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Incels hail “our savior St. Nikolas Cruz” for Valentine’s Day school shooting [UPDATED]

Photos from the alleged shooter’s now-deleted Instagram page

By David Futrelle

The Internet’s incels long ago adopted Isla Vista killer Elliot Rodger, the maladjusted twentysomething who murdered six in cold blood as a kind of revenge for his “involuntary celibacy,” as a patron saint of sorts.

Now they are doing the same with Nikolas Cruz, the Florida teen who allegedly murdered 17 students and teachers at a high school in Parkland, Florida today. On Incels.Me — the web forum that Reddit’s incel population migrated to after the admins at Reddit shut their forum there down — one enthusiastic commenter got the discussion started by posting a thread titled “A hERo rises on this day of incel exclusion (Florida Valentines Day School Shooting).”  (All links in this post go to archived pages.)

The capitalized “ER” in “hERo” is of course a reference to Elliot Rodger.

In the thread, assorted incels cheered as the details of the shooting came out over the course of the day, declaring their “immense respect” for their new “HERO.” And some wondered — with more than a little justification — if the shooter wasn’t one of their fellow commenters on Incels.Me.

“Respect to him if he kills over 60 normies,” a commenter called Towncel declared. “Hopefully he isn’t just using 2 pistols and actually has an assault rifle,” he added in a followup comment.

Vman, a prolific commenter with over 2500 posts on the site was already set to declare Cruz his new idol.

holy shit its on valentines day! what a fucking hero! we have a new model! PLZ BE UGLY PLZ BE UGLY. WE NEED INCEL AWARNESS

Spicycurry was a little more reserved. “Watch the news blame incels rather than the femoids who mock us and oppress us,” he groused.

lonelyistheworld  has a rather different fear. “The media will probably try to cover up the fact that he’s an Incel,” he complained. “The elites know that there’s a huge problem with lonely men in the west.”

Naturally, many of the commenters hoped that most of the victims would be “femoids.”

“Hope his roastie kill count is high,” Reddit_is_for_cucks  opined

Roastie contribute nothing to the society anyway, sll they do is shopping and suck chads dick and get free stuff from cucks

Incel_Dikshit concurred, expressing his hope that the shooter had “snagged some degenerate roasties and depsrate beta orbiters with him.”

“Roastie” is a favorite incel slur for (cis) women, whose labia are thought (by incels) to resemble roast beef.

Many of the commenters took great pleasure in the fact that this murder spree took place on Valentine’s Day. “LIFEFUEL,” declared one. “The best Valentines Day in history buddy boyos.”

When several commenters expressed their uneasiness at this open celebration of mass murder, they were denounced as “Jooz.” Indeed, one prolific commenter called knajjd went so far as to justify the murder of young girls because, in his view

female children can, at best, be considered a timebomb. even if you believe that children are totes innocent creatures, etc. etc. that argument makes no sense since they’ll inevitably develop into roasties.

Comments like these continue for page after page; all of those quoted so far come from the first three pages of what is currently a ten page thread.

It didn’t take long for some of the commenters to wonder if the shooter hadn’t frequented Incels.Me. Several mentioned a recent Incels.Me thread in which a lurker posted an elaborately detailed threat to shoot up his former high school and other schools in the area (including an elementary school north of his high school) on February 12 before escaping by blending in with the those fleeing from the scene.

More than a few of the details match up with what happened today. The alleged shooter today targeted his former high school. There is a middle school northwest of the high school, though it is more west than north. Some reports suggest the shooter escaped the school by blending in with fleeing students. The date of the threatened rampage was only two days different from the actual assault. The gun he reportedly used is similar to, though not the same model as, the one mentioned in the post.

You can see the screenshotted post here.

It’s certainly possible that the threat posted to Incels.Me was nothing more than a fantasy, and that the similarities between it and the events that unfolded today mere coincidence.

EDITED TO ADD: But even if Cruz wasn’t the anonymous commenter on Incels.Me, he may well have thought of himself as an iucel. The Daily Beast reports that someone calling himself Nikolas Cruz left a comment on a YouTube video a year ago declaring that ““Elliot rodger will not be forgotten.” (Meanwhile, a self-described paramilitary white supremacist group in Florida is telling The Beast that Cruz had trained with them.)

Was Cruz an incel, a white supremacist — or both, or neither? The clues to his motivation are certainly unsettling. As is the existence of a forum overloaded with so many bitter, furious young men who look upon mass murder as a kind of righteous retribution for the refusal of “roasties” to offer them sex.

NOTE TO REGULAR READERS: I was planning on returning to regular posts here shortly. I’m sorry it had to be with a story on this horrendous incident.

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kupo
kupo
2 years ago

There is no “do the right thing” against money.

Just because they don’t do it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist and that we can’t hold them responsible for not doing it.

Katamount (formerly Gussie Jives)
Katamount (formerly Gussie Jives)
2 years ago

Funny thing… somebody on the Wonkette article shared this graphic:
comment image

A reply to that graphic asked “Are Canadians getting a contact high or something?” To answer that, I had to share this article from the Toronto Star that I actually have bookmarked on my computer because it makes it clear that in fact the free availability of guns doesn’t just result in a lot more dead Americans, but a lot more dead Canadians too.

The graphic tells the story:
comment image

The article’s five years old at this point, and crime rates have gone down in Toronto, but with guns only proliferating down south and economic inequality only getting worse… I doubt it’s gotten better.

Shadowplay
2 years ago

And … the arsehole is a white supremicist, too. Trained with them.

(Thanks for that to EyesOnTheRight from twitter)

Shadowplay
2 years ago

@mrex

There is no “do the right thing” against money

Yes. There is.

It’s not easy, but it is always there. Of course, it takes spine and personal integrity, both of which seem to be surgically removed upon getting elected. 🙁

Edit: my spelling sucks today.

mrex
mrex
2 years ago

@kupo

“Just because they don’t do it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist and that we can’t hold them responsible for not doing it.”

Well of course “the right thing” always exists, but as long as the government is contaminated by money, there’s very little us peons can do to hold politicians responsible for ignoring it. We can only vote for the assholes that are handed to us.

ETA: I’m criticizing the government here guys, not justifying it.

Katamount (formerly Gussie Jives)
Katamount (formerly Gussie Jives)
2 years ago

@Saint Podkayne

This leads to some really yahoo conversations where they seem rock-solid that Canadian politics have always been separated between values of ‘Liberal’ and ‘Conservative’ which are historically unchanging… and are patterned exactly on the US’ Democrats and Republicans.

I chalk that up to our political media being on the whole less sensational. It’s rare that a piece of legislation actually becomes prominent enough in the news cycle that it can be identified by number (last I remember was C-16 and that was only because Jordan Peterson was whining about it). Meanwhile, social media broadcasts American political malfeasance across the globe.

I’m not immune from it either. I can name every justice on the US Supreme Court, but I can only name a few of Canada’s. (Richard Wagner recently took over as Chief Justice from Beverly MacLachlin and I remember Abella, Moldaver and Karakatsanis, but the rest look like more recent appointments). I suppose it’s because the Canadian Supremes handle fewer controversial cases, or when they do, they’re not as compromised by right-wing partisan crap the way the Rehnquist and Roberts courts have been.

(As an aside, sorry about talking about so much Canada stuff in a thread about a tragedy in the US. I just worry about my country sometimes….)

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

From that Daily Beast article

Cruz also celebrated Elliot Rodger, the gunman who killed seven people at the University of California, Santa Barbara in 2014, who is considered a hero of the fringe men’s rights movement.

Whoa.

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
2 years ago

@Moggie:
Regarding the killer being known as ‘some asshole’… there’s still a significant group of people who refuse to mention the name of the person who killed John Lennon. Specifically because in that case, the primary motive for the murder appears to have been ‘the easiest way to become famous is to kill somebody famous’: he didn’t actually care who he killed, just as long as it was someone famous enough to get his name in the papers. So, yeah, there’s a history of people explicitly refusing to grant killers like that the notoriety they look for.

Now, if only we could convince the media to do the same.

Back in 1978, Dean Ing wrote a story called “Very Proper Charlies” where a stand-up comic working together with several major media outlets managed to get all terrorists referred to as ‘Charlies’ and mocked mercilessly when incidents were reported on the news. The logo used on TV news for the stories involved a scruffy looking guy with a short-fused stick of dynamite in his mouth giving a middle finger to the audience. The idea was to rob the terrorists of the ability to actually terrorize the wider populace.

Unfortunately, the 24-hour news cycle and the rise of Internet news have both contributed to a lot more focus on the scoop and sensationalism, not that there was a lack of that before.

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
2 years ago

I am relieved they caught him alive – so they will interview him, and like with Dylan Roof, they will find mental illness not to blame. easily to say shooter is ‘mentally ill’ if they died – like with Elliot Rodger. I hope for justice.

I seen he already accused with 17 counts of premeditated murder – looks like only people who defend fire-arms talk about mental illness, but authority follow correct procedure.

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
2 years ago

https://twitter.com/chaddiedabaddie/status/964182151842484224

this is tweet of someone who is there (don’t worry she just talked about her interview with CNN, it is not about details of what happened).

on her Twitter feed she share some more stuff, but also it is general, I didn’t find any details of incident so it is good place to go and read, and no fear of very upsetting things, if people are not ready or don’t wish to read these live tweets of other students.

Anne
Anne
2 years ago

@David: I am happy so see you back on. Big hugs to you and your kitties

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
2 years ago

Glad you’re feeling better now David, I was starting to wonder if you were coming back at all.

On a different note: what kind of fucking insult is “Roastie”? Seriously? Roast beef??? And you’d know because you ever seen a vagina?

Problem is a lot of the MSM are straight up ignoring the fact that this guy was an incel, or at the very least incel-adjacent (and a White supremacist to boot, funny how that happens huh?). Even now that asshole Alex Jones and 4chan are trying to spin this and mischaracterize him as an Antifa.

They need to call out these people for what they are. This violence needs to be properly associated to Right wing movements, and these movements need to be fucking addressed.

tim gueguen
2 years ago

@Saint Podkayne

The upside I see is that they are generally not at all active in getting their Americanized ideologies into play locally and seem genuinely confused about what country they’re in. Like, most of them want more access to guns, -but they discuss it in terms of the NRA-.

Canada’s equivalent of the NRA is the National Firearms Association. But unlike the NRA it has a pretty minimal national profile. I suspect even a lot of Canadian gun owners don’t know they exist. They’re probably lucky if they get national press more than once or twice a year. I’m sure someone dragged out a NFA spokesman to discuss the Colten Boushie case.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

CNN is now talking about the white supremacist group and the partner violence. They did not say anything about his MAGA hat or the incel stuff though.

Given that a Trump supporter actually made death threats to CNN, you’d think they’d do a better job of connecting the dots between the Trump administration and how emboldened white supremacists have been since the election. I guess they must be so afraid of losing access to White House sources that they’ll even disregard threats to their own employees.

PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
2 years ago

Valentin,

Sarah changed her username.

It is now @sarahmara16

Here is this beautiful girl taking down Mark Fucking Dice.

https://twitter.com/sarahmara16/status/963922899982782465

David, welcome back.

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
2 years ago

They need to call out these people for what they are.

this is complicated. Outside the internet, who knows what is “incel”? who knows what is 4-chan and why it is so bad? who knows what is reddit? Most people don’t know this – they will not understand why this is important, or what is a solution.

I dont think my parents will understand this, I don’t think even my brothers will understand and they are not so old.

I believe maybe they can understand what is ‘toxic masculinity’ – but then plenty people will reject this one as women ‘hate men because they are men’ – so no solouton there. and it is already very clear what thoughts about gun control.

white supremacy – people still believe this also not important, because already ‘we beaten the Nazi’.

I can think maybe one solution which will help many people who will not understand about incels, or care about other things, – talk about children, talk about these drills. this is something very easy for most people to understand. show that this not just about who died or injured – this now effect fully childhood of most American children, they grow in fear of this. maybe this will help to create perspective.

EDIT

peevee, my link not work? I only copy it 30 minutes before! maybe because my internet slow.

kupo
kupo
2 years ago

And you’d know because you ever seen a vagina?

Can we not?

Katamount (formerly Gussie Jives)
Katamount (formerly Gussie Jives)
2 years ago

@wwth

Cruz also celebrated Elliot Rodger, the gunman who killed seven people at the University of California, Santa Barbara in 2014, who is considered a hero of the fringe men’s rights movement.

Another thing Chapo mentioned was what’s called the “Black Pill”, which is basically what these incel dipshits (and other “red pill” takers) call themselves when they become so nihilistic that they just start openly worshipping school shooters and ISIS recruits. It would hardly surprise me if there was significant overlap between incel and “black pill.”

@Diego Duarte

On a different note: what kind of fucking insult is “Roastie”?

Volumes could be written about the implications of that phrase alone, particularly when these buttholes make such a big deal out of not being able to touch one. They hate the very thing they claim to desire (which just tells you what they’re really about: domination and hatred of women.)

AndFurthermoreTheNRAMustBeDestroyed
AndFurthermoreTheNRAMustBeDestroyed
2 years ago

Mostly a lurker, but I’m glad to see you back, David, despite the circumstances.

“having narcissistic traits and an overblown sense of entitlement, wanting to be famous and known for something (though obviously not necessarily in TK’s case), and feeling humiliated and out of options. ”

Pretty sure that even out of this group, the percentage of serial killers, mass murderers, and terrorists is going to be less than 1%. I’m all for actually taking care of the mentally ill, but to me that’s about helping the vast majority of them who are NOT evil, not guessing who is going to be history’s next monster.

Mass shootings are a gun control issue. Terrorism is a radicalization issue. Narcissism and persecution complexes are way too widespread to be seen as useful indicators.

IMO, of course.

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
2 years ago

David, you had hard time with this, but we are just glad that you spet your time alone, to get better. I think everyone here is happy to wait for you, until you came back. and like plenty people already said, we don’t need any explanaion if you don’t want to give.

Gerald
Gerald
2 years ago

Trained by white supremacist to kill Americans!
AND …THIS is NOT a terrorist?
Oh ….build a wall?????????

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
2 years ago

Can we not?

Ok, sorry about that.

Shadowplay
2 years ago

@Gerald

Trained by white supremacist to kill Americans!
AND …THIS is NOT a terrorist?

By the official definition of terrorist that the various security services use – no, the arsehole isn’t a terrorist. There seems to be zero attempt by him or any of his associates to use the shootings as a lever to affect politics.

By the definition used by normal people who AREN’T in power – yes he is.

The official definition could do with expanding.

Diego Duarte
Diego Duarte
2 years ago

Another thing Chapo mentioned was what’s called the “Black Pill”, which is basically what these incel dipshits (and other “red pill” takers) call themselves when they become so nihilistic that they just start openly worshipping school shooters and ISIS recruits. It would hardly surprise me if there was significant overlap between incel and “black pill.”

I thought Black Pill was a reference to suicide after the Incel subreddit was shut down. Wasn’t there a post talking about that and “swallowing the Black Pill” which the incels made right after the crackdown on their group?

@David

Yikes! Depression is a serious issue. Hopefully the new pills have some effect. Since everybody’s chemical composition is different it can be very hard for psychiatrists and the like to get it right on the first try. I know it’s taken some of my family members several tries with different meds before they did, but for all it’s worth, actually waiting to make sure the meds are taking the desired effect is the most common approach.

Hopefully you’ll get better overtime.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

There seems to be zero attempt by him or any of his associates to use the shootings as a lever to affect politics.

Cruz himself, maybe not? But the group bragging about training him? That’s exactly why they did it. If ISIS had trained someone who went on to kill Americans kids? You bet your ass that would be defined as terrorism. There’d be fracking military strikes overseas to avenge it.

I’m not seeing how this doesn’t fit the definition of terrorism other than of course the skin tone and religious background of the people involved.

abars01
abars01
2 years ago

David, thank God. I was starting to think you might be terminally ill, if not dead.

But yeah, I’ve lost count of the times I’ve seen posts on conservative/MRA/MGTOW/PUA/Nice Guy/incel/Neo-Nazi/white nationalist/alt-right/neoreactionary websites or social media pages where someone has either expressed an intention to kill women/blacks/Latinos/Jews/Muslims/LGBT people/feminists/liberals/college students, or encouraged others to do so, and the commenters have lavished praise on them for it. Such spaces are pure time bombs. If the FBI isn’t already monitoring them, they damn well need to start doing so.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
2 years ago

Hi David

It’s great to see you back. So sorry to hear about all your woes though. Please take care of yourself and don’t feel you need to rush into things until you’re fully recovered. I’m sure we can continue to sustain things here for a while until you’re fully on the mend.

Shadowplay
2 years ago

@wwth

But the group bragging about training him? That’s exactly why they did it.

And there is a possibility that they’ll be treated as a terror group for that reason. I wish I could say a high likelihood, but no, I can’t.

Even ignoring the fool in the White House, the American security services are very reluctant to define domestic terror groups, and have been ever since the massive political backlash against the FBI over the Black Panthers (which was really over Hoover’s overreach, but eh – same result. No one wants to pin the tail on the domestic terrorist donkey).

Sorry for the diversion. These incel sods have me in a very bad mental place and I can’t handle them right now, so I’ve got to look at the edges.

mrex
mrex
2 years ago

RE:Washinton School Shooting Planning

According to the Everett Police Department, the 18-year-old’s grandmother called 911 Tuesday morning after finding the journal and believed the threats to shoot students at ACES High School were credible.

Looks like Granny knew something was going on with her grandson and decided to do some SNOOPING in her grandson’s journal. Good for her, that she didn’t refuse to see all the subtle signs like EVERYONE ELSE did.

‘It really speaks to the importance of if you see something or hear something to notify the authorities. That’s what she did. It could well have saved many, many lives including her grandson’s life,’ said Muntz.

ACES student Olivia Fox said she was stunned at the accusations leveled against her close friend.

‘There was lot of shock around the school when they released a picture of who it was,’ she said. ‘Me and a couple of his other good friends are shaken up, because we know how good of a kid he is.’

ImmmmHmmmm.

mrex
mrex
2 years ago

@Shadowplay

the American security services are very reluctant to define domestic terror groups

They’re only reluctant to define you as a terrorist if you’re a white Xian.

The Boston Marathon Bombers were white, American Muslims. Guess what THEY get called?

kupo
kupo
2 years ago

The story of the teacher who died protecting his students is heartbreaking.

gijoel
gijoel
2 years ago

Welcome back Dave. I wish we could have given you a nicer world to be in.

Bryce
Bryce
2 years ago

There’s a reason America has so many shootings. Yes, the lax gun laws make things easier, but I don’t think that’s the main thing.
It’s a stew of toxic masculinity and white supremacy. These young men feel that they aren’t getting the respect, and rewards from life that areally their automatic due for being white and male. They are terrified when they see equality coming, they see minorities & women starting to move to am equal playing field and they know, deep down that being a mediocre cis-het white male isn’t an automatic ticket to success anymore. So they rage, and that rage boils over into violence.

In terms of ethnicity this isn’t true. White people are actually underrepresented in the mass shooter statistics (54%) when compared to percentage of the population (73%). Source: https://www.statista.com/statistics/476456/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-race/

*These kinds* of mass shootings, perhaps, but there’s no info on that.

However the overwhelming majority of mass shooters are male… https://www.statista.com/statistics/476445/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-shooter-s-gender/

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
2 years ago

@Bryce
Please no, we really don’t need a “well actually” on white shooters.

Scildfreja Unnýðnes
Scildfreja Unnýðnes
2 years ago

@David, I really understand that struggle with depression, and why you didn’t want to talk about it here. Don’t feel bad about that! The trial of getting a medication that works is tough, and that’s when you’ve got capable diagnosis and care! I’m really glad you’re pulling through, and don’t you feel guilty about leaving things off for awhile. If you need more of a break you go ahead and take one!

vaiyt
vaiyt
2 years ago

apparently shooting random people to instill terror in the population out of a vague sense of retribution is only bad if you shout allahu akbar while doing it

Z&T
Z&T
2 years ago

David, YAY! Here’s hoping you continue to be on the mend.

Yes, bureaucracy and run around. For me lately, the legal and financial fields. Could you imagine if medical things or even 911 had one of these complex phone systems?

If you are having a stroke, press 1
If you have contracted ebola, press 2
If you are constipated, press 3
To speak to a representative please stay on the line….

All representatives are presently assisting other customers
The projected wait time is 10 years …..
(Cue “Smooth Jazz” or Classical music)

ARGH! And then, when you do talk to someone, OK yes, I think I’m having a stroke and am constipated, what should I do?

Phone rep: Those cancel each other out. Bye.

o0

Yes it IS this bad, in the financial arena it sure is. In fact, I do believe I was asked these questions. Do you have ebola? Um, I wanted to talk to a broker about a stock transfer ….

So, you’re saying that you DO have ebola?

I am pretty sure that in all the run around I’ve had, I DID have this exact conversation with someone.

Gah. You really do need to advocate for yourself, do your own research, and keep on top of it all.

Trying to stay positive here too. I think the flu I had is winding down, I feel better, I even took a little walk a short time ago, get some fresh air and a bit of exercise. More ??? Why is the mail just getting here at 6 pm?

Here’s a cute video I just stumbled upon, for Olympic fans….

Mea
Mea
2 years ago

Good to have you back David, I’m just sad it’s under such dire news.

Mels
Mels
2 years ago

Welcome back, David. Please take good care of yourself. As a spoonie, I can empathize with the incompetent doctors/nurses issue. I’m sorry you’ve had to deal with that.

As others have said: happy to see a post, if not for the horrific subject matter. This blog has a certain tone that (despite the occasional commentariat blow-up) helps ground me for some reason. A welcome feeling, particularly in today’s atmosphere of cultural gaslighting.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
2 years ago

“Spoonie”?

KindaSortaHarmless
KindaSortaHarmless
2 years ago

Welcome back, David! I hope things get better now that you’re seeing someone who knows what they’re doing. I’m just sad that this is what brought you back.

There’s not a whole lot I can add, but I’m not really surprised that Parkland’s Some Asshole admired Isla Vista’s Some Asshole. I’m also not surprised that the Nazis are trying to say that Some Asshole’s not one of them while lionizing him at the same time. The cognitive dissonance must be something.

dust bunny
dust bunny
2 years ago

@ischemgeek

I don’t want to be disrespectful to the dead so all I will say is this: Structural racism in Canada is a very important topic. It definitely needs work. Here and now – on a thread about a mass shooting and the subculture that encouraged it the day after it happened – is not an appropriate place for that discussion. If you want to discuss, I will happily do so elsewhere.

Not to be an asshole about it, but you kind of seem like you’re taking a page out of the conservative playbook in order to deflect because you made a mistake and felt embarrassed when it was pointed out to you. Maybe that’s not what you’re doing, but it is what you look like, and you might want to consider that.

There’s nothing disrespectful or inappropriate about not staying 100% on topic in a teeny tiny internet community thread about a tragedy, even if the tragedy was very recent.

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
2 years ago

David, it’s great to see you again – and horrible that this is the proximate why.

I thought it was a telling point made upthread about the huge difference in numbers of killings compared with Canada and Switzerland in terms of gun ownership and accessibility – in relation to the old chestnut “argument” that it’s not the guns, it’s the people; obviously it is, massively and by orders of magnitude, the easy access to guns – with cultural aspects playing a part in making it worse.

@Surplus to Requirements, I’m guessing Mels was referring to “spoon theory”?

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
2 years ago

@David, thank you for letting us know what’s been happening. That’s a horrible space you’ve been in. I was discussing metaphors for depression with a friend via Twitter recently: he likened his to an ongoing war, while I see mine as a dark stain on everything, even good things.
I’m really thankful that you seem to be winning your war and/or vanquishing that dark stain 💜

Katamount (formerly Gussie Jives)
Katamount (formerly Gussie Jives)
2 years ago

The Editrix of Wonkette says it best: https://wonkette.com/629807/of-course-florida-school-shooter-was-a-girl-hating-white-supremacist-of-course-i-am-tired-of-writing-this-article

In the 1970s, if you thought Ted Bundy was a hero for murdering all those women, you kept that to yourself. You couldn’t just casually say, “Wow, that guy had a POINT!” to someone or else people would think you were nuts. You couldn’t go on a YouTube video and post about how great he was. Today, people who feel that way can find each other, they can commiserate without being judged. They can talk online about how much they would really like to murder a bunch of women. They get to cherish their resentments, nurture them and watch them grow.

Like a cult leader going from prophet to messiah to Literal Jesus, the insular nature of these groups creates a need for constant escalation. Someone may stop by one of these forums because they are having a bad day, because they feel slighted in some way, or because their crush wouldn’t go out with them and they feel bad, and eventually get so sucked into these communities that instead of dealing with these common life events in a healthy way, they start one-upping each other to the point where they fantasize about murdering people. They start out being “I’m not a racist but…” types and end up dreaming about a white ethnostate and praising Hitler. They lose touch with reality.

Emphasis mine, but I highlight that sentence because I’ve witnessed it firsthand on YouTube and social media. Especially on YouTube, where unscrupulous charlatans make their living off ad revenue or Patreon, there’s no incentive to stop escalating or dial it back. Hence the GamerGaters of yesteryear “just asking questions” about why everything has to be “multicultural” are now reciting neo-Nazi slogans and brandishing tiki torches and Kekistan flags.

And the thing that really gets me is I don’t know what can really break that programming. It’s one thing to literally hack into your dad’s email and unsubscribe him from right-wing newsletters like in The Brainwashing Of My Dad, but a tech-savvy shut-in won’t have someone to intervene or remind them of common decency and humanity. They’re not going to listen to us because we’re their beta-cuck feminoid enemies. All I can think is to support the work of Hope Not Hate or other organizations from former members of hate groups to offer another form of belonging. Because absent the NRA evaporating or a sudden outbreak of universal health care in the US, I don’t know what else can be done to reduce the frequency of these tragedies beyond just reminding people that we’re all human….

personalpest
personalpest
2 years ago

@ Katamount: Thanks for the kind words. Also, you bring up a good point: why are these young men so alienated in the first place? We need to address the root causes of their nihilism as well as working on gun control and similar measures. The old cliche is true: “Hurt people hurt people.”

Mels
Mels
2 years ago

@Surplus to Requirements & @opposablethumbs

Yep, spoon theory. “Spoonie(s)” is a term adopted by a lot of chronic illness communities to describe ourselves, because we’re always counting spoons.

For those unaware of spoon theory, it’s a framework devised to explain the experience of disability to abled people. Here’s a link.

Hexum7
Hexum7
2 years ago

Oh, poor sad sack Vman must be so down now that it’s clear that Cruz was somewhat handsome

He may have been an incel, however, as the thing that made him a shooter may also have caused people to avoid him.

That is, he may have been an incel due to his being a shooter, not a shooter due to being an incel