Telling dudes not to blatantly stare at boobs is basically castration, if you think about it

Submitted for your consideration…

…aaaaand, SCENE.

Hey, Troubelle! *waves*

Sometimes I wonder whether these RoK contributors are basically competing against themselves for who can be the most awful asshole.

I’ve had male coworkers stare at my breasts for minutes on end. It is one of the most uncomfortable experiences I’ve ever had. The complete lack of empathy these men have is just astonishing.

Hey, PeeVee. Been hanging back for most of the hiatus.

I understand completely! Nice to see you. I hope school is going okay for you! 😎

So far, it’s going alright! Last semester where I currently am, and then I’m transferring!

There is obviously more than enough reason to ‘fear male sexuality’, ‘cause many times it ends in the abuse and victimization of females, and even other males.

I think it’s about time that males learn to ‘reel it in’ and check themselves, as females have had to do and were expected to do since the beginning of time.

So no, you should NOT feel that it is some sorta right to make females self-conscious, uncomfortable and feel threatened, just so you can ‘uncastrated’. I have no sumpathy for you.

I can only guess, but it seems quite clear to me that these people feel some kind of fear towards male sexuality.

Almost, dude, but it’s not your sexuality that women are afraid of. “Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.” -Margaret Atwood

Lol, love your tv show version of this! I’m imagining the Twilight Zone theme in the background! Thank you for giving me a smile when I read this rather than just the creeps as it would without your frame!

Well, I see everyone else already has the fear of male desire and gaze covered.

I would also like to point out that finding breasts sexually attractive =/= blatantly staring at someone’s breasts. No one care’s if you like boobs. Lots of people – including lots of woman people – like boobs. You can still control yourself in public spaces and not gawk at strangers.

Seriously. I think staring being rude was one of the first pieces of etiquette I ever learned as a child. It didn’t even have anything to do with sex and sexuality. I was four years old. My friend and I were staring and pointing at a girl who had no arms. Our preschool teacher noticed and explained to us why that was not okay. Saying “don’t stare” is not some conspiracy against poor oppressed man boners. It’s simply basic manners.

@weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
Basic….Manners?! You dare to tell people to behave like decent human beings?! /gushing lemon marinated sarcasm

If being told not to stare is castration, what’s refusing to date him – murder?

I made the mistake of reading comments to that article. Some stare to make women uncomfortable but wouldn’t do that in a country where there are ‘good’ women.

Btw, I can only get to We Hunted the Mammoth via email, can’t pull it up from facebook. Not sure if it’s my own facebook problem or broader.

I’m sure staring at a women, or anyone really, makes them feel uncomfortable. It’s basic manners, but as always ” de hypergamy”.

I don’t even expect decency from MGTOWS, much less good manners.

I’m glad you’re feeling better, David.

Don’t want to be called “creepy”, men? Because doing this shit is how you earn that label.

Dear GUY WHO JUST WROTE A 1000-WORD POST FOR RETURN OF KINGS TITLED “THERE’S NOTHING WRONG WITH STARING AT A WOMAN’S BREASTS”…

Your logical fallacy is (drumroll please)…STRAWMAN!

Feminism does not complain about men experiencing sexual desire for women. It complains about men sexually objectifying women and failing to respect women’s agency and bodily autonomy. It complains about men being creepy fucks who ogle non-consenting women in public.

Keep on finding women sexy, dude. Keep on enjoying looking at breasts. Just remember that those breasts are attached to a living, breathing human being who may not want you slavering at her as she goes about her business.

This is sad. This sounds like someone who has been badly and continuously shamed as a child and now it distorts feels it about everything he doesn’t like- even something as minor as not staring at anyone or any of their body parts at any time.

Sadly also, the way most of us a bit older, we had parents who thought shaming children was a functional teaching method

Kupo- do you think that referring to generational dysfunction is wrong?

I just realized that it’s bordering on referencing pathology, and I don’t know if that is considered to be a mental illness.

The main problems I find with men blatantly staring at women’s boobs are 1) it’s rude and 2) it’s creepy. Men, it’s better not to look at a woman’s boobs unless she wants you to, but if you must, for the love of God, be subtle!

Nikki,

I read somewhere that women check out men as often as men check out women (these studies are always heterocentric) but women are better at hiding it. Like looking out of the corner of the eye instead of blatantly staring.

I read somewhere that women check out men as often as men check out women

They do. It’s a constant comment (and sometimes either a brag or a complaint) by soldiers who have returned from combat duty and are on leave – “women are constantly looking at me.”

but women are better at hiding it.

No. They really aren’t better at hiding it.

What they are is unthreatening, so who gets upset about it, or even bothers to notice it in the course of a normal life? It’s just another example of privilege.
The squaddies notice it for a while after coming back because they’re in the headspace where they’re still noticing everything as a potential threat. Fades after a month or so.

Ranty dude:

I can only guess, but it seems quite clear to me that these people feel some kind of fear towards male sexuality.

Well, a couple of things:

First, you can do more than guess, especially if you’re going to write a whole article about it. The internet isn’t just a place for posting your idiotic opinions, you can actually look stuff up on it, too!

Second, if your conclusion is that people are frightened of male sexuality, you might want to ask yourself why. You might want to ask yourself why your immediate assumption is that there’s something wrong with the people you accuse of fearing male sexuality, rather than something wrong with male sexuality itself as portrayed by you.

Here’s the cool part: you don’t even need the empathy you so obviously lack to grasp that flaw in your logic!

And there’s even more good news: empathy is one of the many things you can look up on the internet! It’s a thing you can learn and be better for it.

@Hippodameia

If being told not to stare is castration, what’s refusing to date him – murder?

If refusing to date him is murder, then what is refusing to have sex with him?!

Or — and perhaps this is much, much worse — not acknowledging his sexual needs due to having never met this scholar and gentleman!

I don’t know about the rest of the ladies here, but I feel very ashamed right now.

“How very dare you ask me to consider other people’s autonomy and desire to not be stared at and not my ALMIGHTY PENUS! I’m an ALPHUA MAYUNLY MAYUN, and as such, I should have women lining up for the opportunity to be gawked at by me! It’s all the fault of those feeeemales for having breasts! Clearly, they’re all afraid of my sexuality!”

This, dear commentariat, is a classic case of Headupass Syndrome. Symptoms include huffing your own farts, believing that other people should revolve around you, and long-winded screeds posted to various Trasheap Websites.

Look, I’m one of those queers who likes boobies, and I can tell you that sexual attraction to people with tits is no reason to be so grossly blatant about staring. Glances are fine (and natural), leering like some sort of cartoonish pervert is not.

It’s not endearing, it doesn’t make you more charming, it doesn’t give you more of a shot with the person attached to those boobs. It just makes them uncomfortable, and you look like a jackass.

And don’t get me fucking started on how queer feminine presenting people have to walk on fucking eggshells because we’re viewed as “predators” by some people, and this bullshit from cishet dudes doesn’t fucking help.

I know that Seinfeld isn’t exactly a role model, and his advice to George Costanza about this is literally objectifying, but it might be at this dude’s level: “Looking at cleavage is like looking at the sun. You don’t stare at it, it’s too risky. You get a sense of it and then you look away”.

@Kat

If refusing to date him is murder, then what is refusing to have sex with him?!

Probably that white genocide we keep hearing about.

@Pie
Mmm-hmm.

I know that Seinfeld isn’t exactly a role model, and his advice to George Costanza about this is literally objectifying, but it might be at this dude’s level: “Looking at cleavage is like looking at the sun. You don’t stare at it, it’s too risky. You get a sense of it and then you look away”.

*Donald Trump peers and points at solar eclipse from White House balcony*

(Sorry)

I don’t think this jerk has been shamed – I think he has a massive sense of entitlement and resents being called on it by someone he considers inferior.

And dudes, even if you’re subtle about it, we now when you’re staring!

I go by train and bus to work. Morning is fine. I travel very early, so most people are half asleep anyway.

Afternoon, however?

Oh boy. Plenty of creeps of all ages abound.

*Donald Trump peers and points at solar eclipse from White House balcony*

…and if he sees his shadow, we get 3 more years of fascism.

For a lot of these dudes, the staring *is* the sexuality. If they have to quietly appreciate boobs like mature adults, how will other dudes in the vicinity know he’s the alphaiest alfalfa, and how will the girl know she’s just a piece of meat for his greedy consumption? (Particularly important when she needs to be knocked down a peg, eg at work, going to school, on the street, etc) How will anyone know his boner is the most important thing in the room?

Nope, healthy male sexuality requires visible steam and horns going “Ah-OOO-ga!” It has to have an audience, otherwise it won’t get a cookie.

*sigh*

make men into sheepish “gentlemen” who no longer look women with “greedy eyes” and feel sexual desire towards them, or who at least are ashamed of it and keep it to themselves.

… and this is, what, bad?? drop the false equivalencies about “castration” and “ashamed”, and you’ve asked men to be decent and respectful… the horror….

Hi, Troubelle!!

Hello.

> Weirdwoodtreehugger

I read somewhere that women check out men as often as men check out women

Is it what is called “Stare wars” ?

And when speaking about man creepily staring at woman, that always makes me think about the Tex Avery Wolf. Stare and catcalling.

http://nsa39.casimages.com/img/2018/02/19/180219034455260858.jpg

Have a nice day.

I agree with Buttercup. It’s all about the swagger and the “notice me! Notice me noticing you!” with these guys.

I don’t want to know what it’s like to be so one-sided when it comes to sex. Part of the charge for me is knowing that my attentions are desired, that my enthusiastic consent is part of the fun, and that Mr. Parasol wants me to know I’m the woman he wants to get snuggly with (to put it politely) for the rest of our lives. It’s a dialogue, and only part of it is verbal.

Dude; like what you like, feel what you feel. Just drop the entitlement and don’t be a jerk about it.

….I like boobs too but you know you could respect the people attached to them. Just a thought.

….I like boobs too but you know you could respect the people attached to them. Just a thought.

WHAT??!!!

Don’t be such a beta cuck. If you go respecting them, next thing you know you’re listening to their crap. Maybe even, Barkow forbid, feeling empathy! That’s no way to get your dick wet, boy.

*wanders off to lift.

Edit to add, since things have been a little tense: the above is sarcasm.

If a man cannot bear
Being called out for his stare
Towards someone, holding untoward intent
Then perhaps it is best
Not to claim it was in jest
Nor actually the sign of a gracious gent

Let alone claim it’s castration
Suppose this is the state of the nation

When a fellow stares about
Feel free to give a shout
Calling for the one in question to get bent

Kupo- do you think that referring to generational dysfunction is wrong?

I’ve never heard of “generational dysfunction” before. Why are you asking me? Because I asked you to please not evaluate that dude’s looks in that other thread? I’m not the decider of community rules. If you have a question for the community, ask the community.

It seems like a sizable chunk of right-wing bullshit – the supposed affront of “political correctness,” the raging misogyny, and their incredible fragility when being called out for their crap, specifically – seems to have some basis in a deep desire to deny basic courtesy and understanding to entire classes of people while requiring that those classes of people extend them extreme courtesy and understanding.

It’s all rooted in conspicuous displays of power, of course, but the courtesy angle of those displays is catching my eye of late….

…and I’m very glad you’re feeling well enough to come back, David.

@Hexum7

It’s not that he’s been shamed, it’s that he hasn’t been shamed enough and feels he has the right to assert dominance over women’s bodies because women have dared not to suck his cock.

This is a feature of many of these limerent misogynists. Women don’t date me therefore there’s something wrong with women and not me. Typical male entitlement.

@Gaebolga

It’s more about political elites wanting to play the proles against each other in the oldest way possible: make them feel superior because of their race or nationality.

Lots of these idiots are very below average in every single way and seek to regain some of their lost glory through demonizing minorities and women.

As Lenin said, fascism is capitalism in decay. This resurgence in far-right activity correlates with massive increases in economic inequality. The proles can’t revolt against their masters, so they need an outlet.

@Female Yid

Good point; thank you for bringing it up.

Fragile egos enflamed by political mercenaries in service of insatiable plutocrats – what could possibly go wrong?

Telling dudes to not stare at boobs is basically castration, says the guy angrily staring at boobs and wondering why the women they’re attached to don’t want to give him the time of day.

He just wants ownership of something he thinks he deserves. Not for a relationship, or for sex, even. He wants the status of having a woman. It’s a social hierarchy thing. Just like @Gaebolga said,

It seems like a sizable chunk of right-wing bullshit – the supposed affront of “political correctness,” the raging misogyny, and their incredible fragility when being called out for their crap, specifically – seems to have some basis in a deep desire to deny basic courtesy and understanding to entire classes of people while requiring that those classes of people extend them extreme courtesy and understanding.

It’s hierarchical. Men-who-have-women occupy a higher social tier than men-who-are-single. He thinks he deserves to be on that higher tier, and he’s being blocked – by a woman, who he thinks is on an even lower social tier than he is. So it’s wrong, and an affront.

That’s all it is, and it’s all the right-wing bullshit is, too. Anger against political correctness? My social tier is higher than theirs, I shouldn’t have to be nice. Misogyny, racism? I occupy a higher tier. They should be nice to me, not the other way around. Where’s my mint julep.

This sort of misogyny, racism, blind anger? It’s all social positioning garbage. They were raised to believe they should hold a higher social position than they do, and they’re angry about it. And yeah, plutocrats can use that to *great* effect.

As a follow-up, and sort of digression, it’s sort of funny how much stronger social awareness right wing jerkbutts have than they care to admit. They all claim that they don’t care what other people think about, but their public perception is such a huge motivation for almost all of their positions.

Gun rights? All about being seen as strong and independent of others. Anti-choice demonstrations? Public profession of religious faith. Anti-environmentalism? See gun rights. Pro-capitalism to the point of self-destruction? See gun rights. Anti-education? Strong/independent perception, plus religious profession.

The people who believe those things have reasons for believing them, but they’re empty reasons. Any time you drill into them and start asking hard questions about efficacy and morality, they fall apart, fall back on insults and blame-shifting. Their positions feel like they’re just about declaring how tough and strong and independent they are, how they don’t need help, and how chosen they are. How entitled. Something-something-virtue-signal.

My homework will be finding out whether that’s true, and whether we lefties are as guilty of it as they are.

I’m a simple man.

If they showie, I lookie.

@ female yid

Hi, not sure if I’ve seen you around before, so welcome (if you’ve been posting for ages ‘hi again!’)

This resurgence in far-right activity correlates with massive increases in economic inequality.

I’m not sure I’m convinced by this. I seem to recall that, generally, right wingers are better off than left wingers. Thank to Kupo for digging me out the link below.

https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/polls/us-elections/how-groups-voted/groups-voted-2016/

I would agree though that people exploit supposed ‘economic anxiety’ to promote or excuse fascism.

I’m a simple man.

If they showie, I lookie.

Did you not realize that breasts are not retractable? They are there and visible. Nothing we can do about it. Existing in public as a person who happens to have breasts is not an invitation to stare.

@Cartman, please propel your penis report directly into the sun. Thanks!

@Alan, @Yid, #EconomicInsecurity,

It’s sort of a clever phrase, that. The right-wingers (I prefer to pronounce it as ‘right-whinge’rs) are more financially secure, but they feel insecure, because their middle-class mayonnaise is starting to slip down into the same tier as the poor people and minorities.

They’re scared, ’cause they’re starting to see what life’s like for people who don’t have it as good as they do. And they don’t deserve it, see; they’re supposed to be on a higher social tier.

Interesting how descriptive the social hierarchy explanation can be. Suggests it may be too broad. Hm. More thinking is required.

EDIT: I did a peek through the archives for Cartman; he’s commented for some time here but always with glib one-liners that don’t contribute anything. Normally I wouldn’t care about that, but with a crass “i like boobies” like that I’d like to call a troll challenge. Tell us why you think it’s a good idea to show up and say “I like lookin at boobies” on this post, @Cartman! Don’t be shy!

What @WWTH said times a million