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Incels hail “our savior St. Nikolas Cruz” for Valentine’s Day school shooting [UPDATED]

Photos from the alleged shooter’s now-deleted Instagram page

By David Futrelle

The Internet’s incels long ago adopted Isla Vista killer Elliot Rodger, the maladjusted twentysomething who murdered six in cold blood as a kind of revenge for his “involuntary celibacy,” as a patron saint of sorts.

Now they are doing the same with Nikolas Cruz, the Florida teen who allegedly murdered 17 students and teachers at a high school in Parkland, Florida today. On Incels.Me — the web forum that Reddit’s incel population migrated to after the admins at Reddit shut their forum there down — one enthusiastic commenter got the discussion started by posting a thread titled “A hERo rises on this day of incel exclusion (Florida Valentines Day School Shooting).”  (All links in this post go to archived pages.)

The capitalized “ER” in “hERo” is of course a reference to Elliot Rodger.

In the thread, assorted incels cheered as the details of the shooting came out over the course of the day, declaring their “immense respect” for their new “HERO.” And some wondered — with more than a little justification — if the shooter wasn’t one of their fellow commenters on Incels.Me.

“Respect to him if he kills over 60 normies,” a commenter called Towncel declared. “Hopefully he isn’t just using 2 pistols and actually has an assault rifle,” he added in a followup comment.

Vman, a prolific commenter with over 2500 posts on the site was already set to declare Cruz his new idol.

holy shit its on valentines day! what a fucking hero! we have a new model! PLZ BE UGLY PLZ BE UGLY. WE NEED INCEL AWARNESS

Spicycurry was a little more reserved. “Watch the news blame incels rather than the femoids who mock us and oppress us,” he groused.

lonelyistheworld  has a rather different fear. “The media will probably try to cover up the fact that he’s an Incel,” he complained. “The elites know that there’s a huge problem with lonely men in the west.”

Naturally, many of the commenters hoped that most of the victims would be “femoids.”

“Hope his roastie kill count is high,” Reddit_is_for_cucks  opined

Roastie contribute nothing to the society anyway, sll they do is shopping and suck chads dick and get free stuff from cucks

Incel_Dikshit concurred, expressing his hope that the shooter had “snagged some degenerate roasties and depsrate beta orbiters with him.”

“Roastie” is a favorite incel slur for (cis) women, whose labia are thought (by incels) to resemble roast beef.

Many of the commenters took great pleasure in the fact that this murder spree took place on Valentine’s Day. “LIFEFUEL,” declared one. “The best Valentines Day in history buddy boyos.”

When several commenters expressed their uneasiness at this open celebration of mass murder, they were denounced as “Jooz.” Indeed, one prolific commenter called knajjd went so far as to justify the murder of young girls because, in his view

female children can, at best, be considered a timebomb. even if you believe that children are totes innocent creatures, etc. etc. that argument makes no sense since they’ll inevitably develop into roasties.

Comments like these continue for page after page; all of those quoted so far come from the first three pages of what is currently a ten page thread.

It didn’t take long for some of the commenters to wonder if the shooter hadn’t frequented Incels.Me. Several mentioned a recent Incels.Me thread in which a lurker posted an elaborately detailed threat to shoot up his former high school and other schools in the area (including an elementary school north of his high school) on February 12 before escaping by blending in with the those fleeing from the scene.

More than a few of the details match up with what happened today. The alleged shooter today targeted his former high school. There is a middle school northwest of the high school, though it is more west than north. Some reports suggest the shooter escaped the school by blending in with fleeing students. The date of the threatened rampage was only two days different from the actual assault. The gun he reportedly used is similar to, though not the same model as, the one mentioned in the post.

You can see the screenshotted post here.

It’s certainly possible that the threat posted to Incels.Me was nothing more than a fantasy, and that the similarities between it and the events that unfolded today mere coincidence.

EDITED TO ADD: But even if Cruz wasn’t the anonymous commenter on Incels.Me, he may well have thought of himself as an iucel. The Daily Beast reports that someone calling himself Nikolas Cruz left a comment on a YouTube video a year ago declaring that ““Elliot rodger will not be forgotten.” (Meanwhile, a self-described paramilitary white supremacist group in Florida is telling The Beast that Cruz had trained with them.)

Was Cruz an incel, a white supremacist — or both, or neither? The clues to his motivation are certainly unsettling. As is the existence of a forum overloaded with so many bitter, furious young men who look upon mass murder as a kind of righteous retribution for the refusal of “roasties” to offer them sex.

NOTE TO REGULAR READERS: I was planning on returning to regular posts here shortly. I’m sorry it had to be with a story on this horrendous incident.

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Eyes on the Right
Eyes on the Right
2 years ago

It’s good to have you back nonetheless.

tim gueguen
2 years ago

I wonder if any of them stopped to consider that some of Cruz’s victims might be themselves incels, perhaps even ones they know.

Laserqueen
Laserqueen
2 years ago

It’s still wonderful to see you again David.

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
2 years ago

I’m baffled that gorgeous women don’t flock to these bitter, jealous haters. Who wouldn’t want to hang out with guys who call women roasties and laud a mass murderer!

PS: Welcome back, David! So glad that you’re feeling well enough to post a column.

Madison
Madison
2 years ago

Welcome back, David!
Why does Reddit continue to let this hatred spread? These Incels are abusive and vile.

Laugher at Bigots
2 years ago

I mostly lurk now, but it’s great to have you back, David. Too bad it was such depressing subject matter that brought you back. Hopefully the next article is less sad and horrible.

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
2 years ago

Such a mix of happy and horrible when I checked my inbox. So good to see a new post. Heartbreaking that this is the topic.
Thanks, David. We appreciate what you do 💜🖤

Moggie
Moggie
2 years ago

Welcome back, David.

Here’s some David Bowie which might be relevant:

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
2 years ago

what terrible circumstance in which you make your return David! But I am glad you written a new article.

there is something specific and horrible about school shootings in America. feels like there is no escape, heavy sadness and hopelessness.

I simply wish they willl finally make more gun control. there should not need to make ‘school shooting drills’ for schools. this is not acceptable.

on Twitter victims of this shooting make live tweets – victims of previous shootings provide comfort 😢

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
2 years ago

@Valentin,

I just saw some of those tweets a few minutes ago 💔

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

I didn’t even notice there was a new post! Sorry it had to happen like this though.

I think this was my favorite quote

Watch the news blame incels rather than the femoids who mock us and oppress us,

Oh, how terrible it would be if the news blamed a shooting on the shooter rather than on the entire female half of the population. That just makes no sense at all!

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
2 years ago

Mish

I only read one – I didn’t want to read any more…

I just seen someone who said about it. followed thread and found them. then stopped.

Moggie
Moggie
2 years ago

Should the killer be referred to simply as “some asshole”, rather than by name? I’m thinking of the policy suggested in this comic:

http://nonadventures.com/2015/06/20/the-some-of-all-fears/

On “thoughts and prayers”:

http://nonadventures.com/2017/11/18/a-moment-of-paws/

occasional reader
occasional reader
2 years ago

Welcome back, David ! I hope you feel better. If not, take care of you, no need to rush.

Sincere condolences for the victims and their family. And to the pain of the loss, they have to endure those deepshit comments and behaviors from empathyless attentionwhinyvampyres.

That is becoming the fourth Saint Valentin Massacre (the most “famous” being 1929 Capone one, wikipedia providing the two others : 1349 – Strasbourg (France) – 900 Jews burned (yes, Nazis just have recycled an old hate) ; 1952 – Moule (Guadeloupe) – 4 deads, 14 injureds, when police fire at strikers (to note, some of the injured and deads were not strikers).

Damn, anything with massacre in it is never good (except in food), yet they cheer that. Still wondering how they dare to call themselves human being.

Non related infos :
Steam was providing SVD theme related games yesteday. One of them was… this game. A PUA game. Ok, it is less extreme than the one against feminism from the other day, yet, wow, what the fuck this thing doing here ? And i say “game”, but this game takes itself really seriously. As it has been done in collaboration with some kind of PUA guru, there is some kind of seriousness aura that may strike the ones already sensible to the PUA style of discourse. Not only it is sad for potential buyers, but, looking at the demo pictures of the game, i feel also sad for the actresses who have been paid for that. They hardly look genuinely happy, rather they often have a “let us quickly finish that and give me my paycheck please” look…
I do not have test it (will not put a ding in that dung), but it is some kind of descendant of the old FMV “Man enough” game. Except “Man enough” dialogs were so over the top and extreme that was making it funny (like a funny bad movie). This one is far too serious.
Rather than this one, i have tested Kitty Powers’ Matchmaker, which is far more fun and far more acceptable. All gender matchmaking, non-gendered pronouns use, very colorfull (no tatoo, though), some mini-games are funny. On the “less” side, no body type (every one is a thin non-ugly character), the impossibility to choose your own interests (the game randomnly attribute 3 to your character), the face decorations lack some options (no stubble or 3-day beard, as an example), and some games have too much randomness. Well, nothing is a big down. If you play on steam and if your steam friends also play this game, your character is send as a potential client/match in their game, and you receive them in yours as well. If some of you play this game and do not mind a casual player like me as steam friend, please let me know.

Have a nice day.

Lucrece
Lucrece
2 years ago

Just glad to see “you up and about”, so to speak. Yes, it is a pity it’s such shitty news, but it was really good to get that notification email.

Knitting Cat Lady
Knitting Cat Lady
2 years ago

Yeah, I was wondering about all that when I came across the news.

According to what I read the alleged murderer was expelled from school for violence among other things.

And apparently it is easier for young adults to buy and assault rifle (AR-15) than buying a bottle of beer in Florida.

Something is seriously wrong there.

‘Se don’t trust young people to drink responsibly, but rifles are just fine!’

The fact that there are more or less daily mass shootings now and that the major news outlets only report on the really high profile ones is sickening.

The USA has about 4% of the world’s population.

And owns 42% of the world’s guns.

personalpest
personalpest
2 years ago

Hi, David. I’d like to join with the people saying welcome back, even (or especially) under these terrible circumstances. All sympathy to the victims (for whatever that’s worth), and fuck the NRA.

Anyway, one of the incel comments really struck me.

Roastie contribute nothing to the society anyway,

1. And you do?

2. I find it bitterly ironic when incels talk about “society” since they’re so anti-social. Their entire worldview is based on hatred and resentment, which is not a good basis for friendship or cooperation. What would their ideal world be like? As WHTM has discussed, some of these guys fantasize about a Mad Max future where they would reign as barbarian warlords, which is pathetic on many levels.

Alexis Filth
Alexis Filth
2 years ago

There’s a reason America has so many shootings. Yes, the lax gun laws make things easier, but I don’t think that’s the main thing.
It’s a stew of toxic masculinity and white supremacy. These young men feel that they aren’t getting the respect, and rewards from life that areally their automatic due for being white and male. They are terrified when they see equality coming, they see minorities & women starting to move to am equal playing field and they know, deep down that being a mediocre cis-het white male isn’t an automatic ticket to success anymore. So they rage, and that rage boils over into violence.
Canada has fairly high gun ownership, Switzerland as well. They don’t have these problems. America is unique in that it was born and built on white supremacy and patriarchy.

P.s. welcome back David.

Shadowplay
2 years ago

You’re a stronger person than I. Bailed on the response at the incel hangout in a nauseous fury after about a page, and even then I spent more time on the thread where one asked if it was a hangout for psychopaths instead of incels, looking for an even vaguely human response.
(Sorry for the ableist word, but it’s the thread title.)

Anyway, welcome back David. Shitty way to restart. 🙁

Shadowplay
2 years ago

Of course, our favorite rage pudding Alex Jones is already shouting about false flags.

Edit: Same link as Victorious Parasol posted on previous thread. Only just saw that post.

Englishboy
Englishboy
2 years ago

The thing is incels believe the whole world is laughing at them and mocking them for being a virgin. And that every women who rejects him must HATE him and want him dead, which is what causes the hate to build up inside them. They hate the fact that they arent cut out to date, and they just dont realise that there is more to life than getting laid or dating.

Memo to incels; Theres nothing wrong with not being able to date. Theres everything wrong with blaming women and being a hateful little shit about it. I know men who are 33 year old virgins, who live a nice and fullfilled life. I know men who are married and are having a rough time. And vice versa of course.

I wish incels would stop thinking about dating and sex, and BAN themselves from letting that entering their thought. For the good of society for god sake

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
2 years ago

Rage pudding is my new favourite term 😊

@Valentin,
I know what you mean. These are people my son’s age (or a wee bit older). My brain goes some way into trying to picture it, then shuts down in horror.

@wwth,
This is off-current-topic, but I’m posting it here as everyone’s probably migrated over from the other thread: I couldn’t open the link you shared (Mirai Nagasu’s triple axel), but a quick Google fixed that. Her face when she’s landed, that whole pose, is just magic. Obv the triple itself was incredible, too!

Shadowplay
2 years ago

Whoever had under 14 hours for Trump to play the “mentally disturbed” card wins a prize. 🙁

@Mish – it just fits the way his little cheeks wobble when he’s tantruming. 😛

Natasha Whilk
Natasha Whilk
2 years ago

This lurker is very glad to see a post and grateful for the horrifying incel update. David, I hope that you are feeling better and continue to improve.

Natasha Whilk
Natasha Whilk
2 years ago

@Moggie: YES to support that policy–actually, ever since I heard this song, way back when.
https://youtu.be/rjUTa71Ph48

Weird (thumper of trumpanzees) Eddie
Weird (thumper of trumpanzees) Eddie
2 years ago

Trump to play the “mentally disturbed” card

is hatred a mental illness?
is self-centeredness?
is entitlement?
is victim blaming?

I don’t know what this latest shooter’s agenda was (though I believe “all of the above” would NOT be a stretch), but a huge percentage of the angry white man shooters have those characteristics… and the dumpster calls them “mentally disturbed”….

He HAS to, if he characterized these shooters as “hateful, self-centered, entitled victim-blamers”, he’d be talking about himself….

Shadowplay
2 years ago

Doubt it’s that deep, my friend. This is Trump we’re talking, the guy who thinks introspection is a medical procedure involving the arse and cameras.

The simpler reasoning is $31 million from the NRA buys a lot of deflection.

Weird (thumper of trumpanzees) Eddie
Weird (thumper of trumpanzees) Eddie
2 years ago

Her face when she’s landed, that whole pose, is just magic. Obv the triple itself was incredible, too!

http://akns-images.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/2018111/rs_1024x759-180211195726-1024.Mirai-Nagasu-winter-olympics.ct.021118.jpg

This is my computer background now

for the broflakes who say figure skating isn’t really a “sport”, try THAT… and get back to me when you master it!!

Myriad
Myriad
2 years ago

I’m so glad to see you back, David. I hope that means that you are feeling much better.

This makes my heart ache though. All I can say is my heart felt condolences to the victims.

ischemgeek
ischemgeek
2 years ago

… I wish I was good with fucking poetry because the ongoing mass shootings in the US fucking well demands a Roy Zimmerman esque biting satire with a tone similar to “Thanks for the support”.

Cuz the politicians are going to wring their hands, bleat about thoughts and prayers, continue to rake in NRA political donations, and do sweet fuck all about this shit.

Seriously, I’m Canadian. We don’t have mass shootings at anything close to the rate you do. Why? Because our gun acquisition process makes it hard to get a legal gun, limits access to the most lethal types to military garrisons, requires a minimum amount of safety training (and if you fail your safety course, no guns for you until you pass it), children are not allowed to own them (they can be in possession under the direct supervision of an adult with a special license after completing a training course), and finally, the privilege of gun ownership here is subject to revocation if you demonstrate you’re a threat to society.

Is it perfect? No. We still have gun homicides, and occasionally, a mass murderer goes on a killing spree. But it’s a damn sight better than what you’ve got. Our rates of almost every type of violent crime is lower, and what mass killing incidents we have, per capita, are fewer, father between, and typically less lethal.

Shadowplay
2 years ago

@ishchemgeek

English here, and I agree with you. We have even more controlled gun ownership rules, and even less problems in that respect than Canada does.

However …

Your last paragraph is a little dodgy to my mind. The American readers here know there are serious problems and discuss them frequently. They don’t really deserve “your country sucks” from an outsider.

Just my thought – don’t let your rage hit out at the wrong targets. (and yeah, I’ve been justifiably slapped down for doing exactly that before elsewhere. Tried to learn from it.) Sorry for the criticism.

Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Agent of the FemiNest Collective; Keeper of a Hell Toupee, and all-around Intergalactic Meanie
Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Agent of the FemiNest Collective; Keeper of a Hell Toupee, and all-around Intergalactic Meanie
2 years ago

A couple of random thoughts on this:

1. When the priests were talking about sacrificing things for Lent yesterday (Ash Wednesday), this IS NOT what they were talking about. You’re supposed to give up things like chocolate and cigarettes for 40 days – or alternatively do a good deed or three a day for 40 days – not give up things like childrens’ lives or a sense of safety in your neighborhood.

2. Anyone taking bets on how long it’ll be until it’s discovered that one or more of the dead and wounded turned the shooter down for a date, and therefore is morally/ethically responsible for yesterday’s slaughter?

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Oh, I got busy and forgot to share a little Valentine’s poem I read. My friend’s dad texted it to her.

Roses are red
My colon is plump
Excuse me, please
I must take a Trump

Anyway. The gun control issue is one of many reasons to have publicly funded elections with strict spending limits and strict regulations for what outside groups can do. Most of the public is actually for at least some gun control. The gun fetishists are a very vocal minority. However, no laws have any chance at all at passing. Because so many congresspeople depend on the NRA for funding and are terrified of the NRA coming for them with negative and misleading ads during election season. I mean, it’s no excuse. They should do the right thing anyway. But clearly, they aren’t up for it.

Saint Podkayne
Saint Podkayne
2 years ago

@ischemgeek

It terrifies me how much ‘bleedthrough’ there is from the US in general, though. I know quite a few Canadian Trump supporters. They know zero, nada, about local politics, but they are pros at whatever some American politician said today. Like, sure, I’ll glance at some online news and see ‘the Governor of Hoohah said X’, but face it, I don’t know what a Governor does. THEY DO. But they don’t know what their MP’s job is. This leads to some really yahoo conversations where they seem rock-solid that Canadian politics have always been separated between values of ‘Liberal’ and ‘Conservative’ which are historically unchanging… and are patterned exactly on the US’ Democrats and Republicans. The upside I see is that they are generally not at all active in getting their Americanized ideologies into play locally and seem genuinely confused about what country they’re in. Like, most of them want more access to guns, -but they discuss it in terms of the NRA-.

Bina
2 years ago

Glad to see you back, David, even under these sucky circumstances.

Also, “hERo”? OFFS, what a zERo.

damoflances
2 years ago

Good to see you back, David.

Bina
2 years ago

Some might say he’s a Dreamer,
But I think they might be wrong.
I also think I’ll just leave this here,
Wish I could write a better song!

kupo
kupo
2 years ago

CN: Animal Abuse

I read that this kid has put up videos of himself hurting and killing animals. How does that kind of stuff not get an immediate police investigation?

Shadowplay
2 years ago

@kupo

According to CNN, there were at least two threat reports put in to the FBI about this nork (one was from a youtuber). The FBI, in it’s wisdom, didn’t bother telling the local cops.

ETA: https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/964159505675292672

mrex
mrex
2 years ago

Gee, what a fun group, those incels. You know, I was recently rejected by a girl*, and I like having a good time, so let me try it out. *puts on incel hat*

********************************

@Redsilkphoenix

“2. Anyone taking bets on how long it’ll be until it’s discovered that one or more of the dead and wounded turned the shooter down for a date, and therefore is morally/ethically responsible for yesterday’s slaughter?”

It goes without saying that it’s the Roasties fault, femoid! If the shooter had been at home, being sexually serviced, and eating a homemade sandwich, do you think he would be out and about? Tell me, have you ever seen someone commit mass murder while recieving oral sex?

That’s right, you never have femoid, because it’s physically impossible to commit mass murder and recieve oral sexat the same time!. Therefore it IS women’s faults that they do not perform oral sex on everyone in the world 24/7, without breaks, peeing, eating, or breathing, so that no one has a chance to buy guns and commit mass murders!!!!1111!11

QED bitches. Step up, do your part of keeping society together!

******************************

*takes off incel hat* Wow, actually that didn’t make me feel any better. Now, instead of feeling sad about a couple rejections, I’m feeling rejected by *EVERYONE*. It’s almost like the whole incel thing has nothing to do with processing pain, or with finding camaraderie in the face of rejection, but about finding excuses to act out on violent fantasies. 🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

Guess I just stick to accepting that relationships come and go, and that some never are meant to happen.

*Yes literally. I may like girls, but 90% of women are straight. Looks like my gaydar still sucks.

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
2 years ago

<3 Welcome back David! I wish they were better circumstances, too. I hope you're mended enough to continue, but if you still need some time, take whatever you need.

This whole thing is awful. I mean, we've seen this how many times now? And the people with the power to do something about it continue to do nothing. The Republicans especially, as well as a very large chunk of the Democrats, need to be piled up in front of a bulldozer and pushed into a landfill. Plenty of seagulls for them to eat there. America needs a governance that isn't swayed by donations or the threat of negative ads. The large groundswell of interest in politics from young people is very nice to see! I hope that 2018 is a pivot point for you guys down there. Keep fighting for it. It can get better.

@ischemgeek, @Saint Podkanye (and others)

We Canadians need to take a great big swig of shut-our-smug-face-up juice. Not a week ago did Colton Boushie's murderer walk out of court as a free man. Shot a teenager in the back of the head with a handgun for trespassing on his farm. Court rejected all First Nations jurors for being “biased”, despite the community being predominantly FN (jury of peers, indeed). After the jury gave their verdict and the court adjourned, they and the murderer ran from the courtroom.

White supremacy is here, it’s real, and it’s not an American import. The KKK has operated in Canada for at least a century. Alberta’s branch only stopped being recognized as an official group in 2007 – and that’s only because they didn’t bother to apply for official recognition. The Sons of Odin are real Canadian problems. The Three Percenters are home grown Canadian terrorists. Rebel Media has arguably as long a reach as Breitbart, has certainly helped shape and support the Nazi uprisings in America, and is deeply embedded in the federal Conservative Party, not to mention the provincial conservative parties.

The fact that we have fewer gun-related murders is trivial when we’re conducting a decimation of the First Nations, a continuation of the horrible offenses of our forefathers. We segregate them into an apartheid and then blame them for their trauma coping mechanisms. It should humiliate us to the core.

Let’s not get angry at the American failure to sensibly restrict firearms while we’re brutally oppressing the original inhabitants of this country our ancestors stole. We have our own guilt and shame to work on first.

(Sorry if this came across as too accusative! What happened to Colton Boushie has made me blisteringly upset, and the blase reaction of the rest of the country even more so.)

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

I’m sure everyone here will be surprised to find out that the shooter did have a history of domestic violence.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2018/02/14/florida-school-shooting-suspect-made-disturbing-social-media-posts/In8NVjDOX68Xl7QYHTibdL/story.html?s_campaign=bostonglobe%3Asocialflow%3Atwitter

Student Victoria Olvera, 17, said Cruz had been abusive to his ex-girlfriend and that his expulsion was over a fight with her new boyfriend. He’d

In addition to gun control, we clearly need to be taking violence against women more seriously. Not just because violence against women is terrible in and of itself, but because giving men and boys a slap on the wrist or less for violent misogynistic entitlement seems to do nothing but encourage them to build up to greater violence.

Katamount (formerly Gussie Jives)
Katamount (formerly Gussie Jives)
2 years ago

@ischemgeek

To say nothing of strict magazine limits. And yes, what Scildfreja Unnyðnes said about our own deep-seated racism and white supremacy.

@personalpest

You bring up an important point. It was actually something I saw on a clip from Chapo Trap House where their guest was commenting that for people that go on and on about “Western society”, they don’t really have much investment in that society, nor like much about it. A lot of these alt-right a-holes are irreligious, so they won’t be invested in the local churches, they’re anti-intellectual so there goes learning any kind of local history, and plenty of them are anti-social, so that throws out participation in any local customs or cultural events. It’s a bizarre tribalism where the members share a disdain for their own tribe as much as other tribes. Meanwhile Jenora and I were admiring the Governor General’s Coat of Arms, which is a position that is traditionally buoyed by Canadian Tories as a symbol of the monarchy. Yet I’m willing to bet that any number of Canadian alt-righters probably don’t like a feeeee-male (and particularly one as successful and multi-talented as Julie Payette) in that position representing another feeeee-male as Head of State.

We all know “the West” is code for “white”, but if you were to really drill down into the dog-whistle, they can’t actually name a “Western value” they like beyond “free speech”, which of course they mean as “freedom to say terrible things to those different than us without social consequence.” But if you look at a document like the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, there’s Equality protections, democratic protections, freedom of movement, due process rights, and language rights, in addition to the fundamental freedoms of expression, assembly and the press. I don’t hear them championing these, funnily enough.

The guest Chapo had (and I wish I remembered her name, but she was Irish from her accent) had a saying that I think sums things up: “If the youth are not incorporated into the tribe, they’ll burn down the village.” If they’re forming tribes on incel forums and 4chan, clearly they don’t feel like they belong to their village. And that’s one scary thought.

ischemgeek
ischemgeek
2 years ago

I am fully able to simultaneously feel deep and abiding rage over the continued inaction of US politicians on mass murders and hold Canada (and literally every other developed nation in the world for that matter) up as an example of how to do this one thing better while recognizing that my nation is not perfect.

I don’t want to be disrespectful to the dead so all I will say is this: Structural racism in Canada is a very important topic. It definitely needs work. Here and now – on a thread about a mass shooting and the subculture that encouraged it the day after it happened – is not an appropriate place for that discussion. If you want to discuss, I will happily do so elsewhere.

Dreamer
Dreamer
2 years ago

I’m so glad you’re back! I sometimes get asked about how I know about so many right -wingfringe groups and their links to mainstream politics. It’s mostly because of following your page as well as SPLC and a few others. Thank you for the education regarding these guys.

A fb buddy posted about this shooting asking for details, and somebody else posted that the shooter might not be here legally and was anti-Trump. This was before much was known. I asked for sources – no response of course.

Dr Hoveiny
Dr Hoveiny
2 years ago

Good to hear from you again David!

Moggie, I posted that video on FB last night too, I didn’t know it was about a school shooter until I saw the new Bowie documentary on HBO recently (didn’t listen to that album as much as the one after). Super chilling.

I read the memoir Every Last Tie from Ted Kaczynski’s brother recently for my book club, and he has a psychologist in the epilogue talking about what makes a shooter or terrorist like Kaczynski (I know we are probably all familiar with this by now): having narcissistic traits and an overblown sense of entitlement, wanting to be famous and known for something (though obviously not necessarily in TK’s case), and feeling humiliated and out of options. Checking all the incel/MRA/toxic masculinity boxes basically.

They do exactly what the incels here are doing with lionizing people like Elliott Rodgers, they admire and follow the habits and planning of past shooters and terrorists. The whole “fame” part of it is really disgusting. It’s like a sick hack to be famous by any means. The psychologist in the book suggested not publishing shooter’s names ever and only referring to them in humiliating terms like “loser” and “coward” to attempt to curb the fame and infamy incentive.

Moggie
Moggie
2 years ago

WWTH:

Student Victoria Olvera, 17, said Cruz had been abusive to his ex-girlfriend and that his expulsion was over a fight with her new boyfriend.

Some incels will reject him, since he had a girlfriend. Some will embrace him, since she was an ex-girlfriend, and no doubt that was her fault.

kupo:

I read that this kid has put up videos of himself hurting and killing animals. How does that kind of stuff not get an immediate police investigation?

Yeah, animal cruelty is a huge red flag. I suspect a lot of human lives would be saved if society took animal cruelty more seriously, stopping killers before they “graduate” from dogs and cats to people. But it sounds like this dude had more red flags than the Fourth International, and they were all ignored.

mrex
mrex
2 years ago

@WWTH

” I mean, it’s no excuse. They should do the right thing anyway. But clearly, they aren’t up for it.”

There is no “do the right thing” against money. Money pays for campaigns, money pays for information and scandals. Even with Trump, some of his scandals have involved private investigators and private money.

So yeah,

” The gun control issue is one of many reasons to have publicly funded elections with strict spending limits and strict regulations for what outside groups can do.”

This. I’m so sick of charlatans with their fake smiles, and their fake promises, and their special interest group funding.

@Shadowplay

“They don’t really deserve “your country sucks” from an outsider.”

Personally, (and this is just my opinion), I actually don’t mind “your country sucks” from outsiders. I appreciate hearing views from other countries, because it helps me realize that the things happening in the US aren’t just “the way things are”, and I think it helps me gain some perspective.

What DOES piss me off as an USian, is getting condescending lectures about American culture/life/politics from non-USians because they disagree with me. If you don’t actually live in the US, what the fuck do you know about it? What you’ve seen on the TV? What you’ve read on the internet? Fuck off, you don’t know shit . JUST to start with, the US is a very large and diverse place, you fuckers.

Bonus points goes if the nonUSian wants to pretend to be a born and raised MURUCAN so that they look authoritative, but doesn’t actually know (or care) enough to use American grammar/spelling. I’ve seen this happen several times in my time as a feminist on the internet. (Mostly from MRAs/trolls). And I never correct it, or point it out. I just let the asshole go along with their ass hanging out, and laugh, laugh, laugh.

@Moggie

“Should the killer be referred to simply as “some asshole”, rather than by name?”

YES!

@Mish

“I know what you mean. These are people my son’s age (or a wee bit older). My brain goes some way into trying to picture it, then shuts down in horror.”

Annnd they’re boy’s younger than your son’s age, as well. Raising kids sucks nowadays.

ETA: forgot to post. And forgot to say how awesome it is to see David back fighting the good fight again!

Eveloria
Eveloria
2 years ago

@Scildfreja Unnyðnes

I completely agree that Canadians need to take the anger we have at these mass shootings in the states and actually apply the same level of outrage and calls for action in our own country. I hate how this recent trial has brought up the issue of “what are we allowed to do to protect our property?” As though property is ever worth as much as a persons life! It’s absurd that the debate has become at what point it’s okay to kill another human.

Between the trial up here and the mass shootings down south I’m almost scared to read the news these days. I usually try to read as much as I can from as many sources as I can so that I can at least try to be informed on things but sometimes I just don’t want to know.

Living in a very conservative part of Canada doesn’t help. I know several of those Canadian Trump supporters that were mentioned earlier. Although in my experience they aren’t knowledgeable about anything, local or otherwise, they just want to be racist and awful. I used to work with a Trump supporting woman who once said to me after vacation “How did you like London? I’ve heard it doesn’t even look like London anymore with turbans and those people everywhere.” She’s a big part of the reason I quit that job.

Ooglyboggles
Ooglyboggles
2 years ago

Glad to see that David’s back, even if it’s due to circumstances that all of us wish weren’t so prevalent in US society.

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