The Alt-Right Implosion: An extremely handy reading list

Honestly, this is nothing to celebrate. While all these psychotic fringe movements are collapsing under the weight of their own incompetence and belligerence, mainstream conservatives are not only still out there, they’re more nakedly bigoted than any time since the end of Jim Crow.

The extremists who helped bring Trump to power are miserable because they’ve built their entire identities around being extremists, railing against “normal” society and politics. Now that some of their racist proclivities are becoming more normalized they have no choice for protecting their own self-image but to double down, shrieking that anything less than 3rd Reich-style genocide of all non-whites constitutes a betrayal by Trump of his constituents, heedless of all sociopolitical realities (let’s not forget that the holocaust itself was a tremendous waste of resources that wound up being one of the major factors in the original Nazis losing the war).

The alt-right is a casualty of its own success.

We can laugh at their pain and their madness but the fact remains that the more functional sociopaths they elected are stronger than ever. Men like Richard Spencer are like the wings of a slaver ant queen, sloughed off when the creature has established itself and is ready to spread more death, bondage and misery.

Eh, I’m a little skeptical of people who make too much fuss about “ableism” in regard to mental illness. In my experience they’re usually people who have no interest in seeking real treatment and improving themselves and just use it to gain sympathy. Sympathy is for sick children and those mourning dead loved ones. Anybody else craving it is usually some kind of sociopath/malignant narcissist.

As to capitalist society coopting everything, I think at this point the only viable approach is the Sentinalese way. Respond to outsiders with nothing but hostility long enough and eventually they’ll decide it’s not worth the effort and forget about you. Which, I’ll grant you, isn’t too different from the alt-right, the difference is that the Sentinalese just want to be left the Hell alone.

@ an on

In my experience they’re usually people who have no interest in seeking real treatment and improving themselves and just use it to gain sympathy.

I’m afraid I’m very much going to have to disagree with you here.

Now, by way of background, before stumbling on this site I was prone to the common narrative of using words like crazy casually; especially in relation to politicians and their ilk. That’s not withstanding that I do have a bit of familiarity with mental health issues as they pertain to the law.

But over my time here I’ve met some very nice people, and they’ve explained to me just how hurtful such casual use is. Interestingly, notwithstanding your assertion that such people are just after sympathy, I’ve found that they’re actually very unlikely to even mention their own concerns when people do use such terms, whether that’s because of fear of stigmatisation or just the general socialisation not to make a fuss.

So I can completely understand when people find this site a bit of an oasis.

And as for having no interest in seeking treatment, well I’m sure there’s plenty of people here who can tell you of their years’ long struggles to get help or afford medication.

I personally think its important not to give up on people even when they give up on themselves. Having strong people around you really helps, but thats just my opinion.

My goodness, you are making a splash, @An on

I shall be brief and numerate!

1) Doesn’t matter whether you think ableist language is actually just fine or not, in the same way that it doesn’t matter whether you’re cool with swearing in front of small children or not. Site’s got rules against using ableist language. Ignore them at your peril.

2a) Doesn’t matter if you think “eh, people who care about ableist language are just virtue signaling hypocrites” or not. There are many people here – some who are even talking to you! – who have said they find WHTM a place of relief and welcome because of the ableist language policy.

2b) There are very, very few places on the web or in the world that care to distinguish between mental illness and bad character. People with some sort of mental condition get painted with the same brush as murderers and bigots on-the-regular. If you’re a moral person, you should be horrified about that, and should want to change.

3) It’s a little difficult at first – ableist language is extremely common and a go-to insult, and these fuckweasels we talk about on this site are begging for insult. This policy feels restrictive at first. We’ve all been there. But you should embrace it! If for no other reason, your faculties of wit and insult will blossom like a spiky, angry rose. Get creative with your insults instead. It’s fun and good for you.

In short, my duck, we don’t give a damn whether you like the rule or not, we care about the people who carry the weight of those words way more than we care about your desire to use them. Embrace it and improve yourself or the door’s to your right.

toodle boodle!

EDIT: (mental note to self: return to this thread to eviscerate aforementioned misunderstanding of Dunbar’s Number and the application of empathy. Remember to bring paring knife this time)

@An on:
So, here’s the thing. This website is owned by David Futrelle. He pays for it. He kindly allows others to comment here if they obey the rules he lays down. One of those rules is that commenters here do not use mental health as a slur. These are not my rules, although I happen to agree with them. These are David’s rules. If you do not obey them, your presence here is unwelcome. One way or another, you will stop posting such things here.

If you disagree, you are very welcome to pay for your own webhosting elsewhere and post whatever you like there.

You may feel, as Shadowplay does, that based on your behaviour you do not belong here. That’s a valid feeling. You may alternatively believe that it is possible for you to become the sort of person who does belong here, and that’s also a valid feeling. But our tolerance is not unlimited.

@Scildfreja:

EDIT: (mental note to self: return to this thread to eviscerate aforementioned misunderstanding of Dunbar’s Number and the application of empathy. Remember to bring paring knife this time)

Ooooh ooooh I wanna see this!

I know you’re more tolerant towards Yudkowskianism than I am, but this is one of the things about it that’s always annoyed me, and seeing a real researcher speak about it would be a delight.

you’ll slide down the slope and into a valley in a whole other mountain range in a different country.

In Europe there’s like a universal ‘112’ emergency services number that works in every country. That was initially introduced because skiers and climbers would fall down the Alps and not know which country they’d landed in.

(Amazing as that sounds, and in view of the date, I should confirm that is 100% true)

Hardly a loss.

Thank you for taking your leave politely, An on.

In case you’re still reading, the following is sincerely intended as advice given with the best wishes, from one argumentative internet white guy to another, and not as a parting shot. It requires no response.

I thought people might be interested to hear a different perspective but I guess it’s a little too different.

The thing is that your perspective is neither “different” nor “too different.” It has been heard many, many times before by almost everyone here. It has been heard often enough that we have standard terms for its component parts, and we have standard in-jokes for its callout lines. You thought you were fresh, but found that we treated you as stale. I understand that this may be a difficult thing to hear, and I empathise with that.

If you have a position which has not been taken before, which is genuinely original and thought-provoking, and which draws upon your life experience in ways which provide a formerly-unheard perspective, then that would be worth hearing.

If you do not have such a perspective, then it’s often worth lurking and reading the blogs of those who do.

Eh, I’m a little skeptical of people who make too much fuss about “ableism” in regard to mental illness.

Braces self

In my experience they’re usually people who have no interest in seeking real treatment and improving themselves and just use it to gain sympathy. Sympathy is for sick children and those mourning dead loved ones. Anybody else craving it is usually some kind of sociopath/malignant narcissist.

Jesus, An on, not everything is about you. People who are suffering don’t typically want your sympathy. Including sick children and people in mourning. I remember when I was in 4th grade there was a girl with leukemia. She hated getting sympathy. She just wanted to feel normal and to be treated like everyone else. Same with when I was mourning the death of my fiance. I wanted people to stop getting that damn look on their faces that said they felt sorry for me. I wanted their help sometimes, to be able to talk to them, but they wouldn’t give me that (I was being too negative, you see, working through my problems like that), they just gave me fucking sympathy. I had to help them feel better about my loss. Fuck your sympathy.

Likewise, mentally ill people, Deaf people, and disabled people don’t want sympathy. They want accessibility. They want people to stop talking down to them and othering them. They want equity in pay and accommodations. They want to be treated like full people with agency.