By David Futrelle
The Internet’s incels long ago adopted Isla Vista killer Elliot Rodger, the maladjusted twentysomething who murdered six in cold blood as a kind of revenge for his “involuntary celibacy,” as a patron saint of sorts.
Now they are doing the same with Nikolas Cruz, the Florida teen who allegedly murdered 17 students and teachers at a high school in Parkland, Florida today. On Incels.Me — the web forum that Reddit’s incel population migrated to after the admins at Reddit shut their forum there down — one enthusiastic commenter got the discussion started by posting a thread titled “A hERo rises on this day of incel exclusion (Florida Valentines Day School Shooting).” (All links in this post go to archived pages.)
The capitalized “ER” in “hERo” is of course a reference to Elliot Rodger.
In the thread, assorted incels cheered as the details of the shooting came out over the course of the day, declaring their “immense respect” for their new “HERO.” And some wondered — with more than a little justification — if the shooter wasn’t one of their fellow commenters on Incels.Me.
“Respect to him if he kills over 60 normies,” a commenter called Towncel declared. “Hopefully he isn’t just using 2 pistols and actually has an assault rifle,” he added in a followup comment.
Vman, a prolific commenter with over 2500 posts on the site was already set to declare Cruz his new idol.
holy shit its on valentines day! what a fucking hero! we have a new model! PLZ BE UGLY PLZ BE UGLY. WE NEED INCEL AWARNESS
Spicycurry was a little more reserved. “Watch the news blame incels rather than the femoids who mock us and oppress us,” he groused.
lonelyistheworld has a rather different fear. “The media will probably try to cover up the fact that he’s an Incel,” he complained. “The elites know that there’s a huge problem with lonely men in the west.”
Naturally, many of the commenters hoped that most of the victims would be “femoids.”
“Hope his roastie kill count is high,” Reddit_is_for_cucks opined
Roastie contribute nothing to the society anyway, sll they do is shopping and suck chads dick and get free stuff from cucks
Incel_Dikshit concurred, expressing his hope that the shooter had “snagged some degenerate roasties and depsrate beta orbiters with him.”
“Roastie” is a favorite incel slur for (cis) women, whose labia are thought (by incels) to resemble roast beef.
Many of the commenters took great pleasure in the fact that this murder spree took place on Valentine’s Day. “LIFEFUEL,” declared one. “The best Valentines Day in history buddy boyos.”
When several commenters expressed their uneasiness at this open celebration of mass murder, they were denounced as “Jooz.” Indeed, one prolific commenter called knajjd went so far as to justify the murder of young girls because, in his view
female children can, at best, be considered a timebomb. even if you believe that children are totes innocent creatures, etc. etc. that argument makes no sense since they’ll inevitably develop into roasties.
Comments like these continue for page after page; all of those quoted so far come from the first three pages of what is currently a ten page thread.
It didn’t take long for some of the commenters to wonder if the shooter hadn’t frequented Incels.Me. Several mentioned a recent Incels.Me thread in which a lurker posted an elaborately detailed threat to shoot up his former high school and other schools in the area (including an elementary school north of his high school) on February 12 before escaping by blending in with the those fleeing from the scene.
More than a few of the details match up with what happened today. The alleged shooter today targeted his former high school. There is a middle school northwest of the high school, though it is more west than north. Some reports suggest the shooter escaped the school by blending in with fleeing students. The date of the threatened rampage was only two days different from the actual assault. The gun he reportedly used is similar to, though not the same model as, the one mentioned in the post.
You can see the screenshotted post here.
It’s certainly possible that the threat posted to Incels.Me was nothing more than a fantasy, and that the similarities between it and the events that unfolded today mere coincidence.
EDITED TO ADD: But even if Cruz wasn’t the anonymous commenter on Incels.Me, he may well have thought of himself as an iucel. The Daily Beast reports that someone calling himself Nikolas Cruz left a comment on a YouTube video a year ago declaring that ““Elliot rodger will not be forgotten.” (Meanwhile, a self-described paramilitary white supremacist group in Florida is telling The Beast that Cruz had trained with them.)
Was Cruz an incel, a white supremacist — or both, or neither? The clues to his motivation are certainly unsettling. As is the existence of a forum overloaded with so many bitter, furious young men who look upon mass murder as a kind of righteous retribution for the refusal of “roasties” to offer them sex.
NOTE TO REGULAR READERS: I was planning on returning to regular posts here shortly. I’m sorry it had to be with a story on this horrendous incident.
Just because they don’t do it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist and that we can’t hold them responsible for not doing it.
Funny thing… somebody on the Wonkette article shared this graphic:
A reply to that graphic asked “Are Canadians getting a contact high or something?” To answer that, I had to share this article from the Toronto Star that I actually have bookmarked on my computer because it makes it clear that in fact the free availability of guns doesn’t just result in a lot more dead Americans, but a lot more dead Canadians too.
The graphic tells the story:
The article’s five years old at this point, and crime rates have gone down in Toronto, but with guns only proliferating down south and economic inequality only getting worse… I doubt it’s gotten better.
And … the arsehole is a white supremicist, too. Trained with them.
(Thanks for that to EyesOnTheRight from twitter)
@mrex
Yes. There is.
It’s not easy, but it is always there. Of course, it takes spine and personal integrity, both of which seem to be surgically removed upon getting elected. 🙁
Edit: my spelling sucks today.
@kupo
“Just because they don’t do it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist and that we can’t hold them responsible for not doing it.”
Well of course “the right thing” always exists, but as long as the government is contaminated by money, there’s very little us peons can do to hold politicians responsible for ignoring it. We can only vote for the assholes that are handed to us.
ETA: I’m criticizing the government here guys, not justifying it.
@Saint Podkayne
I chalk that up to our political media being on the whole less sensational. It’s rare that a piece of legislation actually becomes prominent enough in the news cycle that it can be identified by number (last I remember was C-16 and that was only because Jordan Peterson was whining about it). Meanwhile, social media broadcasts American political malfeasance across the globe.
I’m not immune from it either. I can name every justice on the US Supreme Court, but I can only name a few of Canada’s. (Richard Wagner recently took over as Chief Justice from Beverly MacLachlin and I remember Abella, Moldaver and Karakatsanis, but the rest look like more recent appointments). I suppose it’s because the Canadian Supremes handle fewer controversial cases, or when they do, they’re not as compromised by right-wing partisan crap the way the Rehnquist and Roberts courts have been.
(As an aside, sorry about talking about so much Canada stuff in a thread about a tragedy in the US. I just worry about my country sometimes….)
From that Daily Beast article
Whoa.
@Moggie:
Regarding the killer being known as ‘some asshole’… there’s still a significant group of people who refuse to mention the name of the person who killed John Lennon. Specifically because in that case, the primary motive for the murder appears to have been ‘the easiest way to become famous is to kill somebody famous’: he didn’t actually care who he killed, just as long as it was someone famous enough to get his name in the papers. So, yeah, there’s a history of people explicitly refusing to grant killers like that the notoriety they look for.
Now, if only we could convince the media to do the same.
Back in 1978, Dean Ing wrote a story called “Very Proper Charlies” where a stand-up comic working together with several major media outlets managed to get all terrorists referred to as ‘Charlies’ and mocked mercilessly when incidents were reported on the news. The logo used on TV news for the stories involved a scruffy looking guy with a short-fused stick of dynamite in his mouth giving a middle finger to the audience. The idea was to rob the terrorists of the ability to actually terrorize the wider populace.
Unfortunately, the 24-hour news cycle and the rise of Internet news have both contributed to a lot more focus on the scoop and sensationalism, not that there was a lack of that before.
I am relieved they caught him alive – so they will interview him, and like with Dylan Roof, they will find mental illness not to blame. easily to say shooter is ‘mentally ill’ if they died – like with Elliot Rodger. I hope for justice.
I seen he already accused with 17 counts of premeditated murder – looks like only people who defend fire-arms talk about mental illness, but authority follow correct procedure.
https://twitter.com/chaddiedabaddie/status/964182151842484224
this is tweet of someone who is there (don’t worry she just talked about her interview with CNN, it is not about details of what happened).
on her Twitter feed she share some more stuff, but also it is general, I didn’t find any details of incident so it is good place to go and read, and no fear of very upsetting things, if people are not ready or don’t wish to read these live tweets of other students.
@David: I am happy so see you back on. Big hugs to you and your kitties
Glad you’re feeling better now David, I was starting to wonder if you were coming back at all.
On a different note: what kind of fucking insult is “Roastie”? Seriously? Roast beef??? And you’d know because you ever seen a vagina?
Problem is a lot of the MSM are straight up ignoring the fact that this guy was an incel, or at the very least incel-adjacent (and a White supremacist to boot, funny how that happens huh?). Even now that asshole Alex Jones and 4chan are trying to spin this and mischaracterize him as an Antifa.
They need to call out these people for what they are. This violence needs to be properly associated to Right wing movements, and these movements need to be fucking addressed.
@Saint Podkayne
Canada’s equivalent of the NRA is the National Firearms Association. But unlike the NRA it has a pretty minimal national profile. I suspect even a lot of Canadian gun owners don’t know they exist. They’re probably lucky if they get national press more than once or twice a year. I’m sure someone dragged out a NFA spokesman to discuss the Colten Boushie case.
CNN is now talking about the white supremacist group and the partner violence. They did not say anything about his MAGA hat or the incel stuff though.
Given that a Trump supporter actually made death threats to CNN, you’d think they’d do a better job of connecting the dots between the Trump administration and how emboldened white supremacists have been since the election. I guess they must be so afraid of losing access to White House sources that they’ll even disregard threats to their own employees.
Valentin,
Sarah changed her username.
It is now @sarahmara16
Here is this beautiful girl taking down Mark Fucking Dice.
https://twitter.com/sarahmara16/status/963922899982782465
David, welcome back.
this is complicated. Outside the internet, who knows what is “incel”? who knows what is 4-chan and why it is so bad? who knows what is reddit? Most people don’t know this – they will not understand why this is important, or what is a solution.
I dont think my parents will understand this, I don’t think even my brothers will understand and they are not so old.
I believe maybe they can understand what is ‘toxic masculinity’ – but then plenty people will reject this one as women ‘hate men because they are men’ – so no solouton there. and it is already very clear what thoughts about gun control.
white supremacy – people still believe this also not important, because already ‘we beaten the Nazi’.
I can think maybe one solution which will help many people who will not understand about incels, or care about other things, – talk about children, talk about these drills. this is something very easy for most people to understand. show that this not just about who died or injured – this now effect fully childhood of most American children, they grow in fear of this. maybe this will help to create perspective.
EDIT
peevee, my link not work? I only copy it 30 minutes before! maybe because my internet slow.
Can we not?
Thanks, everyone, for the kind words. I hope to post fairly regularly now, though it might take a little while before I ramp up to daily posts again. (Then again it might not.) I’ll also put up a little note on my health issues. The short version: I’m still having the sleep and migraine issues I’ve talked about but they’ve eased a little and I’m hopeful about my treatment.
But the big thing that has been keeping me from posting has been depression. Unfortunately, when I went in about 5 months ago to see if I could get my meds adjusted the inexperienced nurse practitioner I was assigned took me off my main depression meds and put me on first one and then another antidepressant that didn’t work. And she ramped up the dosage so very slowly that it took several months to see clearly that the meds weren’t working at all. Which meant that I was basically untreated for my depression, which came roaring back in full force. Indeed, one of the meds seemed to be making things much worse.
I’ve switched to another doctor who put me back on my original med and supplemented it with another one. At the moment I’m back to square one, depression-wise, but I’m hopeful that once the additional med kicks in I will be doing better than that.
I didn’t want to talk about the depression publicly because, well, I was too depressed.
I could go on forever about all the delays and missteps and sheer incompetence I’ve had to deal with in trying to get my issues resolved (and not just with the psychiatric NP I saw; the first neurologist I saw about my headaches was a complete flake, for example) over the last 6 months but at long last things do seem to be going in the right direction.
Thanks again for your patience and support.
EDIT: Oh, and I saw that Daily Beast thing about Cruz praising Elliot Rodger, which seems hugely important; I added a paragraph to the post about that.
@wwth
Another thing Chapo mentioned was what’s called the “Black Pill”, which is basically what these incel dipshits (and other “red pill” takers) call themselves when they become so nihilistic that they just start openly worshipping school shooters and ISIS recruits. It would hardly surprise me if there was significant overlap between incel and “black pill.”
@Diego Duarte
Volumes could be written about the implications of that phrase alone, particularly when these buttholes make such a big deal out of not being able to touch one. They hate the very thing they claim to desire (which just tells you what they’re really about: domination and hatred of women.)
Mostly a lurker, but I’m glad to see you back, David, despite the circumstances.
“having narcissistic traits and an overblown sense of entitlement, wanting to be famous and known for something (though obviously not necessarily in TK’s case), and feeling humiliated and out of options. ”
Pretty sure that even out of this group, the percentage of serial killers, mass murderers, and terrorists is going to be less than 1%. I’m all for actually taking care of the mentally ill, but to me that’s about helping the vast majority of them who are NOT evil, not guessing who is going to be history’s next monster.
Mass shootings are a gun control issue. Terrorism is a radicalization issue. Narcissism and persecution complexes are way too widespread to be seen as useful indicators.
IMO, of course.
David, you had hard time with this, but we are just glad that you spet your time alone, to get better. I think everyone here is happy to wait for you, until you came back. and like plenty people already said, we don’t need any explanaion if you don’t want to give.
Trained by white supremacist to kill Americans!
AND …THIS is NOT a terrorist?
Oh ….build a wall?????????
Ok, sorry about that.
@Gerald
By the official definition of terrorist that the various security services use – no, the arsehole isn’t a terrorist. There seems to be zero attempt by him or any of his associates to use the shootings as a lever to affect politics.
By the definition used by normal people who AREN’T in power – yes he is.
The official definition could do with expanding.
I thought Black Pill was a reference to suicide after the Incel subreddit was shut down. Wasn’t there a post talking about that and “swallowing the Black Pill” which the incels made right after the crackdown on their group?
@David
Yikes! Depression is a serious issue. Hopefully the new pills have some effect. Since everybody’s chemical composition is different it can be very hard for psychiatrists and the like to get it right on the first try. I know it’s taken some of my family members several tries with different meds before they did, but for all it’s worth, actually waiting to make sure the meds are taking the desired effect is the most common approach.
Hopefully you’ll get better overtime.