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Congrats! A Voice for Men and Return of Kings have both been designated hate groups by the SPLC

Paul Elam of A Voice for Men: Now officially a hatemonger

By David Futrelle

A big round of applause for two websites that have featured here on We Hunted the Mammoth from the beginning: A Voice for Men and Return of Kings have both been officially recognized by the Southern Poverty Law Center as hate groups. 

The hate-monitoring group announced the news in its latest “Year in Hate” report yesterday. “[F]or the first time,” the report declared,

the SPLC added two male supremacy groups to the hate group list: A Voice for Men, based in Houston, and Return of Kings, based in Washington, D.C. The vilification of women by these groups makes them no different than other groups that demean entire populations, such as the LGBT community, Muslims or Jews, based on their inherent characteristics.

Both groups have more than earned this long-overdue designation. If you need to be reminded just how, take a stroll through the archives here for literally hundreds of examples of hateful rhetoric and actions by both AVFM and RoK, and/or their respective founders, Paul Elam and Roosh V.

You may also notice, in your stroll through the archives, that both AVFM and (especially) RoK have embraced some of the most noxious views of the racist alt-right directly. Indeed, one of the most notorious participants in the racist Charlottesville march last year — a man jailed for his assault on a counterprotester — was a former contributor to AVFM.

Elam’s response so far to his recognition as a hatemonger by the SPLC has actually been somewhat tame, at least by his standards.

https://twitter.com/anearformen/status/966383611841859586

https://twitter.com/anearformen/status/966386487846686725

He also retweeted this lovely sentiment from someone whose Twitter handle is a not-very-subtle reference to the c-word.

https://twitter.com/KruntFrucker/status/966385645743755264

This dude was even more pissed:

https://twitter.com/has_baal/status/966405995999227904

Roosh’s response to his inclusion on the list was a bit, shall we say, ironic as well:

https://twitter.com/rooshv/status/966402313341595652?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Thanks for proving the SPLC’s point, guys!

The SPLC report also notes a number of other discomfiting facts, starting with this one:

The SPLC’s Year in Hate and Extremism report identifies 954 hate groups – an increase of 4 percent from 2016.

Some of this increase, the report says, was due to a resurgence of fringe black nationalist groups — which the SPLC is quick to distinguish from “activist groups such as Black Lives Matter and others that work for civil rights and to eliminate systemic racism.”

But the real danger comes from the racist right.

[B]lack nationalist groups lagged far behind the more than 600 hate groups that adhere to some form of white supremacist ideology – and they have virtually no supporters or influence in mainstream politics, much less in the White House.

Within the white supremacist movement, neo-Nazi groups saw the greatest growth – from 99 groups to 121. Anti-Muslim groups rose for a third straight year. They increased from 101 chapters to 114 in 2017 – growth that comes after the groups tripled in number a year earlier.

Ku Klux Klan groups, meanwhile, fell from 130 groups to 72. The decline is a clear indication that the new generation of white suprem­acists is rejecting the Klan’s hoods and robes for the hipper image of the more loosely organized alt-right movement.

The overall number of hate groups likely understates the real level of hate in America, because a growing number of extremists, particularly those who identify with the alt-right, operate mainly online and may not be formally affiliated with a hate group.

These groups not only spew hatred; they have helped to spur a frightening rise in racist violence — and murder.

separate SPLC investigation, released earlier this month, found that 43 people were killed and 67 wounded by young men associated with the alt-right over the past four years. Seventeen of the deaths came in 2017.

So AVFM and RoK are in some pretty shitty company here.

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Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
6 years ago

Where this goes from here? Not sure. If there’s one upside to the internet doing away with gatekeepers and social barriers, we find out how alike we really are to the point that there’s fewer and fewer boogeymen that can be used to induce panic. If they’re reaching to rainbow-haired trans kids, that means they’re desperate.

To a good place, I’d like to think. After the Gamer Gate fiasco, the neonazi movement seems to have peaked with Charlottesville. The murder of Heather Heyer lost these rubes the support of many people within conservative politics and they have been getting the boot everywhere they go.

Yes, the Nazis are still a huge threat, but at least they’re losing ground thanks to their blatant toxicity. They’ve hit their wall. Now what needs to be done is reclaim the lost ground. I think the midterms are going to be pivotal to throw them out of power, for good.

The irony is that the Alt Right was meant to reinvigorate the dying conservative movement; instead, by making it explicitly toxic (or at least, more than it already was), they finished it off quicker than anyone on the Left could’ve hoped to.

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
6 years ago

@Kupo

I see. Although I think your acquaintances are a far cry from the Alex Jones crowd. People with mental health issues are more likely to be victims than abusers, and the regular conspiracy theorist takes gaslightning to whole new levels.

What sort of conspiracies do they believe though?

As far as the NRA is concerned, they live off of fear in order to boost the sales of their sponsors, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they explicitly did it.

Bakunin
Bakunin
6 years ago

@ Katamount

Aww, crap. Dusty too? He had some videos I liked, and the style was fun. Then again, I was surprised by Laci Green falling into the fascist camp, so I might just be a bad judge of character.

Currently watching the same script they all follow for Krauss’s creepy shit.

kupo
kupo
6 years ago

@Diego
I kind of tune out when they go into conspiracy mode and haven’t talked to either of those people in a while, but one I remember had to do with lawyers practicing law in the US (all of them) being implants from Britain to attempt to corrupt US law somehow? I couldn’t quite follow it. That same guy refused to file his taxes and wouldn’t listen when I tried to explain that the major corporation he worked for had already paid the taxes for him and that filing would get him a refund on the extra he paid.

And sorry if you were only referencing Alex Jones and the like. I thought you meant all conspiracy theorists. I would agree with you on him.

Edit: neither of these people would ever put up a YouTube channel because then they might get identified. They probably avoid posting or obfuscate their IP address if they do. One of them was planning to go off the grid, so might not even have internet access at this point.

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
6 years ago

@kupo

Yeah, those people you’re describing seem to be actually paranoid. People with legit mental health issues.

I didn’t take them into account when I made my statements because, honestly, at this point conspiracy theorists have become so mainstream that to speak of them is to speak of libertarian/paleo-conservative/Rand-roid, anti-Semite, racist, misogynist assholes.

Their levels of toxicity and notoriety are so high that I legit did not stop to consider the people who were actually suffering from mental health issues when the term “conspiracy theorists” came up, so I apologize on that front.

I guess that’s another group that gets screwed over by the Alex Jones crowd.

On another note, should the Right Wing conspiracy theories be viewed as another form of gaslightning? Considering they do somehow shift blame to vulnerable groups for their own situation.

Katamount
6 years ago

@Kupo

I think for both of these people it’s driven by paranoia

Which I can understand and appreciate to a certain extent. The popularity of the X-Files didn’t come out of a vacuum; an opaque surveillance state only gaining power only made people more unwary. Couple that with encroaching corporate power over the government and social media all but reading your mind to sell you shit… I get feeling paranoid. But there’s things in your power to do that don’t involve tinfoil hats.

ETA: @Bakunin

He’s redeemed himself somewhat by opposing the alt-right, but he has much farther to go to get back into my good graces after his rampant Facebook racism and homophobia. Dick Coughlin pointed out that Facebook Dusty and YouTube Dusty were basically two different people (although racist Dusty still reared his head on YouTube given his “Black Christians are Uncle Toms” hypothesis).

He strikes me as a guy desperate for attention more than having any core values.

JoeB
JoeB
6 years ago

I’m not on YouTube much anymore but I’m a fan of his twitter and he might still make content, C0nc0rdance(sp)

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

Re: mental illness.
We have a problem as a society with more than one part. One big part is the fact that we include natural features of human behavior in the category. PTSD and anxiety disorders are reasonable responses to shitty experiences. When I read about the childhood experiences of people with the label psychopath I can see how a person would experience the world in that way. I think depression is what our brain does when we have certain experiences. (I’m not judging anyone taking medication to get by, this is more about underlying causes and figuring out how to fix society and learning how we shift mood states and functionally use instincts that are as old as social behavior, you do you).
I straight up believe that adhd, autism, tourettes syndrome, bpd, schizophrenia and many other things are in things are in this category as well. I was predisposed towards the more intense and impulsive ends of social feeling and expression, and I have the issue where I collect urge-based habits as I go through life, and my society reasonably needs a means of preparation and education so I’m in control of myself as an adult that’s themed for whatever my kind of human ends up being the best lables.

These labels are explanations and not excuses, if you’ve hurt someone, or violated their boundaries and keep doing it despite negative reactions, you need to fix your shit. Yes society sucks here when it comes to your part of this mess, I won’t post my list again because this isn’t about that outside of the general issue in this comment. I’m quite sure a great many serial shooters are depressed, it’s not an excuse for serial shooting. I’m sure a great many among the online mysogynistic murmerations have one or more of the kinds of depression. Instincts have a library of expressions, that is no excuse for this one.

Those things are not the same as damage from injury, infection, or developmental effects from environmental toxins either, though the same thing about hurting others still applies, at worst we accommodate as a group while creating social tools that prevent harm (like me controlling my urge-based instincts). They are not same as congenital conditions that cause individuals to suffer at the level of huntingtons disease either.

I can’t claim to have all of the answers, it’s a big bad language problem but I’m always thinking about and looking for politically useful tools to chip at the problem since this one is so common and mostly regardless of politics and political affiliation (the left does the talk better but the walk needs work). Demanding someone tie specific diagnostic criteria to a sample of someone’s communication in the context of shootings and rationalization about testimony from victims is a current habit I’m working on. It’s more broadly useful but I’m selective about it at the present because of the need to maintain political momentum and my own endurance limits. There are other tools and I’m sure there’s more than one way to use mine.

We are all political primates with swarming behavior and I see a lot of people applying the label out of a need to avoid something they feel negatively about. It’s fear that sticks out to me like a neon sign and it’s all I can do push the predator away and dial things down to a level I’m still not sure how to define. So for now the mysogynistic trolls and other aggressive bigots I’ve managed to develop a filter for will just have deal with the tool I’ve got. Best methods are more of a group thing.

@kupo

I do wonder if groups like the NRA aren’t feeding into that kind of thought pattern to further their own goals (yes, this is a conspiracy theory, no I don’t have any evidence to back it).

IMO yes and no depending on the specifics and how you want to look at an example. But please let me know if I’m far from what you are discussing.

Fear is a motivator, humans are receptive to it and do politics with it. But not all fear is rational and the irrational sort fuels paranoia, and urge-based behavior. For example I think being a demogogue is a neutral in some respects, but that the reasonableness of the fear is what society needs to work on. I’ll bet what I do about people with predatory behavior intersects with what demogogues do, fortunately history has presented me with negative examples to learn from (recent and distant).

Conspiracy theorists tend to be big on making connections and immediate gratification in my experience, but very poor or nothing when it comes to actually being able to demonstrate a connection outside of their opinion. I put this one in the political solutions box since it’s likely that messages can be created that appeal to people that they have a personal connection with. Otherwise they get public criticism when they make a reckless connection and I hope someone they are personally connected to can explain it in private too.

kupo
kupo
6 years ago

Yeah, those people you’re describing seem to be actually paranoid. People with legit mental health issues.

Please don’t armchair diagnose my friends. Paranoia can be prefectly healthy behavior. To my knowledge, this doesn’t interfere with their lives other than the one guy putting himself at risk by not paying his taxes, but he’s aware of that risk and if he’s not bothered by his behavior, it’s not for us to say it’s unhealthy.

And by using legitimate as a qualifier here, you’re implying that others don’t have legitimate health issues. How would you know that?

Let’s please not go there. My only point was that conspiracy theorists are not always about hiding or excusing bad behavior. Let’s not group everyone with a very common behavior together in this.

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
6 years ago

Brony, I know you mean well but what you’re saying expresses really stereotyped attitudes towards the mentally ill. This in particular

I’m not judging anyone taking medication to get by

is incredibly condescending. Do you judge people with insulin-dependent diabetes for taking insulin to “get by?”

Please, just don’t.

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
6 years ago

Please don’t armchair diagnose my friends.

That wasn’t my intention, I was more or less repeating what you said, or at least I thought I was, given you were saying they had paranoia. Didn’t know it didn’t qualify as a mental health issue.

And by using legitimate as a qualifier here, you’re implying that others don’t have legitimate health issues. How would you know that?

My comment was in reference to the Alex Jones crowd, many of whom I’ve met. Those assholes are White supremacists, and very Nazi-adjacent, plain and simple. White supremacy and Nazism are not mental-health issues, those people are abusers.

In the event that they do have mental health issues, they are entirely unrelated to their White supremacist beliefs. Fuck them. I will take absolutely no excuses for the horrid, racist shit they spread.

EDIT: actually scratch the part about Nazi-adjacent. They ARE Nazis, given that they subscribe entirely to Holocaust denialism and have made this cartoon-villain conception of the Federal Reserve and The Jews, who plot to overthrow Christian and Western values by introducing feminism and the fight against racism in western societies. Not to mention they showed up to terrorize protesters in Ferguson.

Double fuck them.

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

@Hippodameia
I’ll think about it. Thank you for your input.

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

@Hippodameia
I’ll try that again. I had not anticipated that what I wrote would be condescending and I appreciate that you pointed this out to me. I’ll think about what I was doing and consider what I need to do.

kupo
kupo
6 years ago

That wasn’t my intention, I was more or less repeating what you said, or at least I thought I was, given you were saying they had paranoia. Didn’t know it didn’t qualify as a mental health issue.

Paranoia is not a mental illness. It’s a normal state that the brain can get into. It can be a symptom of some mental illnesses, but that doesn’t make it a mental health issue to experience it.

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
6 years ago

@Kupo

I see… I always thought of it as a mental illness of it’s own, rather than a symptom. Probably because that’s the way it’s usually portrayed in entertainment.

Interesting.

Robert Walker-Smith
Robert Walker-Smith
6 years ago

Full disclosure: my eldest son is diagnosed with psychosis (schizophrenic symptoms), currently unmedicated by his choice. He’s living in supervised, non-clinical housing. Regardless of what else he might or might not do, I believe that he would no more kill anyone than he would bite the back of his head.

Me, I’m diagnosed with chronic depression and currently on two antidepressants. I know exactly what it would feel like if I stopped taking them and I really don’t want to feel like that. I’m so non-violent that I play Civilization with War turned off.

People are justified in fearing mental illness, but not in fearing *people* with mental illnesses. Fear the people who think of people as things, because that’s where all real evil starts (h/t to Terry Pratchett).

CleverForAGirl - microprostitute
CleverForAGirl - microprostitute
6 years ago

Prepare yourselves mentally ill friends. The ass who wrote the book about depression and anxiety only being a product of trauma wrote an article on huffpo and all sorts of anti-med, victim blaming, ableist, woo peddlers are feeling emboldened.

(Seriously, I had a happy childhood and still have a loving, close-knit family. Who of course, fuck up, but aren’t evil. and my depression started in childhood. So seriously, fuck all the, ‘it’s just trauma’ people)

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
6 years ago

paranoia never is specifically mental illness. I don’t know where you heard this before, Diego. it is simply a reaction, sometimes to things which happened and sometimes to things from mental illness. maybe you misunderstood diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia or paranoid personality disorder when you thought paranoia is specifically illness. also, entertainment is not really very good source of correct info, especially since they often say false things about mental illness.

Hippodameia
Hippodameia
6 years ago

Brony, thank you.

Clever for a Girl – microprostitute: I think I know what book you mean. Is it the one where the author asks suicidal people a few questions and then they stop feeling suicidal because he’s so brilliant?

CleverForAGirl - microprostitute
CleverForAGirl - microprostitute
6 years ago

Hippodameia – Lost Connections, but the book you mentioned sounds absolutely infuriating.

azne
azne
6 years ago

@CleverforaGirl and Hippodameia – both of those just sound awful.

Along those lines, there’s a celebrity I like who announced some time ago he suddenly quit taking his antipsychotics. He’s from a culture that stigmatizes mental illness and having to take meds or go to therapy for it, and a meltdown hurt him before…It’s his choice, but what frustrated me most was that so many fans were just like “yay, you don’t need them anyway” and stuff…
As a person who relies on meds, it hurts to see people who blanket-hate on meds or victim blame about it.

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
6 years ago

I get really torn on the issue of psych meds: on the one hand, there’s this stupid idea that we don’t need them, we can just re-train our brains or eat this amazing-new-thing-that-big-pharma-won’t-tell- you-about…
On the other hand, I’m painfully aware of how govts and health systems can treat people with mental health problems as if we have no agency whatsoever.
Meanwhile, I take my meds, talk to my doctors, and also do what I can to help Mish (for me, that’s mostly yoga and other exercise – ymmv)

Shadowplay
Shadowplay
6 years ago

Grrrrrrrrrr 😛

on the one hand, there’s this stupid idea that we don’t need them, we can just re-train our brains or eat this amazing-new-thing-that-big-pharma-won’t-tell- you-about…

You don’t need a cast either, when you break your leg. Just stay really, really still for 6 weeks and you’ll heal just fine.

Yes, some forms of mental illness can be trained around, so they’re still there but less obtrusive into daily life and happiness. If the person is in the right state of mind to do it. Thats where the meds come in. Breathing space to heal and become functional, same as with pain killers.

Know you know this – it’s just one of my pet peeves (This one I call Simon). 😛

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
6 years ago

There was a big meta study here very recently about the effectiveness of antidepressants. For those who wish to read more:

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)32802-7/fulltext

Executive summary: They work; some better than others.

Left_Wing_Fox
Left_Wing_Fox
6 years ago

@Scildfreja Unnyðnes

Hehe, you have no idea how appropriate that image is. I lost my job last year, and found a new position in Vancouver. I’m currently working on the High School AU version of that show.