By David Futrelle
In the Men’s Rights subreddit, the regulars only discuss the most important issues affecting men. Prostate cancer. Circumcision. When scientists will get around to developing some new technology that will render women obsolete — or that will at the very least make women feel really bad about themselves.
In one (sort of) recent discussion of the Obsolete Women Question on r/mensrights, one gay MRA called Eryemil, a real out-of-the-box thinker, suggests that it won’t take anything as fancy as a sexbots or artificial wombs to make women unnecessary. All that straight MRAs really need to do is to start having sex, not with women, but with each other.
There’s just one little roadblock: straight men generally don’t want to have sex with each other. But maybe science will find an answer!
All we have to do to completely take away women’s social power over men is to discover a means to allow men the choice to become bisexual.
Like, I guess, a Gay Pill, or some sort of Gayifying Machine?
At the moment women couldn’t hope to compete with men in terms of sexual desire and common interests; the only thing that gives them so much power is that straight men have no other choice.
Actually, there are lots of men who think of themselves as straight who have sex with men. But never mind.
The most beautiful thing about this is that I don’t think this would work in reverse (making women bisexual, if they aren’t already) because of women’s evolutionary derived meta values i.e. hypergamy.
So a Gayifying Machine won’t work on women because they love sweet, sweet man cash too much — and their fellow women don’t have enough bucks to make them worthwhile hosts to latch onto? Well, at least this is an acknowledgement that men tend to make a lot more money than women.
Even if only a minority decides to go through with it, it will leave heterosexual males with an elevated sexual market value by virtue of their relative scarcity. You’d have a society of hetero men with harems of women eager to please him (and probably making all the babies) and a bunch of bros hanging out with their buddies playing video games and sucking each other off.
Damn. If scientists can pull this off — er, maybe that’s not the ideal phrase to use in this context — it sounds like women are DOOOMED.
I read that last sentence differently than others did. With the talk of MGTOWs boning each other, I took “turn on each other” to mean “arouse” rather than “betray.” I thought it was an amusing misreading you all might enjoy.
@TreePerson:
There are shades of “peak oil” in the TERF/”gender-critical” buzzphrase “peak trans.”
From what I can tell from my ventures into TERFy blogs and suchlike (before reaching for the mind bleach), the idea is that people hit “peak trans” when encountering some supposedly especially egregious example of The Nefariousness/Obnoxiousness/SpecialSnowflakiness/WhateverElseTheyAccuse TransPeopleOfBeingness of trans people, whereupon their eyes are opened to the true awfulness of trans people and the notion of rights for them, and/or their last patience with trans people and their audacity to exist runs out.
So, an example usage might be “yesterday I hit peak trans when someone told me they actually identify as both genders – can you imagine?!” or “politicians pushing these bathroom rights on schools will lead to many more people hitting peak trans and joining our side.”
Of course, this use relies on gross misunderstandings of both transness and the term “peak oil,” but then whaddaya expect. Ugh.
@Surplus and Opposablethumbs:
Some time ago I mentioned that a group of scientists managed to create a mouse that had two biological mums. They took the core of one egg and inserted it into another egg and made a mouse baby that way. Although they tried it hundreds of time to get one single success. So seems like we’re a really long way off from being able to do it reliably, but it has been done.
Also, I’ll bite at Feministguy’s question.
I think sexual orientation depends both on genes and the environment. Why? Well, pretty much everything does. This does not mean that you can prevent people from becoming gay by having laws and a moral system that forbids it, that much is very obvious. And it doesn’t mean that you could change someone’s orientation through therapy either. Like, we know that height depends on both genes and environment, but that doesn’t imply that you, to any extent at all, choose how tall you want to be, or can affect your height through therapy.
The whole thing is probably super complicated… We know of cultures, like ancient Greece, where men having sex with other men was the norm, and we have no sources telling us that most men doing this disliked it or had to force themselves to do it because they were actually straight. So it doesn’t seem like a majority of humans are genetically hardwired into being straight and straight only. But we also know that you can’t make gay and bi people disappear by forbidding sex with the same gender.
Besides that I’d say we really don’t know much at all… But it’s a fair guess that genes and environment both play some kind of part in it.
@ Dvärghundspossen
… that much is certain!
way off topic… interesting piece from Slate about white supremacists
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/04/our-failure-to-understand-white-power-as-a-broader-social-movement-has-prevented-us-from-combating-it.html
(emphasis mine)
This is an example of “so old it’s new again.” I recall a misogynistic samurai from like the 1600s or so who said something similar – women are terrible and shallow and their love inferior to men’s, so men should just be with other men.
Because of course they do. Bi people don’t exist, silly! /s
This idea is rooted in such textbook bi-phobia.
Dvärghundspossen:
From Wikipedia:
Perfect analogy for sexual conversion therapy!
Oh, no. You attract mansplainers!
I’m really not feeling particularly well today. Slow head-shaking is about as much physical effort as I can manage.
Needless to say, this story absolutely fits my mood …..
I’ve called on journalists/sociologists to take a crack at 4chan as a social phenomenon, but I think the concept of “hypergamy” as bandied about by these dipshits is worth a look as well. Because I’d really like to know where it originates.
I mean, the trope of “gold digger”–terrible as it is–at least has one or two prominent examples in modern-day pop culture (Anna Nicole Smith leaping to mind), but given both the historical background of women being almost traded between wealthy families for financial reasons, plus the lack of social mobility for women in poverty didn’t give women much choice in these matters.
But really, outside of the true crime documentaries I watch (which basically profile people who will marry into wealth and bump off their spouses their spouses for financial gain regardless of gender), does this actually exist outside of a handful of crappy works of fiction? Because it strikes me as a reassuring fiction these people tell themselves to spare their egos from realizing they’re actually toxic in relationships (as many of their tropes seem to be).
@Weird Eddie
Interesting article, but I think the format didn’t give it room to really open up. I didn’t get much from it that I didn’t know already from my knowledge of that era; I’m still convinced that the term “stochastic terrorism” needs to be used more prominently in the zeitgeist when talking about these acts of terror committed by erstwhile “lone wolf” shooters.
I was watching Kevin Logan’s YouTube stream last night where he did a game of “Who said this: Anders Breivik or a YouTube anti-feminist?” inspired by Dick Coughlan reviewing the mass murderer’s manifesto and it really is remarkable just how much of the same language overlaps. “Feminized men.” “Cultural Marxism.” “Islam is the greatest threat to the West.” And while the overt text is that a guy like Carl Benjamin or Jordan Peterson use the same language and disturbingly share similar opinions, the subtext is that Breivik’s actions are the logical conclusion of a threat built up this big.
After all, if you were a disaffected suburban white guy and streaming these guys for hours on end hearing how Islam and feminism are out to radically change the world and destroy everything you hold dear, dear heavens they must be stopped before we all become slaves without video games or freedom of speech!!!… click the Subscribe button below and have you considered donating on Patreon? *wink* Well, there’s going to be a segment of extremists that find the lack of urgency in the action items to be incongruous and they will decide that violence is the way to go.
I realize it’s grim to ponder, but it’s important to remember that Breivik didn’t blow up a mosque or a minority neighbourhood in Oslo. He struck not only at the government he believed was ushering in this dystopian hellscape of tolerance and mutual respect, but also deliberately targeted youth activists at a Labor Party summer camp. These were Norway’s next generation of “SJWs” to use their parlance: feminists, community organizers, outreach activists, left of centre politicians, and he made sure that the ones that weren’t killed outright were traumatized sufficiently as not to pursue those ends. In this mind, they were an existential threat, a threat that is only echoed by the current crop of YouTube dipshits to this day.
And it just takes one to doff the suburban comforts and decide that violence is the only way.
Well, basing it on my nym, I got
“She had knockers like a shiny lemon and I shuddered to mansplain to her.”
@ Katamount:
https://www.amazon.com/Bring-War-Home-Movement-Paramilitary/dp/0674286073/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1523547594&sr=8-1&keywords=Bring+the+War+Home%3A+The+White+Power+Movement+and+Paramilitary+America
(wow, that’s a long one…)
Kathleen Belew’s book (hopefully) offers more in-depth analysis. It’s next on my Kindle Download.
This idea of ‘girls are evil/gross, just bang dudes’ has been around forever. I forget which Greek – or maybe Roman, or maybe both – philosopher/historian had the same idea, and there was the Japanese dude someone else mentioned. It didn’t work then, and it wouldn’t work now, even if there are any straight guys willing to attempt it.
I always thought it was weird when feminists of yore began touting political lesbianism as well. I get that there are different circumstances around the idea of political lesbianism, but… seriously? If a straight woman doesn’t want to get busy with dudes because of her personal views, that’s fine. I just don’t get why she’d have to force herself to be a lesbian rather than invest in a vibrator.
As a heterosexual-identifying man, I feel that a lot of my heterosexuality is cultural rather than inherent; informed by either the culture that I grew up in and the way I saw adults interact while I was a child, or by the culture in which I now live.
I agree with some earlier commentators that porn also had something to do with it: I didn’t get a lot of sex ed and what I did get wasn’t exactly progressive, so porn ended up influencing me.
I can well believe that a person who grew up in a different environment would have a very different view of not only what their sexuality was, but what sexuality itself is.
Wow a MR post with all 3 karma points!
You are a master detective and bring us only the finest points discussed there
Good job!
re: male novelist generator (which, I know, isn’t meant for me to use, but hey, what’s cultural appropriation FOR, anyway?!?)
I do have tresses like a shiny melon which I did not care to emotionally manipulate….
I’ll see myself to the door….
Katamount: David actually wrote a blog post several years ago about how the modern MRA misunderstanding/revision of “hypergamy” seems to have originated from the writings of the white nationalist Roger Devlin:
https://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/2013/05/16/hypergamy-how-the-harebrained-notion-of-white-nationalist-f-roger-devlin-took-the-manosphere-by-storm/
@KidVelociraptor
Thanks! That one passed me by! 🙂
@weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
Eugh, this is the worst superpower. Yes I know how to loop YouTube videos. Stop trying to convince me that my Chinese heritage has the best pharmaceuticals.
Re: male novelist generator:
Mine comes out like an MRA insult. 😛
a rear end silken princess planned hire
Arsehole, entitled, and affirmative action all in one. 😛
I had knockers like wrinkled tulips and he dreaded to admire me!
“Feminist” guy said
Just out of curiosity, why do you think it matters?
@Kidvelociraptor
Projection. The above is exactly what incels advocate, except with the sexes reversed.
OT:
I had to look up terf, and then clicked feminist and look what I found:
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Feminist
I’m… … speechless on how bad some of the lies are written. Improper grammar and examples. It’s horrendous.
All I can think of is the South Park episode where they solved future overpopulation/environmental destruction* by all the men getting in a big pile of an orgy to reduce future population.
*A time machine was invented in the future and future people were coming back in time to work for scraps that with compound interest would then provide for their families back in the future. “They took our Jerbs!” and such.