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Pickup guru “Heartiste” hallucinates a quote from Stormy Daniels to prove the Donald is a total sex god

Storm warning

By David Futrelle

Imagine being so invested in the idea of Donald Trump as a Sex Lord that you hallucinate — or simply invent — a quote from Stormy Daniels as “proof” of the Donald’s prowess.

That’s what our dear friend, the floridly racist, lady-hating pickup guru who calls himself Heartiste has done. In a recent blog post, he announced (with, one presumes, a swelling of pride) that

Stormy Daniels alluded on-air in 2007 that Trump was “the best sex she ever had”. Reminder that this was when Trump was in his 60s, and she was a porn whore who had taken untold numbers of cock to all of her holes. Add her to the list of Trump’s lovers who have said the same about his bedroom prowess. (Also add to the list of Trump qualities that drive shitlibs insane with rage and envy.)

I suppose it might, if it were true. But it’s not. As Heartiste would have surely realized had he actually read the article he posted as proof with any degree of care. Here’s Heartiste’s proof, in the form of a “meme” that it looks like he put together himself, adding a weird anti-Semitic rant to a screenshot from the Daily Beast.

Wait, what do the Jews have to do with this?

Here’s the highlighted line from the Daily Beast article, in case you can’t read the tiny blurry type:

She also said it was “horribly embarrassing” that this person was the best in bed out of the three names listed, and she claimed he had contacted her “twice a month.” 

Emphasis mine. Though the Daily Beast summary doesn’t make it completely clear (though the original article that was its source does), Mr. The Love Sponge didn’t ask Ms. Damiels to write down the name of everyone she’d ever slept with, just the famous ones. Of those three famous people, she said Trump was the best. Which means the other two must have been just terrible, because in recent months she has not exactly said terribly flattering things about Trump’s bedroom moves.

In a famous interview with In Touch magazine, Daniels described her first “date” with Trump in his hotel bedroom:

He was sitting on the bed and he was like, ‘Come here.’ And I was like, ‘Ugh, here we go.’ And we started kissing.

She told In Touch that the sex itself “was textbook generic,” adding

I actually don’t even know why I did it, but I do remember while we were having sex, I was like, “Please, don’t try to pay me.”

What a sex god.

Now there was one woman who was famously quoted as saying that sex with Trump was “the best sex I ever had.” That was his ex-wife Marla Maples.

But earlier this year Maples told a Page Six reporter that

I never said that, someone else said that. [But] is it true? I’m not going to talk about that. The truth will come out, just not here.

We’ll just have to see what Stormy says tonight. [EDITED TO ADD, POST INTERVIEW: If you check out the transcript of the interview you will see that it didn’t exactly back up the “Stormy thought Trump was a sex god” theory. I’ve pasted some appropriate bits in the comments below.]

Not that it really matters if The Donald is a stud or a dud (though, I mean, come on; how could someone so utterly self-absorbed possibly be good at sex?). What’s amusing to me is that it seems to matter so much not just to Mr. Trump himself but to so many of his most fervid fans.

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Bananananana dakry: Short-Haired, Fat, and Deranged
Bananananana dakry: Short-Haired, Fat, and Deranged
3 years ago

@JoeB

Oh sweet baby spaghetti monster, I was eating breakfast when I read that. *pukes in soul*

Kevin
Kevin
3 years ago

@ Alan Robertshaw.

It sounds like the antiheamorrhagics you are most familiar with are chitosan based. Looks like interesting stuff, (just looked it up) I’ll ask She Who Must Be Obeyed about it. She’s a nurse so she might know a bit more, or simply be professionally intrigued.

Shadowplay
3 years ago

@Alan

Presumably, they’ll update me in 2019 when I need to refresh.

If memory serves, you’re Devils Own (Devils Royal here, though we’re now the Tigers, which isn’t as fun)?

You’ll get updated on it, yes. Getting access to it though … TA and home regiments are waaaayyyy down the list. Got to use up the leftovers from the last three wars somehow! 😛

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

I’m pretty sure kids already are being taught CPR and the Heimlich and things. When I was in high school we went through the first aid certification training for health class. It’s a false dilemma that poopjizz was presenting as a deflection.

On the Stormy Daniels consent thing. If she said it’s consensual, I don’t think we can argue with how she experienced it. On the other hand, it says a lot that her reaction being alone with Trump and discovering he expected sex was that she put herself in a bad situation so she might as well just do it. She consented to sex she didn’t want to avoid non-consensual sex in part because she knew she would be to blame if she said no and he didn’t listen.

This is exactly why we say we live in a rape culture and it’s exactly why that feminist quote* about how no sex can truly be consensual in a patriarchy is relevant even today. I think the reason anti-feminists get so up in arms about that quote and the term rape culture is because they know damn well women consent to unwanted sex to take the path of least resistance all the time. This benefits men by allowing some of them – particularly the ones who are assholes – to get laid without worrying about their partner’s enjoyment. It benefits men by keeping women doing things like networking and forming mentor relationships with men in the industries they want careers in because that puts us in “bad situations.” It gives men such a leg up when it comes to their careers that they don’t have to worry they’re only being given an opportunity in exchange for a sexual favor. They no that quote isn’t saying literally that all sex is rape. They no rape culture doesn’t mean all men are rapists. It’s just that replacing rape culture with affirmative consent culture will take away a whole lot of male privilege and that scares them.

* I just woke up after having taken ibuprofen PM last night so I’m a bit groggy and not feeling like looking up the quote and who said it right now. But I think you all know which quote I’m talking about.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ shadowplay

I was going to be Inns of Court Regiment (or 68 Inns of Court & City and Yeomanry as we refuse to call it; that mix of the ‘and’ and the ampersand just won’t do). I also looked at HAC. But then I got told I could do everything they wanted from me as a civvie contractor. All the hotels and none of the getting shot at appealed rather more.

I have been toying with the idea of 6 Rifles though; so long as they promise not to deploy me anywhere unpleasant.

I know what you mean about the courses; I used to deliver a few up at Halton. But funnily enough I’ve got some friends from Hereford and they were complaining that the reserves are getting all the best kit now because they’ve got a choice so they need to bribe them.

Katamount
Katamount
3 years ago

*sigh* Yup, just knew the MAGA-CHUDs were going to high-five each other on the news that their God-Emperor cheated on his wife with an adult actress.

Young person supports right-wing politics: obviously they arrived at this position through their own superior intellect.

Young person supports left-wing politics: they’re immature, they’ve been brain-washed, they’re a crisis actor, how much are they being paid?

I get the impression that this mindset comes from a latent authoritarian expectation combined with an astonishment that people can be altruistic in their desire to change the existing systems that govern society. If little Johnny obeys and respects his elders, goes to church and joins mommy and daddy at the local “Let’s Harass Some Planned Parenthood Employees” gathering, then he’s being a mature boy wiser than his years. Now if little Jenny goes to a different church and her pastor/reverend urges her to take care of the poor and she joins Habitat for Humanity, she’s doing what a good God-fearing and charitable Christian does, but once she starts agitating for say, improved housing provisions for the poor in her own community, she has nothing to gain from that! Why ever would Jenny do something not in her own rational self-interest? Not only is she caring about the poors that her parents have been ignoring, they might have to devote some of their hard-earned tax dollars to taking care of their fellow man. Can’t have any of that!

And heaven forfend she starts thinking her parents are in the wrong for their opinions on the poors! At that point, little Jenny’s a lost cause. Probably listens to the Satan music and smokes the crazy weed too!

It’s like that famous Dom Helder Camara quote:

When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ katamount

Yeah, I suspect though “Honour your father and your mother” suddenly becomes less of an injunction if little Jenny rebels against her hippy parents’ ideals and starts hanging around the John Birch Society.

kuro68k
kuro68k
3 years ago

This might be an example of a new technique used by the alt-right. I’ve seen it on Brietbart and of course in countless comments.

They add links to “back up” their claims, even though the links debunk them. They just assume that you won’t check, and most of their readers probably don’t.

Makes them seem a little more believable I guess, and by the time anyone points it most people have moved on anyway.

Katamount
Katamount
3 years ago

@Alan

Indeed; if little Jenny grows up to become Sarah Palin, then she’s obeying the higher authority (white Jesus or somesuch).

Shadowplay
3 years ago

@Alan

Hotels? I’ve heard rumours – nay, myths! – of such places on a deployment.

6th Rifles though … you’d be taking your chances with unsavory deployments there. The poor sods train on Dartmoor, FFS! 😛

@wwth

Yep. Stormy Daniels said it were consensual – we got no call nor right to dispute her statement on that. Her word is good enough.

(I’m making the assumption there that she does know what consent is – think it’s a fair assumption, her being a functioning adult.)

Moggie
Moggie
3 years ago

Incidentally, I’m cheered to see that the gun manufacturer Remington has filed for chapter 11 (though sad for the workers who are likely to lose their jobs). Seems the Trump presidency hasn’t been good for gun sales: without a scary black man coming for your guns, Remington’s sales fell by over 27% in the first nine months. Though I think Remington were already in a precarious state.

Moggie
Moggie
3 years ago

I suspect that any woman who has worked in the adult industry is more aware than most of consent and its boundaries.

Shadowplay
3 years ago

@Moggie

Same here, but I’ve seen it today in a few places: variations on “She couldn’t have consented, she must be wrong,” or hedging it about with conditionals.

Pisses me off, that. Talk about removing a person’s agency.

EJ (The Other One)
3 years ago

What WWTH said.

Re Daniels consenting, I got the feeling in the interview that she didn’t say she consented. She started to talk through her feelings about the murky consent involved, then Anderson Cooper cut her off with the phrase “You consented” and she chose not to contradict him.

I’m guessing that the reason why Cooper talked over Daniels like this is at least partly to do with him not wanting to be responsible for a broadcast in which a thin-skinned litigation-prone bully gets openly called a rapist. If that’s true then that’s shitty and cowardly of him, but it’s at least an understandable cowardice.

Ultimately, she’s the only one who gets to say whether she consented or not; and she’s also the only one who gets an opinion on whether she’s going to discuss it any further or not.

Knitting Cat Lady
Knitting Cat Lady
3 years ago

Regarding the consent thing:

It certainly wasn’t enthusiastic consent. And Cooper talked over here before she could say either way.

That was rather disappointing.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
3 years ago

I don’t think it’s as complicated as

this mindset comes from a latent authoritarian expectation combined with an astonishment that people can be altruistic in their desire to change the existing systems that govern society

It’s just a raw rationalization, I think. They feel that the other side is bad, wrong, misguided, etc, so if they see people on the other side behaving in ways they approve (altruistically, generously) there is a disconnect between “person I disapprove of (liberal!)” and “behaviour I approve of (altruism!)” So their brains do a search to reconnect them, some way for it to make sense again, given what they know and believe.

Anything that makes that connection activates more brain regions than anything that makes the disconnect wider / creates additional conflict. “Crisis actor” feels more right to them, because it confirms things they already feel to be true. It puts unconscious tensions to bed and lets them reform a whole picture of the world.

Confirmation bias, basically. Things that confirm the picture they already believe to be true are more believable than those which don’t. “Crisis Actor” confirms the belief that all good Americans hate gun control, confirms that they’re on the “Good” side, confirms that the enemy is devious and duplicitous. It all settles into place.

That is my take on it at least!

Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
3 years ago

Seems the Trump presidency hasn’t been good for gun sales: without a scary black man coming for your guns, Remington’s sales fell by over 27% in the first nine months.

Could it be in part a longterm structural development?

Like, gun stockpilers are largely strapped for cash after eight years of stockpiling under Obama?

Or, stockpilers are increasingly buying secondhand guns since some other stockpilers have died and their children inherited nothing but guns – that were mostly unused and well kept?

Maybe there’s a limit to how many guns Americans can be persuaded to own?

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
3 years ago

On Stormy Daniels not giving enthusiastic consent, and saying “I’m not a victim”, and Cooper basically shoving the words at her… ugh. Well, it paints a pretty clear picture of the world, at least.

Was it rape? Not for me to decide; that’s for her. The fact that she felt that she had to do something she didn’t want to do is pretty damning, though. Distasteful choices in which all options are bad, and you just get to decide which flavour of awful you want. This is the world we live in.

Cooper might have been talking over her in order to avoid some potential lawsuit, maybe. Or he could just be some dude talking over a woman because he’s a powerful dude talking to a woman our society has deemed to be morally culpable, and heaven forbid a powerful man talk over a woman much less one working in adult entertainment. He did a good job at letting her finish her sentences most of the time, at least. Good for you, Mr Cooper.

I appear to have broken my sarcasm ladle

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
3 years ago

My response to Heartiste’s latest flight of fancy: If a lover doesn’t pay attention to your responses and adjusts accordingly, then I don’t care if they know every move in the Kama Sutra. Consideration is almost as sexy as consent. Plain ol’ missionary can be the best sex you’ve ever had if your partner is paying attention to you (however you care to define it).

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Yeah, I’m not going to call her a victim if that’s not how she chooses to see it. But I think it’s crystal clear that if we lived in a society with no rape culture where affirmative consent was the norm the sex wouldn’t have happened.

How many women (and men too for that matter) say yes to sex not because they want to but because saying no could cause problems in some way or another? Many. If not most. Does Donald Trump know that and take advantage of it? I’m sure he does. As do a whole lot of other men. This is why I tend to avoid men who get defensive when the topic of rape culture comes up. These men may not be rapists in the forcing themselves on someone sense or a get a woman too drunk to fight him sense. But they’re probably the type of guys who like to put women in “tough situations” where they might say yes just to avoid hurting his feelings or causing trouble.

Shadowplay
3 years ago

Because gamergaters can’t just blow away like an unwelcome fart:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/krishrach/comicsgate

Yes, harrassment is involved. Yes, it is primarily targeted at women who dare work in comics.

solecism
solecism
3 years ago

Hmm. I don’t really recall learning much about consent. And I sure as hell didn’t know the difference between consent and compliance until middle age. Most of the sexual encounters in my life have involved the latter not the former on my part. And a lot of it was due simply to growing up in rape culture and what a mindfuck it is. Like, I had no concept that I could have sexual agency. That changing my mind was even possible. I thought that I should have expected it (sex because we were alone together). That blue balls or being a cocktease are The Worst Thing in the World. And on and on.

A lot of the sexual trauma I’ve experienced is partly self-inflicted to some degree (whole lot of “shoulding” on myself). But it also points to how few of my sexual partners have been considerate or concerned with my needs or helped me figure out my own desires and agency. I take that to be the norm, really. And have retired from the field.

Yeah, there’s a whole lot of ick about the original situation being revealed, and the reactions of folks like Heartiste. I don’t feel the need to follow people’s links and further need eye bleach.

Dormousing_it
Dormousing_it
3 years ago

@Lumipuna: I hope that’s the case. I’ve thought about that, too. I realize some people collect rare, historical, and antique guns, but it’s logical to assume a certain point is eventually reached…

Not to mention – gun permits, taxes, insurance, storage – all the ancillary costs.

Starfury
Starfury
3 years ago

The consent thing

A lot of varying reasons have been covered here well but I just wanted to add some anecdotal reasons into the mix. I’ve had sex with quite a few people I didn’t want to just coz it was easier than not to. I used to drink a lot and it would make me completely indifferent at times. Two of those encounters ended without anyone getting off (1 count of brewers droop and one I stopped because he was painfully big and mishandling it) and I never felt in danger or unable to say no. There have also been times I’ve done it so as not to hurt someones feelings. We have some real social problems regarding sex and I want to work towards addressing them so that everyone is having continuous-enthusiastic-consent sex. I don’t feel like I was unduly pressured to have sex with people I didn’t want to but some might see it as I’ve been socially conditioned to be a people-pleaser in bad ways. I dunno.

TL:DR
I have sexed people I didn’t want to do the sex with, entirely without pressure to do so, because I was indifferent towards the act. No hard feelings. Enthusiastic consent sex is (obviously) the ideal we should be striving for as a society.

Kevin
Kevin
3 years ago

Re: Gun companies in trouble; most products reach market saturation eventually. You may have hit the nail on the head.

Barney Miller
Barney Miller
3 years ago

Remington has suffered a considerable drop in quality since they became The Freedom Group (blech) in 2007, but they had been suffering from poor sales for years before then. Apparently they did not turn a profit from 2003-2005.

I think its more of a coincidence that its happening now that Trump is in, rather its decades of bad management.

I know I wouldn’t buy another Remington after my 1000$ .308 needed a recall because their quality control department just happened to miss a problem with the models trigger that could have cause an accidental discharge. 🙄

Dvärghundspossen
Dvärghundspossen
3 years ago

The consent discussion is interesting. I think both that a lot of things are rape that people tend not to think of as rape, but also that there’s room for shitty and unwanted sex which still isn’t rape, and thirdly that if we had a better culture around sex overall we’d have less of that and that would be really desirable.

Lastly I wanna say that I actually don’t think you can always take someone’s word for whether something was rape or not and that it’s always up to the victim to decide. For instance, suppose a wife is taught that there’s no such thing as marital rape. Her husband forces himself on her, but because she dowesn’t recognize marital rape as a thing, she doesn’t think of it as rape. Well, I think she’s objectively wrong here. It’s possible to be wrong about what happened to you was rape or not. (And you could be wrong for slightly less dramatic reasons than this.)

That said, it’s not clear to me how to judge the Stormy Daniels case so let’s suspend judgement.

PeeVee the Tired
PeeVee the Tired
3 years ago

As I undetstand it, the Remington reorganization effectively destroys the Sandy Hook parent’s class action lawsuit against the company.

A pity.

TreePerson
TreePerson
3 years ago

@Barney Miller
Its possible that scary-black-president panic buying kept them going for a while but then that ended and trump slump kicked in and killed them.

@PeeVee the Tired
I did not think of that! It could be a legal ass covering maneuver.

Barney Miller
Barney Miller
3 years ago

@Treeperson

Sounds plausible to me, the right screamed about Obama “coming for your guns” at every opportunity and there were record high sales all through his presidency.

Moon_custafer
Moon_custafer
3 years ago

Someone a few weeks ago in another forum pointed out that a problem with guns, from the manufacturers’ perspective, is that they really don’t wear out, if properly cared for – the rise of the present-day version NRA may partly have been due to them realizing that they had to come up with a new marketing strategy.

Laugher at Bigots
3 years ago

if they see people on the other side behaving in ways they approve (altruistically, generously) there is a disconnect between “person I disapprove of (liberal!)” and “behaviour I approve of (altruism!)” So their brains do a search to reconnect them, some way for it to make sense again, given what they know and believe.

“Virtue signalling” also falls within this theory.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

This weekend has been such a stark reminder that Trumperism is every bit as much about misogyny as it is racism and nativism.

Between evangelicals supporting Trump and attacking Stormy Daniels even though he was the one that was married and he was the only one of the two sending out goons to make death threats (so much for religious conservatives only being benevolent sexists, huh?) and the increasingly vicious attacks on Emma Gonzales it’s starting to feel like we’re all living in a reddit thread or something. Anyone else notice that out of all the Parkland student activists, Gonzales is getting the most vitriol? All of them are getting hate from the right, but she seems to be the subject of the nastiest and most personal attacks.

Shadowplay
3 years ago

Anyone else notice that out of all the Parkland student activists, Gonzales is getting the most vitriol? All of them are getting hate from the right, but she seems to be the subject of the nastiest and most personal attacks.

Yep. It’s pretty obvious.

And the reason they are all being attacked? The kids’ve got some serious money to keep on fighting with.
This isn’t a flash in the pan thing.

PeeVee the Tired
PeeVee the Tired
3 years ago

WWTH,

Keith Raniere has been arrested.

https://apnews.com/amp/5792b1ec7c0446629dcd7e13aaf5025d

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
3 years ago

@Dvarghundspossen

I actually don’t think you can always take someone’s word for whether something was rape or not and that it’s always up to the victim to decide. For instance, suppose a wife is taught that there’s no such thing as marital rape. Her husband forces himself on her, but because she dowesn’t recognize marital rape as a thing, she doesn’t think of it as rape. Well, I think she’s objectively wrong here. It’s possible to be wrong about what happened to you was rape or not. (And you could be wrong for slightly less dramatic reasons than this.)

That said, it’s not clear to me how to judge the Stormy Daniels case so let’s suspend judgement.

Excellent point.

Also, I’m old enough to remember when marital rape was legally not rape. I hung on the details of Greta Rideout’s testimony against her husband, John Rideout, in the notorious 1978 Oregon case. He was ultimately acquitted, but — surprise! (joke: I’m not surprised that he raped again) — he was recently convicted of raping two women. The conviction? That is a surprise.

http://torontosun.com/2017/03/17/john-rideout-who-was-acquitted-in-1978-rape-of-wife-guilty-of-sexually-assault-ex-girlfriend-church-acquaintance/wcm/6fa2aaca-3e1a-439f-8f2f-54302f456b51

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
3 years ago

My own take on the Stormy Daniels interview is that Anderson Cooper was attempting to distinguish between a physically coerced act of sex and “consent.”

That said, there’s a lot more involved in consent.

If I were in Stormy Daniels’ situation, I would certainly be wondering whether the choice was (1) sex now and then getting the hell out of the room and (2) first being beaten (and possibly never recovering) and then being raped. And then getting the hell out of the room — if I could.

Either way, of course, Trump is still a sexy, sexy sex god/statesman.

Nequam
Nequam
3 years ago

Remington has suffered a considerable drop in quality since they became The Freedom Group (blech) in 2007…

Which by an amazing coincidence was the year they were bought out by a private equity firm– and we’ve seen how those folks manage.

The Real Cie
3 years ago

“Ugh, here we go,” does not equate to “best sex I ever had,” no matter how you look at it. That would be pretty damn sad.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

I actually think that to Shartiste, if women say to themselves “ugh here we go” and have sex with a man anyway, that man is an alpha sex god. Because to them it’s only winning if they persuade an unenthused woman to allow him to sex at her. It’s alpha to dominate a woman into joyless sex. It’s beta to have fun sex with an enthusiastic partner.

Z&T
Z&T
3 years ago

@ Katamount,

“At that point, little Jenny’s a lost cause. Probably listens to the Satan music and smokes the crazy weed too!”

Wait, you know us how? Are you the guy who just went to get beer? If so, when you get back, park on the street and come up the back stairs.

😀

I and my associates here are really bad girls, we dared to get education, in (manly) sci and biz no less!

o0

Can add some Satan Music! that we were just listening to 🙂

Bananananana dakry: Short-Haired, Fat, and Deranged
Bananananana dakry: Short-Haired, Fat, and Deranged
3 years ago

@Z&T

Danzig is best Satan Music.

tim gueguen
3 years ago

Even if Remington goes bankrupt the name will continue. Someone will buy it to market guns. Perhaps the Moonie controlled Kahr Arms, as they’ve bought several brands over the years.

bluecat
bluecat
3 years ago

@ WWTH

I actually think that to Shartiste, if women say to themselves “ugh here we go” and have sex with a man anyway, that man is an alpha sex god. Because to them it’s only winning if they persuade an unenthused woman to allow him to sex at her. It’s alpha to dominate a woman into joyless sex. It’s beta to have fun sex with an enthusiastic partner.

Well said and spot on, too. Isn’t that the whole PUA schtick in a nutshell?

I really don’t care about Trump having sex, and would rather not imagine it… but my goodness how this sorry tale speaks to character!

Who’da thunk it that the man who said “Often when I was sleeping with one of the top women in the world I would say to myself ‘Can you believe what I am getting?'” might be really rubbish in the sack.

Something you “get”, which reflects on your status, and where the other person counts only in terms of the status you rate them at… Ugh…

As for the evangelicals, nothing surprises me since I saw that pastor struggling to explain how Bill Clinton’s infidelities reflect badly on Hillary while Trump’s open bragging about sexual assault (and the pursuit of a recently-married woman) didn’t reflect badly on the Donald.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

Re: PUA

We were having a bit of a laugh a while back on Discord over an article from ROK. It was by a guy who’d moved to a new place. He was explaining his guaranteed no fail approach to picking up women.

He first contacted 100 women on some dating app. He got four responses. Of those four “Three of them ghosted me after I’d spoken to them”. Hah, that showed them, he wasn’t fool enough to fall for their ‘shit test’.

One woman though did arrange to meet him. Yet despite him ‘maintaining frame’ she left the bar without telling him.

His take from this? The local women has been infected by hypergamy or something and had an over inflated opinion of their own ‘SMV’.

Thing is, this wasn’t a spoof or anything, this was a genuine PUA Guru giving his advice. The lack of self awareness was mind boggling, almost beautiful in a way, it was so perfect.

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
3 years ago

On that notion that the Parkland students are faking, or paid actors, or being manipulated:

Scildfreja commented that:

if they see people on the other side behaving in ways they approve (altruistically, generously) there is a disconnect between “person I disapprove of (liberal!)” and “behaviour I approve of (altruism!)”

This is no doubt the case for some (or most) of those people, but for others, I think it’s more what Katamount described – they literally cannot see why anyone would act in ways that don’t serve themselves, first and foremost. Altruism isn’t something they approve of; it’s something they absolutely hate, and/or refuse to believe in.
I think this is a common thread in hardcore NRA types, PUAs, MRAs, MGTOWs, etc. etc., and one reason why people like J Peterson are worshipped.

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
3 years ago

@starfury
I very much identify with basically everything you said in your post – thank you

@bluecat

Something you “get”, which reflects on your status, and where the other person counts only in terms of the status you rate them at… Ugh…

Yes, exactly. The only time I ever felt remotely close to that was when I had sex with a friend who was (to me, anyway) incredibly physically attractive. But even then, my feeling was more like “holy crap this beautiful person is having sex with me!! I am so damn lucky!!”

bluecat
bluecat
3 years ago

@ Mish of the Catlady…

But even then, my feeling was more like “holy crap this beautiful person is having sex with me!! I am so damn lucky!!”

I’d say that’s a fine way to feel: lucky and blessed in the other person.

May we all be so lucky!

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
3 years ago

Oh, I don’t disagree, Mish! I just don’t think those people are all that common compared to others. The hardcore randian misers certainly despise anyone who’s generous or thoughtful to others, and there’s certainly a cultural disapproval of being “nice”. Being compassionate and thoughtful is, y’know, feminine. Ew.

But I do still think that the biggest chunk of it’s just plain old confirmation bias. Mostly because confirmation bias doesn’t take a conscious effort to explain why something’s going on.

Maybe there’s more of an admix than i’d previously thought. Hm! Interesting.

solecism
solecism
3 years ago

What the hell is “maintaining frame” and “breaking frame” bullshit? I am completely lost on that one.

Also, I had this epiphany a couple weeks ago that all of these struggles in the so-called culture wars are about the fundamental philosophical divide between those who value property rights and those who value human rights, whether it’s talking about guns, police violence, reproductive rights, consent, any of it. You are property vs you are a fellow being in this world with the right to exist because you exist. Full stop.