Madonna/Waifu: 4channers justify their love for YouTube shooter Nasim Aghdam

/pol/cats are at it again, I see.

At least they admit it’s an echo chamber, I guess?

*sigh*

It’s just a joke bro!

Mang after Charlottesville you think anyone here’d buy that?

Sad, displaced anger and frustration.

But we do realise you want to kill us. Many of the articles here are about just that.

So what? You can’t kill us… evidence? We are still alive.

Get fucked 4chan I literally hope ya’ll die lonely. And you will.

It amazes me that liberals don’t realize just how many people in the world want to kill them.

Nah mate, as a queer trans person, I’m well aware how many people wish I were dead.

I repeat this a lot, but journalists… sociologists… somebody needs to do an in-depth study on what causes people to become this. For the sake of all that is good and just and pure on this planet.

Well-adjusted people do not do spend any amount of their lives typing these things out and Photoshopping photos of deceased attempted murderers.

Troll 1 : “it’s ironic”

Trolls 2 & 3 : “no fuck you mate”

We should have reverse-open threads exclusively for trolls, and let those three in there, should be entertaining.

We already have those. They’re called “4chan”. 🙂

And just to really hammer the point that David made home:

First of all, please remember that Nazi talk and references on /pol/ are largely ironic.

Irony requires some foil for contrast. If the foil is “the functional norms of a decent society” (i.e. “normies” in their parlance), then there’s nothing ironic about Nazi memes not only is Nazism already outside the functional norms of a decent society, but it’s clear that /pol/ shares this contempt for the norms of decent society anyway, hence the natural gravitation towards that extreme over time.

For instance, these delightful chaps:

http://i.imgur.com/BPBx27z.png

Insert Kurt Vonnegut quote about who you pretend to be here.

Xezixy (sp?) had a video outlining what I’ve noted at least once before: despite the insistence from the so-called “classical liberals” that they’re in no way comparable to the alt-right… they still hate all the same people with the same vehemence. Traffic in the same language, the same talking points, and I’m going to have trouble telling you apart.

Again religious acceptance is a central tenant of the Baha’i faith. It’s very distressing to see this. I’m a second generation Baha’i and the whole thing turns my stomach. Moreso because it’s a terrible corruption of everything she believed.

I have family in the San Diego community. They never met her but they know her cousins. I shudder to think about the pain they would feel if they knew about this.

Upping @Saint-Somnia here. I was wearing a shirt supporting a local LGBTQIA+ candidate which had rainbow colors, and some fucker tried to run me over at the stoplight. Imagine what he would’ve done if he’d known I was genderqueer and had a girlfriend.

In furtherance of one of my earlier observations: Notice how much those two fine upstanding Kekistani citizens dress and look like Agents from The Matrix … not like the heroes, like the Agents.

Nasim had such a compassionate heart that she chose not to kill

That’s your definition of a compassionate heart? I’ve never killed anyone; do I get to be your dream waifu, too? Wait, nevermind, I don’t actually want that even a little.

It amazes me that liberals don’t realize just how many people in the world want to kill them. We might see an alt-right/muslim extremist team-up just to get rid of you.

They mean, like during World War 2?

Do these fools ever open a book (or one that doesn’t have pictures they can wank to, at least)?

Edit: the blockquote mammoth struck. Thought it had been slain. 🙁

loves animals like Hitler

Oh yes, who can forget the first time they saw a majestic Adolfus Hitleraris out in the wild? It’s just not the same when you see one in a zoo.

cute and weird wouldn’t have minded being with a socially awkward husband

Okay. So, trolls, particularly on 4chan, just love to talk about how autistic and socially awkward they are. How does that square with the Hitler love? Now, I’m sure a lot of them aren’t actually on the spectrum and just trying to use it as an excuse to be an asshole, but those of them that actually are on the spectrum or who have any other disability or mental illness would be killed or experimented on if they’d been in Nazi Germany/Nazi occupied areas. Do they not know that more people besides Jews were targeted by their hero? I mean, it’s so well known that I’m not even going to bother posting a citation. Because I assume that all the readers here already know that disabled and mentally ill people were not considered part of the master race. Are the channers really this ignorant? Or do they think that if a Nazi regime did come back in their countries that they would somehow be exempt? I just don’t get it.

I’m also confused about all the praise for her animal rights stance. I’m pretty sure it was channers who decided to troll Jezebel by posting animal torture pictures in the comments a few years ago. I really doubt they give a shit and I doubt that most of these dudes are vegetarian or vegan.

On the “irony” thing, nthing everyone else that it’s bullshit. To piggyback off of the intent conversation in the other thread, this is one of those times when it’s pretty safe to say that it does matter if you think you’re being a Nazi ironically or if you think you’re being a Nazi sincerely. If you are posting pro-white nationalist things, you are normalizing white supremacy and fascism and it is having real life consequences. Hate crimes have gone up in the US at least (not sure about elsewhere) and if you’re doing Nazi “shitposting” you are partially culpable for it. You providing cover for the people that are dead serious about their hate. So, any “ironic” Nazi channers reading this can go fuck off into a sea of Legos and millipedes and dog turds.

@shadowplay

I must be missing a crucial piece of information about World War 2 too. I’ll get a coffee and head on over to Wikipedia but if you have time to apprise me of the pertinent bits it could help me out

Aaand I just got the Madonna song reference in the title of the post. Good one.

It amazes me that liberals don’t realize just how many people in the world want to kill them.

How could I not be aware when assholes like you are a dime a dozen, bruh? Y’all literally go on and on about how much you want us dead. Constantly. I constantly have to hear y’all piss and moan about how much you want to kill me for being queer, or for being a feminist, or for thinking other people deserve basic human rights that include you not killing them.

You never shut up about it, but pretend that there’s some sort of conspiracy where we just don’t know or we’re “silencing” you. And yet, here you are, almost as if that’s not actually the case.

No Platforming should be the go-to, any “ironic” Nazification must be opposed as vehemently and by all means. I actually had the normalization-conversation quite recently with real-life Edgy Fools IRL, they were honestly believing in the non-reality of it, until I started describing actual, physical violence perpetrated by Channers/Kek-mongers, done to people I know personally. That actually got through to them a bit. But completely out of touch with offline-life and the realities of peoples lives.

That I met them in the flesh was a bit of luck, I don’t think I could’ve had any effect on them from behind the screen.

It’s bizarre to me that so many people see the internet as some kind of vortex that has nothing to do with the real world. It is part of real life and things said and done online can and does impact “meat space.” I’m hoping the Cambridge Analytica and Russian troll farm scandals will start to change the way we think about and talk about the internet and its effect on the culture as a whole but we’ll see.

Thanks for moderating these assholes away, David!

First of all, please remember that Nazi talk and references on /pol/ are largely ironic.

First of all, please remember the old saying: Even if you fuck goats in “irony”, you are still (un)ironically a goat-fucker. And goat-fuckers are repulsive, reprehensible people who are Forever Alone for a reason.

YouTube must take its share of responsibility and admit as much or we will gather for Valhalla.

I take it that THIS is “irony” too?

Well, my Norse ancestresses are hunched over their swords laughing at it, so I guess I’ll take it as such.

PS: Yes, I’m back! My computer is finally fixed. New keyboard AND trackpad. Sorry to anyone I couldn’t answer from my old iPad, which cut out at unpredictable times.

I cordially invite these guys to go piss up a rope.

Hmmm. Am I being ironic or not?

Hitler didn’t love every animal I recall he hated and feared cats (cracked counts as a source of I can’t remember the other sources right?)
Sorry I had to correct this

Welcome back, Bina!

I see the 4channers are recycling their “it’s just a JOKE” defense. Again.

@Bina, yaaay!

@Katamount,

Pls no. The issue isn’t that it isn’t being studied. We know how this works. This is considered a very important topic and has been since the Arab Spring; before that even. The issue is that no governments want to do anything about it. Don’t point at scientists and say “do more,” that doesn’t help.

About 21,000 hits for “radicalization internet” on google scholar. Here are some highlights:

Thompson, Robin L. “Radicalization and the use of social media.” Journal of strategic security 4.4 (2011): 167.

The use of social media tools by individuals and organizations to radicalize individuals for political and social change has become increasingly popular as the Internet penetrates more of the world and mobile computing devices are more accessible. To establish a construct for radicalization,the power and reach of social media will be described so there is common understanding of what social media is and how it is utilized by various individuals and groups. The second section will answer the question of why social media applications are the perfect platform for the radical voice. Finally, the use of social media and its influence in radicalizing populations in Northern Africa and the Middle East during 2011 will be analyzed and recommendations proposed.

Wright, Marie. “Technology and terrorism: How the Internet facilitates radicalization.” The Forensic Examiner 17.4 (2008): 14-20.

Extremist groups use the Internet for many reasons: to disseminate propaganda and spread disinformation; to recruit and train volunteers; to solicit funds from sympathizers; to gather data from open sources; to plan and coordinate attacks; to maintain communications–many of them encrypted–between members of a single terrorist group as well as with members of other terrorist groups; to provide tutorials on building and planting explosive devices; and to publicize their acts of violence and ultimately enhance the perceived image of their great strength. This article uses examples gathered from public sources to examine how the Internet is used to facilitate the radicalization of extremist groups, and offers options for implementing an effective response.

Koehler, Daniel. “The radical online: Individual radicalization processes and the role of the Internet.” Journal for Deradicalization 1 (2014): 116-134.

This paper examines in detail the role of the Internet in individual radicalization processes of eight German former right-wing extremists. Applying Grounded Theory methodology the qualitative interviews were analyzed in several coding and re-coding phases. The findings are integrated into the existing literature afterwards. Besides well known factors, such as more effective communication, anonymity and better networking opportunities, this study found evidence that the Internet is a major driving factor to establish and foster the development of radical contrast societies (cf. Koehler, 2015) transmitting radical and violent ideologies and translating them into political activism.
As a venue for information exchange, ideological development and training, the individual radicalization process was characteristically shaped or even made possible through the Internet. This paper also shows the high value of qualitative research regarding the topic in contrast to usually employed quantitative analysis of webpage content.

There’s a whole Journal of Deradicalization publishing articles. The issue isn’t a lack of study.

Am I the only one here who finds the OP illustration more than a little disturbing? Not because it’s debasing a religious icon for no good reason, but because it’s a sexualized pic of the Virgin Mary and her son, the INFANT Christ? Or am I just imagining a sexual subtext to that altered pic?

Lotta… just terrible shit here, but I’ll point out how gross their dialect or whatever is, cos that’s slightly less depressing/maddening. But only slightly. Just grime given the form of English grammar

Or do they think that if a Nazi regime did come back in their countries that they would somehow be exempt?

They think that if a Nazi regime did come back in their countries, they’d be one of the big important ringleaders, a Himmler or a Goebbels or similarly.

Of course, the most a lot of them could realistically hope for would be to end up a goose-stepping goon in the Gestapo or Wehrmacht, and a lot would just end up slaving away in munitions factories. Among the very few to end up initially as ringleaders, a lot would be purged eventually in a Night of the Long Knives, Redux, starting with the ones who were totally utterly serious about it getting rid of any goofier ones still flying Kekistan flags or heavily into Pepe. Ones with the wrong ethnic background or sexual orientation (Milo, Roosh, etc.) would obviously not be around very long either, and in all likelihood the eventual top echelon would consist mostly of people nobody’s heard of now.

It doesn’t get any better for them — not even the surviving upper echelon ones. Plots and intrigues would continue to threaten them, as in all force-dominated societies where the ruling class aren’t subject to the rule of law. In the original instance, the wars they’d opened on multiple fronts began to go badly, and eventually everyone, from the top tier down to the foot soldiers and the bomb-factory workers, had Allied bombs raining down around their ears.

In the event that history did not repeat itself that far, the resulting society would be quite unstable, both against a coup at the top and revolution from below. And if it dodged all those bullets, there’s a final and unavoidable problem for any despotic state in the modern world: cutting off the free press and other informational freedoms to inhibit or prevent revolutions means cutting off your nose to spite your face. Such nations always fall further and further behind economically, until they are outcompeted. Witness the fate of the Soviet Union. China might seem to be an exception, but it probably only seems that way. Likely, either the limited informational freedoms there are sufficient still for a revolution to eventually occur, or it will fall behind its more open and free competitor societies at some point, especially now as it seeks to expand its influence, end the defacto American monopoly on petroleum by usurping the petro-dollar system, and become a global superpower. Empire will require it to dismantle the Great Firewall, at least partially, in all likelihood, to interoperate with its client states once it has some (other than the benighted North Korea). If it doesn’t it will be stillborn as a true superpower, and if it does it will likely be forced to undergo reforms away from its current degree of despotism, or else face an eventual more major and destructive rupture down the line.

Hello.

cute and weird wouldn’t have minded being with a socially awkward husband

Say who ? Your imagination, i guess.

beautiful, good tight body, and her long neck ends up being really cute and unique once you realize she’s 100% woman

Because before you realized it, you were covering her with transphobe slurs, i suppose.

died for what she believed in

What ? That she was deserving more visibility from a free platform ? That she should earn more money ?

Aah, facts… Direct from ass to assholes…

Have a nice day.

@Surplus…

Thanks for putting all that so clearly. Reminds me of my pet peeve with AUs where the Nazis won and continue to dominate the world into the 1980s or later – I can *maybe* see them winning WWII if some things had gone a bit differently, but I don’t think that regime would have survived very long once they could no longer blame every problem that cropped up on someone else.

There was almost no way for the Soviet Union to lose WWII, due to its sheer size, troop counts, and industrial capacity. Absent an external forcing (in literary terms, a deus ex machina) like the flu that made such a mess during WWI, the only plausible path to a Nazi victory (besides allying with Stalin but not subsequently stabbing him in the back, then dividing up the world) was for the Nazis to beat everyone else to the Bomb.

As for a persistent Nazi state into the 1980s, it would be easiest if they had a persistent external foe, per your observation. So, the best case scenario for them post WWII would have been an Alternate Cold War, with the other side most likely either being the US, China, or the Soviets.

On the other hand, it must be noted here that a fascist state did survive WWII and persist most of the way to the 1980s: Franco’s dictatorship in Spain. What enable this I’m not sure; probably a combination of the (non-Alternate) Cold War and something something reduced-virulence strain something host-tolerance something something. (You’ll note at least the lack of the post-WWII Spain being aggressively expansionist…)

North Korea might offer a clue to a third path: isolationism with massively stoked xenophobia, permitting a cold-war mentality within the borders without necessarily having an actual external rival who feels an equivalent level of fear and enmity.

Of course, the cold-war mentality didn’t preserve the Soviet Union’s despotism indefinitely, and it won’t preserve North Korea’s, nor would it have done more than buy time for a hypothetical persistent Nazi state. If the typical lifespan for a highly-despotic cold-war-mentality society before radical change becomes inevitable is equal to the actual observed lifespan of the Soviet Union, the hypothetical persistent Nazis would probably have bit the big one circa 2011, if not earlier, and North Korea is unlikely to outlive the 2020s in its current form.

Semi-open societies like post-Maoist China might be more stable, like adding a safety valve to a boiler. Fully-open societies seem to be more prone to periodic civil wars than to violent regime overthrow. All of them seem to become unstable within a century though! The original 13 colonies were founded in the late 1600s, overthrew the despotic absentee aristocrat landlords in the late 1700s becoming an open society, then had a civil war in the mid-to-late 1800s, with a more minor crisis in the mid-1900s — the recent external fight of WWII might have been a stabilizing influence for a while afterward. Now it looks to be heading for a belated crackup.

Canada, founded in modern form in the mid-1800s, seems to have been quite stable for 150 years though, with a very small number of low-damage domestic terrorist incidents, no overt revolutions or civil wars, and occasional instances of one province making noises about secession, which never seems to go beyond just talk, single-digit-numbers-of-extremists aside. Perhaps Canada has stumbled upon a societal Fountain of Youth, a trick to maintaining longer-term stability? It’s not clear what that might be though, unless the parliamentary system without a separate executive is inherently more stable than other democratic structures. It’s still undergone cycles of rising wealth inequality followed by bursts of reforms, last time in the sixties when the NDP was able to force the Liberals to institute universal healthcare, among other things. But the reform periods seem to be accompanied by much less upheaval, especially of the violent variety, than in lots of other nations.

Perhaps the key is the overall cultural attitude toward violence itself. In the US the idea of asskicking as the ultimate resort if you otherwise can’t get your way seems much more in the cultural zeitgeist than in most other developed countries. It shows up in action movies, romanticizing of the wild west and its pistols-at-dawn to settle otherwise irreconcilable disputes, and in numerous other ways. In Canada, the zeitgeist seems to be to negotiate and horse-trade till everyone is equally (un)satisfied, guns are for hunting not killing the terrorists and/or overthrowing a government that becomes tyrannical (or for fantasizing about doing same), and even fisticuffs are for settling only such disputes as arise inside the waist-high oval wall of plywood that encloses a hockey rink. 🙂

Oddly, even though we consume a lot of American action movies and first-person-shooter video games, this seems to persist. Maybe maintaining a clear separation between fiction and real life is also to some degree a thing Canada does better …

@Surplus to Requirements:
The usual joke on that is: ‘The U.S. was founded in a bloody revolution; Canada was founded as a political compromise that didn’t really satisfy anybody. Both countries have continued much the same way ever since.’

That said, politically Canada has had the advantage of having the U.S. as an example both of what things work and what things don’t work. A good bit of that example made its way into the repatriated Constitution, leading to both the explicit ‘Charter of Rights and Freedoms’, as well as safety valves like the ‘Notwithstanding Clause’. (The latter has only ever really been used once, but just knowing it exists has led to some changes in how laws get written.)

(Didn’t an American Supreme Court Justice trigger a stink a few years back by suggesting that countries look at more recent examples of constitutions like Canada’s rather than the U.S. Constitution for inspiration? The U.S. Constitution was groundbreaking for its time, but that time was a couple of centuries ago.)

As for Nazis, I agree. They looked like a massive juggernaut early on, but that’s easier to pull off when you’ve been stockpiling for a while and have lots of patriotic but naive citizens to throw into the meat grinder before everybody else can get ready.

And when your R&D practices are controlled by many different people all fighting for money and prestige, including sabotaging each other to get their own pet projects more money… I think Atomic Robo had a line about ‘Why build one superweapon when you can underfund a dozen of them?’

As you said, fascist organizations like that tend not to be stable over multiple generations because of the political infighting. Spain had the advantage that it was just the one person running things for the most part for that time. North Korea has set up a noble family line, but there have already been cracks showing up in that; when the Dear Leader has multiple children, expect infighting to occur.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
I’m sure a lot of them aren’t actually on the spectrum and just trying to use it as an excuse to be an asshole

I have seen a lot of that when people use the spectrum as an excuse for misogynistic behavior. one of the sites on tumblr I used to go to called misandry mermaid where she was threaten along with other women and girls by this one guy and his parents excused him saying he’s on the spectrum and some of his supporters defended him too. The women, girls and their supporters tried to report him and his parents and supporters accused them of doxxing him and then received more threats, harassment just all around misogynistic garbage. It’s very disgusting and he’s not the only one.

Trigger warning
https://jezebel.com/tumblr-penalizes-woman-for-doxxing-creep-who-
issued-rap-1542946983

Do they not know that more people besides Jews were targeted by their hero?

Doing research is misandry and reverse racism and do ya know the Internet is run by the joooos? But seriously if Hitler was still alive and according to his beliefs, the channers would be the first to go.

Oh, and one thing I forgot to mention: don’t forget that Quebec isn’t the only province that had a separatist movement. Newfoundland and Labrador has a small one (Newfoundland was technically a separate British colony until 1949, and there are living people who remember when it wasn’t part of Canada yet) and Alberta was threatening separation back during the days of Pierre Trudeau’s National Energy Program.

…cutting off the free press and other informational freedoms to inhibit or prevent revolutions means cutting off your nose to spite your face. Such nations always fall further and further behind economically, until they are outcompeted. Witness the fate of the Soviet Union. China might seem to be an exception…

China banned VPNs, and they’re currently seeking to ensure the only encryption people have access to are those with government back doors. It’s happening.

“We were just being ironic! Swear!”
Okay, here are all the definitions of irony I could find:
SOCRATIC IRONY: a pretense of ignorance and willingness to learn from another assumed in order to make the other’s false conceptions conspicuous via adroit questioning.
VERBAL IRONY: the expression of one’s meaning using language typically used to signify the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect.
SITUATIONAL IRONY: an event or state of affairs that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often amusing as a result.
DRAMATIC IRONY: a literary technique, originating from Greek tragedy, by which the full significance of a character’s words or actions are clear to the audience but unknown to the other characters.
METALLURGICAL IRONY: anything of or relating to the physical and chemical properties of the element Iron (Fe)

At no point does any of that signify “pretending to be a Nazi because you think it’s funny.”