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There is no such thing as a woman good at sex: Part 1 in a new series, “MGTOWs explain sex”

If a woman moves during sex, she’s probably a slut

By David Futrelle

So today I’d like to present the first post in what I hope will become a long-running series: MGTOWs Explain Sex.

Because who knows sex better than dudes who’ve loudly declared their independence from women but for some reason spend their every waking moment obsessing over them? Who better to turn to for advice on sex than straight dudes who hate women so thoroughly they center their very identity around this hatred?

As you read the first entry in this series, drawn from the Men Going Their Own Way subreddit, I think you’ll understand just how valuable their advice can be.

ZCnegan 29 points 2 months ago* Women are not supposed to be skilled at sex. Sex is done by the male. The woman just takes it. There is no such a thing as women good at sex. There are women that are hot and women that are not hot. Some women that are hot have less sex appeal than other aparently less hot women, but that has nothing to do with them moving more or less in the bed. They can however be better in the bed if they do what we tell them to do. If they scream, being submissive, or if they talk dirty, or whatever fits your taste. This is why sex dolls can replace them... It is a feminist era idea that women can be active in the bed. Women orgasm with rape. Women orgasm with men that dont care about their orgasm. Women do not orgasm if they understand that you are trying to make them orgasm.

One commenter found that final sentence to be a little confusing. Happily, other commenters were able to explain its implications to him.

Sumo94 9 points 2 months ago That last sentence is disheartening. So I should just be focusing on me busting a nut? permalinkembedsaveparentreportgive goldreply [–]LeykisP1 6 points 2 months ago Yes. permalinkembedsaveparentreportgive goldreply [–]UK_Garce 3 points 2 months ago Why else would you have sex? permalinkembedsaveparentreportgive goldreply [–]Sumo94 3 points 2 months ago To please her? permalinkembedsaveparentreportgive goldreply [–]wawakaka 5 points 2 months ago that's what i used to think...

MGTOW sexmaster ZCnegan went on to urge his fellow MGTOWs to avoid eating soy foods. And ass.

ZCnegan 2 points 2 months ago* ?? Do you remember when you are at the peak of your hormones in puberty? Or when you were at peak testosterone? You wouldnt see women as anything but sex objects. Thats your natural state of male sexuality. Similar to lions. It is modern society, estrogen foods, that makes men clingy. permalinkembedsaveparentreportgive goldreply [–]Sumo94 2 points 2 months ago Is that why eating ass is a thing now? What foods have estrogen? I feel like I have a lot of that bs permalinkembedsaveparentreportgive goldreply [–]ZCnegan 2 points 2 months ago in the sidebar of mgtow there is KETO. Google estrogen in foods. Remove soy, gluten, processed foods from your diet. Or just cut the head of the snake all together and go Keto.

ZCnegan 1 point 2 months ago Also. Anal sex is great. And it keeps women naturally submissive. Do not eat ass, unless you wanna end with all kinds of infections and diseases. If that really turns you on, at least do it while in the shower when she is the most clean. Is that why eating ass is a thing now? What foods have estrogen? Dont eat woman ass, its full of estrogen. Just kidding lol

I hope all you men reading this are taking notes. Ladies, you don’t need to write anything down. All you need to do in order to do the sex properly is to lie there motionless until you are given further instructions (re screaming, talking dirty, etc) by the appropriate dude.

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one of many
one of many
3 years ago

Any woman reading this might like to support a petition that men with this mindset get at least one free sex doll. They can programm that one any way they want and if they screw this one up – as obviously happens http://www.zdnet.com/article/sex-robot-molested-destroyed-at-electronics-show/ – they must pay for the next one themselves. But for guys with that mindset – the first one should be free. That might save a lot of women a lot of trouble and the guy is happy too when he can programm things to his likeing – obviously. A happy creep is at least a less agressive one.

Honestly – men who cannot understand the difference between humans and objects should be given the possibility to live in an object world.

Talonknife
Talonknife
3 years ago

“Why would I want sex to be fun?” – MGTOW, apparently.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
3 years ago

Sex dolls don’t deserve such a punishment.

I do hope MGTOW to disappear before this can be a long serie. Thoses guys are both painfully predictible, and yet chilling.

laserqueen
laserqueen
3 years ago

I would agree with that last sentence of ZCnegan’s. If I’m having sex with someone who is intent on “making” me orgasm, then it’s for darn sure it’s more about them scoring some kind of XP in their own head game than it is about any kind of mutual pleasure. And that’s definitely a deal breaker.

mywall
mywall
3 years ago

Has anyone thought to inform these “people” that sex doesn’t have to be with women. If you think a man will be better at it, go for it.

Button
Button
3 years ago

I would agree with that last sentence of ZCnegan’s. If I’m having sex with someone who is intent on “making” me orgasm, then it’s for darn sure it’s more about them scoring some kind of XP in their own head game than it is about any kind of mutual pleasure. And that’s definitely a deal breaker.

The further elaboration seems to indicate that they think caring at all about her pleasure is an active turn-off, though.

What this guy doesn’t get, though, is that he’s essentially admitted that he’s terrible at sex. He’s so bad at it, he can’t even get a woman off with cunnilingus.

Hippielady
Hippielady
3 years ago

My husband’s going to be awfully surprised that I’m not good at sex. O.o

LLama
LLama
3 years ago

*awkwardwave* I have personal experience of this 😮 Dude was extremely focused on avoiding anything that might make him feel less masculine. And he couldn´t stay hard unless I remained completely motionless, even relaxing my pelvic floor as much as humanly possible. I was young and stupid enough to do as he wished – hoping he´d feel comfortable enough for proper sex later. He didn´t. He did take me out to dinner afterwards because I´d been a good girl. Then he scolded me for having a hand on the table. Which he said was me trying to manipulate him into putting his hand on top of my hand. WTF dude?! O well: the food was good and I got away.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Whenever men say that women aren’t supposed to enjoy sex, we’re just supposed to lie there and wait for it to be over, I just assume that they’re terrible in bed and trying really hard to convince themselves themselves that this is not their own fault, just the natural state of affairs.

Button
Button
3 years ago

Also, what the fuck is this about the natural state of men being to see women as sex objects, and it’s only modern society & modern foods making men clingy?

The Odyssey, which most of us are at least exposed to the plot of before we leave high school, is all about a man taking more than a decade missing his wife and trying to get back to her. Nearly all literature that survives from before the 19th century was written by men, and how many of them include romance?

Hell, the entire genre of chivalric romance is about not seeing the woman you love as a sex object, and how much purer it is to love a woman you can never touch. Which has its own problems, but the point is, how the hell can you say that men having emotional attachments to women is a modern phenomenon?

PeeVee the Tired
PeeVee the Tired
3 years ago

Oh, well, my husband and I have have been doing it all wrong for two and a half decades.

Huh.

Thank you, MGTOWS! Thank you!

BoBali
BoBali
3 years ago

I’m good at the s-e-x. I know this because I monitor such things and ask my partners, and have a moderate (def larger than average) size pool of partners to draw from after years of navigating the singles’ scene, and I’m in my mid 40s. I have twenty five years or so of getting good at the s-e-x. I got skills. (lol)

You know what’s weird to me…? I was having orgasms as early as 12-13 yo by myself, as I had learned how to give myself an orgasm as a young teen and had a high libido drive in high school years. I had a couple of sexual partners in high school, one was a caring, intelligent guy who was my first sexual partner boyfriend of a few years, and when we would have intercourse we never stopped to ask ourselves anything along the lines of — “should the girl also be having an orgasm during het sex..?” My high school boyfriend meant well, but he had no precedent for wanting to give me pleasure, I had no precedent for expecting him to care about my orgasms.

Fast forward to college: I have my first orgasm with a partner when a wonderful fella by the name of Oxxx Hxxxxxxx went down on me after a frat party and gave me my first wonderful (!!!) experience of reaching orgasm through oral sex. I remember his name even though he wasn’t my boyfriend, just a friend, and we never “hooked up” again. He made quite an impression.

If only these silly MGTOWs knew how much a young woman appreciates a guy who will give her pleasure. If only they could stop hatin for a minute and want to please a woman sexually, to the point they overcome their fears and phobias. There are plenty of articles and porn available if they want to learn to give pleasure… but girls/women being so icky n all… I guess they don’t want to do that.

If they did give a gal a mind blowing orgasm, they wouldn’t need a sex doll because she’d be coming back around for that. 😉

Silly MGTOWs.

Verily Baroque
Verily Baroque
3 years ago

That’s just really pathetic. Honestly, I hope that he is a virgin, because otherwise there is some poor woman out there who had to suffer through a bout of unsatisfying sex with this ignoramus.

By the way, ironically enough, when I started reading this post, my playlist switched to a song about a woman recalling her awkward tinder date. 😀

Fishy Goat
Fishy Goat
3 years ago

Gah, I really hope those miggytoes are not into necrophilia. 😛 (Sorry, but that’s what the ‘stay completely still’ thing brings to mind – not sex dolls, oddly)

Bina's Little iPad Sock
Bina's Little iPad Sock
3 years ago

Dear migtoes, please just buy a Fleshlight. Or use your preferred hand.

Hey, it’ll do whatever you tell it to…and it will never tell you that you’re the one who’s bad in bed!

Dr. Thang
Dr. Thang
3 years ago

Either these guys are virgins or the prostitutes they hired really phoned it in. Those are the only two explanations for why they think women are supposed to just lie there motionless. I can’t imagine how that would be enjoyable anyway, I’d honestly rather just use my hand in that case. Besides, only a narcissistic virgin would think the point of sex is to “get off”, because if you can do that alone any time you want, why bother involving another person? Either way, this is a clear and desperate attempt to relieve the immense shame of being incapable of pleasing a woman.

MrBadAss
MrBadAss
3 years ago

Men adore women. It’s because of your breasts, softer skin, vaginas, little ears, long hair, smaller feet, lack of man stink, higher voices, delicate natures and feminine ways. We seek to protect you because you’re the weaker. Heterosexual men don’t love other men because…why would we when we have heterosexual women? We CisHets can’t help it really. Men really, really do love women. It’s a biological determinant. Men love women so much that they built, maintained, fought and died for nations in which to keep their women safe. Call us crazy. Men just want to have sex with you and for you to love men. Getting to know you is a bonus – because we live to ‘propagate the species’.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
3 years ago

I do think there is no shame in not being able to please another human. But if you can’t, or decide to not put enough effort to do it, then you should not bother with it at all.

Knitting Cat Lady
Knitting Cat Lady
3 years ago

So, according to these asshats sex is:

-not supposed to be fun for women
-only any good if the woman basically behaves like a sex doll
-only there for the man to get off

And they don’t want to do anything with women anyway.

So. These dudes have no clue about sex and have a serious case of sour grapes going on.

I’m asexual, mind you. Sex is something that happens to other people. It’s amazing how much these fuckheads obsess about sex while trying to convince themselves and the world that they don’t any…

And since I’m aromantic as well, I’m safe from running into one of these berks while looking for a partner.

I wonder if those dudes wear axe body spray…

They seem the type.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
3 years ago

@David:

All you need to do in order to do the sex properly is to lie there motionless until you are given further instructions (re screaming, talking dirty, etc) by the appropriate dude.

With MGTOWs, I suspect they could find many women willing to skip the sex altogether and go straight to the screaming obscenities part.

@Bacon:

Which has its own problems, but the point is, how the hell can you say that men having emotional attachments to women is a modern phenomenon?

They probably believe that everyone at the Round Table was constantly stuffing tofu into their quest-holes. How else can you explain all the jousting and oneitis over Lady Stacey Legbeard de Postwall?

frank travellin
frank travellin
3 years ago

Holy fuck, McTows. Just do a hit of K and get yourself to an all male orgy already.

Problems solved

EJ (The Other One)
3 years ago

They probably believe that everyone at the Round Table was constantly stuffing tofu into their quest-holes. How else can you explain all the jousting and oneitis over Lady Stacey Legbeard de Postwall?

This is the finest thing I’ve read all day.

RosieLa
RosieLa
3 years ago

@Dr. Thang none of the sex workers that I know would phone it in to this extent. Hell, the sex workers I know know to stay away from miggytoes for their (the worker’s) own safety!

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

@Knitting
*aroace fist bump*

@Thang

Besides, only a narcissistic virgin would think the point of sex is to “get off”, because if you can do that alone any time you want, why bother involving another person?

That’s… not remotely true. Like, at all. Lotta buncha hella non virgin dudes do think that way, lotta buncha hella virgin dudes don’t, narcissistic or otherwise . Having sex doesn’t make you a better, more empathetic person

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ Buttercup

I just adore your way with language.

Verily Baroque
Verily Baroque
3 years ago

@Buttercup

@David:

All you need to do in order to do the sex properly is to lie there motionless until you are given further instructions (re screaming, talking dirty, etc) by the appropriate dude.

With MGTOWs, I suspect they could find many women willing to skip the sex altogether and go straight to the screaming obscenities part.

Bravo! That was beautiful. 🙂

(A)utonomist Escapist
(A)utonomist Escapist
3 years ago

In my personal experience (anecdotal at best, I know), these statements bear no relation to reality. That makes me happy and hopeful for humanity. Maybe not for these guys. If they’re so set on going their own way, I think they need to go further, preferably into a rocketship heading for Sol.

Shadowplay
3 years ago

To an MGTOW, a woman moving during sex is obviously trying to escape.

Zaunfink
Zaunfink
3 years ago

My husband’s going to be awfully surprised that I’m not good at sex. O.o

I’ve taken to informing my fiance about the things he does wrong, especially in regards to sex, according to miggytoes and the like. He seems quite confused.
I have also tried to change my behaviour to be more female, like lying about not having baked when he told me I should rather relax. That only confuses him more.

I am getting the hunch that they may be talking bullshit.

Nequam
Nequam
3 years ago

Two-pump chumps, the lot of ’em.

calmdown
calmdown
3 years ago

So, according to these asshats sex is:

-not supposed to be fun for women
-only any good if the woman basically behaves like a sex doll
-only there for the man to get off

So what is the woman’s motive for participating in this activity? Something something submissive blah blah rape fantasy?

Orion
Orion
3 years ago

What do these men think counts as a “skill?” Is it only STEM training and management experience?

This is almost certainly the wrong thing to be focused on, but I can’t fathom who they think that screaming, talking dirty, or “being submissive” as directed doesn’t require skill.

I mean, there are people in Hollywood who have been paid hundreds of millions of dollars to scream when instructed to scream and say things they’re instructed to say.

Ohlmann
Ohlmann
3 years ago

@calmdown : I thinks thoses people don’t actually understand that there are other sentient creature beside themselves ; so they assume they work on some mysterious programming. Similar to how some hunter think that deers can’t suffer and ensure you that the aforementioned deers taunt them until they chase and kill them.

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
3 years ago

TIL:
Our troll doesn’t moisturize
Little ears are a specific turn on for some people. No shade to anyone who has em or who likes someone who has em, just didn’t know that
Ear and shoe size, stench levels, skin softness, voice register, etc must be rigidly weighed and measured. But vagina is vagina amirite?
The people most obsessed with defining and imposing femininity can’t be any more specific than… “ways”
Straight dudes are only straight, cos women are around. Anytime a guy goes without female interaction for, I dunno, a few weeks or so, he turns gay. I mean, that’s just science y’all
They would stop hunting the mammoth for you, but they literally can’t help themselves. Also women are weak
Women should love men, but don’t worry about actually getting to know the men you’re supposed to love. Just do it, cos species

Thanks, Ass. Happy to have learned from your lecture. Do I get a degree from the University of Assfax now too?

@Orion

I can’t fathom who they think that screaming, talking dirty, or “being submissive” as directed doesn’t require skill

Anything a feeemale does is easy, QED

Mooncustafer
Mooncustafer
3 years ago

What’s with these guys and lions? There are a lot of “lions mating” vids on YouTube (enough that I suspect it’s a kink for some people); and you know what you see a lot of? The male lion waiting until he’s sure the female is really interested:

Mooncustafer
Mooncustafer
3 years ago

What’s with these guys and lions? There are tons of lions-mating videos on YouTube (enough I suspect it’s a kink); and you generally see the lion waiting for the lioness to make it clear she’s interested:

calmdown
calmdown
3 years ago

Most of the Manosphere seems to be pretty obsessed with non-human animal mating habits in general, but only the cases that support their bogus theories. The whole “wolf hierarchy” thing has been largely debunked but the MRM still clings to it as %100 REAL SCIENCE. Women are also compared to the worst female behavior of the entire animal kingdom. I know some lady insects eat/kill their mates, ok? That doesn’t mean we’re all responsible for it, dude.

Bakunin
Bakunin
3 years ago

What about trans men and women? Should I expect my male skills to atrophy away? Is my friend suddenly more skilled than me? What sort of time frame does this happen in?

Oh right. Migtoes. So something something assfax, something something soy, blah blah birth control in the water.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Given that I’ve spent the last few weeks lifting my grandmother because she’s gotten too weak to get up off the toilet and couch on her own, I’m not feeling particularly soft and delicate right now. Traditional women’s work such as elder and child care, nursing, housework before modern conveniences etc. are all hard physical labor. Just as much as traditional men’s work. This myth that women are all soft and delicate and weak needs to die in a fire.

Sorry to burst your bubble, Mr Bad Ass. Your perception of women is not based on reality. You clearly need to see us as weak and childlike to feel good about yourself. But fetishizing us as pretty little damsels is not love. It’s objectification.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ mooncufaster

There are tons of lions-mating videos on YouTube

Heh, thank you for reminding me of this.

comment image

Pretty Pink Punnani Princess
Pretty Pink Punnani Princess
3 years ago

These men are obsessed with lions…male lions because it soothes their need to be these alpha kings, “king of the jungle.” Also, male lions seem to run some kind of harem while the lionesses seem to hunt for them and wait on them hand and foot, and they get first dibs at the food… which is what these men drool over. Lastly, lions represent pride and vanity… which these guys are disgustingly stuffed to the brim with.

Pretty Pink Punnani Princess
Pretty Pink Punnani Princess
3 years ago

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Remember when he said, “getting to know you is just a bonus?”
Not only do men like that not really want to get to know their mates in the first place, it shows they don’t love women at all. Getting to love and know them is a mere afterthought and a “maybe if I feeeeel like it,” kind of thing. You can’t love someone or something you don’t know about. It is all blind lust.
Funnily enough, he said that all men want women to do is love and adore them without question or wavering…. but they clearly do not love the woman. It is all as good as unrequited love, even if the woman loves the unattached dullard with all her heart. It takes two people for true love. Anything less is a sham. It’s a one-sided relationship where we should love, accept them and get to know them unconditionally… but they will never stoop as low as to do the same for us.

I really wish these men would just be honest in their more than obvious intentions. =.=
We all know it, everyone sees it, but you call it out, you are called soy-boy, feminazi or man-hater. Funnily enough, these same men admit their atrocities, and everything’s gucci.

Dr. Thang
Dr. Thang
3 years ago

@Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger

I think you kinda missed my point, which is that thinking of sex as nothing beyond you getting off while the other person just lies there is treating it no different than masturbation. It’s not about empathy, it’s about the other person being an active participant in some way, rather than just there.
But besides that, you’re right about that first part, plenty of non-virgin guys think of it that way too, but I didn’t back when I was a virgin and I still don’t.

Weasel-Rah
Weasel-Rah
3 years ago

I suspect that it’s because the male lion is a lazy user who lasts five seconds in the sack, but nobody questions his manliness. It’s what all the miggies aspire to.

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
3 years ago

@Llama, welcome! That sounds suuuper awkward and bewildering. I’m glad you got out of there, that sounds like a deftly dodged disaster.

@MrBadAss,

I’m gonna splice up your comment so that I can deal with it in parts!

Let me go get my knives.

Men adore women. It’s because of your breasts, softer skin, vaginas, little ears, long hair, smaller feet, lack of man stink, higher voices, delicate natures and feminine ways.

You love women for superficial appearance-reasons? For the way women look, and for the performance of traditional femininity? Instead of loving women for, you know, the person that they are?

You love women as long as they wedge themselves into the delicate flower-mold that society decrees they have to have?

No shit, Sherlock.

We seek to protect you because you’re the weaker.

Unless the specific woman in question doesn’t perform those feminine ways properly. Or if she isn’t appropriately delicate. Or obedient. Then she deserves it.

(psst, that’s called intimidation tactics)

Heterosexual men don’t love other men because…why would we when we have heterosexual women? We CisHets can’t help it really.

I’ll take “Tautology” for $500, Alex. What is, “failing to read the sarcasm?”

Men really, really do love women. It’s a biological determinant.

What you’ve done here is called the faulty generalization fallacy. Specifically, in the previous sentence you were talking about how cis-het men can’t help but have attraction to hetero women. In this sentence, you’ve generalized to all men, claiming that it’s a biological determinant. Your generalization carries your conclusion, because if all men are attracted to women, then it’s a determinant, but we know that’s not true, because we see your faulty generalization, and there are lots of types of men. Cis, Heterosexual men are one category only, and can’t claim the mantle of manhood as you seem to do here.

Men love women so much that they built, maintained, fought and died for nations in which to keep their women safe.

This is wrong on so many levels. Let me give you a few.

Third, history is notorious about erasing women from the record. It’s only been a few decades since women were even allowed to use their own first name in many documents without being thought of as wrong. We have such little evidence about women in history that historians – mostly men – make assumptions. Based on modern expectations. Just like you do.

Seventh, come off it. Men didn’t build society for women. People built society for people. I thought it was feminists who were supposed to be the ones unfairly dividing things up on gender lines?

14th, Women put in a huge amount of the work involved in the movement of society. Men generally swan about in suits and ties while women mop, cut, monitor and move things. And I don’t just mean babies and meals here. Women are well represented in the tiers of the work force that get-shit-done.

I can go on, but I don’t want to embarrass you. Gotta leave you something to do after all!

Call us crazy. Men just want to have sex with you and for you to love men. Getting to know you is a bonus – because we live to ‘propagate the species’.

Oh, that’s fun. Let’s see here. Naturalistic fallacy, Fundamental Attribution Error all over the place, Typical Mind fallacy, Begging the Question, Mind Projection fallacy… I mean, you could be more wrong, but to compress all that into such a small space really is something else.

I won’t bother pulling that block apart because I doubt you’re going to come back. Gotta leave you something to look forward to after all!

Fluffy Spider
Fluffy Spider
3 years ago

@MrBadAss
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but those are your preferences. One of my My good exes appreciates me because I’m not delicate or act traditional. He liked my grit and assertiveness

Ace
Ace
3 years ago

@Pretty Pink And that always makes me laugh, too! Male lions don’t generally eat first. Since females are the ones who hunt and get prey, they will eat first until the male/s arrive, and then allow them to the food. Lower females and cubs are last.

Beyond that I’m going, Okay, I’m not very active in bed, but not moving at all? You know how much muscle control is required to not move AT ALL? That would absolutely require skill and iron control.

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