By David Futrelle
FADE IN
INT. DEPARTMENT OF MOTOR VEHICLES
WOMAN WAITING IN LINE TO RENEW DRIVERS LICENSE:
Dude, could you maybe stop blatantly staring at my boobs?
GUY WHO JUST WROTE A 1000-WORD POST FOR RETURN OF KINGS TITLED “THERE’S NOTHING WRONG WITH STARING AT A WOMAN’S BREASTS”
This boils down to slandering healthy male sexuality as if there’s something abnormal in a man who feels sexual desire towards a beautiful woman and likes boobs and firm butts. The reality, of course, is that nothing could be more normal than this …
But even this mere feeling of desire and sexual interest towards women is slandered and labeled as something questionable these days. …
Why do people propagate this message so eagerly these days? I can only guess, but it seems quite clear to me that these people feel some kind of fear towards male sexuality. The male sexual desire itself is somehow scary or dangerous and should be denigrated and slandered so that men would begin to feel shame about their completely healthy desires.
In a certain way, these people want to castrate men: make men into sheepish “gentlemen” who no longer look women with “greedy eyes” and feel sexual desire towards them, or who at least are ashamed of it and keep it to themselves. This is a form of psychological castration and I can only feel a strong sense of contempt towards people who propagate this bullshit. …
The message is a malicious attempt to slander and denigrate normal male sexuality. “Gentleman” here seems to be a man who doesn’t even feel sexual desire towards women anymore and never looks at women with “greedy eyes.” In other words, an abnormal castrate instead of a healthy man. What a truly despicable agenda!
GUY turns to look at woman. She is gone. Everyone else is gone. He is locked inside the now-closed DMV.
FADE OUT
I find it satisfying while a random guy obviously is gawking at my breasts to say something akin to “they won’t do any special you know” or “you know the longer you stare isn’t going to convince me to show you their awesome glory”.
Yes they are larger than average but it’s not a spectacle. It’s not like they’ll shoot fireworks or grant 3 wishes to you
I’m pretty sure anyone who names himself after this guy
http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Respect-My-Authoritah-On-South-Park-Episode-When-Cartman-Becomes-a-Cop.gif
will never contribute anything useful to the conversation.
Apropos of nothing, “Retractable Breasts” ought to be a King Missile song, like “Detachable Penis”…
[Bolding mine]
A lot of people seem quick to see in others what they themselves are most guilty of, so the whole right-wing conviction that feminist men must be “virture signaling” or trying to get laid rather than, y’know, actually giving a shit about equality could be a supporting data point here.
Yeah, that, @Gaebolga. I try to avoid talking about projection, because it’s a human universal and not something that’s unique to them. It’s just an availability thing – if it’s something you do, it comes up as a possible reason for why others might behave the same way. The concept is more available, neurologically. But you’re entirely right that it’s real and it’s happening to them.
I doubt it’s a conscious thing, though. I think that they worry that they feel fake. They worry that they’re just posturing, that their positions are empty. So they shout their slogans louder, and claim that their opponents are empty. I imagine it’s an expression of insecurity.
Exactly so.
Agreed, especially since I suspect that people who are aware of their own failings might be a bit more precise in identifying those similarities in others.
Or at least I hope they are. For personal reasons, of course.
I’ve been saying for years that it’s the patterns we don’t know we’re following that define us…
Speaking of posturing, I had occasion to be reading up on something recently, and I was struck by how apposite this was in the Trump era…
(From the OSS profile of Hitler)
It’s not so much that I object to men noticing my breasts. It’s just that while they stare they’re ignoring my brains and sense of humour and creativity and love for my son and …
The day I can finally get a breast reduction will be glorious. A-holes have been gaping at them since they were inflicted on me when I was eleven. The only thing they’ve gotten me is PTSD from years of middle-school sexual harassment and assault. Oh, and back trouble. Fuck you, evolution, what the hell does anyone need boobs bigger than a B-cup for, anyway?
@Alan Robertshaw
I’m new, thank you for the welcome.
It’s worth noting that not everyone who voted for Trump is a Charlottesville neo-nazi. Almost all Republicans voted for Trump.
Most upper and middle class white people are, regardless of political affiliation, not overtly racist. Capitalism is international, and most of them have someone in their circle of association who’s not white. With the exception of billionaires (who usually vote Democrat because of their crony capitalist policies and their perverse aristocratic feminism (they care about their daughters and their economic prospects and therefore support the kind of neoliberal feminist nonsense we’re fed by the so-called “left-wing” media)) most of these people vote Republican.
The people I’m referring to are the people who read The Daily Stormer, who peddle anti-semitic canards and who join anti-immigrant militias. The kinds of men who join white student unions and bitch about minorities having rights. Most Republicans (at least the ones I’ve met) don’t do this, phrasing it in a kind of neoliberal “we’re all equal now” schlock. They just tolerate Trump because of their white class privilege they feel he’ll defend. This is out of self-interest, not hatred.
The people I’m talking about are the Roosh V’s, the Matt Forneys and the Andrew anglins. They are almost universally lower-middle-class white guys with ego issues who know their economic status in under threat but refuse to realize its capitalism that is the problem not immigrants. They oftentimes blame Jews like me for being more successful than them despite structural anti-semitism (we succeed because we’ve created alternate power networks to circumnavigate the troubles one has with not being an insider; anyone who believes we live in a “meritocracy” has no idea how capitalism works)
These are the kinds of assholes you meet at gun shows who sexually harass women and hate minorities. These are the kinds of people who show up to Trump rallies and scream “build the wall” and “white power”. I used to work in the arms industry. I know.
@Scildfreya
The large majority of the lower class are ethnic minorities, so much so Curtis Yarvin (of neoreactionary fame) referred to them as untouchables (a reference to the Indian caste system). When looking at economic data on voting, divide it by race. Most white trash vote right or at the very least right-leaning (Manchin, a Democrat, wins in WV by being something of a populist on economic issues and a social conservative). Most Republicans from the Midwest tend to be populist on economic issues, hence why most senators from there aren’t happy with Trump’s plan.
@LindsayIrene
I feel much the same way. The only difference is that my huge boobs get me a lot of very positive attention from sexual partners, so I don’t mind them.
Just because the upper classes are more polite than us ‘white trash’ types doesn’t mean they’re any less racist.
It isn’t male sexuality that’s scary, it’s creepy behavior. Staring is creepy, don’t do it.
@ female yid
You raise some interesting points. I suppose there could be an interesting semantic discussion as to whether wilful disregard for people, for whatever motive, amounts to hatred. Perhaps in the end it’s a distinction without a difference.
Similarly, the end result of ‘passive’ as opposed to active racism amounts to the same thing. One might not be out there with a tiki torch; but if you end up voting for someone who encourages the marching Nazis, even if all you’re bothered about is lower income tax, then you’re still facilitating that.
And having said all that there seems to be plenty of folks who will vote against their own self interest, so long as people they hate get shafted even more.
@LindsayIrene
I would argue they’re not more polite, either, based on my customer support experiences.
I really don’t care that certain Trump voters aren’t the sort to be openly Neo-nazi; at this point it’s a distinction without a difference.
Is the bar for racist now so high it’s set at neo-Nazi?
Trump is overtly racist. Voting for Trump is a racist act. Therefore Trump voters are either racist or don’t mind racism and feel comfortable voting for a racist which is effectively the same as being a racist. It does not matter if rich people know some rich people of color that they consider one of the good ones. They can still be racist.
White supremacy has always existed in the upper classes. They’re just as LindsayIrene said more genteel about it. Trump himself is evidence of this. Strom Thurmand is an older example. In the heyday of the KKK, many of the most influential and/or affluent people in small southern towns were members. White supremacy has never been exclusively a working class thing. If anything it’s the opposite.
And can you explain what you mean perverse aristocratic feminism and neoliberal feminist nonsense?
No. Just… No.
Kupo. Inasked you because you appear to have a sensitivity to such things. I didn’t mean it as some sort of passive aggressive thing.
Generational dysfunction may be a term i made up, but I’m pretty sure I’ve read it used before.
Anyway, I was talking about dysfunctional behavior that is passed from one generation to the next- as in, say, a person with a poor diet learned to eat that way because his parents fed them those foods, and so, they think that’s the way everyone eats. Or, to bring it around to the topic. Some dude who thinks its ok to abuse women because that’s how dear old mom and dad interacted. That sort of thing.
I’m sensitive to which things? And what gives you the impression that I’m “sensitive”?
> Is the bar for racist now so high it’s set at neo-Nazi?
I was explaining to Alan that I was referring to the kind of racist idiot that reads and contributes to ROK.
> Trump is overtly racist. Voting for Trump is a racist act. Therefore Trump voters are either racist or don’t mind racism and feel comfortable voting for a racist which is effectively the same as being a racist. It does not matter if rich people know some rich people of color that they consider one of the good ones. They can still be racist.
They’re not racist in the overt sense. Self-interest makes them ignore it in others. They might not be racist in their personal lives, but they either willfully choose to ignore racism because of their privilege or engage in a kind of “if minorities fail it’s their own fault” kind of neoliberal logic.
> White supremacy has always existed in the upper classes. They’re just as LindsayIrene said more genteel about it. Trump himself is evidence of this. Strom Thurmand is an older example. In the heyday of the KKK, many of the most influential and/or affluent people in small southern towns were members. White supremacy has never been exclusively a working class thing. If anything it’s the opposite.
It doesn’t anymore. As I’ve shown, most large businesses have diversity policies. Most billionaires vote left. Your typical white trash millionaire is the exception, not the rule.
> And can you explain what you mean perverse aristocratic feminism and neoliberal feminist nonsense?
What I’m referring to is Sheryl Sandberg’s brand of Lean In style feminist activism that assumes capitalism has no inherent flaws beside maybe being sexist once in a while and completely ignores racial issues. More often than not, this brand of feminism completely sidesteps the role class structures have in creating racial oppression.
Hippodaemia, there’s no doubt that he has a Barnum and Bailey sized sense of entitlement.
But, he literally said guys are shamed by such a trivial request for common courtesy. Not stifled or belittled. And that that simple request for decency turned all men into victimized involuntary eunuchs Now, maybe he was just aping a typical MRA script about everything being a plot to devalue males, or maybe it’s just his way of trying to be like the “cool kids” in his clique, but he seems to think it’s a logical conclusion that all men are being mutilared by this sort of request
It’s funny how his own example doesn’t even match his unwarranted resentment- the fictional woman said don’t BLATENTLY stare at my mammeries, not don’t discreetly stare at them.
If she had hypothetically told him that he shouldn’t stare at any woman’s breast, he might have had at least some justification for feeling oppressed by her discomfort.
Of course, a woman’s discomfort is not as important as a man’s right to be a dick
But I’ll bet dollars to donuts that if some guy next to him at a urinal was BLATENTLY checking out his Virile make member, , he’d pitch a fit.
Either he is incredibly unselfish aware, or a disingenuous twit or both. But I think he sincerely feels shamed
@Hexum7
And you feel sorry for him…why? On a site where we discuss the way men treat women like objects, why do you feel the need to chime in with pity for the men who are treatingg women like garbage?
Kupo. I did not mean sensitive to mean “over-sensitive” maybe that was the wrong word. I should have written that you seem to be attuned to and empathic with the concept that certain words or ways of phrasing can be problematic…..because I hadn’t even considered that a mocking post might be used to legitimize the thing it was intended to mock, until you pointed it out.
@Hexum7
I’m not here to do your emotional labor for you. I’m no more attuned or empathetic than the next person (less, if you consider my ability to read emotions from facial expressions).
These things are both overt racism. Just because someone engages in white supremacy without believing they’re engaging in white supremacy, doesn’t mean it’s not white supremacy.
A lot of this is because discrimination is against the law and because they want to avoid bad publicity. That doesn’t mean that corporate executives are not personally racist.
I’m not sure that this is the case, but if it is, so what? Billionaire is a very small sample. Even if the majority of billionaires in the US are Democrats, that does not mean poor white people are more racist than middle and upper class white people.
Just because you keep saying that, doesn’t make it true. Take a look at the entire caucus of the house and senate GOP. Full of racist millionaires. It’s just that before Trump came along, Republican politicians used the southern strategy. So that white people, many if not most of them middle and upper class could vote for racism and pretend like they weren’t.
And stop calling people white trash. It’s classist.
I’m not clear why you think Lean In feminism is bad considering your fondness for classist language and blaming white supremacy on poor people when it’s a system built and maintained by the wealthy powerful.
It’s not that I feel sorry for him so much as I think we should examine what causes the problem. My referring to him as “sad” was intended to mean that he, emotionally was sad, not that we should be pitiful.
But, in trying to figure out what might cause such mindsets, it’s inevitable that we become more empathic to their mental condition.
I’m not trying to do a Drumf ” there are good people in all sides” jive. He’s a bad actor, and a dangerous man, no matter what the cause