By David Futrelle
The Internet’s incels long ago adopted Isla Vista killer Elliot Rodger, the maladjusted twentysomething who murdered six in cold blood as a kind of revenge for his “involuntary celibacy,” as a patron saint of sorts.
Now they are doing the same with Nikolas Cruz, the Florida teen who allegedly murdered 17 students and teachers at a high school in Parkland, Florida today. On Incels.Me — the web forum that Reddit’s incel population migrated to after the admins at Reddit shut their forum there down — one enthusiastic commenter got the discussion started by posting a thread titled “A hERo rises on this day of incel exclusion (Florida Valentines Day School Shooting).” (All links in this post go to archived pages.)
The capitalized “ER” in “hERo” is of course a reference to Elliot Rodger.
In the thread, assorted incels cheered as the details of the shooting came out over the course of the day, declaring their “immense respect” for their new “HERO.” And some wondered — with more than a little justification — if the shooter wasn’t one of their fellow commenters on Incels.Me.
“Respect to him if he kills over 60 normies,” a commenter called Towncel declared. “Hopefully he isn’t just using 2 pistols and actually has an assault rifle,” he added in a followup comment.
Vman, a prolific commenter with over 2500 posts on the site was already set to declare Cruz his new idol.
holy shit its on valentines day! what a fucking hero! we have a new model! PLZ BE UGLY PLZ BE UGLY. WE NEED INCEL AWARNESS
Spicycurry was a little more reserved. “Watch the news blame incels rather than the femoids who mock us and oppress us,” he groused.
lonelyistheworld has a rather different fear. “The media will probably try to cover up the fact that he’s an Incel,” he complained. “The elites know that there’s a huge problem with lonely men in the west.”
Naturally, many of the commenters hoped that most of the victims would be “femoids.”
“Hope his roastie kill count is high,” Reddit_is_for_cucks opined
Roastie contribute nothing to the society anyway, sll they do is shopping and suck chads dick and get free stuff from cucks
Incel_Dikshit concurred, expressing his hope that the shooter had “snagged some degenerate roasties and depsrate beta orbiters with him.”
“Roastie” is a favorite incel slur for (cis) women, whose labia are thought (by incels) to resemble roast beef.
Many of the commenters took great pleasure in the fact that this murder spree took place on Valentine’s Day. “LIFEFUEL,” declared one. “The best Valentines Day in history buddy boyos.”
When several commenters expressed their uneasiness at this open celebration of mass murder, they were denounced as “Jooz.” Indeed, one prolific commenter called knajjd went so far as to justify the murder of young girls because, in his view
female children can, at best, be considered a timebomb. even if you believe that children are totes innocent creatures, etc. etc. that argument makes no sense since they’ll inevitably develop into roasties.
Comments like these continue for page after page; all of those quoted so far come from the first three pages of what is currently a ten page thread.
It didn’t take long for some of the commenters to wonder if the shooter hadn’t frequented Incels.Me. Several mentioned a recent Incels.Me thread in which a lurker posted an elaborately detailed threat to shoot up his former high school and other schools in the area (including an elementary school north of his high school) on February 12 before escaping by blending in with the those fleeing from the scene.
More than a few of the details match up with what happened today. The alleged shooter today targeted his former high school. There is a middle school northwest of the high school, though it is more west than north. Some reports suggest the shooter escaped the school by blending in with fleeing students. The date of the threatened rampage was only two days different from the actual assault. The gun he reportedly used is similar to, though not the same model as, the one mentioned in the post.
You can see the screenshotted post here.
It’s certainly possible that the threat posted to Incels.Me was nothing more than a fantasy, and that the similarities between it and the events that unfolded today mere coincidence.
EDITED TO ADD: But even if Cruz wasn’t the anonymous commenter on Incels.Me, he may well have thought of himself as an iucel. The Daily Beast reports that someone calling himself Nikolas Cruz left a comment on a YouTube video a year ago declaring that ““Elliot rodger will not be forgotten.” (Meanwhile, a self-described paramilitary white supremacist group in Florida is telling The Beast that Cruz had trained with them.)
Was Cruz an incel, a white supremacist — or both, or neither? The clues to his motivation are certainly unsettling. As is the existence of a forum overloaded with so many bitter, furious young men who look upon mass murder as a kind of righteous retribution for the refusal of “roasties” to offer them sex.
NOTE TO REGULAR READERS: I was planning on returning to regular posts here shortly. I’m sorry it had to be with a story on this horrendous incident.
I don’t see what his looks have to do with anything. Let’s not go there.
It was in reference to the quote from Vman, in which he pleaded PLZ BE UGLY 3x, no less.
I was not suggesting that his looks had anything to do with it. My comment was meant to be sardonic
Sorry if it came off that way
Yeah, I know what you were referencing, but you’re lending it validity.
Lending it validity by mocking it? I really don’t see it that way. Aren’t you being a bit nitpicky.. Especially as I already apologized for it coming off the wrong way. Would you like me to flog myself?
Lending validity by mocking the notion?
I already apologized for it coming off the wrong way. Would you like me to flog myself?
@Hexum7, I think kupo was just elaborating their position. Please let’s not.
I’m good with that
Yay! Also echoing the cheer that David is back but sorry it has to be over such tragic news.
I do hope that the newest horrific incident moves people out of complacency and into action and legislation change. I keep hoping that seeing the radical right and consequences of continuing to compromise with them will encourage a majority of people to push things in a more progressive direction.
I’m sorry you’re dealing with depression. That sucks. I may have mentioned before that I had a partner who was in the same depression boat. It’s always so tricky to find the right medication for an individual. I wish you continued progress. I mean, getting back to square one from being on medication that was not working is still an improvement.
Agree with kupo
lots of unattractive men who cant date end up being decent people who dont go on shooting sprees
Really glad you’re back, David. Got back from a trip where I got nailed with the cold, so I wasn’t able to comment before now.
Good that you’re finally getting some help with proper medication, and bad you had to spend so long fighting off the Monster before getting it. I think non-depressive people really have no idea how much mental and emotional energy can be expended fighting the thing. I’m just glad it didn’t get the best of you, because like quite a few others I was starting to worry myself about your status. We kind of need you as our guide through these little cesspools of thought.
As for the rest… well, I can’t even. I’m out of evens. *sigh*
Gun control did nothing to stop McVeight
Or TK, or the Charlie Hebdo massacre, or the Nice attack, or the London Bridge attack, etc.
Those who trade liberty for safety deserve neither.
The thing is, we don’t know about the ones gun control did stop. Because they didn’t happen.
What we do know is that there are fewer mass-casualty events like these in countries with stronger gun control, and the numbers of casualties at each event tend to be much lower.
On the other hand, gun control in France and the United Kingdom does mean that those were unusual exceptions rather than happening literally every day.
@Joaquin
And those who trade other people’s safety for their desires are fools.
If a law doesn’t stop 100% of all crime, we might as well just not have any laws at all, right?
I Joaquin also doesn’t believe we should have any border security or immigration or visa requirements. Because it would sure be hypocritical to only be concerned about liberty when it comes to the right to stockpile AR-15s.
Per Wikipedia, the gun homicide per 100,000 people is 3.5 in the US. It’s .06 in the UK and .21 in France. So, despite the fact that there were a small number of mass shootings in those countries, gun control clearly keeps the rates of gun homicide down.
Brazil, Colombia, El Salvador, Guatemala, Jamaica, Mexico, Nicaragua, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, South Africa, Swaziland, Uruguay and Venezuela are the countries with higher gun homicide rates than the US. Not sure what the gun control policies are in any of those countries, but they’re all countries with high rates of poverty and many are countries with rampant drug crime. No countries that are comparably wealthy and powerful to the US are on the list. And it should be noted that Mexican drug lords get a lot of their guns from the US. Arguably more gun control in the US would lower gun crime in Mexico and perhaps other Latin American countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
The US is also by far the leader in mass shootings. From 1966 to 2012, we had 90 in the US. Philippines comes in a distant second with 18.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/10/03/americas/us-gun-statistics/index.html
Seriously, dude. Five minutes on Google disproves the notion that mass shootings happen everywhere, even in countries with strict gun control. I’m honestly not sure why people even bother with that talking point. Do they actually believe it? Or is it a repeat a lie often enough and people believe it kind of thing?
Oh, and here’s the context of that Benjamin Franklin quote.
https://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famous-liberty-safety-quote-lost-its-context-in-21st-century
If anything, the context of that quote could be used against the NRA and their love of using their wealth and power to bully legislators out of even properly discussing gun control reform let alone actually passing it. He was not saying that people should do whatever they want because liberty.
There’s a similar thing with “Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6”
Obviously that’s now a popular second amendment argument. But a couple of guys in the self defence community (Marc MacYoung and Massad Ayoob) tried to track down the origin of the phrase. It’s one of those sayings that gets attributed to lots of different people.
In the end it proved impossible. One thing that did crop up was it seems to date back quite a way. There’s variations of the saying from Western times. And one serious suggestion is that it originally arose as an argument against resolving disputes through gunslinging as opposed to through the courts.
Of all the articles to make this comment on, it’s the article in which a mass murderer used a gun to butcher children, and was able to do so because of the ease in which he was able to get those weapons. You don’t do your argument any favours, gun-fondler.
The rejection of violence as an alternative in all but the most extreme disputes is the hallmark of civilization.
WWTH, that was a thing of beauty.
If troll fights are still interesting I’ve got an interesting specimen at Dispatches to the Culture Wars. But NOTE: I’m putting pressure on someone who is trying to get people to stop talking about what accusers of sexual abuse are saying, and talking about associated abusive behavior band the person accused. The misogynistic murmerations give very offensive orders but it’s becoming fun to put pressure on them. I’ll gladly take criticisms and suggestions due to my social perception complications due to tourettes syndrome, social privilege, and unfound bad habits.
@WWTH
Another random order giver comes from the cultural milieu to WHTM, and goes thud. Utterly empty of all but feeling and generalization. WWTH that was fascinating and fun to to watch. A very fascinating and useful article. That could bounce many interesting trolls. Thank you.
Brony,
Wow. There’s a whole raft* of sea lions up in that comment section. I think you’re doing a good job with them. You’re being a lot more patient with them than I would ever be, but sometimes that style really gets under their skin. It’ll be interesting to see if you induce a meltdown.
* Yes, I had to look up what a group of sea lions is called.
@WWTH
Raft! Thank you! I’ll start using that instead of murmerations. It’s better with existing politics.
It would be easier for me, it’s not personal so I appreciate the perspective.
It feels like hunting when I enjoy it, racing heartbeat band all. For some reason I like to dig into the really determined ones. Pull out the ugliness so others see it’s bad to be like them. I have gotten a few “don’t feed the trolls” in other places so I’m considering something dispositional to make it look better somehow. But then I’m sure if this confrontation looks like that one.
I like doing troll takedowns too. I’m not proud of having a mean streak, but I do. Arguing with and mocking trolls lets me work off those impulses in a way that is constructive rather than destructive. When I was younger, I used to mock people who didn’t deserve it. As I matured, I realized it was wrong and I shouldn’t do it. Now I only mock those who really had it coming. And bad movies.
Well… thanks WWTH for aswering politely instead of dismissing my post or calling me a piece of human waste!
Honestly:
What measures would you have taken to prevent this?
And comparing USA to another country is dishonest because we are dealing with different countries, each represent a different challenge.
In Australia, for example, gun control law reduced the number of GUN deaths (duh) but in the long run, the number of homicides remained the same, looks like people found other way of killing each other.
Yes, mass shootings ceased, but that is very little consolation when the number of homicides did not decreased.
Unless you focus your obssession on mass shooting due to “Shock Value”
Disarming us wont make us safer.
I recognize i have a bias on this matter due to the fact i live in a 3rd world country, where the draconian gun control laws did little to make people safer, yes, we don’t have mass shooting but we have more firearm homicides per 100000 people than the USA.
Just a question:
Why are you so eager to dismiss gun advocates as trolls or on NRA payroll? Don’t you think these representatives truly believe in the 2A?
Good night!
Breaking news:
It seems an Argentine citizen was caught plannig a mass shooting in Miami.
Well, i can kiss my Green-Card-goals goodbye then.
Crapbaskets!