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advocacy of violence alt-right anti-Semitism AntiFa antifeminism empathy deficit entitled babies evil human females evil sexy ladies grandiosity has possibly never spoken to a woman hate literal nazis men who should not ever be with women ever miscegenation misogyny pedophiles oh sorry ephebophiles racism rape rape is good actually stacies

“Ethnostate rape gangs” and other treats the “American fascists” in Patriot Front want to bring to women

To be fair, Nazis don’t really understand women either

By David Futrelle

Lefty media site Unicorn Riot, which is doing a bang-up job exposing the so-called alt-right — recently obtained a virtual treasure trove of chat logs and audio files in which members of Patriot Front, a self-described “American fascist” group that split off from Vanguard America last year, talk about how much they hate Jews and love guns and all the assorted other things that the shithead Nazis of today like to talk about.

Some of the most hair-raising discussions in this vast pile of terrible concern one group of human beings that the current generation of Nazis especially hate: women. Nazis and white supremacists have always been sexist, but in the past their sexism always had a paternalistic side to it. Nazis and Klansmen claimed to want to protect and even celebrate white women, and many women found this appealing. In the 1920s, the women’s auxilliary of the KKK had a half million members.

The alt-right of today, by contrast, is overwhelmingly male — and overwhelmingly misogynistic, with an anti-woman ideology not that far removed from your average incel.

Take a listen to how these guys talk about women when they think no one is paying attention. If anything, their comments are even worse than the descriptions below suggest.

It’s probably not much of a surprise that these guys are also violently homophobic.

Check out the rest of this twitter thread to hear the Patriot Front boys’ thoughts on the relative merits of different guns, the alleged racist evil of Black Lives Matter, and their alt-right rivals The Traditionalist Workers Party.

For more on the brief but still pretty awful history of Patriot Front, check out Unicorn Riot’s feature on the group, which also contains links to UR’s archives of the 26,0000 Discord messages they, er, obtained from these lovely lady hating fascists.

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Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent + Bard of the New Movement
Troubelle: Moonbeam Malcontent + Bard of the New Movement
2 years ago

I never asked for this, and don’t know where to go
Seem to have gotten myself in a certain limbo
Me, in the face of misogyny

Being forced around by a gang unwelcome
Being given time to breathe so very seldom
Oh dear
I have two options here

I tell the truth or I can lie
Thing is that lyin’ isn’t sly
And my truth is something they won’t take as fact

Say I’m a woman and I’m carted away
Say I’m not in the binary and God knows what they’ll say

A catch-22, for either me or you
Either way I’ll surely say I’m not gonna like what they’ll do
If they get ahold

Of me or you, of me or you, of me or you

Let’s not be quiet, let’s bay our fear
Let’s say today, whether female or genderqueer
This ain’t the time we want
This ain’t the time we’ll take!
And prepare for a quake

Open your eyes and see the world surround
Open your ears and take in all the sound
And make it like a siren
And make it hard to mention
Or defend bigotry

Simple enough to see

Someone’s gotta take history

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
2 years ago

Okay, how are these people not labelled “terrorists” yet? I’m pretty sure they fit the legal description of terrorism, given that they’re planning to commit felonies for political purposes. The US is becoming increasingly more radicalized and the centrist media keeps on downplaying the danger these people represent.

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
2 years ago

Saw this on Twitter as well. I am utterly unsurprised by it.

Hillary Clinton called them a “basket of deplorables”; Trump called them “fine people”.

I’m putting five dollars down on “won’t change the minds of anyone who thinks they aren’t Nazis” the the WHTM pool on this one.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
2 years ago

Just to add some background to this, one of the defendants is the person whose racist videos Trump retweeted.

http://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/britain-first-leaders-paul-golding-jayda-fransen-court_uk_5a9f9fe6e4b0d4f5b66ba0ad?x5

Weird (America Where Are You Now? Don't You Care About Your Sons And Daughters?) Eddie
Weird (America Where Are You Now? Don't You Care About Your Sons And Daughters?) Eddie
2 years ago

Okay, how are these people not labelled “terrorists”

Their terrorists are called “terrorists”…
Our terrorists are called “freedom fighters”….

/s

personalpest
personalpest
2 years ago

Maybe a bit off topic here, but I find the use of the phrase “White Sharia” especially revealing. It’s been said before, but it bears repeating: fundamentalists and extremists around the world have more in common than they care to admit.They share the same motivations: bigotry, fear and hatred of the modern world, the desire to plunge humanity into a new dark age. They could do even more damage than they already are if they realized this and unified; fortunately, this will never happen because the various factions all despise each other, and each little group wants to be the one that winds up in charge.

Laugher at Bigots
2 years ago

@Alan:

It’s good to see racists get their just deserts.

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
2 years ago

Maybe a bit off topic here, but I find the use of the phrase “White Sharia” especially revealing.

Totally true. Listen to what they say – they say races should be separated to live in their own homogeneous states. They are totally fine with ISIS and other fundamentalists, because they’re basically trying to accomplish he same goals. Fundamentalist authoritarianism is what they both want. They’re the same group, and would probably get along just fine.

And they call us traitors.

Dan Kasteray
Dan Kasteray
2 years ago

This is stochastic terrorism at its finest. This is the kind of philosophy that guides almost every mass shooter. And really, it scares the shit out of me

vaiyt
vaiyt
2 years ago

These guys are refreshingly honest compared to the self-contradictory, duplicitous pablum Nazis usually peddle.

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
2 years ago

fundamentalists and extremists around the world have more in common than they care to admit.They share the same motivations: bigotry, fear and hatred of the modern world, the desire to plunge humanity into a new dark age. They could do even more damage than they already are if they realized this and unified; fortunately, this will never happen because the various factions all despise each other, and each little group wants to be the one that winds up in charge.

Let’s narrow it down even further, because “fundamentalists” is still far too broad and “extremists” is already self-explanatory.

American Christianity promotes the same brand of fundamentalism as the Taliban and ISIS. They are into religion not so much for the “values and tradition” as they are for the dominance and control. Both religions treat women as little more than breeding mares.

I would even go so far as to argue that Christianity is worse, when given context. Islamic countries had to be bombed, over and over, pillaged, and be subjected to almost every form of foreign intervention, for over 70 years, to reach this point of fundamentalism and open hostility.

American Christians though? They became radicalized after the passage of the Civil Rights Act, and decided to push for a theocratic society. And now they’ve become even more radicalized after the election of Black man as president of the US. Just imagine what they’d be like if they had suffered the same indignities they inflicted upon the Middle East.

Also, the expansion of this style of Christianity into other countries, and all of its detriments, hasn’t been explored enough. It has had particular regressive effects in South America (Colombia and Peru) and Africa (Uganda), where American christianity experiments with laws they would like to pass in the US; much to the detriment of non-believers in said countries.

flexitarian haruspix
flexitarian haruspix
2 years ago

In that first clip, after some debate, they decide that 12-year-old girls are too young for gang rape, but 16-year-olds are prime targets. This after one of the guys cites 16 as Michigan’s age of consent.

Age of consent.

As applicable.

To gang rape.

Because you know, you don’t want to seem like a creep or anything.

iknklast
iknklast
2 years ago

target unmarried white women who didn’t adhere to “traditional values”

What about married white women who don’t adhere to “traditional values”? I imagine they aren’t too happy with that group, either. I’m sure they’d be horrified to see my husband washing dishes and dusting while I’m working as a biologist.

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
2 years ago

In that first clip, after some debate, they decide that 12-year-old girls are too young for gang rape, but 16-year-olds are prime targets. This after one of the guys cites 16 as Michigan’s age of consent.

Considering these people are a collective of organized abusers it would not be too far out to say they’re targeting people who are above the age of consent because then they can somehow claim that their victim consented; and then proceed to harass her and intimidate her if she says otherwise.

A 12 year old though? Too blatant for them to get off from all charges.

Bakunin
Bakunin
2 years ago

Exhibit A in why Antifa are not as bad as the right. These are people that would kill me, my friends, and likely someone that every centrist bastard cares about. Fuck them all.

flexitarian haruspix
flexitarian haruspix
2 years ago

… it would not be too far out to say they’re targeting people who are above the age of consent because then they can somehow claim that their victim consented; and then proceed to harass her and intimidate her if she says otherwise.

Mostly I was just trying to illustrate the utter irony about talking age of consent as it relates to their frankly horrifying rape fantasy, but got more of the impression that they were imagining a world where it was totes legal for all dudes to go around raping any girl at least who’s at least 16. The thing is, age of consent only matters if consent itself matters, and as they unreservedly call it ‘gang rape,’ the lack of consent is a foregone conclusion and clearly doesn’t matter.

What they’re talking about seemed to me more along the lines of, “How young can our rape victims be before other men think we’re pedophiles?”

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
2 years ago

@fleixtarian haruspix

Oh, I got the angle you were going with, but I was wondering whether these guys motives were even more heinous than what they seemed at the surface level. You never know with these people.

flexitarian haruspix
flexitarian haruspix
2 years ago

Oh, I gotcha. ^^ And ain’t that the truth. Underestimating the Nazis got everyone in a bunch of trouble the last time it happened; I’d prefer no repeats.

Msexceptiontotherule
Msexceptiontotherule
2 years ago

I cannot imagine there being more groups of this ilk so truly deserving of a “***## to the face followed by endless LEGO walking while barefoot”.

There are too many as it is, maybe they need to be walled in like the scene from that Clive Owens’ version of king Arthur where he frees Keira Knightley’s Guinevere before taking on the barbarians with the help of his loyal knights and her people joining forces so they can all live happily ever after, have Merlin marry Arthur and Guinevere, get that sword back to the lake in between meetings at the round table. Or just plain shot into space towards that Tesla (if there are actual aliens I apologize for suggesting a tactic that would most assuredly ruin a few million light years in traveling the universe for you, as intelligent life beings having to deal with these examples of unintelligent life for us is pretty sucky. Accept Elon Musk as our apology, if you wish he can bring many Tesla, please. It’s not like most of us can afford them anyway.)

Does it ever occur to these douchebags that they might encounter women who are armed and won’t send them running with their hatemongering undies wedged up their backsides to get back to the safety of their internet echo chambers only to find we’re shutting those down too? They probably ignore how many women are a much better shot with firearms and reading/listening to every stupid word (that they can stomach) so they know these idiots are coming, ready to defend not just their own but all the ‘others’ targeted for hate?

Oh well. Can’t say they weren’t asking for it. Begging, even. (/S).

Weird (America Where Are You Now? Don't You Care About Your Sons And Daughters?) Eddie
Weird (America Where Are You Now? Don't You Care About Your Sons And Daughters?) Eddie
2 years ago

Maybe a bit off topic here, but I find the use of the phrase “White Sharia” especially revealing.

Totally true. Listen to what they say

The “Will Mcavoy” character from “The Newsroom”…

Tea Party is “The American Taliban”

personalpest
personalpest
2 years ago

They’re the same group, and would probably get along just fine.

Maybe, but only up to a point. Remember this article?

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

What about married white women who don’t adhere to “traditional values”? I imagine they aren’t too happy with that group, either. I’m sure they’d be horrified to see my husband washing dishes and dusting while I’m working as a biologist.

If your husband is also white, then they’d probably consider you his property and therefore his problem.

American Christianity promotes the same brand of fundamentalism as the Taliban and ISIS. They are into religion not so much for the “values and tradition” as they are for the dominance and control. Both religions treat women as little more than breeding mares.

As a cranky atheist, I’m usually the last person to say #not all Christians. But there really is a big difference between what you’re talking about, which are Evangelical Christians and mainline Protestants or Catholics. I’d say generally that Evangelicals are pretty fascist, but there are plenty of progressive Christians in the US. Including some who post and/or read here. The religious right is far more vocal than anyone else so it’s easy to get the impression that’s that the only type of American Christianity, but it’s not the full picture. I do wish there was more organized progressive Christianity though. Moral Mondays in North Carolina is a good start but it’s not enough.

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
2 years ago

The sort of men who think the Republic of Gilead (book version) sounds like a swell idea.

kupo
kupo
2 years ago

@personalpest
Can I just say your avatar makes me happy? 🙂

personalpest
personalpest
2 years ago

@personalpest
Can I just say your avatar makes me happy? 🙂

Golly, you sure can! Thanks!

For those not familiar with the character, she’s Gadget, the inventive mouse from the 1989 Disney series Chip ‘n Dale Rescue Rangers. Gadget is everything that manospherians try to avoid in a woman: intelligent, compassionate, and able to take care of business when she has to. She’s actually a pretty good role model.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
2 years ago

For those not familiar with the character, she’s Gadget

And she has the best surname ever

Weatherwax
Weatherwax
2 years ago

I came here (past my bedtime) to share good news, only to find Alan beat me to it.

My take away is that I don’t know whether to be delighted or depressed that a significant piece of evidence in their convictions was their own video of them breaking the law, which they then shared online. Delighted, because it’s so much easier to catch criminals when they are this stupid. Depressed, because there’s a portion of society that doesn’t even recognise this behaviour as criminal.

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
2 years ago

Unicorn Riot are doing such important work (and I’m quite sure I wouldn’t be able to stomach it).

Unrelated note: it’s already March 8 here, so Happy IWD everyone 💖💖💖😻😻😻👏👏👏

Female Yid
Female Yid
2 years ago

There’s a stark difference between old nationalists and the alt-right. As a Jewish woman, far-right Zionists (the people who think Palestinians are scum and promote fundamentalist Judaism) generally care about my welfare in the same paternalsitic way the KKK used to. They don’t see me as unintelligent or a worthless slab of meat, they just view me as someone that needs to be subordinate yet kept happy.

The alt-right is essentially the distillation of the absolute worst of online reactionism. It’s the continuation of GamerGate and it takes the violent entitled misogyny many gamers have and takes it up to eleven. Do yourself a favor and go look at those accounts that supported GamerGate. They’re alt-right accounts now.

It is straight white male entitlement taken to an nth degree.

Tosca; Chaos made Flesh, Servant of the Purring Jew
Tosca; Chaos made Flesh, Servant of the Purring Jew
2 years ago

In every society there are those whose idea of a good time is to oppress, violate and abuse others. But nakedly saying “I just wanna hurt people” is never going to go over well. So these creeps glom onto some sort of ideology as a shield for their abuse.

For the Taliban and ISIS, the shielding ideology is religion.

For Joseph Stalin it was politico-economic.

For Pol Pot it was anti-intellectualism.

For MRAs, Incels and their ilk it’s Men’s Rights.

But really, they just wanna hurt people. Don’t fall for their protestations that it’s anything else.

Female Yid
Female Yid
2 years ago

@Tosca

Joseph Stalin and Pol Pot were both motivated by communism. Pol Pot just injected Khmer nationalist mythology and engaged in a kind of left-wing fascism.

Shadowplay
2 years ago

Joseph Stalin and Pol Pot were both motivated by communism.

No.

Stalin and Pol Pot were motivated by power. Same as every other bugger, cept Cincinnatus and maybe Washington.

Communism was their fig leaf, and a useful one it was.

TreePerson
TreePerson
2 years ago

Every communist I have met despises Pol Pot and Stalin,
and with good reason the end point of communism is supposed to be the government dissolving after redistributing the means of production from the elite to the people,
needless to say it never works since some one who likes having all of that power keeps taking control and the nation gets stuck on horrible dictatorship instead of progressing to classless utopia.

Shadowplay
2 years ago

needless to say it never works …

Nor will it ever. Well, not until humanity as a whole gets a serious upgrade.

It’s a lovely mental construct.

Perfect in theory, too fragile to survive in practice.

Fluffy Spider
Fluffy Spider
2 years ago

I’m actually genuinely terrified of this…
I know it seems to sound ridiculous but with some personal stuff that happened and the way the alt right are behaving….maybe it’s not a far reach to fear it

TreePerson
TreePerson
2 years ago

@Shadowplay
I generally think communism has some good ideas but the process and execution is intrinsically flawed in majorly important ways.

But the Nordic model of socialism seems to be working out pretty well these days so probably worth building on that version and learning from the failures of the communist attempts.

personalpest
personalpest
2 years ago

OT, sort of: Full Frontal With Samantha Bee just did a great segment on the alt-right, focusing on how young men who feel lonely and misunderstood (and are sometimes just looking for dating advice) buy into its misogyny and gradually turn into violent bigots. The piece uses and explains terms that WHTM readers are all too familiar with, including “incel” and “red pill”. Full Frontal is always worth watching, but this episode hits Mammotheers where we live.

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
2 years ago

As a cranky atheist, I’m usually the last person to say #not all Christians. But there really is a big difference between what you’re talking about, which are Evangelical Christians and mainline Protestants or Catholics. I’d say generally that Evangelicals are pretty fascist, but there are plenty of progressive Christians in the US. Including some who post and/or read here. The religious right is far more vocal than anyone else so it’s easy to get the impression that’s that the only type of American Christianity, but it’s not the full picture. I do wish there was more organized progressive Christianity though. Moral Mondays in North Carolina is a good start but it’s not enough.

I usually distinguish Catholics as entirely separate from Evangelical Christians (which are the ones I meant by American Christians). Given that 81% of them voted for Trump, and continue to support him, it’s not that they’re just vocal: that’s mainstream Christianity. I understand that there are progressive Christians (given that Jesus would’ve definitely been progressive in our times) however, they’re are a small minority in America. It sucks for them, but their voices will continue to be drowned by the majority at almost every level, until the hateful bigots start dying out.

Shadowplay
2 years ago

@TreePerson

Agreed. The Nordic model (or to an extent the French model) have enough limitations within them to prevent them being jacked by some strongman for personal gain. Communism does not. Nor does capitalism.

There’s still holes and cracks to be exploited – there always will be when you are talking about people and their endlessly inventive ways of pulling stunts with the rules – but fewer than most politico-social systems.

A good “temperature check” I’ve found for the robustness of a particular countries socialist ideology is to look at the average tenure of a union head within that country. The longer the head stays in power (especially if there’s the odd scandal), the more exploitable cracks that version of socialism has.

Sorry for the divert – suborning political systems and institutions is an interest of mine. 😛

Jules
Jules
2 years ago

Can I just say how amazing that Wonder Women image is? “Dear Diary, today I saw a picture of Wonder Woman holding in one hand a cheese wheel and sausage links, and in the other, a fish. What a world we live in!”

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
2 years ago

Communism in which the government dissolves is not achievable. If it were, it would be as unstable as a pencil balanced on its point: any slight deviation from exactly egalitarian wealth distribution would snowball and amplify, until you had a nearly-totally-unregulated capitalism, which of course is disaster.

To keep the system stable away from that attractor state (oligarchy) requires an activist government of some sort, whether Nordic model or some kind of direct democracy (syndicalist?) … such systems are typically termed socialist, but not termed communist.

The “Iron Law of Oligarchy” is basically a) the existence of that attractor state and b) the observations made above about loopholes and the inevitability of people trying to game the system to give themselves entrenched privileges, which tends to result in such an activist government being chipped away at over time.

Note that, properly constituted (Adam Smithian), capitalism is as unstable as communism. An unregulated free market doesn’t stay free for long. Monopoly formation will turn it into an oligarchy, which is no longer a pure capitalist system. So neither the far left’s nor the libertarian right’s ideal can actually exist for any significant span of time! The stablest system thus far observed is indeed the Nordic model, which is considered to be moderately to strongly, but not extreme, left.

KatieKitten420
KatieKitten420
2 years ago

Hi everyone!😀(especially Fran, Dalillama, Scild, Axe, Alan, EJ, Mish and anyone else who was kind to me and helped educate my ignorant ass without being mean and/or condescending)I haven’t been on the internet as much(shrink’s recommendation)since I got out of the hospital. I was reading news and opinion sites like this like 6 hours a day, to try and educate myself, and it greatly contributed to my breakdown.
I only just noticed that the site had new stuff today. I think(and my boyfriend agrees)that this site is one of my best places to go for info, cause it’s informative but not depressing. Plus, the community is kind and intelligent. I’ll post something on topic when I get home in an hour.
Last, but surely not least, David, I’m so glad you’re feeling better! My bipolar disorder got the best of me for awhile and it was awful, but I’m much better now and so it seems are you. I admire you so much for the work you do, I totally couldn’t do it myself. I hope you stay well.
Have a good night, everyone!

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Welcome back, Katie!

Fluffy Spider
Fluffy Spider
2 years ago

Welcome back KatieKitten420
New (ish) here but enjoying it although I’m a stranger glad you’re feeling better bi polar can be rough ( have it too ) you have an ally in me though

EJ (The Other One)
2 years ago

Welcome back, Katie.

@FemaleYid:
You make a good point.

I would argue that the difference between old-school nationalism and the alt-Right is one of perspective: the far-right Zionist nationalists look at you as an insider, whereas the alt-Right (and Gamergate, as you point out) look at you as an outsider.

If you were Palestinian, meaning that the far-right Zionist nationalists saw you as an outsider, what do you think your response to them would be?

misophistry
misophistry
2 years ago

I’ve had a lot of success using argument and debate against reactionaries but this lot don’t sound like they would stop and listen. If these particular nazis were coming to my town I know what I’d do. Although I would be forever tainted with the mark of cain it would be my gift to the world to live with it. I can’t believe I’m saying that really but I won’t take it back. They have gone beyond humanity and are an existential threat to our existence. We are worth fighting to protect, do not let them tell you otherwise.

Of course we hope that a sensible government would declare them a hate group and have them arrested for plotting acts of terror. Once safely incarcerated perhaps some form of rehabilitation could be attempted. That would be the right way to do it. Sad that it won’t happen while you have the cheeto in chief. So happy that my country has declared right wing extemism for what it is and banged em up.

I had a big argument with an anarchist the other day, and this feeds into it. Isn’t it better that we have institutions to keep the dangerous ones incarcerated, than to have to defend oneself with potentially lethal force? That’s not to say that government doesn’t overuse prison. I think prison should be reserved for violent or dangerous crimes.

personalpest
personalpest
2 years ago

Glad you’re feeling better, Katie! Take care of yourself.

misophistry
misophistry
2 years ago

Gadget was the best cartoon mouse mechanic. xxx

Moggie
Moggie
2 years ago

Mish:

Unrelated note: it’s already March 8 here, so Happy IWD everyone

Also known as International “so when is international men’s day what do you mean it’s November 19th” day. As always, Richard Herring will be busy.

Arctic Ape
Arctic Ape
2 years ago

Age of consent.

As applicable.

To gang rape.

Because you know, you don’t want to seem like a creep or anything.

I think a lot of people perceive child sex abuse as sexual normativity issue, rather than sexual consent issue.

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