By David Futrelle
A big round of applause for two websites that have featured here on We Hunted the Mammoth from the beginning: A Voice for Men and Return of Kings have both been officially recognized by the Southern Poverty Law Center as hate groups.
The hate-monitoring group announced the news in its latest “Year in Hate” report yesterday. “[F]or the first time,” the report declared,
the SPLC added two male supremacy groups to the hate group list: A Voice for Men, based in Houston, and Return of Kings, based in Washington, D.C. The vilification of women by these groups makes them no different than other groups that demean entire populations, such as the LGBT community, Muslims or Jews, based on their inherent characteristics.
Both groups have more than earned this long-overdue designation. If you need to be reminded just how, take a stroll through the archives here for literally hundreds of examples of hateful rhetoric and actions by both AVFM and RoK, and/or their respective founders, Paul Elam and Roosh V.
You may also notice, in your stroll through the archives, that both AVFM and (especially) RoK have embraced some of the most noxious views of the racist alt-right directly. Indeed, one of the most notorious participants in the racist Charlottesville march last year — a man jailed for his assault on a counterprotester — was a former contributor to AVFM.
Elam’s response so far to his recognition as a hatemonger by the SPLC has actually been somewhat tame, at least by his standards.
https://twitter.com/anearformen/status/966383611841859586
https://twitter.com/anearformen/status/966386487846686725
He also retweeted this lovely sentiment from someone whose Twitter handle is a not-very-subtle reference to the c-word.
https://twitter.com/KruntFrucker/status/966385645743755264
This dude was even more pissed:
https://twitter.com/has_baal/status/966405995999227904
Roosh’s response to his inclusion on the list was a bit, shall we say, ironic as well:
https://twitter.com/rooshv/status/966402313341595652?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Thanks for proving the SPLC’s point, guys!
The SPLC report also notes a number of other discomfiting facts, starting with this one:
The SPLC’s Year in Hate and Extremism report identifies 954 hate groups – an increase of 4 percent from 2016.
Some of this increase, the report says, was due to a resurgence of fringe black nationalist groups — which the SPLC is quick to distinguish from “activist groups such as Black Lives Matter and others that work for civil rights and to eliminate systemic racism.”
But the real danger comes from the racist right.
[B]lack nationalist groups lagged far behind the more than 600 hate groups that adhere to some form of white supremacist ideology – and they have virtually no supporters or influence in mainstream politics, much less in the White House.
Within the white supremacist movement, neo-Nazi groups saw the greatest growth – from 99 groups to 121. Anti-Muslim groups rose for a third straight year. They increased from 101 chapters to 114 in 2017 – growth that comes after the groups tripled in number a year earlier.
Ku Klux Klan groups, meanwhile, fell from 130 groups to 72. The decline is a clear indication that the new generation of white supremacists is rejecting the Klan’s hoods and robes for the hipper image of the more loosely organized alt-right movement.
The overall number of hate groups likely understates the real level of hate in America, because a growing number of extremists, particularly those who identify with the alt-right, operate mainly online and may not be formally affiliated with a hate group.
These groups not only spew hatred; they have helped to spur a frightening rise in racist violence — and murder.
A separate SPLC investigation, released earlier this month, found that 43 people were killed and 67 wounded by young men associated with the alt-right over the past four years. Seventeen of the deaths came in 2017.
So AVFM and RoK are in some pretty shitty company here.
Yeay, i was missing Scildfreja Unnyðnes scientific explanations !
So, copulin would be a potential copulation enhancer ? I did not know that. I think i had read that pheromons were almost no more percieved by humans (and that was the reason that pheromon perfumes and the like were just scams).
Wait, if copulin is really linked to couplation, but they believe it is to manipulate men, how should it be called ? Cheirismandrolin ?
I nominate kynodesmin as the name. 😛
@occasional reader,
I’m not a science-person (I’m in the dreaded social sciences), but I’ve also read that pheromones are weaker in humans, relative to other animals.
Science mammotheers, pls weigh in!
@Shadowplay
I had to look that up, tbh. But it’s a winner ??
Watching Scildfreja explain things to incels reminds me of Fluttershy explaining the construction flaws of a dress she wanted to be more haute couture. Except Scildfreja has more facts at her disposal.
I think she wins hands down the award for kindest-most-collected-person. As in, I cannot fathom myself, or anyone I know, having 0.1% of her patience in dealing with these people.
Then again, I also think it’s for naught. You will be hard pressed to argue against these fools who will never be swayed of their positions. I spent half my life trying to talk sense into conservatives, only for them to double down on the racism.
Reading Scildfreja’s beautiful, informative, implacable and amazingly kind takedowns makes me so happy.
So, conservatives on Twitter are saying that while they of course totally condemn the death threats Parkland survivors are getting for speaking out against guns and the NRA, how can we know for sure they’re from NRA supporters?
https://twitter.com/AllenCMarshall/status/967622810414800896
Because it would make so much sense for pro gun control people or people with no opinion on control to threaten them.
It’s like gamergate all over again. And it wouldn’t surprise me if there was an overlap between gamergate harassers and gun fetishist harassers.
Its definitely not for naught. The person the takedown is primarily directed at my never absorb any of the information, but a lot of other people are reading it.
The effort put into this work is appreciated.
You folks were speaking of Oglaf earlier, I remember one that mentioned the Anglerfish and anthropomorphized their… ahem, unusual dimorphism in a funny and verrry NSFW way (certain Anglerfish species have males a fraction of the size of females that live only to latch onto the underside of a female, feeding off their nutrients in exchange for donating sperm). The dapper housecoat-clad Anglerfish fellow relates the takeaway: nature produces life forms so alien to us that we reaaaaally shouldn’t be looking to it for human analogies.
Speaking as a guy who was educated in the hard sciences, I’m honestly getting really sick of people bastardizing sciences in the way that they are. Because when I was in my high school science classes, learning all sorts of new things about atomic theory and waveforms and chemical reactions… science was something bigger than an individual. It was not only the way that we explained what we saw around us, but it expanded what was once a narrow world of understanding, biology and sociology working together to bring illumination to the human tableau.
So to see is being constantly abused by transphobic asshats like Ben Shapiro and racists like Charles Murray and these incel creeps that reach for anything to explain why they don’t have to do any kind of introspection, it just pains me to see. And if they’re not pedantically exploiting some statistic or some narrow technical definition, they’re going around proclaiming any kind of science that invalidates their prejudices as somehow “not real science.” This trend really bothers me as somebody with even a passing understanding of the history of science and I don’t see it getting better when even the sciences are being culture jammed by these obnoxious twits.
@weirdwoodtreehugger
I think there’s definitely a bit of an overlap, and I may be speaking from a place of ignorance, but from my experience the gun enthusiasts seems to be mostly in their 40s and above, meaning Gen X and Boomers; whereas the Gamer Gate crowd is almost exclusively Millennials.
Personally, I’ve seen most of these threats of bodily harm coming from the older side of the spectrum (at least in regard to this particular issue), although this is undoubtedly a common tactic of authoritarian assholes, most of whom are on the Right side of the political spectrum.
And I do admit that, for the most part, semi-automatic weapons should be banned, but some small part of me worries about how these people will react if they lose the midterms and 2020 by a landslide. Remember they set fire to one of Roy Moore’s accusers in Alabama.
@Carl Gordon
I see. Well, so long as it’s for someone else’s benefit then it’s actually useful to refute these sort of ignorant positions.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ak4UA_5FypY/U10NFhWsGyI/AAAAAAAAHF0/8yfCsvXP36s/s1600/Rarity_asks_Fluttershy_for_some_feedback_S1E14.png
Well, he wanted an opinion, I assume!
daw, you guys, thank you <3 I – well, I was gonna say it baffles me how the incels can be wrong on this stuff when all you gotta do is a little looking and the answer falls into your lap. But it doesn't baffle me, it just makes me sad.
@Incel Revolutionary, I know you're probably never coming back, but if you are reading – learn to google things with discrimination! The googs is great, but it also have evidence for everything on it! Heck, there’s evidence supporting flat earth theory and chemtrails on there! You have to learn how to discern. If you want help with that, say so! I will help!
@Mish, social sciences are absolutely sciences too! They’re vital, and frankly the math is much harder than the other sciences. I mean sure you don’t have to do the esoteric calculus and field equations in engineering, but there are computers that can handle a lot of that. Social sciences are just volume. So much volume, impossible volume. Very challenging, and much respect!
@occasional reader,
As far as I can tell, copulins are just a chemical in vaginal secretions, and I don’t know whether they operate through the olfactory-VNO system that pheromones do. “Normal” pheromones are detected by very, very selective olfactory receptors from the air, and then activate a little nerve bundle called the vomeronasal organ. From there they scoot off to the amygdala/hypothalamus (by normal neural activity,
not the invasion of the pheromone body snatchers). From there the brain-bits activated will increase or decrease the production of certain hormones/neuropeptides. Copulins might use this mechanism, or might not, we aren’t sure. If so, then the signal the VNO/Hypothalamus system eventually sends is “make some more testosterone please, there is a lady here what is getting close to ovulation.”
There are two big problems with the premise that our incel revolutionary is claiming. First is that the actual studies examining copulin activity on the brain are not really clean. They’re exposing men to copulins and then asking them to rate the attractiveness of women’s faces in photos, as an example. They found that men exposed to copulins rated the women consistently more attractive than those who were not. Which is a fine study methodology, but it entangles a lot of things, because the men weren’t exposed to copulins, they were exposed to vaginal secretions. There’s a lot of stuff going on there and they weren’t separated! It’s a little baby step, not a breakthrough of the “ohmigod womz turn men into zombos” variety.
Second one is much more important: testosterones’ effect on humans is not consistent. We’re social, with big brains and complex motivations; pheromones don’t really do a whole lot to us overall and hormones express in lots of different ways. Excess testosterone increases aggression – except in cases where it decreases aggression, which it can do. Testosterone increases libido in men – and in women. Yeah, if a womz has copulin sensitivity, copulins might affect her just as they would a man. This might incidentally be a biological root of lesbian behaviour (one of many, probs!). That’s a really interesting question, but of course it hasn’t been tested because science has a sexism problem, but it’s one worth looking into in my opinion! Interesting!
An increase in testosterone from copulins will have one result: an increase in testosterone. How that expresses in behaviour is very situational.
I done a ramble! Sorry guyse. I get carried away.
EDIT: Oh, and yes, I don’t write these posts for the trolls generally. Sometimes! I mean, if he comes back that’s great, let’s have a talk! But otherwise it’s for others who are reading the thread. I don’t want later readers to get the impression that these trolls have any actual science behind them, cause that’s just… offensive.
@wwth, I’m, like, 85% sure that the gamergate crowd is now the neonazi crowd. That was basically the Breitbart radicalization channel, after all. WoW gold sellers -> GamorGert -> ButHerEmails -> Nazis. Bannon’s history is pretty clear on it.
I just wish this whole “False flag!” explanation would wither and die. I mean, it never will, but I hates it so much. It’s so lazy. Like, I don’t know how anyone claiming to be a True Skeptic ™ can make the claim without immediately bursting into flames. Not to mention how offensive it is. Like, their rationalizations are just ways they justify being horrible, awful people. Harassing teenage survivors of gun violence. That’s what they’re justifying with the thinnest skein of justification. It’s disgusting.
That said, if anyone wanted to do any actual false flags, now is the time. Those dorkuses couldn’t suss out a false flag with two hands and a heraldry book.
I’m probably even more than 85% sure given that gg and the alt right share a few common celebs such as Milo, Juicebro and Ralph Retort. Not to mention all the times that gg used anti-Semitic “cultural Marxism” memes.
@Scildfreja
I agree, the False Flag is the lowest hanging fruit and the laziest and easiest way to “refute” almost anything; because, as ridiculous as it sounds, it shifts the burden of proof to others. They are quite aware of this and Brandolini’s law, where the amount of energy necessary to disprove bullshit is much more than the energy required to produce it.
You can’t win. You just can’t. Not with arguments.
On the other hand, can we take the time to appreciate how the generation vilifying the survivors for being dumb kids who eat tide pods (which was at most 10 kids), subscribe to these stupid conspiracy theories in the millions?
Yeah, I agree. It’s pretty obvious that the angry video game mans have gotten radicalized over the past decade or so, and now feel bold enough to say so outside of the chans. (I just don’t like rating confidence above 85% ’cause I’m a cautious clarisse)
And yes, Diego, you can’t win with arguments. The arguments are for fence-sitters, really, and to help clarify things for people who agree but aren’t sure why. Getting through to these people requires, uh, well. More positioning than i have, I think.
Some good news:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/dominicholden/a-federal-court-just-ruled-for-gay-rights-in-a-major?utm_term=.hajOd7kXm#.xhe2RovG0
For some people, “skeptic” appears to mean, “I shout loudly when I hear about something that doesn’t make sense to me.”
@Scildfreja
Oh, I’m no longer commenting in relation to your takedown of Incel Revolutionary, which I understand it was for everybody else’s benefit because it does involve some pseudo-science; but in regard to conspiracy theories, which are far too ridiculous for anyone to believe.
Pretty much, to buy into conspiracy theories you have to be the sort of person who would be willing to blame victims from the get-go. Nothing is going to sway you because you have a vested interest in looking the other way, and ignoring every bit of evidence in how the systems and structures of power, which are built to uphold and maintain your privileges, dis-empower and damage everyone else.
@Vicky P, yeah, the Troo Skeptics seem to think of skepticism as a weapon, directed outwards. They use it to protect their beliefs from outside threats. They don’t seem to be that motivated to use that skepticism on anything they already believe.
And that’s a really interesting way to think of it, @Diego! I’d never really thought of conspiracy theory thinking as being mostly about excusing awful behaviour, but maybe that’s what’s going on here! Like, is the theorist motivated specifically so they don’t have to feel bad about their racism/misogyny/miserliness? My gosh, Scientology makes sense now. That’s how it works.
Thank you!
Bite me, Gavin McInnes.
https://angrywhitemen.org/2018/02/26/the-splc-officially-classifies-the-proud-boys-as-a-hate-group/
Trump would be funny if he wasn’t the POTUS
“I really believe I’d run in there, even if I didn’t have a weapon,”
-Trump on Parkland shooting
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-says-he-would-have-run-florida-school-n851266?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma
@Scildfreja
Well, this is just my take on the thing but look at the mainstream (ironic, yes) conspiracy theories of our time. From 9/11 to Pizzagate, most if not all conspiracy theories have to do with some sort of Deep State, running government from the shadows.
Now, anyone with common sense would tell you that this is no conspiracy at all, because the agents behind government are the powerful lobbyists and corporations who buy politicians, mostly from the Republican side but also on the Democrat side too.
Except, these people engage on Olympic level gymnastics to deflect blame not to the corporations and companies, which uphold the current social and economic system of oppression against women and vulnerable groups; but to some overly villainous, super-secret societies run by *gasp* The Jews.
So, even in the face of blatant oppression, many Whites will entirely buy into and spread conspiracy theories, painting vulnerable groups as gullible idiots, and the Jews as the mastermind behind such deep-level conspiracy.
The conspiracy crowd has concocted theories to discredit the events and protests ranging from Occupy Wall Street to Standing Rock.
So yes, personally I would say they are nothing but a tool of the privileged to deflect blame, in the cheapest manner possible, in order to avoid taking responsibility for their actions.
But I could be wrong.
EDIT: Also note that the purpose seems to be, at best, to make you waste your effort fighting imaginary foes; and at worst to actually TAKE DOWN and dismantle any and every institution designed to address systemic oppression (i.e. Affirmative Action).
One of the last straws that finally made me break off a relationship with a relative was because he kept posting false flag claims about school shootings (as well as other conspiracy theory nonsense) on his Facebook feed. I tried to reason with him, but it did no good at all. His increased enthusiasm for guns (including the semi-automatic variety) was also freaking me out. I’m hoping maybe someone else on the fence saw my public plea for better judgement and maybe it got them thinking. I had to try… *sigh* If there was a way, I wish I knew how.
@Scildfreja
Given that the gaming industry lobbyists learned to cultivate the “gamer” identity right from the NRA, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least. All the behaviour matches up: the harassment, the projection, the conspiracy theories, all of it.
@Vicky P
Yeah, it certainly does now. I was reflecting the other day on how many “skeptic” channels I’ve had to unfollow because they started wading into anti-feminism and essentially I have only two or three left in my subscriptions: AronRa and the Atheist Experience. I’m also subbed to JDKain, but only because he only uploads once a week. DarkMatter? Gone. Dusty Smith? Hella gone. Amazing Atheist? Gone. ArmouredSkeptic? Gone. LiveLife8822? Gone. C0ctopus? Gone. BionicDance? Gone. Thunderf00t? The first one gone. All these guys (and they’re mostly guys) just doubled down on the anti-feminism to an absurd degree to the point that a couple are pretty much alt-right these days.
And I’ve been asking myself how it got to this point and I have to think at least part of it is the end of the Bush Administration culture wars. Sam Seder noted on his podcast that whenever right-wingers take power, they bring with it a renewal of culture war crap. During the Bush years, it was gay marriage and the 10 Commandments. Now it’s transgender pronouns and “freeze peach,” but at the time, there was an urgency surround the right’s obvious desperation to shift the focus away from Bush’s fuck-ups. Creationists on YouTube were all over the place and there was a thirst for people to push back against the bullshit. However, I started to notice that YouTube’s atheists seemed to just talk about the same three people over and over again as the big name Creationists of that medium either stopped uploading or moved on to other venues. Then when ElevatorGate happened, it was the perfect time for a shift in focus from Christians to Feminists/Muslims as the Obama administration’s successes had laid the groundwork for a backlash and it was clear at that point that the Creationists aren’t coming back to lean on. Well, what do you know, the right-wing hates Muslims and Feminists too, so all that righteous furor about how fundamentalist Christians were trying to seize the levers of power were turned to… Rebecca Watson feeling uncomfortable being propositioned in an elevator and Anita Sarkeesian critiquing video games.
Once Thunderf00t demonstrated dumping on feminists was profitable, GamerGate was just a matter of time.
Meanwhile, JDKain puts out a weekly video mocking the last two Young Earth Creationists on YouTube for saying the same dumb shit they did the week before. They lean on each other like a pair of drunks.
Where this goes from here? Not sure. If there’s one upside to the internet doing away with gatekeepers and social barriers, we find out how alike we really are to the point that there’s fewer and fewer boogeymen that can be used to induce panic. If they’re reaching to rainbow-haired trans kids, that means they’re desperate.
@Scild, Diego
I know two conspiracy types and they’re both sweet people. One of them is definitely open to self-examination, the other not as much. I think for both of these people it’s driven by paranoia rather than excusing bad behavior. I think that the type of thinking that’s behind it is very common, and that type of thinking can be used for all kinds of applications.
I do wonder if groups like the NRA aren’t feeding into that kind of thought pattern to further their own goals (yes, this is a conspiracy theory, no I don’t have any evidence to back it).