with Dwayne that he was alive enough to give a fellow human being ideas which would turn him into a monster.
“Here was the core of the bad ideas which Trout gave to Dwayne: Everybody on earth was a robot, with one exception – Dwayne Hoover.
“Of all the creatures in the Universe, only Dwayne was thinking and feeling and worrying and planning and so on. Nobody else knew what pain was. Nobody else had any choices to make. Everybody else was a fully automatic machine, whose purpose was to stimulate Dwayne. Dwayne was a new type of creature being tested by the Creator of the Universe.
“Only Dwayne had free will.
“Trout did not expect to be believed. He put the bad ideas in a science-fiction novel, and that was where Dwayne found them….
“It shook up Trout to realize that even he could bring evil into the world – in the form of bad ideas. And, after Dwayne was carted off to a lunatic asylum in a canvas camisole, Trout became a fanatic on the importance of ideas as causes and cures for diseases.
“But nobody would listen to him. He was a dirty old man in the wilderness, crying out among the trees and underbrush, “Ideas or the lack of them can cause disease.”
@Starfury
It’s practically advocating their stance.
Thanks, I couldn’t quite put my finger on why it bothered me so much, like they were downplaying it and giving a misleading account. I am really tired though
@Shadowplay, thanks. I’m not on Twitter very often, because Nazis, ugh. And trolls, ugh. But I’ll try and follow back.
Also, brown eyes, the “color of poop”? Uh, I have brown eyes. They’re beautiful. I can wear any eyeshadow color and not worry about it clashing. I love them. I’m proud of them. I call them the color of tea. Or Baltic amber. Or tigereyes. Or a forest pool with autumn leaves in it. Anything BUT poop, in other words.
Self-esteem: these guys no haz it.
The Guardian actually has a relatively decent article making the link to incels: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/apr/24/toronto-van-attack-facebook-post-may-link-suspect-with-incel-group
It doesn’t adequately express how horrific incels are (for instance it doesn’t mention the canonization of Elliott Rodger), but it’s still a MSM outlet talking about it.
Likewise, credit where credit is due, the Star has a front page article sorta kinda vaguely making the “Don’t blame mental illness” point. It doesn’t do a very good job of it, but it’s more than I expected. https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/04/24/autism-not-associated-with-violence-advocates-say.html
What made them leap to Mental Illness? Does he have a preexisting condition on record?
@F is for Fro
Nah. It’s just an easy broom to pick up and sweep things away with.
I am SO TIRED of these pathetic creeps whinging on the internet about how “oppressed” they think they are. Ha, these fat, lazy spoiled sacks of s*** wouldn’t know oppression if it walked up to them and cut their dicks off.
I have more sympathy for a member of ISIS than I do for these entitled pricks!
(Apologies for the negative energy. I’ve just had enough of this idiocy and wish something could be done about it.)
Hi. I’ve just discovered this website. Is there a place for general discussion here? Or a getting-to-know you place?
@Lillith
There are open threads, sometimes. But mostly you can just jump right on in on the most recent threads.
Edit- ah, ninja’d
R,
I get the anger, and hate on incels as much as you like. But please don’t equate being fat with laziness or misogyny. It’s not about how incels look. They look like average normal guys. All shapes and sizes. The problem is their repugnant personalities.
Lillith,
Welcome! There aren’t specific threads for newcomers or anything. But most regulars keep up with all the active threads. So feel free to jump right in.
Hi Lillith! Usually the open threads are good for that sort of thing (though most thread go general by the end of page two 😛 )
Ah – multi-ninja’d! 😛
@R
Same type of people. The grunts in ISIS I mean, not the ones directing. Not a hair’s breadth of difference – destruction of a target for the pleasure of it and nothing more. The nature of the target is pretty much irrelevant, as long as they can self justify.
wait, is there a new “pill” I didn’t know about? I’m familiar with the blue and red, of course, but what’s this “black pill”?
also, what’s this nonsense about feeling SAFE because killings are being done with GUNS? gun violence is fucking TERRIFYING. I don’t think I’d feel particularly less safe worrying about a rando trying to run me over with a van when I already worry about randos pulling out guns and shooting places up.
and as always when incels come up I remember that post that talked about how they believe someone trying to help an incel (with therapy, meds, etc) is a capital crime. they didn’t even argue it would be ineffective, just that it shouldn’t be done. like… what? I don’t even know what to say at that point.
it’s definitely terrorism, I think, but what’s weird is both their means AND their ends are terror. terror is both the method and the goal, since it doesn’t seem like they’re trying to get “normies” to actually DO anything, they just want to punish them for living lives that they believe are beyond their grasps.
Brian,
The black pill has been around for awhile. I think (although I could be wrong) that it was coined by a manosphere blogger who used to go by “Omega virgin revolt.” I think it just means that if you’re an omega male – lower even than a beta – you should be a misogynist because your unhappiness is the fault of horrible women who won’t let you sex them. It’s like the misogyny of red pill but without the pretending like you’re a crossfitter lifter who’s totes spinning multiple HB10 plates.
(waves hi to Lilith)
Pull up a chair and your beverage of choice, yo. Once in a while, David will post an open thread where people can just talk at random amongst themselves. Otherwise, the best thing to do is just discuss whatever topic you’re on. We don’t bite (unless you’re a troll, in which case some might use you for a chew toy.)
Welcome, and please enjoy your stay!
* * *
Back to topic: someone archived a copy of Minassian’s Facebook profile before it was taken down. Brrrr, it’s barren in there. And cold. But he does appear to use actual military jargon in there, too.
@Talonknife
Not to start a fight, but I think we need to stop using personality disorders as a shorthand way of saying “this person is a jerk and I don’t like them”. Especially on the internet.
I just don’t get incels. What are they so bitter about? Why would dating and having sex solve any of their problems in life? Have these guys just never seen a real life relationship with all it’s ups and downs, or do they think that RL girlfriends are drama free? Because given how self-absorbed these guys are, they most likely would just be miserable in a relationship (or in bed) anyway.
Nice find Bina!
Asked to leave after 16 days training … that’s interesting.
It usually means either incapable of reaching standard in an acceptable period of time, or a previously un-noticed physical or mental problem which will likely be made worse by further training. It very rarely (read almost never, unless the CO is incompetent) means disciplinary problems – those get you thrown out, not asked to leave.
It’s usually the previously un-noticed problem though, and there is zero shame/judgement attached to it. There’s a lot of problems (sorry, I’m not calling them disabilities in this case, because a lot of them are not in normal life) which are harmless that preclude military life, and the recruit is advised of this before they waste their time further.