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doggoes kitties open thread

Merry Christmas, if you’re into that sort of thing!

Hope you all are having a lovely day today, whatever this day means to you (or doesn’t). Consider this an open thread, to discuss whatever, from presents to politics to cats to whatever holiday stress you might be feeling.

And here’s some stuff I found on the Twitter.

— David, who is hanging in there

https://twitter.com/awwcuteness/status/945193410662682624

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Dalillama
Dalillama
6 years ago

@shadowplay

unless Bengal cats actually come from Bengal, in which case the naming problem becomes moot

Sort of; the breed is descended from Amur Leopard Cats (which are from Bengal and much of the rest of South Asia), crossed with assorted domestic cats, mostly breeds originating nearby.

Skiriki
Skiriki
6 years ago

@Dalillama

My fave detail is how the leopard cats themselves used to be pets way before modern cat ancestors arrived to the area. Like awwwwwww!

mrex
mrex
6 years ago

RE:It’s only cultural appropiation if someone makes money.

It’s funny, but I’ve heard (white) people claim that it’s cultural appropiation when white people own dreamcatchers. I think it’s definately be cultural appropiation for white people to MAKE dreamcatchers to sell, or for white people to buy dreamcatchers from white artists, but to own one made from a Native American Artist, where no power or money was made by any white person?*

Methinks that at some point white people** start to sound a bit like Nazis when they start berating other whites for dipping their toes into any culture other than their own.

*Maybe power is always gained by the white person. Maybe this is the point.

**This is ONLY meant to be directed at white people, it’s obviously NOT relevent for minorities making arguments about cultural appropiation. And to that end, maybe owning a dreamcatcher from a Native American artist really is gross and otherwise disrespectful as those whites say it is.

Shadowplay
6 years ago

@Dali

Good to see you! 🙂

Sort of; the breed is descended from Amur Leopard Cats (which are from Bengal and much of the rest of South Asia), crossed with assorted domestic cats, mostly breeds originating nearby.

Thank you. 🙂

@Skiriki

Got a couple of old friends who have cheetahs as hunting companions. They’re really sweet natured if they like you. Not so nice if they decide they don’t though. One of them likes to sit on me when I visit – an honor I could do without! They’re much heavier than they look. 😛

Leopards are supposed to be the same sort of behaviour, just far stronger and heavier, and more unpredictable. 😛

Shadowplay
6 years ago

It’s funny, but I’ve heard (white) people claim that it’s cultural appropiation when white people own dreamcatchers.

Why do they own it?

Because it’s pretty (and some of them are very pretty)? Not appropriation.

Because it was a gift? Not appropriation.

Because they need it to catch dreams? Appropriation of the visible symbol of a complex cultural belief system for your own ends.

Because they collect ethnic art? Don’t care if it’s appropriation or not – if you’re categorising the art in your life more narrowly than “This speaks to my soul” you’re a wanker. 😛

Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
Axecalibur: Middle Name Danger
6 years ago

@Preux
Ayy! Welcome back *confetti*

in my opinion, it’s only really cultural appropriation if someone is making money on it anyways

I’d add social currency to financial. White people with cornrows aren’t selling anything, but they’re still gaining something in the social sphere that black folk with same hairstyle often don’t. Then you gotta take into account the stealth financials of it. White people can get away with things as ‘exotic’ or ‘trendy’ that, for brown folk, was always just ‘weird’ or ‘foreign’ or actively ‘ugly’. Becky is less likely to be fired from her job cos of her new box braids than Imani is. So, direct exchange of money, IMO, is too narrow a lens

@mrex

at some point white people** start to sound a bit like Nazis when they start berating other whites for dipping their toes into any culture other than their own

No. It’s not antimiscegenation, it’s them knowing how this often goes down. Do white people sometimes oversympathize with the plight of minorities? Absolutely. Not gonna weigh in on the subject of dreamcatchers (not NDN, know too little about the cultural trappings/significance), but, frex, I don’t care if white people rap. But if white people give Eminem the side eye on my behalf, I’ll think them missing the forest for the trees, but not comparable to nazis. There are literal fuckin nazis in control of the gov right now, let’s keep that designation aimed at those fuckers and their sycophants

Maybe power is always gained by the white person. Maybe this is the point

Fuckin kinda

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
6 years ago

The most racist pet name is in The Rats in the Walls by H.P. Lovecraft. The main character has a black cat called N____

Almost any other pet name seems perfectly acceptable after that.

Anyway, given that a lot of indigenous artists need to and want to sell their work to make a living, I don’t see how merely purchasing something is appropriation. Although if you are going to buy Native art or fashion, do your research and make sure it’s legit. If you’re in the US or Canada, check the website of your local tribe/s. It should have info on events in your area (like a pow wow or wacipi) where you should be able to find merchandise.

The appropriation, from my white person’s understanding anyway, comes in when someone makes/sells/wears a faux version of an item that has religious significance. Like a headdress. When a white person or company sells art that is passed off as Native but isn’t. When a company steals an indigenous artist’s work and sells it as it’s own, etc.

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
6 years ago

I owned dreamcatcher when I am 18 because I bought it at the small shop and I didn’t know about what it means. when I found out it is disrespectful I gave it away. I didn’t want it any more. I am ashamed I didnt know and I didn’t listen to my friend who told me it is racist. I can buy other things with wolfs which are not disrespectful or cultural appropriation. there is no reason to own such things from cultures which oppressed by white people when there plenty other beautiful things

when I visited some counties in my job people give me given me gifts. daughter of my captain who is from Myanmar on one ship, gave me jade cross necklace and little frame with woman made from colour sand inside. picture of kneeling Myanmar woman. I kept this because it is gift from Myanmar person to me and she chosen it to represent her country.

and I agree with Axe, how can white people who tell other white people to respect other cultures be like nazis? this is opposite! and I think it is very important white people tell each other if they done something disrespectful. it is very hard for POC to always be teacher for white people – it is upsetting and tiring. we should teach eachother. this is how to be ‘ally’ ?

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
6 years ago

Happy Shutdown Day, American friends. My sympathies and may it be brief – there are far too many people depending on those services who are entirely undeserving of this punishment. I hope the Democrats keeps their spines, and don’t buckle under Republican pressure on CHIP and DACA.

On appropriation, I find that the best way to avoid appropriation is to seek out perspectives of those who are the holders of that legacy, and then to shut up and listen when they talk. If you don’t know anyone who qualifies, then it’s important to find someone, because you don’t know enough about the appropriation risk to be able to judge yourself.

I try to avoid the word “appropriation”, too. Not that it’s a bad one, but it carries a lot of extra cultural significance. I just try to recognize that my understanding of things from outside of my culture are always viewed through the distorted lens of colonialism and hegemony, and that I can’t escape that without a lot of work.

Twitter is great for this. There are a million voices. It’s a great way to practice your listening skills. Let them shape you.

Happy weekend, all

mrex
mrex
6 years ago

@Axe

“There are literal fuckin nazis in control of the gov right now, let’s keep that designation aimed at those fuckers and their sycophants”

Point taken. I did take that too far.

Sometimes it just feels off; like deep-down, for these white people it is about seperating cultures/races. But maybe I’m reacting to something in myself, rather than in them.

“I don’t care if white people rap. But if white people give Eminem the side eye on my behalf, I’ll think them missing the forest for the trees, but not comparable to nazis.”

Yeah. Seems kinda off, like they’re trying to speak over you, or frame the discussion, out of sympathy or whatever. But certainly not Nazis.

Thanks for making me think. I stand corrected!

Shadowplay
6 years ago

OK, prev post went into moderation – probably for the link, so mangling the link

Reuters has a livestream of the DC Womans March if anyone hasn’t found their own yet.

http__s://www.reuters.__tv/l/fbI/2018/01/20/women-s-march-in-washington-d-c

take out both __

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite
Brony, Social Justice Cenobite
6 years ago

I feel positive about my contribution to dealing with the very concerned swarm. As a person who also sees too much of himself in Ansari from past experience I can at least now put some more objective names to my dispositions and choices. I am doing the “gatekeeper” thing and it’s a matter of creating a space for people to communicate about their experiences. In form I did a “stare down” over the general issue of gossipers* trying to prevent discussion about Grace’s experiences. They dress it up as just asking questions (and other things), but when there’s a group of them and they leave out any means of identifying the cause of their very repetitive concerns I just see the gossip.

With respect to fear and writing I’m now thinking about how my methods and goals have changed in my confrontations. Some of it is harder and fuzzier than I expected. I’m not sure how much I should let myself enjoy beyond learning to help.

*I spoon fed “gossip” via hammering their resistance to quoting anything wrong with Grace’s words or other communication. In another example someone was outraged at the general idea of “rapist talk”, but wouldn’t qoute one snip of it. I’m sure they felt a lot if negative about me but I do try to shape it some. That’s a skill in progress.

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite
Brony, Social Justice Cenobite
6 years ago

@Scildfreja
I want to apologise about my lack of follow up with set theory. I was not expecting how complicated things would get for me and I’m one of the people that got math forced into them. It’s been difficult and wanted to let you know that I do appreciate what you posted and I still have it in my folio.

mrex
mrex
6 years ago

@Brony

“I spoon fed “gossip” via hammering their resistance to quoting anything wrong with Grace’s words or other communication. In another example someone was outraged at the general idea of “rapist talk”, but wouldn’t qoute one snip of it.”

What’s “rapist talk”?

kupo
kupo
6 years ago

@Brony
I want to say thanks for the work you’re doing over on Pharyngula against the rape-apologist trolls. It’s gotten to be too much for me and I appreciate that people are still fighting back.

As for me, I marched today. It was a big crowd in Seattle. Looked smaller than last year’s march but bigger than the March for Science.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee
6 years ago

US figure skater and soon to be Olympian Adam Rippon dragged Mike Pence for his homophobia upon hearing he’d be leading the US delegation at the Olympics.

Pence called him a liar.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/christinebrennan/2018/01/17/gay-olympian-adam-rippon-blasts-selection-mike-pence-lead-u-s-delegation/1040610001/

Adam brought the receipts

https://twitter.com/Adaripp/status/954744691882311686

Both he and skier Lindsay Vonn have said they will not be attending post Olympic celebrations at the WH with Trump. So I expect them both to come under attack by Trump and his fans any time now.

Adam Rippon is hilarious and awesome BTW. When asked what it was like to be a gay athlete he said it was the same as being a straight athlete but with better eyebrows. A few days ago some concern troll tweeted him to whine about mean it was to say straight people have bad eyebrows. His response?

To be fair the tone you’re taking with me sounds like your brows might not be great

Since his response to trolls is to mock the shit out of them, I wish he’d come hang out with us here. He’d fit right in.

Ariblester
Ariblester
6 years ago

@skiriki

Re: “Alamak” as a name

In an interesting coincidence, “alamak” is an exclamation of surprise in the Malay language. Its exact etymology is unclear, but it may derive from the words “Allah” (meaning, well, “Allah”) and “mak” (meaning “mother”).

(Okay, maybe it’s not so much of a coincidence, as both words also have cognates in Arabic, and the Malay Archipelago was converted mostly to Islam in IIRC the 12th Century.)

So people may think that you’re calling your kitten “Mother of God!” ?

Rahu
Rahu
6 years ago

@Valentin –

I was being very sarcastic. No, I don’t think the Star Wars remake without showing any woman doing anything strong or good, is a good thing.

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
6 years ago

rahu

sorry sometimes it is difficult to understand when it is only text.

Skiriki
Skiriki
6 years ago

@Ariblester

LOL

To be honest, that would be very much the correct expression or close enough for that horrible moment when I saw the kitty tail and hindlegs peeking out of Carisma’s bum.

Alamak’s original explanation goes like “The name is originally from Arabic العناق الأرض al-‘anāq al-’arđ̧, “the caracal” (desert lynx).”

Lensman
Lensman
6 years ago

Uhm… I am seriously worried. The blog hasn’t seen an update in over 20 days. Is Mr Futrelle all right? Does anybody here keep in touch with him? Can somebody check on him, if he is in good health?

Shadowplay
6 years ago

@Lensman – he’s functional, at least. His twitter is still in use from time to time, and you can’t schedule retweets with comments.

Good health, I can’t say. Just hope.

Shadowplay
6 years ago

TIL that rare digital art exists, thanks to an auction of Rare Pepes.

Seriously, rare digital art? How the hell can something that can be copied instantly and perfectly even rate the word rare? At most, I’ll buy the descriptor arbitrarily and artificially scarce.

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
6 years ago

Thank you, Shadowplay. Much appreciated (not being on twitter, so not readily able to see directly). Joining you in all best hopes and wishes for David to feel better.

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite
Brony, Social Justice Cenobite
6 years ago

@mrex
“Rapist talk” in this context is the minimizing/redirecting from/ignoring/replacement of of Grace’s feelings about the boundary violations by the very concerned swarm. There were quite a few places where the swarm had similar behavior as Ansari They didn’t like seeing the comparison, and we’re incapable of functionally dealing with it. I suspect some of the people like this go on to say things like accusations of racism/sexism/misogyny constitute “shutting down” arguments but am looking for more solid evidence of that sort of after the fact rationalization.

If you want it and have the stomach for it…
This is the post where “rapist talk” was mentioned, and here is where someone acted outraged about it.

@kupo
Thank you. I wouldn’t want you to have to go back but if you ever think my motivation or methods are a problem in another example please let me know. My wife mentioned I sounded self-aggrandizing about it and I’m distrustful of myself.

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