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Red Pillers: Stop looking to gorillas for dating advice. Embrace the banana slug instead

The Anglerfish: If you like Pina Coladas, and fusing with a much larger female and basically turning into a dangly appendage that provides her with sperm

By David Futrelle

Pickup artists and Men’s Rights Activists and other reactionary misogynists love to claim that their retrograde ideas about human “mating strategy” have been proven 100% awesome and correct by SCIENCE. By SCIENCE, of course, they generally mean a simplified version of evolutionary psychology based on “just so stories” about our human ancestors and assorted studies of animals that supposedly prove the eternal truth that alphas rule and betas drool.

Consider, for example, one recent defense of “toxic masculinity” posted on Psychology Today and then reposted by Men’s Rights hate site A Voice for Men. In “Is toxic masculinity a valid concept?” Concordia University marketing professor and Evo Psych maven Gad Saad declares that

For sexually reproducing species including humans, evolution has endowed males and females with universal mating preferences that map onto sex-specific recurring challenges faced by each sex during our evolutionary history. This is profoundly obvious to anyone with a grade 8 level understanding of human biology and human psychology.

Ladies in “sexually reproducing species,” it seems, are hard-wired to love big burly dudes.

Female fiddler crabs and hens prefer males with extravagantly large claws and tails respectively.  Ewes (female rams) will mate with the ram that wins the brutal intrasexual head-butting contest.  They reward targeted aggression by granting sexual access. 

Crabs also live underwater and have a seafood diet that includes sea urchins, sand dollars, barnacles, and algae. But never mind.

Needless to say, there are innumerable other examples of sexual selection that I might describe but I suspect that you get the general gist.  Are rams exhibiting toxic masculinity?  Are female fiddler crabs succumbing to antiquated notions of masculinity as promulgated by the crab patriarchy?

I’m going to say “yes” to that first question, as rams can do pretty severe damage to one another with all that head-butting.

Let’s now apply the exact same evolutionary process (sexual selection) to humans.  Evolutionary psychologists have documented universal patterns of mating preferences that are invariant across time and place.  In no culture ever studied have women repeatedly preferred to mate with pear-shaped low-status tepid men possessing high-pitched nasal voices. 

As a pear-shaped — well, more apple-shaped — low-status tepid man, I do fine, actually, but never mind.

In no documented culture do women’s sexual fantasies revolve around granting sexual access to unemployed unambitious men who occupy the lowest stratum of the social hierarchy.  Instead, women are attracted to “toxic masculine” male phenotypes that correlate with testosterone, and they are desirous of men who are socially dominant, are strategically risk-taking in their behaviors, and who exhibit patterns of behaviors that will allow them to ascend the social hierarchy and defend their positions from encroachers.

Other Red Pill thinkers also look to the animal kingdom for lessons on human sexuality, most often citing gorillas and chimps, which are genetically very similar to humans if a bit hairier.

Our old friend Heartiste, the floridly racist PUA guru, regularly turns to studies of other primates to understand what he calls the “renowned human female mate preference for jerkboys of varying jerkitude.” In one post, he recounted an experiment he claimed to have conducted in which he did his best impression of an especially macho gorilla to see how women reacted to this primal stimulus.

For shits and remotely activated tingles, I decided to try out the MAXIMUM ALPHA MALE MODE walking style in a beautiful baby zoo near you.

I walked about town like a guy who [had] absorbed a piece of gorilla DNA …

Result: After an hour or so performing the “here are my steely balls, ladies, feast your eyes” gait, I can conclusively say that a lot… no, a WHOLE LOT… of women tossed me lascivious stares. Not “what is this weird guy doing?” looks; real hardcore “i want… i need… to get to know this man” stares.

Ok, there were a couple of “who’s the weirdo?” looks, but most were definitely in the “checking him out” camp.

In the Red Pill subreddit, someone called SkorchZang offered his scientific assessment of ape sex.

I‘m always deeply touched when watching a documentary about apes and there’s some mating scene or something going on. Typically the male is what you’d expect, he’s humping away, working it, it feels good and he’s just focused in on that. But the female, man! They actually use their wrinkly monkey faces to make the exact same “porn faces” that human women will put on. You know the face, that “oh you dirty big fucking fucker, you… fucking me all bent over like that when you know that’s not very nice!” kind of face. With the eyes and everything. Hilarious display of the raw natural hunger for male domination that TRP often talks about and taps into.

But is a “hunger for male domination” really this universal? Even amongst those species that value male alphatude in matters of the heart and loin, things are a bit more complicated than the Red Pill alpha male myths.

Amongst  rhesus macaques, for example, “younger females often sneak off to mate with males lower down on the dominance hierarchy,” according to a guide to primate behavior put together by  behavioral scientist Dennis O’Neil of Palomar College. Male chimps, meanwhile, prefer mating with older females instead of the nubile young lady chimps that Red Pill ideology would suggest they’d go for instead.

But this isn’t the main thing wrong with Red Pillers’ fetishization of animal studies as a guide to human sexual desires and behavior. The biggest problem? There are 7.77 million species of animals on our little planet. Red Pillers (and Evo Psych enthusiasts generally) cherry-pick a tiny handful whose behavior seems to best match with their crude “alphas rule, betas drool” vision of the world. But the mating behavior of many species bears little or no resemblance to what we humans do.

Consider, for example, our fellow social mammal the spotted hyena. Given their infamous aggressiveness, you might assume spotted hyena society to be lorded over by the alpha males who can bite and laugh the hardest. Not exactly. Female spotted hyenas like their men meek. As Wikipedia notes,

Males will show submissive behaviour when approaching females in heat, even if the male outweighs his partner. Females usually favour younger males … Passive males tend to have greater success in courting females than aggressive ones.

Oh, and did I mention that female hyenas have fake dicks?

The mating process is complicated, as the male’s penis enters and exits the female’s reproductive tract through her pseudo-penis rather than directly through the vagina, which is blocked by the false scrotum and testes. These unusual traits make mating more laborious for the male than in other mammals, while also ensuring that rape is physically impossible.

Things get even weirder when we move beyond the mammals. Fenale fiddler crabs may prefer macho lovers with huge … claws. Praying Mantis and Black Widow females like men they can literally eat (though in practice they eat their former lovers far less than the urban legends suggest).

If death at the hands of your insect (or arachnid) lover sounds unappealing, consider the horrific fate faced by male anglerfish after they get jiggy with it in their own weird way. As Wired notes, in many species of anglerfish, those hideously ugly denizens of the very deep,

[f]emales are so large and in charge that the much smaller males don’t even look like [they’re from] the same species. A male will bite onto his lady friend, then fuse his face to her body. He lives the rest of his days like this, releasing sperm when she releases eggs. That little bump at the back of her belly? That’s her husband.

Were Anglerfish capable of producing rom-coms, Wired wryly observes,

Every single movie would go a little something like this: Boy meets girl, boy bites girl, boy’s mouth fuses to girl’s body, boy lives the rest of his life attached to girl sharing her blood and supplying her with sperm. Ah, a tale as old as time.

While male anglerfish may be the ultimate omegas, male seahorses aren’t far behind. As most of us learned back in grade school, it’s the male seahorse that gets “pregnant” after being pumped full of eggs by a female who deserts him immediately afterwards. Here’s what a hot date looks like for these horsefaced creatures, according to Wikipedia:

During a “true courtship dance” lasting about 8 hours … the male pumps water through the egg pouch on his trunk which expands and opens to display its emptiness” in an attempt to impress his would-be mate. If his egg-pouch flapping gets his target female in the mood,

she and her mate let go of any anchors and drift upward snout-to-snout, out of the seagrass, often spiraling as they rise. They interact for about 6 minutes, reminiscent of courtship. The female then swims away until the next morning [when she] inserts her ovipositor into the male’s brood pouch and deposits dozens to thousands of eggs. … Both animals then sink back into the seagrass and she swims away.

Talk about being pumped and dumped!

Even amongst those species in which the ladies seem to prefer the most macho lovers the betas often manage to get some action as well. Consider the cuttlefish. As Wikipedia explains,

Male cuttlefish challenge one another for dominance and the best den during mating season. … The animals will threaten each other until one of them backs down and swims away. Eventually, the larger male cuttlefish mate with the females by grabbing them with their tentacles, turning the female so that the two animals are face-to-face, then using a specialized tentacle to insert sperm sacs into an opening near the female’s mouth. 

But lower-status cuttlefish have a sneaky trick up their many sleeves — turning themselves into ladylike “sneaker males” to fool their macho rivals into giving them access to the cuttlefish equivalent of a HB 10.

[S]maller cuttlefish will use their camouflage abilities to disguise themselves as a female cuttlefish. Changing their body color, concealing their extra arms (males have four pairs, females only have three), and even pretending to be holding an egg sack, disguised males are able to swim past the larger guard male and mate with the female.

But my favorite animal sex-havers have to be banana slugs. Slugs in general, Wikipedia explains,

are hermaphrodites, having both female and male reproductive organs. Once a slug has located a mate, they encircle each other and sperm is exchanged through their protruded genitalia. …

In the banana slugs, the penis is trapped inside the body of the partner. Apophallation allows the slugs to separate themselves by one or both of the slugs chewing off the other’s or their own penis. 

Fucking hardcore.

If Red Pillers and PUAs really want to impress the world with their badass no-fucks-given attitude, I’d suggest they stop taking their cues not from gorillas but from these slimy, yellow, penis-shaped penis-chewers.

H/T — Thanks to all those Tweeters who provided me with many excellent examples of Blue Pilled animal species. And check out Humon’s Animal Lives book for even more examples, helpfully illustrated.

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Dave
Dave
2 years ago

A bunch of guys tell women what kind of guys women like. I can’t imagine the arrogance that takes. Don’t forget about bonobos. Matriarchal apes.

Austin Loomis
2 years ago

[MGTOWs] have more genes in common with crabs than they do with you and me. Now that’s a scientific fact: there’s no real evidence for it, but it is scientific fact.

With apologies to Chris Morris and the contemplation of apologies to Dr Neil Fox.

epronovost
epronovost
2 years ago

If we look only at humans, around 85% of women have at least one child during their lifetime. At the same time, around 85% of men have at least one child during their lifetime. These numbers have been pretty stable during the entire human history. This, to me, demonstrate that there is practically no sexual selection for male (or female) mates. While one might be considered more desirable, beautiful or accomplished than another based on a variety of factor, many of which who might be linked to cultural and personnal preferences, most people go for what’s available and stick with it for a surprisingly long period of time. In other words and as my grand-mother used to say: “every mop finds its bucket”. Ironically, some studies have suggested that particularly beautiful and successful people were less likely to have numerous relationships and less children than the average population simply because they have too much choices which impeed any decision process (and maintaining a high status and image is already extremely time consuming).

Zaunfink
Zaunfink
2 years ago

Ladies in “sexually reproducing species,” it seems, are hard-wired to love big burly dudes.

yeah. That’s why no women thinks David Tennant is hot. Or Bendelson Cucumberpatch.

As a pear-shaped — well, more apple-shaped — low-status tepid man, I do fine, actually, but never mind.

You don’t understand. It is because you are apple-shaped.
An apple a day keeps the doctor away. They’re just using you.

Makroth - cowboy Jacobin from Hell
Makroth - cowboy Jacobin from Hell
2 years ago

comment image

One weird trick (that no human actually has).

Schnookums Von Ghostface Fancypants Killer
Schnookums Von Ghostface Fancypants Killer
2 years ago

@Zaunfink

That Cummerbund Bandersnatch is pretty sexy.

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
2 years ago

Typically the male is what you’d expect, he’s humping away, working it, it feels good and he’s just focused in on that. But the female, man! They actually use their wrinkly monkey faces to make the exact same “porn faces” that human women will put on. You know the face, that “oh you dirty big fucking fucker, you… fucking me all bent over like that when you know that’s not very nice!” kind of face. With the eyes and everything.

Is… is this dude fantasizing with monkey sex? Or is it just my impression? There’s something off with this paragraph, but I can’t exactly point to what.

Button
Button
2 years ago

This is profoundly obvious to anyone with a grade 8 level understanding of human biology and human psychology.

A lot of false things seem obvious to anyone with an 8th-grade level understanding of human biology and psychology. Like that vaccines cause autism, and there’s no such thing as too much water, and the way to cure depression is by thinking happy thoughts.

In no documented culture do women’s sexual fantasies revolve around granting sexual access to unemployed unambitious men who occupy the lowest stratum of the social hierarchy.

…I thought you were aware that some women fantasize about “bad boys”? You know, unemployed, unambitious delinquents, who just want to be free on the open road, man?

Or is this circular logic, and anyone who women find desirable are by definition not part of the lowest stratum of the social hierarchy?

Ok, there were a couple of “who’s the weirdo?” looks, but most were definitely in the “checking him out” camp.

You keep telling yourself that.

Re: animals, while you picked some great examples, I think it’s worth noting that even among our apes, there are some great counterexamples. I mean, bonobos will fuck practically anyone.

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
2 years ago

Ewes (female rams)

Female sheep, oh Sciencey One. FFS.

@Diego
It certainly seems that way. I noticed this:

Typically the male is what you’d expect, he’s humping away, working it, it feels good and he’s just focused in on that.

“What you’d expect…it feels good and he’s just focused on that.”

They’re even projecting their piss poor bedroom techniques onto those monkeys.

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
2 years ago

…I thought you were aware that some women fantasize about “bad boys”? You know, unemployed, unambitious delinquents, who just want to be free on the open road, man?

If that’s their definition of a bad boy then I dunno. Check out the comment section for a lyric video of TLC’s song “Scrubs.” Hoooooly shit the whining from man children claiming that the singers are bitches for “not wanting to give a broke guy a chance.” That’s not what a scrub is, douchebros! It gives the definition quite plainly in the opening verse.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Instead, women are attracted to “toxic masculine” male phenotypes that correlate with testosterone

Like hairy chests and backs or male pattern baldness?

Not that I’m ragging on men who are hairy or who are going bald, but when you think conventionally attractive man, you think a full head of hair and either a smooth chest and back or minimal hair on the chest and “treasure trail” leading from the belly button to the pelvis.

tim gueguen
2 years ago

Hate to break it to them(not really), but a large number of cultures across history have had arranged marriages. It didn’t matter what fantasy lover the people involved wanted, their parents and other elders arranged for them to marry specific people, based on how it would benefit their families. So the hottie down the road didn’t marry you no matter how hot you were, she married that guy with no chin and the flabby gut, because doing so would ensure access to more farmland. And that’s even before we get talking about things like class barriers. Or that many people didn’t travel more than a few kilometers from their home, ever, so if the other locals were all ugly, too bad, that’s who your potential partners were.

Button
Button
2 years ago

@sunnysombrera

I was referring more to like, the archetype James Dean made a career playing.

barsofgolde
barsofgolde
2 years ago

“Hilarious display of the raw natural hunger for male domination”

If a lady monkey has decided to do the dirty with a gentleman monkey how does that constitute him dominating her? Some of these guys have a strange notion of the nature of sexual relations.

sunnysombrera
sunnysombrera
2 years ago

@Button

Ahhhh gotcha.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
2 years ago

I walked about town like a guy who [had] absorbed a piece of gorilla DNA

http://fscomps.fotosearch.com/compc/FSD/FSD541/x17041790.jpg

Andrew
Andrew
2 years ago

People. People. If you click through, you will discover dude has a semi-eponymous YouTube channel called…”The Saad Truth.” MUCH HAY MUST BE MADE OF THIS.

Lukas Xavier
Lukas Xavier
2 years ago

Are rams exhibiting toxic masculinity?

Well, since rams and humans differ quite extraordinarily on the question of social organization and interactions, and since “toxic masculinity” is a concept relating to social behavior, I’d argue that this question demonstrates only that the person asking should re-examine their premises.

TL/DR:
You’re full of shit.

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
2 years ago

I am also boggling at the “female ram” designation. Though it did make me think of Joanna Russ’ novel The Female Man, which is one of those landmark SF novels I will read at some point.

Lucrece
Lucrece
2 years ago

Thanks David – a really interesting bunch of factoids in this post. I feel like I always learn something from your blog!

Ewes (female rams) will mate with…

Except for these guys. They don’t know shit.

Take this for example:

I walked about town like a guy who [had] absorbed a piece of gorilla DNA

Has he actually seen a gorilla walking? I mean, we have YouTube and David Attenborough, so it’s not like one has to travel to Africa to observe them. Since I’m guessing he hasn’t, I’m also guessing he didn’t walk around town on his knuckles. Hell’s bells! Even the emoji makers know how a gorilla 🦍 walks! But this guy? He was probably walking groin-first – because teh laydeez loves checking out any random guy’s meat-and-two-veg. (Well, okay, some women probably do like to do that. I don’t judge. You do you.)

Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent + Bard of the New Movement
Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent + Bard of the New Movement
2 years ago

The strength of a gorilla
The lion’s willing force
The DEX score of a monkey
And the wiener of a horse

That’s all that is claimed
But here’s all that re-evaluated and re-gamed

The demureness of the hyena
The glint of the junebug
The delectability of the mantis
And the hermaphroditic genitalia of the banana slug

Sylvia Daniella Foxglove
Sylvia Daniella Foxglove
2 years ago

And people wonder why I don’t consider Psychology Today a reliable source.

calmdown
calmdown
2 years ago

@Zaunfink

That’s why no women thinks David Tennant is hot. Or Bendelson Cucumberpatch.

I’m assuming those women would be dismissed as “lower-status” females (aka cat-having fat feminists). These types are attracted to beta males (or at least claim that they are).

PaganReader - Misandrist Spinster

Someone should point out the size of a gorilla’s penis to these dudes. (It’s tiny. [1.5 inches/4 cm erect])
comment image
From the itty bitty kitty committee

EverythingIsRidiculous
EverythingIsRidiculous
2 years ago

Yeah, I’ve seen dudes strutting about with the silverback gorilla gait. Often it’s bodybuilders wearing tight pants who like to delude themselves that they can’t walk normally because of the immense size of their thighs. I mentally add ‘squeaking crushed balls’ sound effects when I see them. Bless their hearts.

Catalpa
Catalpa
2 years ago

Clearly these guys have no idea how mating works. Humans are just like honeybees, you see. These guys obviously only have no luck attracting females because they are pursuing sterile ‘worker’ females. What they need to do is find a virgin ‘queen’ female, just like they’re always talking about, and mate with her. And then have their penis be ripped off mid-flight to leave it within the queen, and die almost immediately afterwards because ripping off their penis tore open their entire abdomen.

Jeez, it’s like no one paid attention during sex ed. /sarcasm

Knitting Cat Lady
Knitting Cat Lady
2 years ago

I work under this assumption:

If I read the words evo psych I dismiss everything that follows as false.

Hasn’t let me down yet.

Also:

‘red pill thinkers’

There is no such thin.

Jaygee
Jaygee
2 years ago

When people make generalizations about sex, behaviors, and animals, I like to think about serially hermaphroditic limpets. They start out life as male and become female as they age. What kind of insight does that give us about human sexuality? People would have to go “post-wall” before they could be hot babes (though their idea of hitting the wall makes even less sense than normal here).

Zaunfink
Zaunfink
2 years ago

@calmdown

Uh-oh. But then the media actually caters to such women! How dare it!

They really have a a piece of stupid for everything, don’t they.

Shadowplay
2 years ago

Dunno why – they’re ideas are invariably ridiculous and full of shit – but it’s this manosphere idea I can’t even.

And yon dude is definitely watching monkey porn in his spare time.

reimalebario
reimalebario
2 years ago

I ran 8 km through London in a gorilla costume in 2011 (along with about 7-800 others). We did get some stares but none of them struck me as particularly come-hitherish. And one woman that I didn’t know walked up to talk to me but just to ask where the start line was.
(I found myself on this picture on Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/tommyajohansson/6177320373/in/faves-43198013@N00/ – Rowr!)

Dvärghundspossen
Dvärghundspossen
2 years ago

“Toxic masculine male phenotypes” WTF does this even mean? Even if we suppose for the sake of argument that lots of testosterone causes men to develop conventionally attractive and also conventionally thought of as manly-male looks, like wide strong chins, symmetrical faces and also, of course, lots of muscle, how can that be TOXIC!? How TF can the way someone LOOKS be part of toxic masculinity?

You keep using that term. I don’t think it means what you think it means.

Pie
Pie
2 years ago

Probably relevant: https://mobile.nytimes.com/2004/04/13/science/no-time-for-bullies-baboons-retool-their-culture.html

I haven’t checked the source and the article is quite old now but it is interesting nonetheless.

(tldr: dominant males in baboon troop all die off, resulting cultural change makes troop a less stressful and violent place)

Shadowplay
2 years ago

In other news that people have been posting on:

The Austin bomber is dead.

I won’t spoil the “surprise.”

Dan Kasteray
Dan Kasteray
2 years ago

To Diego Duarte:

From my understanding, Heartiste seems to be insanely jealous of monkeys/apes who are having sex.

Or he’s genuinely angry that female monkeys/apes seem to be enjoying sex since he thinks they have pornstar expressions. . . whatever the hell that means.

Or, Heartiste is a festering human shit stain.

I don’t know. You be the judge.

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
2 years ago

@Shadowplay
Yeah, no surprise there.

Thanks for posting that. Locals will no doubt be relieved that their nightmare is over.

Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
2 years ago

WWTH:

Like hairy chests and backs or male pattern baldness?

Sciencebros think the main effect of high testosterone is male pattern boldness.

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
2 years ago

Ok, there were a couple of “who’s the weirdo?” looks

This is the most truthful I’ve ever known Heartiste to be. You go, guy! It’s a start!

Of course, his math is totally off.

Here’s the real math, which I base on my years lived as a woman and observation of the world around me:

Ok, they were all “who’s the weirdo?” looks

Shadowplay
2 years ago

I tried out the “gorrilla swagger” thing mentioned while making breakfast.

Partner asked me if I were constipated today.

Not a success, in other words. 😛

Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
2 years ago

Dvärghundspossen:

How TF can the way someone LOOKS be part of toxic masculinity?

It doesn’t indeed make any sense – which is probably a big reason why sciencebros like to conflate any and all masculine coded traits with each other. That way, you can insinuate that the idea of “toxic masculinity” is an attack on general masculinity, and that it’s an idea that generally doesn’t make much sense.

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
2 years ago

@Dan Kasteray

Heartiste is a festering human shit stain.

Yes, a festering human shit stain is annoying — but comparing it to Heartiste?! Have you lost all sense of proportion? You owe an apology to human shit stains. It’s not their fault if they’re festering. Heartiste, on the other hand —

decagon
decagon
2 years ago

lol Gad Saad.

I have the impression that that dude is a buffoon. He wrote some article on, uh, I think three reasons why people listen to celebrities for medical advice – like Jenny McCarthy on vaccines. I think the first reason might’ve made sense to me IDK, but the second one was “celebrities are narcissistic” and the third one was postmodernism because… something about expertise no longer being trusted? It’s been a while bear with me, haha.

Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
2 years ago

And check out Humon’s Animal Lives book for even more examples, helpfully illustrated.

Those are brilliantly illustrative, adorable and frankly quite sexy 🙂

See also this:

http://mediaaopeille.blogspot.fi/2013/05/kuva-analyysi.html

Near the bottom of the page is an iconic Finnish painting depicting capercaillie lek in forest (by Ferdinand von Wright, 1886).

At the top is a 2013 mod by comic artist Kari Korhonen, advertising the Aku Ankka comic magazine (literally “Donald Duck”, hugely popular in Finland)

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
2 years ago

@Jaygee:

When people make generalizations about sex, behaviors, and animals, I like to think about serially hermaphroditic limpets. They start out life as male and become female as they age. What kind of insight does that give us about human sexuality?

Why, that human males are immature, of course, something all human females know and frequently comment on. 🙂

@Dvärghundspossen:

How TF can the way someone LOOKS be part of toxic masculinity?

Simple: testosterone is, apparently, toxic to hair follicles, so the answer is, male pattern baldness! (Cue dinging noises, flashing lights, and some kind of prize being awarded while the host comments something about “those of you playing along with the home game”.)

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
2 years ago

RedPillers: Men invented civilization, the greatest thing ever. Bow down and worship us!

Also RedPillers: To hell with civilization. Everyone would be better off behaving like the animals we truly are.

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
2 years ago

I wonder how these guys would explain same-sex behaviours, recorded & observed in many types of animal, including penguins and giraffes.
(I actually don’t wonder, obv)

The image of Heartiste strutting around gorilla-style with his steel balls had me giggling all day. The levels of pathetic were on par with Cernovich claiming that people hating on him were just jealous because “I’m good at Twitter”.
And that chap who gets all the feels watching apes having sex … that’s a very revealing comment there, my friend.

@Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)

For a second there I thought you’d gotten married…
But what happened to Arctic Ape?

EJ (The Other One)
2 years ago

@decagon:

and the third one was postmodernism because… something about expertise no longer being trusted? It’s been a while bear with me, haha.

Expertise no longer being trusted is a real and worrying problem in the modern day, but it seems weird to blame postmodernism for it. I wouldn’t have thought that Jenny McCarthy had read Foucault, let alone Baudrillard or Derrida. She may as well blame necromancers.

A lot of the dudes I’ve seen blame it on postmodernism seem to be disciples of Jordan Peterson (or at least Peterson-adjacent.) I wonder if he’s the Ur-source for the anti-postmodernist thoughtline amongst anti-SJWs?

Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
Lumipuna (nee Arctic Ape)
2 years ago

EJ, I just heard that “postmodernism” is the new “cultural marxism”.

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
2 years ago

Re expertise no longer being trusted – e.g. Voxiversity, anyone?
But most people who decry the evils of postmodernism haven’t actually read any; it’s just a catch-all term for the Evils of Teh Modern Times.
(disclosure: fully paid-up member of Foucault fan club here, *sob*).
It’s funny that feminist theory went through this debate around 20 years ago (is postmodernism or poststructuralism a problem or a blessing?), but Peterson et al. are only going on about it now.
Also, the more I see of Peterson the more he reminds me of Camille Paglia, with his archetypes and nature and cosmic bloody masculine shite. Are we stuck in a loop or something?

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