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Sex is like making an apple pie in which the man does all the work and the woman just opens her oven, dude who clearly never has sex explains

Women are picky about the “apple pies” they “eat,” if you know what I mean

By David Futrelle

In the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit, yet another man with what appears to be a merely theoretical understanding of the subject has decided that he needs to explain sex to us all.

Be warned: He uses … metaphor.

It’s not pretty.

Here’s the whole text if you don’t want to squint to read that:

The Rigged Exchange (self.MGTOW)

submitted 7 months ago by slyn69
when you boil male female relationships down to their most basic exchange, the man provides resources and utility and the woman provides access to sex. already, this is a completely unfair exchange when you realize that women actually enjoy and crave sex as much as men, if not more-so. on top of that, it is the expectation on the man to perform sexually, pleasure his woman and bring her to orgasm multiple times.

its like, if u and a woman were making an apple pie together. your job would be to grow the apples, pluck them. plant the wheat, grind it into flour. mead the dough. add the sugar. turn it into a pie. then u bring your pie around to all the women u know hoping one of them will open her oven for you. she doesnt even turn the oven on, thats still your job. then, after the pie is done cooking, u have to feed it to her.

Er, “mead the dough?”

I’m not sure this guy is much of a baker, if you catch my drift.

I’ll leave it to the rest of you to tease out all the implications of the rest of this metaphor because I’m a having a little trouble trying to figure out what, sex-wise, each of the pie-making steps he mentions actually refer to.

The oven is the vagina, right? Is the pie the penis? Because I’m pretty sure you don’t bake pies by repeatedly putting them in and pulling them out of the oven.

And if we ignore this little metaphorical oddity and accept that putting the pie in the oven is penis-in-vagina fun time, then why does the guy have to feed her the pie afterwards? What if she wants to, er, eat it beforehand? Or maybe just use her hand? What if he wants to eat her pie or, I dunno, put his finger in it? If her pie, in this metaphor, is actually the oven, dude should probably wear oven mitts, right? Do they make those for tongues?

I have so many questions.

I suspect this guy will be “meading” his own dough for a while, if you know what I mean, wink wink nudge nudge.

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PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
3 years ago

Ah, The Rigged Exchange uses the old Little Red Hen” analogy, and ends up enjoying his bread all alone.

Patty Thinkerer
Patty Thinkerer
3 years ago

My brain hurts from reading that, from trying to take this apart and turn it into something coherent. This guy clearly never baked before, either.

Or maybe he saw a female relative bake a pie once, and thought it was super easy to do. IDK.

Patty Thinkerer
Patty Thinkerer
3 years ago

Aww, missed the edit window!

Anyway, “Mead the dough” sounds like a bawdy song.

Dan Kasteray
Dan Kasteray
3 years ago

I echo other sentiments. He knows as much about baking and sex as he does quantum physics

Shadowplay
3 years ago

Or maybe he saw a female relative bake a pie once, and thought it was super easy to do.

Mispistory!!!! 😛

Though I’ve never understood why people think baking is hard.

Mexican Hot Chocolate
Mexican Hot Chocolate
3 years ago

The gentleman is experienced in neither in matters of sex nor pie. His grasp of written English is also somewhat questionable.

BoBali
BoBali
3 years ago

If all you see women as being “good for” is for providing a place to put a penis, then I suppose it might seem like that’s what relationships with one come down to.

Blech. They’re so incredibly insipid, really.

Moggie
Moggie
3 years ago

This sounds like a lot of work. Why doesn’t he just get apple pie at McDonalds?

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ moggie

Why doesn’t he just get apple pie at McDonalds?

Because they won’t be cool enough to eat until ten minutes after the heat death of the universe. They’re like sugary lava.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
3 years ago

If this “metaphor” refers to P.i.V. sex, well, I never thought it took all that much “work” to get the “pie” ready for the “oven”….

Maybe it’s just me….

Weatherwax
Weatherwax
3 years ago

I don’t know, I rather like the idea of “meading the dough”. Fermented honey is definitely something that could improve apple pie.

Also does my vagina have variable temperature settings? How did that get missed in my biology classes at school? The quality of sexual education… Sheesh.

ETA Although it’s only now dawned on me that dough doesn’t feature in an apple pie recipe. He’s thinking of bread. I must be tired. *facepalm*

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
3 years ago

@ Weatherwax;

Also does my vagina have variable temperature settings?

… there are soooooo many inappropriate jokes from my factory worker days….

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

I love how mad MGTOWs are about relationship models that aren’t even that common. I don’t know anyone who has ever been in a relationship in which the man always pays for dates and all the dates are lavish, only the man gives gifts on holidays, and all the woman does is look pretty. I’m sure there are relationships out there like this. But I’ve never seen it. Yet every MGTOW seems to think this is how relationships work. My only explanation is that it is still pretty common for the man to pay on the first date or two. I wonder if these guys have never gotten past a first date because they’re so unpleasant to be around and they just assume the entirety of relationships are like an awkward first date but with more sex.

At least this one seems to realize that women (in general) actually do like sex. That’s progress!

Fluffy Spider
Fluffy Spider
3 years ago

They’ve managed to kill my craving for some apple pie. I think I’ll have a cupcake now instead

MrsObedMarsh
MrsObedMarsh
3 years ago

@WWTH:

The “women are all gold-diggers” meme always boggles my mind because I’ve never known a woman who was like that. Not a single one. Maybe I’ve met a gold-digger, but I’ve never gotten to know one, not even as an acquaintance. What I have known are a ton of women who bust their asses to be successful on their own merits.

iknklast
iknklast
3 years ago

The way I read this was that the apple pie metaphor wasn’t so much about sex, at least until she “opens her oven”. I think he’s talking about all the work, the slaving, etc, you know, killing the mammoth and so forth, to take care of the woman who sits watching TV and dreaming about Chad all day while he goes out to his super-brainy STEM job, works 37 hours a day, brings in a super paycheck that she spends in one place, probably on shoes and lipstick, and then, only then, once he’s worked to bring her these goodies, she might permit him to have sex with her.

I’m not sure about the feeding her afterwards, though I suspect that might refer to all the horrible child support checks he has to send for that little brat he didn’t want and she tricked him into having when he just wanted some fun.

It’s just the same tired old economic theory of sexual relations, with a sugary coating.

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
3 years ago

That metaphor is half baked.

kupo
kupo
3 years ago

Now I want to try adding mead to my pie dough.

Dr. Thang
Dr. Thang
3 years ago

@MrsObedMarsh

That was exactly what I was thinking about while reading this! I’m used to mgtows being virgins who have no idea how sex works and using poorly realized metaphors that prove it, so that’s nothing new. But the whole 50s mindset that all men do all the work and all women just leech off them and provide nothing but sex, is that like, ever true? I mean, does anyone ever see that anymore? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a relationship like that in my life, I can’t think of one where both partners didn’t have a job. Hell, my sister makes more than her husband. How are these failures so blind to the reality that is happening all around them? Do they just never leave their mom’s basements?
Btw, I just noticed your awesome name! I’m a huge Lovecraft fan.

Gaebolga
Gaebolga
3 years ago

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie wrote:

If this “metaphor” refers to P.i.V. sex, well, I never thought it took all that much “work” to get the “pie” ready for the “oven”….

Yeah, but you’re not an MRA.

It must be really difficult to get the “pie” ready when you hate the “oven” with the fire of a thousand suns…

Gaebolga
Gaebolga
3 years ago

Re: Gold diggers

I’m sure they do exist – after all, greedy assholery knows no gender – but they’ve got to be a really small percentage of women.

Probably comparable to the percentage of gold-digging men, who somehow get conveniently left out of the whole “gold digger” narrative.

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
3 years ago

@Shadowplay

Though I’ve never understood why people think baking is hard.

Not all baking is hard, but pastry can be, especially for people who don’t have cold hands (warm hands melt the butter too much when you’re mixing it into the flour). And there’s the fact is a precision sort of cooking, in that things can get ruined really fast.

ETA: Which I suppose makes the metaphor even worse. I mean, I’m sure there are some women who like cold hands meading their dough, but I don’t think they’re in the majority.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
3 years ago

What kills me is the way they blame the basic tasks of daily living on women. If women disappeared from the earth tomorrow, there would still be jobs. There would still be wars and people dying in coal mines. There would still be the need to earn money and wipe butts.

None of this is foreplay. It’s basic adulting.

Part of me thinks they deliberately bat around these ridiculous metaphors in order to justify their failures. If sex is a bakery, but also a wolfpack, but also the stock market, then clearly it’s an illogical waste of time for them to engage in something so alien and nonsensical. (These are the same sort of dudes who mysteriously can’t grasp how to do laundry because it’s just too complicated.) Anything can be made to seem overblown and ridiculous and too much effort, if you go far back enough in time and add up all the labor that got you to that point.

calmdown
calmdown
3 years ago

Why choose a metaphor about something that you don’t understand to explain another thing you don’t understand? Then you just look like you know nothing about two subjects. Why not use something you actually have expertise in? (Although what that would be for a MGTOW I have no idea, sex = reddit gold or something?) Maybe they just can’t do anything besides be terrible.

Btw I simplified the recipe for anyone who wants to bake this at home: homegrown apples + hand milled flour + mead + sugar + ???? = pie.

Tovius
Tovius
3 years ago

It’s mind blowing how out of step with reality they are. I’m almost scared to ask what they would think of stay at home dads.

Fruitloopsie
Fruitloopsie
3 years ago

Well at least he acknowledges women like sex and have orgasms unlike so many other manospherians.

If he got a woman pregnant did he put a bun in the oven?
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/014/959/Screenshot_116.png

Also on gold diggers so many manospherians especially the red pillers are afraid of women who could be gold diggers while a lot if not most of them are gold diggers themselves but I call them “suckers” they suck all the money and life out of you, manipulate and abuse you then turn around and brag how ‘nice’ they are and its all part of ‘biology’ or something.

solecism
solecism
3 years ago

@OP

its like, if u and a woman were making an apple pie together. your job would be to grow the apples, pluck them. plant the wheat, grind it into flour. mead the dough. add the sugar. turn it into a pie.”

Left out an awful lot here and started at woefully the wrong place. Because we all grow our own basic ingredients, dontcha know. As opposed to going to the store (or farmers market!) to buy the fixins and then proceeding from there.

But let’s run with it. He forgot about raising and slaughtering pigs and rendering the lard, or alternatively, keeping a dairy herd, milking the cows and churning the butter. Not to mention a years-long trek along the international trade routes to get the cinnamon, cloves and ginger for the traditional apple pie spice blend. And how about that sugar? Where’s that sourced from?

Woulda been a little simpler if he’d gone for peach pie–just shake that tree a little, and collect the harvest, eh?

And meading, ahem, kneading the dough–is that a reference to getting her so drunk she can’t participate/consent to sex? And if one were to knead the dough, it would get pretty tough and not make for good pastry crust. But I suppose that would be her fault too.

@Gaebolga

It must be really difficult to get the “pie” ready when you hate the “oven” with the fire of a thousand suns…

Well, that’s one way to bake a pie. I suspect it results in setting off the smoke alarm, opening the windows, and pulling an inedible disaster out. That sums up misogyny-sex pretty well.

And think about that metaphor translated into more directly sexual terms. It’s like having sex with a woman requires accessories. First The Man must work in a lab to develop safe lubes. And become a Captain of Industry to manufacture sex toys. And then a biologist and pharmaceutical researcher to unravel the mysteries of reproduction and contraception. And a sociologist conducting studies to determine the nature of attraction and arousal triggers. All that before messing around on a date. So much work to aspire to a single orgasm, woe is me! Sounds ridiculous.

This guy really shows no grasp of human society, relationships, agriculture, or baking. Or sex.

NicolaLuna
NicolaLuna
3 years ago

Why doesn’t he just get apple pie at McDonalds?

Because they won’t be cool enough to eat until ten minutes after the heat death of the universe. They’re like sugary lava.

When I found out McDonald’s apple pies are vegan I screeched with excitement because I’d missed them. Went out to get one and immediately burned myself. Was still worth it though.

As for the strange meaded pie guy… nobody wants your horrible, bitter pie. Are you sure it’s apples? It tastes more like grapes. Sour ones.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ nicolaluna

Quick query if I may, what do you do for vitamin B12? Currently I’m having to force down a litre of soy milk each day, but presumably there’s an alternative. I’m not one for tablets though (bad berocca experience).

Otrame
Otrame
3 years ago

@Alan Robertshaw.

They make gummy vitamins these days. And they explicitly make B12 gummy. Grocery stories. They taste fruity.

The Real Cie
3 years ago

“its like, if u and a woman were making an apple pie together. your job would be to grow the apples, pluck them. plant the wheat, grind it into flour. mead the dough. add the sugar. turn it into a pie. ”

Mr. MGTOW, it’s nobody’s fault but your own that you didn’t delegate any of these pie-making tasks to someone else.

I sometimes make beer pancakes. Is that how you mead the dough?

The Real Cie
3 years ago

@Alan Robertshaw

Doctors can also prescribe B-12 injections. This isn’t as horrible as it sounds. It’s a subcutaneous injection. The needles are very small. As an insulin dependent diabetic, I can attest that subcutaneous injections really don’t hurt that much. Most of the time I hardly feel them.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
3 years ago

seconding the injection suggestion, @Alan. B-vitamins (and others) can be difficult to metabolize orally. The injections, on the other hand, can last a long time between them apparently!

Paradoxical Intention: Resident Cheeseburger Slut

I can very much attest to the glory of gummy vitamins. Makes it so much easier to take them. I take a gummy multivitamin, and it’s actually done wonders for my woefully thin fingernails.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants | April 12, 2018 at 3:39 pm
What kills me is the way they blame the basic tasks of daily living on women. If women disappeared from the earth tomorrow, there would still be jobs. There would still be wars and people dying in coal mines. There would still be the need to earn money and wipe butts.

None of this is foreplay. It’s basic adulting.

But their entire lives revolve around sex and the acquisition or lack thereof. So, every little thing they do has to be related to sex with the feeeeemales.

Like how Roosh complains that wiping his ass is “grooming like a cat” to get laid, rather than something that hygienic adults fucking do so they don’t have itchy buttholes and smell like a diaper bin.

Their obsexsion (lol) is just strings and pins connecting photos on a massive fucking wall of jumbled horseshit, and getting their dicks wet is at the center of it all. That’s the goal. That’s the whole fucking shebang (lol) for these dudes.
comment image

Everything they do is somehow connected to sex because reasons. It can’t be that there’s more to life than sex, because that would mean they’d have to admit that they’ve, sadly, got nothing else to look forward to in life.

It’s actually quite depressing when you think about it, stupid puns aside.

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
3 years ago

Well, soaking the apples in the mead might be pretty tasty . . .

One of my cousins makes pie crust with vodka. Apparently you can use more liquid this way because the vodka will evaporate?

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

Thanks for the B12 recommendations everybody. Whilst I have no aversion to needles (I’m a lot of phlebotomists ‘first time’ because I don’t mind) I think I’ll go with the gummi bears.

It’s funny about supplements. Roman gladiators, who were vegetarians, had the nickname ‘ash eaters’ because they drank a sort of sports drink made out of ash and vinegar, which apparently made up for some deficiencies in their diet.

(But how did they know!)

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
3 years ago

@Alan:

Clearly, because they were the ultimate Manly Men, and having run out of mammoths to hunt, they invented the sports drink for us. They just knew, because they were just that alpha.

Catalpa
Catalpa
3 years ago

I’m going to assume he meant “knead”, not “mead”, and scream NO! The last thing you want to do with pie crust is knead it! You’re going to melt all the butter into the crust and develop more gluten strands, which is going to make for a horrible tough crust. You need to touch pie crust as little as possible to get something light and flakey.

Why in heaven’s name would you attempt to craft a metaphor by likening a situation to another that you have absolutely no idea about?

Ah, that’s right. Men created society and by extension baking, and since the would-be metaphor crafter is ALSO a man, that means he knows absolutely everything, naturally having access to the communal ancestral knowledge pool available to men and men alone.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
3 years ago

Wow, so, like, MRAs are born already knowing what their ancestors knew, like some kind of genetic memory? I never knew that. But … it sounds familiar somehow, nonetheless …

OMG, the MRAs are … Goa’uld! Someone needs to warn Stargate Command. 🙂

brian
brian
3 years ago

okay, I know meading the dough sounds like the hardest task here, but personally my least favorite part of making a pie is plucking all the apples. it’s like apple feathers are glued in! such a pain to get out…

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

I dunno, guy. Multiple orgasms? Every time? Like, I doubt she’d complain (about the orgasms, she’d definitely complain about your bullshit, even assuming you got that far), but that’s setting a pretty high bar for yourself, ya know? Plenty of women don’t experience orgasm with their (usually male) partner(s). Not gonna speak for women here, not my place, but I’m thinking you’re setting yourself up for failure on a test nobody but you is actually administering
.
.
.
What’s that? This is all just a dig at women painting them as demanding and impossible to please in the same way these people do with every other aspect of life? Oh… Nevermind then…

NateHevens
3 years ago

Hold on. Wait.

Wait wait wait.

Do these d00ds think all women engage in financial domination?

They know that’s a fetish… right?

Do… do they have that fetish?

—————————————————————————————

As for baking… I mean… it is (or at least should be treated as) a pretty exact science. I actually hate baking recipes that don’t include ounces and grams for dry ingredients (I will never be able to make your pie dough as good as you if you tell me to use 2 cups of flour… that can be several different weights depending on how you measure it out, so just give me the ounces and grams). That’s one of the thousands of reasons I love Serious Eats, especially Stella Parks and J. Kenji Lopez-Alt. They include volume measurements, ounces, and grams in all their recipes, and I love that so much.

But even then, baking isn’t that hard at all. Does he really think it is?

Rabid Rabbit
Rabid Rabbit
3 years ago

Well, it’s harder than making a sandwich, and apparently that’s beyond the abilities of Manly Men, so…

NateHevens
3 years ago

@Rapid Rabbit…

Oh right. I forgot about that. But then, I never tried to be a Manly Man. I just try to do shit I enjoy… and cooking and baking are two of those things…

I made blueberry quickbread and also (separately) challah today. I might make more challah tomorrow… or maybe some dinner rolls… I love making bread, especially since getting a bread machine.

I really need to start making my way through these cupcake recipes. I have my eye on a chocolate Irish cream cupcake recipe… the frosting is supposed to be pretty alcoholic, and I like the sound of that…

Bina
3 years ago

I don’t know where this guy gets his pies, but I do know one thing: I don’t want him anywhere near mine.

Shadowplay
3 years ago

@Nate

Challah recipe, please! Never found a decent one and I LOVE that stuff. Every time I go to Haifa, I binge like crazy on it.

occasional reader
occasional reader
3 years ago

Hmm, does he often clean an oven with his tongue ?

NateHevens
3 years ago

@Shadowplay

It’s called Cool Cats Challah. (Hmm… I could have sworn I uploaded the recipe to Tablespoon several years ago… but it’s not there anymore…)

Keep in mind that I use a breadmaker, so the ingredients are listed in the order you’d put them in said breadmaker. You’ll have to do some adjusting if you don’t, but it should be easy. Also, when you measure out the bread flour (King Arthur’s the best) and sugar, make sure you spoon them into the measuring cups and level off with the flat side of a knife. I also use the King Arthur website to get weights

1 cup warm water (not much over room temperature)
2 large eggs
0.5 cup canola or vegetable oil
2 tsps salt
0.25 to 0.5 cup (49.5 to 99 grams) sugar (depends on how sweet you want it)
4 cups (480 grams) bread flour
3 tsps breadmachine yeast

(All ingredients should be room temperature. This sadly isn’t optional.)

1. Put all ingredients in breadmaker in given order. Set to dough cycle and let it do its thing.

2. When dough cycle is finished, remove dough from pan, oil a bowl, put dough in bowl, punch it down, cover in plastic wrap, and let rise in warm place for an hour (our oven has a “proof” setting which works wonders, here). You could also let it rise overnight in the fridge if you want.

3. When the hour (or overnight) is up, take the dough, punch it down, and split it up. You can get one to two loaves out of this, depending on how big you want them, or plenty of little rolls. Regardless of how you do it, split the dough and shape the loaves or rolls (I actually attempted a 9-braid once… and was surprised to have succeeded! Haven’t tried it again, though…).

4. Place shaped dough on pans, loosely cover with plastic, place back in warm place, and let rise again for up to an hour, but at the 30-minute mark, check every 5 minutes. They may be done rising before this hour is up.

(Including the dough cycle in the breadmaker, this makes 3 rises.)

5. Heat oven to 350 degrees Fahrenheit. While it’s heating, brush (or spray?) dough with egg wash.

6. When the oven is heated, cook bread for 20 to 25 minutes, until golden brown (tent with aluminum foil if they brown too quickly).

Enjoy!

BTW… I do have a version that doesn’t use a breadmaker, but it uses quite a bit more flour so yields a lot more bread. Let me know if you want that!

feministguy
feministguy
3 years ago

Again, dont talk about something you know nothing about, you will come across like an idiot. Dont talk about sex if you have never had it. I mean god damn it. And porn isnt real too.

There are plenty of things that men who are unsuccesfull at dating are good at, why dont they talk about those things instead.

Shadowplay
3 years ago

@Nate

Thank you! Your recipe uses less sugar and more oil than the ones I tried. Same amount of salt – so it should be very close to the one I miss a lot!

Nearest daughter has a breadmaker, so I’ll give it a whirl in that tonight (I’m kid sitting – daughter and son in law are going to see Rampage for their date night).

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