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doggoes kitties open thread

Merry Christmas, if you’re into that sort of thing!

Hope you all are having a lovely day today, whatever this day means to you (or doesn’t). Consider this an open thread, to discuss whatever, from presents to politics to cats to whatever holiday stress you might be feeling.

And here’s some stuff I found on the Twitter.

— David, who is hanging in there

https://twitter.com/awwcuteness/status/945193410662682624

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mrex
mrex
6 years ago

@kupo

I was joking around with them?

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
6 years ago

@Shadowplay,

I’m more comfortable, personally, with working with around 50% of communication in person to person being nonverbal or semi-verbal (tone, for example – I mean, it’s verbal, but it’s not words, as are the filler noises.). You going to tell me that’s on the high side too ?

Nah 🙂
I’ll tell you what you already know: things like this are incredibly difficult to quantify, partly because they involve squillions of possible variables. I honestly don’t see the use in trying to fix on a number (not saying you were doing this; a lot of researchers in the field do).
Cultural differences in comm are indeed fascinating, and there’s some good research that manages to avoid over-generalisation. Sadly, this is not the case with gender differences, as far as I know.
I find the focus on extroversion (as inherently positive) especially frustrating in comm studies, myself, but don’t get me started!

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
6 years ago

I have been enjoying the stripper banter, myself (but I am very easily amused, so…)

Re music – I don’t know if these are to anyone’s taste, but I like them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXt5n9Ni5p0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0I6A-Cwfjl8&nohtml5=False

*pls embed, there’s a nice YouTube, pls?*

Shadowplay
Shadowplay
6 years ago

@Mish

The number thing is more a matter of practicality for me. It gives me a reasonably reliable ball park of how much subtext I can fill in at gambling odds reliable when talking to someone using a translation chain where we’re neither of us using our first or second languages and are trying to get by using intermediaries who are themselves using languages 3 through 7 and who dislike each other. Talking gets complex fast in those cases!

And you’ve surprised me! There are non-cultural gender differences in communication? I was under the impression all such differences are learned. So much for sleeping tonight, time to satisfy my curiousity 🙂

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
6 years ago

@Shadowplay:

Language-Path: Terran->Triskweline->Pendaran
Hexapodia is the true insight!

🙂

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
6 years ago

@Shadowplay,

Oops, I think I failed to communicate clearly (which is pretty funny in the current context).
I didn’t mean to suggest that there are innate gender differences in communication. There might be, but nature/nurture usually work together rather than separately, so I’m not sure how such differences could be isolated.

What I was trying to say (obv not very clearly) was that
1. there’s some nuanced research on differences across cultures, and how they communicate, which is better than the usual “western culture = individualist/good; all other cultures = weird” paradigm (I may have over-simplified there). However,

2. I don’t know of much work on gender differences in communication that has nuance or complexity, unfortunately. Much of it tends to be based on a very fixed and normative binary. Slightly more sophisticated version of Men are from Mars, women are from Venus (twitch, twitch).
One of the worst examples: a video I had my students analyse, which claimed that you can tell if a woman is interested in you, via her nonverbals, regardless of what she actually says. Her nonverbals will not lie. It was so ick on so many levels…

Apologies for my lack of clarity! Also, comms is not my main field of expertise, so any Mammotheers who know it better please correct me on the current research if need be 🙂

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
6 years ago

Alabama certifies Jones’ win over Moore

http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/28/politics/john-merrill-roy-moore-doug-jones-alabama-cnntv/index.html

Shadowplay
Shadowplay
6 years ago

@Surplus

Anyone who can Vinge on demand gets my vote 🙂 But yeah – it’s like that. 🙂

@Mish

I know the RCDS has studies (not great, some of them, and others are from Victoria’s time, but they’re there) on cross cultural communication and cultural assumptions/norms as a factor – I’m not sure if they’re available to the academic public though.

Your twitch is most definitely shared – John Gray should be stripped of his diploma, assuming the mill as printed it has any pride in product 😛
That book was the biggest load of tosh since von Daniken’s typewriter drank itself to death. So of course it sells well.

Shadowplay
Shadowplay
6 years ago

Sorry for DP: This looks a hell of a lot like a confession to me:

Trump: Even if there was collusion with Russia, ‘it’s not a crime’

Pull quote:

“There is no collusion, and even if there was, it’s not a crime,” he continued. “But there’s no collusion.”

It’s from the Hill, if the link messes up on me again.

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
6 years ago

Rose Marie spent 90 years in show business. In her role as Sally Rogers, she was man-hungry — and a comedy writer, woo-hoo!

‘Dick Van Dyke Show’ star Rose Marie dead at 94

NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Updated: Thursday, December 28, 2017, 10:02 PM

Rose Marie, known best for her role as comedy writer Sally Rogers on “The Dick Van Dyke Show,” died Thursday.

She was 94.

The legendary actress, who was born in New York City in 1923, starred in her own NBC radio show at 5 years old. Years later, she worked as a teenage nightclub singer before returning to the radio.

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.3724612.1514508534!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_1200/5880763g.jpg

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv/dick-van-dyke-show-star-rose-marie-dead-94-article-1.3724613

Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
Kat, ambassador of the feminist government in exile
6 years ago

Following up on Mish’s comment about Simon & Schuster rejecting Milo’s manuscript (boo-effin’-hoo), I’ve copied and pasted more of Milo’s editor’s comments:

On Yiannopoulos’ style:
Comment [A3]: Avoid parenthetical insults—they just diminish your authority. Throughout the book you’re [sic] best points seem to be lost in a sea of self-aggrandizement and scattershot thinking.

Comment [A185]: This is definitely not the place for more of your narcissism.

Comment [A293]: …You can’t just toss out poorly thought out theories about “going back into the closet,” as you might in a college lecture.

Comment [A407]: Tiresome and off the point.

Comment [A418]: The whole chapter is a problem in tone. Your usual style NEGATES any value your information might have.

Comment [A424]: Ego and self-aggrandizement backfire in book.
On his humor or lack thereof:

Comment [A12]: Delete irrelevant and superfluous ethnic joke.

Comment [A96]: Gets in the way of the point you’re making—and is not even funny.

Comment [Al44]: Three unfunny jokes in a row. DELETE.

Comment [A183]: Deleting this. It’s clearly the wrong joke in the wrong place. At a certain point, you have to decide that the importance of your message is more important than your irreverent side.

Comment [A244]: Attempts at humor here are too weak and too long.

Comment [A406]: This is not the time or place for another black-dick joke.
On hypocrisy:

When he accuses feminism of being a merchandise money-grab:
Comment [A726]: Um… like your MILO SWAG?

When he accuses feminist Jessica Valenti of hate speech:
Comment [A137]: If that headline is hate speech, THIS WHOLE BOOK is hate speech.

When he calls feminists “attention-seeking:”
Comment [A198]: This is what people say about you.

When he calls the mainstream media “partisan propaganda masquerading as journalism:”
Comment [A267]: You MUST ACKNOWLEDGE that this is EXACTLY what people accuse you and Breitbart of being: “a new age of partisan propaganda masquerading as journalism.”

When he references “anonymous trolls and unscrupulous activists:”
Comment [A498]: Many would call you one of those things.

When he suggests conservatives need on-screen representation:
Comment [A345]: You’re basically making an argument for representation here—that kids need visible conservative role models to become conservatives themselves. Do you also then agree, that kids of color need role models on screens as well?

When he calls Gawker stupid for outing Peter Thiel:
Comment [A590]: But didn’t you out Jack Dorsey of Twitter on Breitbart?
On facts:

On Hillary Clinton’s “demonic rituals”:
Comment [A32]: This entire paragraph is just repeating Fake News. There was NO blood, NO semen and there was NO Satanism. Delete.

On claims the left has always hated America:
Comment [A74]: NO. IT. HAS. NOT.

On denying the existence of fake news:
Comment [A98]: …To deny the existence of fake news entirely is preposterous. Too many people have seen—and fallen for—fake-news stories for this section to have even a shred of credibility. DELETE

On accusing the left of “crying wolf” about Trump’s crimes:
Comment [A264]: Much wasn’t wolf—much of what the media reported about Trump was true.

On claiming that the Cold War ended when America landed on the moon:
Comment [A409]: Moon landing was 1969. Berlin Wall didn’t fall till 1990. Russia quitting the space race was NOT the end of the Cold War.

On claiming Trump is the most gay friendly Republican president ever:
Comment [A588]: Except for his vice president and every proposed member of his cabinet.
On race:

When he claims celebrities are only moving to white nations:
Comment [A59]: Let’s not call South Africa “white.”

On his penchant for “denizens of the dark continent”:
Comment [A68]: Rephrase this. “Dark continent” will irritate in the wrong way. Sounds like “darkies.”
On feminism:

On opening the chapter with physical insults:
Comment [A120]: Don’t start chapter with accusation that feminists = fat

On the use of the word “lesbianie:”
Comment [A127]: No need to drag the lesbians into this. And DON’T use lesbian as a slur!

On feminists being against caring for children:
Comment [A143]: Feminists can care for children. So can lesbians.
On language:

On male feminists:
Comment [A205]: Stick with virgins. “Perverts” is unnecessary.

On Mitt Romney:
Comment [A280]: Let’s leave “cuck” out of it here.

On transgender people:
Comment [A166]: I will not accept a manuscript that labels an entire class of people “mentally ill.”
On WTF:

When he suggests that the next generation of gay geniuses are being mopped up instead of being born:
Comment [A318]: …Do you mean that semen is being mopped up? And that the gay men spilling their seed would have produced gay offspring? Because that isn’t true.
On logic:

Comment [A452]: How? Absurd charge

Comment [A453]: Again, absurd charge

Comment [A456]: No

Comment [A457]: This entire argument is ridiculous

Comment [A458]: This would never happen

Comment [A459]: This is not true

Comment [A460]: This is not true either

Comment [A462]: Not necessarily true

Comment [A463]: Not true

When he asks confidently “Is my argument a few paragraphs back starting to make sense now?”
Comment [A305]: NO!

When he suggested the reader is on their way to graduating from the University of Milo:
Comment [A476]: Are you kidding? You would have lost them pages and pages ago.
On the chapter “Why Ugly People Hate Me”:

Comment [A416]: Delete entire chapter. The book is better overall without hitting these “ugly people” notes in the other chapters and better overfill by deleting this one.

On Milo’s Personal Beauty Routine:
Comment [A490]: This feels like a Patrick Bateman joke, If so, not worth making. If you intend it sincerely, this is not that kind of book.

Comment [A471]: All this pop psychology is hogwash. You can’t say ugly people are drawn to the left. Have you ever seen the people at a Trump rally?

https://slate.com/arts/2017/12/the-best-editor-comments-from-milo-dangerous.html

As a freelance editor, what I find even more fascinating than the idiocy of Milo’s manuscript (and I have to go there: what did Simon & Schuster expect — something well reasoned!) is the brutality of the comments. I was trained to be a complete diplomat in all of my dealings with an author. In fact, working as a copy editor was where I got my early experience as a diplomat, which I use in my position of ambassador of the feminist government in exile.*

For example, where the S&S editor says, “Don’t start chapter with accusation that feminists = fat,” I would say something along the lines of “Not all feminists are fat. Think of Gloria Steinem, Marlo Thomas, and Hillary Clinton. I suggest rewording here.”

And where the S&S editor says, on claims the left has always hated America, “NO. IT. HAS. NOT.,” I would say something like this: “What is your proof that the left has always hated America? I suggest that you include citations of writing in mainstream (not alt-right) publications or delete.”

*Joke

mrex
mrex
6 years ago

@Mish

“I have been enjoying the stripper banter, myself (but I am very easily amused, so…)”

I’m glad that at least someone realized that it was said jokingly. Jokes about sending hot strippers out into the night to cool off may not be everyone’s (anyone’s) cup of tea, but I was assuming that because the thread started punny, that no-one would take any of it serious. Fuck the internet and it’s lack of nonverbal communication.

@Kupo, I don’t know why you bother to read my posts if you’re going to assume the worst of me in literally every situation. I’m sure I deserve your hate, but why spend time interacting with someone when you so obviously hate them? You’re only making me feel upset and misunderstood, which prompts fights between us. Just hit the skip button.

Re: Music

They probably don’t count as recent, (or as angry chick music because only the singer is a woman), but I’ve always had a weirdly soft spot for the yeah yeah yeahs. They just put me in a good mood.

Ok, so half the reason why I do love this video is because it’a paired with parts of Ruby Rose’s ‘Break Free’. I’ve been dealing with biphobia today, so this video just turns my sads into glads. Plus I’m sure its misandronic as fuck. ?

Not necessarily angry but it’s been stuck in my head all night.

I could probably get away with putting some 7 year bitch here, since they released a recording of one of their concerts from the 90s a few years back… :p

The lead singer of 7 year bitch has released a few solo albums as of recent though…

Arctic Ape
Arctic Ape
6 years ago

Some GamerGate veterans have noted the recent WHO classification of excessive gaming as mental disorder. Some suspect it’s actually an underhanded revenge from the SJWs.

https://twitter.com/GamerTakes/status/946431295080599552

Responses are snarky.

Yes, Zoe Quinn and Anita Sarkeesian actually control the WHO.

I should note that Zoe and Anita are actually literally WHO.

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
6 years ago

Well, pack up, all the punner wannabes, because Arctic Ape (aka PunKing) is here! Seriously, you make me embarrassed to even try 😀 😀

@mrex,

No probs – I’m a sucker for puns and double entrendre. Very immature, me.
Also, I love the Yeah Yeah Yeahs <3

banned@4chan.org
[email protected]
6 years ago

What’s this? An excuse for some musical nostalgia?

https://youtu.be/GpBFOJ3R0M4

Moggie
Moggie
6 years ago

WWTH, oh I loved Ani DiFranco back in the 90s! I must admit I’m not familiar with her more recent work. Just now dipped into her 2017 album on Spotify, and it sounds very different.

This was more my vintage:

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
6 years ago

This is one of my “I need a pick-me-up” songs:

abars01
abars01
6 years ago

*sigh*. Wife With a Purpose is back on Twitter.

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
6 years ago

@[email protected]

Good grief, I played that whole album to death! And that song was a particular favourite.
I haven’t been able to listen to Garbage (or certain other bands) as their music coincided with my intro to a certain chemical, the use of which derailed me completely for a few years.
It was great to hear Shirley growling again just now.

Moggie
Moggie
6 years ago

Apparently, Shirley got to play a Terminator in The Sarah Connor Chronicles? I can imagine her enjoying that.

Jesalin
Jesalin
6 years ago

@VP

One of mine as well!

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
6 years ago

@Jesalin

Yay! I can also recommend this:

Hambeast
Hambeast
6 years ago

wwth – Not recent, but my absolute favorite song of unrequited love is Mexican Wrestler by Jill Sobule.

PeeVee the (Tired of the Militant Plasticfaced) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Tired of the Militant Plasticfaced) Sarcastic
6 years ago

Abars, not as @apurposefulwife, she’s not. Did she register under another name?

Dormousing_it
Dormousing_it
6 years ago

RE: Milo and his so-called book

Look, I’m middle-aged and not well-versed in popular culture, but I’m astounded that Milo got a book deal from a major publishing house. IMO, he has nothing of any substance to say. Has he ever had an original thought? Everything he expounds upon is derivative, at best. I don’t think he’s even a good troll.

Awhile ago, I compared him to Andrew Dice Clay*. It’s probably a strained comparison, but Milo has already had a longer run of fame than ADC.

*A lame, one-note, flash-in-the-pan, 1980s American comedian. His one note was foul-mouthed misogyny.

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