By David Futrelle
Lefty media site Unicorn Riot, which is doing a bang-up job exposing the so-called alt-right — recently obtained a virtual treasure trove of chat logs and audio files in which members of Patriot Front, a self-described “American fascist” group that split off from Vanguard America last year, talk about how much they hate Jews and love guns and all the assorted other things that the shithead Nazis of today like to talk about.
Some of the most hair-raising discussions in this vast pile of terrible concern one group of human beings that the current generation of Nazis especially hate: women. Nazis and white supremacists have always been sexist, but in the past their sexism always had a paternalistic side to it. Nazis and Klansmen claimed to want to protect and even celebrate white women, and many women found this appealing. In the 1920s, the women’s auxilliary of the KKK had a half million members.
The alt-right of today, by contrast, is overwhelmingly male — and overwhelmingly misogynistic, with an anti-woman ideology not that far removed from your average incel.
Take a listen to how these guys talk about women when they think no one is paying attention. If anything, their comments are even worse than the descriptions below suggest.
(Content advisory: sexual assault)
Patriot Front members are told that in an American ethnostate, rape is OK "as long as you're raping.. your own race." "Ethnostate rape gangs" would target unmarried white women who didn't adhere to "traditional values" https://t.co/lEVX6Izuzn pic.twitter.com/nIoL9skbNn— UNICORN RIOT (@UR_Ninja) March 5, 2018
In the recorded Discord voice meeting, Patriot Front members expand on their vision of 'White Sharia' in America. They discuss a desire to return to gender roles from the 1890s & share their admiration for Hitler's family planning policies in Nazi Germany https://t.co/lEVX6Izuzn pic.twitter.com/f5dqQCFCyB
— UNICORN RIOT (@UR_Ninja) March 5, 2018
It’s probably not much of a surprise that these guys are also violently homophobic.
Patriot Front's vision of 'White Sharia' also involves an extremely homophobic component. The only gay people that would be allowed to live in their American ethnostate would be those who "don't ever speak about it" https://t.co/lEVX6Izuzn pic.twitter.com/VqsB3RSOSp
— UNICORN RIOT (@UR_Ninja) March 5, 2018
Check out the rest of this twitter thread to hear the Patriot Front boys’ thoughts on the relative merits of different guns, the alleged racist evil of Black Lives Matter, and their alt-right rivals The Traditionalist Workers Party.
For more on the brief but still pretty awful history of Patriot Front, check out Unicorn Riot’s feature on the group, which also contains links to UR’s archives of the 26,0000 Discord messages they, er, obtained from these lovely lady hating fascists.
I accidentally screwed up putting my email moderators on my last comment may I restate it?
My particular slice of the techbro world isn’t too bad at the moment! I work from home, so I only have to deal with occasional face to face and skype. There are other issues, but it’s nowhere near the hell of working oil and gas. Pipefitters can be awful. I started my schooling while I was up there as a way to escape that hellhole, and I’m very glad I did.
Techbro sexism is less blatant, but more patronizing, I find. Aggression gets a lot more respect up there; in the tech world being aggressive just gets you a reputation of being irrational. Same nonsense, different expressions. That’s probably why they think they aren’t sexist – their expressions are more patronizing. More pedestal sexism and less catcalling sexism. I dunno.
Neuroscience is still pretty ridiculous as soon as it leaves the academic sphere! Phrenology is alive and well, it’s just called “fMRI studies” now. Racists and douchebags use the size of brain regions to support their shitty ideologies, just like the Nazis did with skull shapes. In the literature itself there’s generally a lot of statements about not having evidence to link brain region differences with behaviour (because you can’t do that) but the moment it leaves the white papers? Neuroscience becomes basically everything the GamerGaters, MRAs, Fascists, and other assorted assholes believe. It’s utter garbage.
I’m looking at you, Sam Fucking Harris.
And yeah, the rich assholes include women and minorities. I’d probably point out that it’s mostly men, though, and I’d be interested in seeing how many rich women are participating in this alt-right project. Minorities can certainly join the other team, though, if they have the money for it.
@Edit: Fluffy Spider! You can absolutely change your email address, but it’ll have to go through moderation again, and you’ll need to go to Gravatar to reset there, too. Otherwise, yes, you can change that!
I saw why it didnt post correctly before finally I typed N instead M at the end of Com
Anyhoo here’s my original comment
@Mish
Your kitteh is beautiful :D. No one could overshare cat pictures in mind they’re majestic purring creatures. She looks sweet too.
So true. So true.
Sam Fucking Harris is one of the two people whom I am ashamed to say I’ve bought books by (the other being Michael Shermer.) He’s always been awful, but as movement-atheism has become less of a coherent thing, he’s shifted even more towards the awful-people faction.
I think a lot of impressionable, lonely, malsocialised, intelligent young men in our system come into adulthood looking for an older mentor figure who combines a rebellious swagger with an authoritative manner and a set of easy answers. It’s why Harris and his ilk (looking at you, Jordan Peterson) are such magnets for the lost boys of our generation. They suck them in and teach them to be assholes.
A decade ago, someone said that we have a god-shaped hole in our minds. I’m starting to think that we have a priest-shaped hole instead.
It’s kind of funny how misogynists accuse women of being herd animals, followers, slaves to fashion. Not like alpha males who are so rational and independent minded. Yet these so called independent and ultra rational men are the ones who are most likely to get sucked into a cult of personality. They are so much more devoted to Donald Trump, Richard Dawkins, Paul Elam or whoever than any woman I’ve ever met has ever been devoted to anyone.
@Scild
Interesting input. I hadn’t really thought at all about the impact marketing had regarding the shift on journalism, but it does make sense now that you state it. And as other professionals have put it before, marketing is a more conservative dominated field, so it just goes to show they had an advantage there to begin with.
@KatieKitten420
I’d also like to pitch in some with some thoughts, regarding this brand of misogyny and sexism.
As a person who lived his childhood during the 90s, an era which was essentially a boom for entertainment and in which TVs were nearly ubiquitous, video games were the new rave and anime was starting to make it’s first impression on the West; I can attest that most forms of entertainment, geared towards boys my age, completely reinforced conservative ideas and expectations for boys and girls.
It was always about playing the hero, rescuing some princess, and living happily ever after. In the video game industry, the fact that you often got to play the hero, the “chosen one” offered a specially tempting level of abstraction that wasn’t available previously with books.
My take on this is that this industry boom fostered all these expectations for all these kids that grew up during this era. It also didn’t help that gaming was considered a male activity too. You essentially had a bunch of kids, feeding off of sexist stereotypes, and feeding off of each other’s thoughts on the subject.
Anime didn’t help much, given that it had a visual appeal western cartoons didn’t have, and also because female characters always played some sort of submissive or supportive role. They were also highly sexualized, in ways that weren’t even on par with western animation. There were notable exceptions, but it wasn’t the general rule.
Then these men took these expectations out to the real world, and found out firsthand that they were NOT the hero, they thought themselves to be, they were NOT the nice guys, and they were NOT entitled to women. They grew frustrated.
Then the 2008 crisis happened and, for many, this blew away any chance at affordable housing or even starting a nuclear family (not that anyone in their right minds would go for someone who would, at best, act in the most patronizing way towards women).
These people looked for the first culprit they could find as to why they weren’t finding the sweet, demure, pretty girls they had been promised since childhood, and they found a common enemy in feminism. A movement that, at least in their view, ridiculed their efforts and turned women into assertive and hostile people. A movement dedicated to tearing down the gender roles they had been taught they had been entitled to their whole lives.
If you look at it through the lens, were these people consider themselves the protagonist of their own tragic tale, then the MRA movement starts to make “sense“. It’s always about victimizing themselves and whining how hard men have it, as opposed to women, who only have to play the part of the damsel in distress.
I could be entirely in the wrong here, but I think that there is something that can be explored in that angle.
@Diego Duarte
re;anime
I feel like the import filter was a major contributing factor to that problem,
the networks wanted to market to young boys almost exclusively so with only a hand full of exceptions everything that got imported to US television had a male lead Cardcaptor Sakura even got butchered into Cardcaptors and tried to make Sakura a supporting character in her own show.
I mean it feels like overall I have seen more female main characters in anime then in western animation but back in the late 90’s early 2000’s? Well the people sourcing shows for toonami decided a harem comedy (tenchi muyo) was a good after school cartoon.
@TreePerson
Huh, didn’t know they played it that way in the US. Tbh I did notice a lot of censorship when I moved there, but as far as Tenchi Muyo goes, Latin American countries actually got Ranma 1/2 entirely uncensored on regular broadcasting channels, after school hours. But I would say that the source material itself degenerated overtime.
There is a common saying that goes “Anime isn’t as good as it used to be”. This is because the market got flooded with harem anime and similar. It got especially bad in the later half of the 2000s and nowadays it’s not like they’re even trying: overly sexualized girls and harem anime are entirely cliché now.
We might be starting to see a pull away from these clichés, but even so, they still dominate the market. It’s like the Uroboros serpent, the trend feeds upon itself. The more sexual expectations these shows foster upon the young male demographic, there more demand there is.
@Diego Duarte
It was bizarre they aired tenchi muyo as after school cartoon but only after heavy editing to make it more kid friendly,
at that point why even bother?
Most anime is generic, back in the 90’s/00’s it was all completely new compared to the hanna barbera/warner bros cartoons that dominated the western market so there is something of a nostalgia filter that says the billion episodes of meandering filler that was dragonball z was amazing ground braking work (I liked Gundam Wing better myself).
Its not that there is less good anime these days its that we add up all of the good anime and anime we remember fondly and compare it to the current season which has a few good shows and a bunch of generic fodder,
but yeah the otaku bait fanservice harems are an eye sore.
So far I’ve been watching darker magical girl anime and Gundam shows and stuff by a few creatives I bother to follow.
@Shadowplay,
Evidently quite a few people (myself included) have found some of Female Yid’s comments to be extremely problematic. I think it’s ok that we express that, and I don’t think we’re dog-piling. Having said that, sure, I’ll move on *shrugs*
Diversion time! Re Sam Harris, Peterson, et al.:
I loved some of Dawkins’ writing; same with Hitchens’ work (I re-read Mortality a lot). So it’s been kind of painful, the last few years. Their rational skepticism never seems to be applied to their own thinking, somehow.
And yeah, as WWTH said, their fans are something else. True paragons of rational, individual, critical thinking ?
@Female Yid – I absolutely agree with that I don’t view treating women in a paternalistic manner as being akin to the violent misogyny you view of the Alt-Right.
The Alt-Rightists hate women for being women. The traditionalists seem to view it as their duty to “protect” women. I used to travel a lot to some of the more traditional Middle Eastern countries for work and I always saw it as men believing that it was cruel to not take proper care of women. It annoyed me and I don’t appreciate a man seeing me as a child – but I don’t think that is born of hate.
Ahem. *taps mic* Anyone listening?
I am incredibly disturbed that it’s apparently now a controversial statement in a feminist space to label religious fundamentalist sexism as misogyny.
What the actual fucking fuck!?
Seriously.
10-20 years ago it would not have been a controversial statement to label this kind of paternalistic sexism as misogyny in a progressive and/or feminist space.
When you say those people are merely annoying, condescending, or simply trying to uphold tradition, you are letting the alt-right control the discourse around gender issues. It’s ceding ground to them. You are moving the amount of bias against women that is viewed as acceptable further to the right.
That. Is. Not. Okay.
Not with me anyway. And I will continue to push against it. I’m not going to let these fuckers manipulate me into thinking that merely trying to legalize marital rape and outlaw reproductive health care is not really so bad. And I’m not going to let those ideas take hold here.
Traditional sexists who claim they just want to protect women beat women. They rape women. They deny their daughters proper education. They work to keep us second class citizens.
That is misogyny. Full fucking stop.
@weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
Radical fringe effect:
the “legalize the rape of unmarried women over 16 by organized gangs of men.” crowed make the run of the mill “women are less then men and ban abortion.” crowed look almost reasonable.
Both are despicable and should be fought with no quarter given,
never cede ground to them and grind them under foot until there is nothing left of misogyny, sexism and bigotry in general.
The wall goes at the border, and the border is “equal.”
Not “paternalistic compassion”, not “traditional but gentle,” not “understandable bias”.
Wall’s at “equal”. If you’re defending further back, you’re ceding them the bulwark.
No compromises. Whether their belief is born of hate, born of compassion, born of whatever. Doesn’t matter. No compromises.
Your mileage may vary.
@weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
I’m listening loud and clear. And damn we need this more than ever.
@wwth
Five by. Well said. To my mind the paternalistic stuff is worse, because it’s so prevalent (and so insidious – going to make a small bet that any man who comments here with any regularity has to constantly fight the over protective crap within themselves).
@wwth,
Been hearing you crystal clear the whole time, and you’re damn right.
I also get that feeling of “hello? can anyone hear me?” ?
Hear, hear. Traditional paternalism is just as toxic and hateful as the blatant bullshit that the alt-righters spew. I’d say it’s more insidious, even if it’s less immediately violent, because it can be couched in “caring” language. It comes in the form of gaslighting and emotional abuse and all manner of things that aren’t quite so easy for society to identify as “holy shit that’s appalling” as the blatant violence of “real” misogyny. It’s something that can be have excuses made for it, as this thread as clearly shown.
On top of that, the paternalistic crap is only ‘protective’ so long as you toe the line they set out (and are the right race to be cared about to begin with). The second you fall into the ‘whore’ side of the whore/madonna dichotomy, you’re a feral animal, instead of a pretty little ornament to keep and “cherish”. At best, there will be ostracism and discrimination, but more often this will result in more direct punishments to “show the women her place”, you know, just like what the alt-right spouts.
I suppose paternalism assumes that the (correct) women are ‘madonnas’ and to be treated like cherished objects unless proven otherwise, while the alt-righties assume that all women fall into the ‘whore’ side of the dichotomy unless proven otherwise.
In addition to everything else…
Even if it’s not (which I disagree with, because subconscious hate is still hate, but let’s go with it for the sake of argument), ever heard the saying “The road to Hell is paved with good intentions”? It literally does not matter if the intention is “Protection” when the result is oppression, abuse, rape and murder on a global scale.
(… Also, why are we all pretending that Y*d is here in good faith when their username is an anti-Semitic slur? If they’re not yet another Nazi pretending to be a feminist, I’ll eat my favourite hat.)
@WWTH:
@Catalpa:
http://media.giphy.com/media/p1chWWGExnuYE/giphy.gif
Just… the whole of both of those rants. That has made my morning.
@Shadowplay:
Isn’t that the truth?
(Apologies for the double post, but M ninja’d me.)
M, you have better trolldar than I do, but I got the sense that she’s genuine, albeit something of an asshole. I’ve heard a number of religious people say similar things before, torn between being pissed off at patriarchy and being hesitant to fully reject the traditions they were brought up in.
As such, I can see her name as being an attempt to reclaim the slur; it strikes me as the sort of thing that is coherent with the behaviour we’ve seen from her.
Also… could you not refer to Jewish people as Nazis? I’m normally there with you about using that phrase, but in this case I think it might be a little insensitive.
@wwth et al – YES and thank you!!!!!!!
I got the same impression as EJ the other one FWIW.
@Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
I did not catch that but she has been getting the side eye from me,
especially after calling our discussion of the failures of communism to live up to its own ideals defending it.
WWTH, you said exactly what I was thinking, but much more eloquently?
Im a lapsed Catholic(but I was raised as a very devout Catholic)My mom was a nun when she met my social worker father at a grouphome. I went to church 3 times a week+sunday school till I was 12.(I got asked to leave Sunday school when I was 10. They said I was disruptive because I asked too many questions????)
Because of the Sunday school debacle, and a few smaller similar experiences+ the fact that I couldn’t get anyone to give me satisfying answers to my questions, I went from devout to disillusioned. Now I’ve come to a happy medium but being constantly at church I knew almost the whole regular congregation(200-250 people)at least to chat with.
My point is(aside from the fact that I need to learn to be concise?)even as a child and a young teen, the way a plurality, if not a majority of the men(and often, but not always, the more “devout” they were, the worse they were)treated their wives and female family members like they were just less than, in many different ways. Yes most of them weren’t straight up assholes(at least in public)but even things like women disagreeing with them was unacceptable or silly(some would be like essentially ” oh how cute she thinks her opinions are worthwhile.
TL, DR: it’s straight misogyny. I don’t care if they mean well, I don’t care if they’re kind to women in a lot of ways. They do not consider women to be equal to them. Period