By David Futrelle
Lefty media site Unicorn Riot, which is doing a bang-up job exposing the so-called alt-right — recently obtained a virtual treasure trove of chat logs and audio files in which members of Patriot Front, a self-described “American fascist” group that split off from Vanguard America last year, talk about how much they hate Jews and love guns and all the assorted other things that the shithead Nazis of today like to talk about.
Some of the most hair-raising discussions in this vast pile of terrible concern one group of human beings that the current generation of Nazis especially hate: women. Nazis and white supremacists have always been sexist, but in the past their sexism always had a paternalistic side to it. Nazis and Klansmen claimed to want to protect and even celebrate white women, and many women found this appealing. In the 1920s, the women’s auxilliary of the KKK had a half million members.
The alt-right of today, by contrast, is overwhelmingly male — and overwhelmingly misogynistic, with an anti-woman ideology not that far removed from your average incel.
Take a listen to how these guys talk about women when they think no one is paying attention. If anything, their comments are even worse than the descriptions below suggest.
(Content advisory: sexual assault)
Patriot Front members are told that in an American ethnostate, rape is OK "as long as you're raping.. your own race." "Ethnostate rape gangs" would target unmarried white women who didn't adhere to "traditional values" https://t.co/lEVX6Izuzn pic.twitter.com/nIoL9skbNn— UNICORN RIOT (@UR_Ninja) March 5, 2018
In the recorded Discord voice meeting, Patriot Front members expand on their vision of 'White Sharia' in America. They discuss a desire to return to gender roles from the 1890s & share their admiration for Hitler's family planning policies in Nazi Germany https://t.co/lEVX6Izuzn pic.twitter.com/f5dqQCFCyB
— UNICORN RIOT (@UR_Ninja) March 5, 2018
It’s probably not much of a surprise that these guys are also violently homophobic.
Patriot Front's vision of 'White Sharia' also involves an extremely homophobic component. The only gay people that would be allowed to live in their American ethnostate would be those who "don't ever speak about it" https://t.co/lEVX6Izuzn pic.twitter.com/VqsB3RSOSp
— UNICORN RIOT (@UR_Ninja) March 5, 2018
Check out the rest of this twitter thread to hear the Patriot Front boys’ thoughts on the relative merits of different guns, the alleged racist evil of Black Lives Matter, and their alt-right rivals The Traditionalist Workers Party.
For more on the brief but still pretty awful history of Patriot Front, check out Unicorn Riot’s feature on the group, which also contains links to UR’s archives of the 26,0000 Discord messages they, er, obtained from these lovely lady hating fascists.
And she has the best surname ever
I came here (past my bedtime) to share good news, only to find Alan beat me to it.
My take away is that I don’t know whether to be delighted or depressed that a significant piece of evidence in their convictions was their own video of them breaking the law, which they then shared online. Delighted, because it’s so much easier to catch criminals when they are this stupid. Depressed, because there’s a portion of society that doesn’t even recognise this behaviour as criminal.
Unicorn Riot are doing such important work (and I’m quite sure I wouldn’t be able to stomach it).
Unrelated note: it’s already March 8 here, so Happy IWD everyone ?????????
There’s a stark difference between old nationalists and the alt-right. As a Jewish woman, far-right Zionists (the people who think Palestinians are scum and promote fundamentalist Judaism) generally care about my welfare in the same paternalsitic way the KKK used to. They don’t see me as unintelligent or a worthless slab of meat, they just view me as someone that needs to be subordinate yet kept happy.
The alt-right is essentially the distillation of the absolute worst of online reactionism. It’s the continuation of GamerGate and it takes the violent entitled misogyny many gamers have and takes it up to eleven. Do yourself a favor and go look at those accounts that supported GamerGate. They’re alt-right accounts now.
It is straight white male entitlement taken to an nth degree.
In every society there are those whose idea of a good time is to oppress, violate and abuse others. But nakedly saying “I just wanna hurt people” is never going to go over well. So these creeps glom onto some sort of ideology as a shield for their abuse.
For the Taliban and ISIS, the shielding ideology is religion.
For Joseph Stalin it was politico-economic.
For Pol Pot it was anti-intellectualism.
For MRAs, Incels and their ilk it’s Men’s Rights.
But really, they just wanna hurt people. Don’t fall for their protestations that it’s anything else.
@Tosca
Joseph Stalin and Pol Pot were both motivated by communism. Pol Pot just injected Khmer nationalist mythology and engaged in a kind of left-wing fascism.
No.
Stalin and Pol Pot were motivated by power. Same as every other bugger, cept Cincinnatus and maybe Washington.
Communism was their fig leaf, and a useful one it was.
Every communist I have met despises Pol Pot and Stalin,
and with good reason the end point of communism is supposed to be the government dissolving after redistributing the means of production from the elite to the people,
needless to say it never works since some one who likes having all of that power keeps taking control and the nation gets stuck on horrible dictatorship instead of progressing to classless utopia.
Nor will it ever. Well, not until humanity as a whole gets a serious upgrade.
It’s a lovely mental construct.
Perfect in theory, too fragile to survive in practice.
I’m actually genuinely terrified of this…
I know it seems to sound ridiculous but with some personal stuff that happened and the way the alt right are behaving….maybe it’s not a far reach to fear it
@Shadowplay
I generally think communism has some good ideas but the process and execution is intrinsically flawed in majorly important ways.
But the Nordic model of socialism seems to be working out pretty well these days so probably worth building on that version and learning from the failures of the communist attempts.
OT, sort of: Full Frontal With Samantha Bee just did a great segment on the alt-right, focusing on how young men who feel lonely and misunderstood (and are sometimes just looking for dating advice) buy into its misogyny and gradually turn into violent bigots. The piece uses and explains terms that WHTM readers are all too familiar with, including “incel” and “red pill”. Full Frontal is always worth watching, but this episode hits Mammotheers where we live.
I usually distinguish Catholics as entirely separate from Evangelical Christians (which are the ones I meant by American Christians). Given that 81% of them voted for Trump, and continue to support him, it’s not that they’re just vocal: that’s mainstream Christianity. I understand that there are progressive Christians (given that Jesus would’ve definitely been progressive in our times) however, they’re are a small minority in America. It sucks for them, but their voices will continue to be drowned by the majority at almost every level, until the hateful bigots start dying out.
@TreePerson
Agreed. The Nordic model (or to an extent the French model) have enough limitations within them to prevent them being jacked by some strongman for personal gain. Communism does not. Nor does capitalism.
There’s still holes and cracks to be exploited – there always will be when you are talking about people and their endlessly inventive ways of pulling stunts with the rules – but fewer than most politico-social systems.
A good “temperature check” I’ve found for the robustness of a particular countries socialist ideology is to look at the average tenure of a union head within that country. The longer the head stays in power (especially if there’s the odd scandal), the more exploitable cracks that version of socialism has.
Sorry for the divert – suborning political systems and institutions is an interest of mine. 😛
Can I just say how amazing that Wonder Women image is? “Dear Diary, today I saw a picture of Wonder Woman holding in one hand a cheese wheel and sausage links, and in the other, a fish. What a world we live in!”
Communism in which the government dissolves is not achievable. If it were, it would be as unstable as a pencil balanced on its point: any slight deviation from exactly egalitarian wealth distribution would snowball and amplify, until you had a nearly-totally-unregulated capitalism, which of course is disaster.
To keep the system stable away from that attractor state (oligarchy) requires an activist government of some sort, whether Nordic model or some kind of direct democracy (syndicalist?) … such systems are typically termed socialist, but not termed communist.
The “Iron Law of Oligarchy” is basically a) the existence of that attractor state and b) the observations made above about loopholes and the inevitability of people trying to game the system to give themselves entrenched privileges, which tends to result in such an activist government being chipped away at over time.
Note that, properly constituted (Adam Smithian), capitalism is as unstable as communism. An unregulated free market doesn’t stay free for long. Monopoly formation will turn it into an oligarchy, which is no longer a pure capitalist system. So neither the far left’s nor the libertarian right’s ideal can actually exist for any significant span of time! The stablest system thus far observed is indeed the Nordic model, which is considered to be moderately to strongly, but not extreme, left.
Hi everyone!?(especially Fran, Dalillama, Scild, Axe, Alan, EJ, Mish and anyone else who was kind to me and helped educate my ignorant ass without being mean and/or condescending)I haven’t been on the internet as much(shrink’s recommendation)since I got out of the hospital. I was reading news and opinion sites like this like 6 hours a day, to try and educate myself, and it greatly contributed to my breakdown.
I only just noticed that the site had new stuff today. I think(and my boyfriend agrees)that this site is one of my best places to go for info, cause it’s informative but not depressing. Plus, the community is kind and intelligent. I’ll post something on topic when I get home in an hour.
Last, but surely not least, David, I’m so glad you’re feeling better! My bipolar disorder got the best of me for awhile and it was awful, but I’m much better now and so it seems are you. I admire you so much for the work you do, I totally couldn’t do it myself. I hope you stay well.
Have a good night, everyone!
Welcome back, Katie!
Welcome back KatieKitten420
New (ish) here but enjoying it although I’m a stranger glad you’re feeling better bi polar can be rough ( have it too ) you have an ally in me though
Welcome back, Katie.
@FemaleYid:
You make a good point.
I would argue that the difference between old-school nationalism and the alt-Right is one of perspective: the far-right Zionist nationalists look at you as an insider, whereas the alt-Right (and Gamergate, as you point out) look at you as an outsider.
If you were Palestinian, meaning that the far-right Zionist nationalists saw you as an outsider, what do you think your response to them would be?
I’ve had a lot of success using argument and debate against reactionaries but this lot don’t sound like they would stop and listen. If these particular nazis were coming to my town I know what I’d do. Although I would be forever tainted with the mark of cain it would be my gift to the world to live with it. I can’t believe I’m saying that really but I won’t take it back. They have gone beyond humanity and are an existential threat to our existence. We are worth fighting to protect, do not let them tell you otherwise.
Of course we hope that a sensible government would declare them a hate group and have them arrested for plotting acts of terror. Once safely incarcerated perhaps some form of rehabilitation could be attempted. That would be the right way to do it. Sad that it won’t happen while you have the cheeto in chief. So happy that my country has declared right wing extemism for what it is and banged em up.
I had a big argument with an anarchist the other day, and this feeds into it. Isn’t it better that we have institutions to keep the dangerous ones incarcerated, than to have to defend oneself with potentially lethal force? That’s not to say that government doesn’t overuse prison. I think prison should be reserved for violent or dangerous crimes.
Glad you’re feeling better, Katie! Take care of yourself.
Gadget was the best cartoon mouse mechanic. xxx
Mish:
Also known as International “so when is international men’s day what do you mean it’s November 19th” day. As always, Richard Herring will be busy.
I think a lot of people perceive child sex abuse as sexual normativity issue, rather than sexual consent issue.