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Happy Thanksgiving and/or Thursday! Open Thread

Happy Thanksgiving, to everyone who celebrates it! And a very merry Thursday to everyone who doesn’t.

Because I haven’t provided a health update in a while (outside of the comments) I just wanted to reassure everyone that I am still here, and still trying to sort through a bunch of medical issues with the help of assorted doctors, some very competent and others not so much.

The issues I’m facing aren’t lifethreatening, but they are still debilitating enough to keep me from regular posting here. Sorry to be so vague; I’ll offer more details once some of these issues are sorted out a bit more. I’ll return to posting as soon as I am able but I cannot predict when that will be.

I appreciate everyone’s patience and continued support. Thanks!

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Katamount (formerly Gussie Jives)
Katamount (formerly Gussie Jives)
3 years ago

I had a feeling Sam would be back. As Michael Brooks noted on his podcast, the only one jumping for joy on Sam’s firing was David Effing Duke. Not even Paul Joseph “Soy Boy” Watson was in favour of this.

I hope whatever bonehead made that call is out on their ass. Preferably Andy Lack.

Katamount (formerly Gussie Jives)
Katamount (formerly Gussie Jives)
3 years ago

Just on the topic of hockey, I found this interesting article about body checking in women’s hockey: https://medium.com/@michabennett/let-girls-be-girls-why-body-checking-needs-to-be-allowed-in-women-s-hockey-5adaa6d896ae

I was always under the (apparently mistaken) impression that lack of body checking in the women’s game actually resulted in fewer injuries and was of the opinion that the men’s leagues would be better off without it, but if the game’s actually safer with body checking, then I think it should be reconsidered.

This article notes that it shouldn’t be done now because the North American teams will just walk all over the European teams which aren’t at that level yet: https://thehockeywriters.com/hitting-in-womens-hockey-why-not/

Which is absolutely true… every women’s hockey medal match being between Canada and the US gets tiresome. It’s always just a back and forth.

As an aside, I’m also going to bellyache about how annoying it is to see the Toronto Furies when they play out of the stupid MasterCard Centre in Etobicoke. Nobody actually likes Etobicoke, not even my mom’s family who lived there for decades! The lack of transit access makes it particularly difficult for those of us without cars and given there’s still a rink at Maple Leaf Gardens run by Ryerson University, might give the Furies a more prominent profile in the city.

The Furies’ crap logo doesn’t help.

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They need to follow Calgary’s cue; now that logo is badass:

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Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
3 years ago

@ wwth

re: abars “smug-itude”, thank you!

We now have one of the 3 superpowers run by a self-serving bigot with an ego only stoked by pandering to those who worship inequality and want war. “Smug” would not be my reaction no matter where I lived.

E.T.A.; reality check, actually we now have TWO of 3 superpowers run by self-serving bigots with egos only stoked by pandering to those who worship inequality and want war.

E.T.A. again…
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Go, Arachnids (played one season, then folded…. 🙁 )

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
3 years ago

replaced by…

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Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

@Weird (thumper of trumpanzees) Eddie
O for Obama
B for George W Bush
D for Democrats.

I have an extreme dislike for both parties over abuse of authority and abuse of power issues. I’ve not been in a political party since college. Since the R candidates tend to be worse I tend to vote D as a practical matter. But I take opportunities to remind them how the party culture actively ignored the torture issue. According to our treaty obligations Obama and GW Bush both belong in prison.

I also hate both parties over the treatment of whistle blowers, data and privacy, actively ignoring police abuses of authority in multiple ways. But honestly national and local politics is only one place where I hate American society.

PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Perpetually Ignored, Invisible but Noice) Sarcastic
3 years ago

Cernovich is having kittens about The Intercept right now.

“The Intercept is getting a SOURCE SENT TO PRISON.

It’s cuz your “journalists” are trash @ggreenwald, and make up lies about me being “white supremacist.”

But whatever I am, I am not a snitch, unlike everyone at your entire operation.”

https://t.co/XVSyonObys https://t.co/qxGyc3kJbl

Via Twitter

The lad doesn’t like it when his machinations don’t work out. Oops.

Moggie
Moggie
3 years ago

School shooting in New Mexico. Three dead, fifteen hurt. Perhaps the last mass shooting of the year, but don’t bet on it.

Katamount (formerly Gussie Jives)
Katamount (formerly Gussie Jives)
3 years ago

@Weird Eddie

Need moar spider-based hockey teams. 😀

Ohhhhhh… god, I just learned about this (TW: suicide):

http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/porn-star-august-ames-dies-after-backlash-to-controversial-tweet/news-story/02f6071201d946c52c18372401a4239b

This… this is just tragedy all around. I’ll admit, I do consume adult entertainment regularly and I was a fan of Ames’ work, particularly as a Canadian in a field dominated by Americans and Eastern Europeans. But this whole situation is just layer upon layer of awful. To sum up, basically she made a homophobic generalization on Twitter about male actors that have done gay porn to rationalize not working with one particular actor, then was set upon by a lot of other actors, both male and female (some of the tweets are in the above article, and they’re pretty rough). Ames refused to retract the statement, leaving a final defiant tweet before hanging herself.

Fuck, this is exactly my fear about social media pile-ons. Despite Ames’ ignorance on LGBT matters, she didn’t deserve to be bullied by the fanbases of a lot of these popular performers. Reports indicate that she suffered from depression and I have to imagine that there was something else going on in her life that this pile-on would have exacerbated.

Evidently, the alt-right are already crafting their narrative that SJW bullies killed Ames. It doesn’t help that the performers who were bullying her remain unapologetic for their rather heartless words, some of whom I’m also fans of.

God… this is all so messed up. Definitely going to need time to process this in my head.

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

@Katamount (formerly Gussie Jives)
This might be a good time to mention one of my other ethical concerns when it comes to political language. The implications of what the category “mental illness” is suggest changes to how we think about it. I have a few things that I’ve been wrestling with that you might find useful or not.

Our social problems come in pieces and these pieces can be used in strategy. This starts out to describe the problem but then I point out advantages.

1) The category contains phenomena that are both normal/natural brain responses (species “feature”), and damage caused by injury, chemical or infection (species “bug”). Overwhelmingly society does not separate those.
Similarly things like ADHD, Autism, Tourette’s Syndrome and BPD are fully normal/natural parts of what we are. You can inherit them and predispositions to them (seems to be epignentic and related to parent environment). There is evidence that Autism has been positively selected for in the human genome.
In my opinion people need to be be familiar with these individually and be willing to think of them as “kinds of human beings” that appear in each of our family lines. We are using social disgust on ourselves as a group and it’s getting in the way of figuring out what we are for our benefit.

2) Society uses “mental illness” and specific “mental illnesses” as literal behavioral “scapegoats” in social manipulation (there is good news later). I’m pretty sure everyone here has seen these patterns so I feel comfortable asserting them and an underlying social tool to recognize and gain control of.
*”Mental illness” and accusers of rape/sexual assault/harassment.
*”Mental illness” and mass shooters.
*”Mental illness” and the LGBT+ community.
This is to avoid facing behavior.

3) There are inherent vulnerabilities in the social tool. I think there is a fundamental inability (unconscious) or unwilingness (conscious) to provide evidence in the form of a diagnostic criteria and associated behavior of the person. This is a social pressure point.

4) I’m predicting each of these “conditions” (to attempt a most-neutral word) will be there for a beneficial reason, but how society applies feelings to these is very often irrational and selective for what looks like political reasons. Some feel bad because of their nature. Some feel bad for people that don’t know what they are, how they help, or how you need to organize your life to use them.

5)What a person does while mentally ill matters and is no excuse. If it’s “normal”, harm matters. It can be an explanation that helps the person and/or other people.

I know that’s a lot but I hope it helps.

Buttercup Q. Skullpants
Buttercup Q. Skullpants
3 years ago

Nthing Weird Eddie and WWTH. This period of history is no time to be smug. There’s nowhere on the planet that will be safe from creeping fascism, environmental degradation, war, and climate change over the next few decades, particularly when you have ultra-billionaire disaster capitalists actively encouraging these situations because of the profits they reap from human suffering. As the planet gets more crowded, these crises will only become more pervasive. It wasn’t too long ago that people in the US were in the same smug position of thinking “Fascism can’t happen here, we’re protected by our oceans,” as if fascism was an external threat. That type of arrogant blindness is exactly what got us here. The US rotted from within, same as countless empires before it. It won’t be the last, and it’s naive to think Australia or any other country is immune.

On the topic of hockey, I’d rather play it than watch it. It’s hard to follow the puck on TV. I do have a fuzzy memory of playing “Pin the Band-Aid on Bobby Orr’s Knee” at some kid’s birthday party, way back when.

Jenora Feuer
Jenora Feuer
3 years ago

@Katamount:

Which is absolutely true… every women’s hockey medal match being between Canada and the US gets tiresome. It’s always just a back and forth.

Well, the Turin/Torino Olympics wasn’t that, mostly because Sweden defeated the U.S. in a shootout in the semi-finals. Both Canada and the U.S. completely dominated the game in the Gold and Bronze finals, admittedly.

Honestly, that year at least, the women’s hockey tournament was far more interesting than the men’s. And that’s that’s even including that the first game of the women’s hockey matches ended with a 16-0 score because the Italian team probably wouldn’t have even qualified if they weren’t the hosting country…

abars01
abars01
3 years ago

@Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy, weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee and Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie

I never said that Australia was perfect! I’m aware of Manus Island and Pauline Hanson and Yiannopoulos’ visit and so on. But I really don’t think anything that’s happened in Australia recently (or, for that matter, any other industrialized western country recently) compares in awfulness with the likes of, say, the Charlottesville rally or the tax bill or the Muslim ban. Manus Island, Hanson and Yiannopoulos aren’t kicking 13 million people off healthcare. I think the US represents the nadir of the far-right resurgence right now, and has dropped well and truly beneath the basic standard that should be expected of the Anglosphere in the present day.

Katamount (formerly Gussie Jives)
Katamount (formerly Gussie Jives)
3 years ago

Honestly, that year at least, the women’s hockey tournament was far more interesting than the men’s.

Yeah, especially when the Canadian men got shut down by Martin frickin’ Gerber of all people.

All due credit to Gerber for a shut-down performance, but he didn’t make any friends in my circles when he came to Toronto, I’ll say that….

Sheila Crosby
3 years ago

You know, I think it’s probably time I forgave ice hockey for the behaviour of three ice hockey players who lived next door to me about 30 years ago. Next door in a row of terrace houses, so they were the other side of my bedroom wall. They used to have very loud parties until maybe 5 am, and I had to get up at 6:30 am. We went round to politely ask them pretty please to turn it down. The next night they arrived at 11 pm yelling, “WEE-HEE LET’S GET THE NEIGHBOURS ROUND!” and managed to slam the doors of one car 8 times. It went on like that for months. When the police went around the music would turn down for half an hour or less then resume at FULL VOLUME. Their landlord wouldn’t do anything meaningful. (He regretted that after they trashed the place playing indoor hockey on their last night.) The town hall wouldn’t do anything either. I was so sleep deprived that I considered suicide.
But yes, perhaps I should forgive the sport for the behaviour of three people. But I still hope they eventually had colicky triplets and stepped on all the legos.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

But I really don’t think anything that’s happened in Australia recently (or, for that matter, any other industrialized western country recently) compares in awfulness with the likes of, say, the Charlottesville rally or the tax bill or the Muslim ban.

You don’t think the murder of Jo Cox compares with the murder of Heather Heyer at the Charlottesville rally? You don’t think the brutal austerity that happened in the wake of the recession in several countries in Europe compares to the tax bill? I’m not sure if there’s anything like the travel ban in other countries, but there’s been a lot of anti-refugee sentiment in Europe and Australia and US immigration policy has long been generous compared to most countries. That’s not to excuse the deplorable treatment of immigrants so far in the Trump administration, but something to keep in mind when anyone is tempted to believe that the US is the most xenophobic country.

Manus Island, Hanson and Yiannopoulos aren’t kicking 13 million people off healthcare. I think the US represents the nadir of the far-right resurgence right now, and has dropped well and truly beneath the basic standard that should be expected of the Anglosphere in the present day.

Right now as in the past year or two? Sure. Again, can you really be so sure that Australia or any other country won’t join the race to the bottom? Need I remind you that one of the factors in Trump’s win was that a lot of people (myself included, I’ll admit) didn’t believe he could win. A lot of other people thought a Hillary Clinton presidency wouldn’t look all that different from a Trump presidency so who cares who wins because all politicians suck? You won’t do yourself any favors by being complacent.

If you read the comments here, you know that nationalist sentiment is not really a thing around here. You don’t have to convince anybody that things are massively shitty in the US right now. I take issue with the comment about how you’re all smug. Something that you really failed to address in your reply. It sounds like you’re happy that bad things such as being kicked off of healthcare will happen to Americans. Despite the fact that the people here who will be hurt the worse are the people who opposed Trump and despite the fact that many of the regular posters here are among the people who could be hurt. Your boasting is a bit of a slap in the face to a lot of people here.

I also still think it’s weird that legalizing same sex marriage is the source of the smugness when Australia has lagged behind a lot of countries including the US on this issue. The list of countries according to Wikipedia that have legalized same sex marriage are as follows

As of 8 December 2017, same-sex marriage is legally recognized (nationwide or in some parts) in the following countries: Argentina, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Colombia, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Ireland, Luxembourg, Malta, Mexico,the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, the United Kingdom, the United States and Uruguay. The law in Australia is not yet in force. It is also likely to soon become legal in Taiwan and Austria, after court rulings on the subject in May and December 2017 respectively.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s great. But you’re not leading the first world here, you’re joining it. Finally.

abars01
abars01
3 years ago

@weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Re. Jo Cox, austerity, anti-refugee sentiment, etc.
I agree that all of the above are bad, as Manus, Hanson and Yiannopoulos’ visit are, but I still maintain that the tax bill trumps (no pun intended) everything else thus far.

Re. Australia joining the race to the bottom.
I, personally, believe that Trump and Brexit have largely put the breaks on the rise of the far-right in North America, Oceania and Western Europe (if not Eastern Europe, however). I believe they’ve shocked the left out of complacency, hence why, for example, turnout for the gay marriage postal plebiscite was so high.

Re. the smugness.
My smugness is really more directed against those irritating American chauvinist types who continue to insist that America is the “greatest country in the world”, etc., even as its citizens are forced to call their representatives every few months and beg them not to take their healthcare away. I certainly recognize that there are many liberals and many POC in America who did not vote for Trump, are resisting his agenda desperately, and are poised to suffer as a result of his and the GOP’s shtick. Far from condescending to such people, I feel sorry for them, and wish, intently, that they did not have no choice but to live under such madness.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Re. Australia joining the race to the bottom.
I, personally, believe that Trump and Brexit have largely put the breaks on the rise of the far-right in North America, Oceania and Western Europe (if not Eastern Europe, however). I believe they’ve shocked the left out of complacency, hence why, for example, turnout for the gay marriage postal plebiscite was so high.

Don’t be so sure. Despite the hatred for George W Bush everywhere else in the world, the resurgence of fascism started in Europe. The left in the US is not complacent at the moment, but if Europeans, Australians, and Canadians lull themselves into thinking their countries are progressive because at least they don’t have Trump, it’ll only take another recession to make a whole new batch of people go full Nazi right under your noses. Being anti-Trump or anti-American will not stop fascists at home.

My smugness is really more directed against those irritating American chauvinist types who continue to insist that America is the “greatest country in the world”, etc.,

Since American nationalists don’t post here except occasionally to troll, you’re not directing your smugness at them, you’re directing it at us. I think you know that because you did the “sorry if I’m about to annoy people but…” thing. You knew it was going to be received as reveling in our pain and you did it anyway. Why?

If you want to address “patriotic” right wingers, go do it where they actually are. Try Breitbart or Fox News. Or the Twitter account of any Republican pundit. Have fun!

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
3 years ago

I will just say about smugness. Ukraine only just make it so domestic abuse is illegal and also force marriage. please don’t make this into games. each country try with what is there. we must celebrate each victory – even if it is small. but don’t compare just so you will feel good for something which is accidental. you don’t chose your contry.

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Ukraine can feel smug because you have Lilia Podkopayeva though.

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That toe point! And who else can make a crushed velvet leo look good?

Hu's On First
Hu's On First
3 years ago

Anyone here ever heard of The Family International? It’s a cult founded in the 70s with extremely bizarre and at times disturbing beliefs. Here’s a few that are particularly original:

The Hong Kong Goolagong, an Australian Aboriginal boob demon.

This should win an award for worst poem ever.

This song, on the other hand, is actually not so bad.

There’s a lot of other material available on this cult. It reminds me of a train wreck in that it’s very disturbing but also oddly fascinating. The Phoenix siblings were raised in this group. A big TW, though: founder David Berg was a pedophile as were a lot of his followers, who carried the 60s ideal of “free love” to an extreme. Like Charles Manson, Berg personifies the toxic side of the whole 60s counterculture. He even expressed proto-MRA sentiments like in this essay where he accuses Satan, society, and mainstream churches of demonizing male sexuality.

Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
Mish of the Catlady Ascendancy
3 years ago

@Valya,

Well said. I’m just happy that marriage equality has been achieved. Full stop. No comparing, either ‘upwards’ or ‘downwards’.

I get the irritation at certain USians who do the whole “light on the hill” thing – but as WWTH said, they’re not here. Plus, the USians who are here are friends (well, that’s how I think of you all, anyway).

*Severe cliche alert* we’re in this shite together. No one should feel very smug right now, and we can’t risk complacency.
Except, as I said t’other day, maybe New Zealanders. They can be smug 😛
(jk, just to be absolutely clear)

JS
JS
3 years ago

Norfolk Island Pine.
Silver Tree Fern.
GLOW WORMS.

27.6 million sheep.
4.69 million people.

You really don’t want the sheep to be woke in NZ. It’d be a shearing disaster.

Nothing is Permanent But Woe
Nothing is Permanent But Woe
3 years ago

@JS

Wasn’t that the plot of ‘Black Sheep’? Which was mildly amusing.

@Weird Eddie

I really like that spider logo, I’d have had a tattoo of that. Which leads me on to the question, how many people GOT tattoos before the switch to another logo, and how pissed off were they?

@Valentin

Been meaning to ask – I found out about the Odessa catacombs recently – they look frickin’ amazing – have you ever had a chance to have a look around inside them, or any similar underground cities? Ukrainian urbexers should feel smug!

abars01
abars01
3 years ago

@ Everyone

Folks, my intention, ultimately, was simply to praise Australia for a major progressive victory and lambast the US for all the major regressive victories occurring there. It was never my intention to offend anyone here. But if I went about this the wrong way, and did offend anyone here, then I am sorry.

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
3 years ago

@wwth

she looks very good but I think she must be retired now. she has 3 Olympic medals though!

@mish
I agree, New Zealand is amazing! maybe they can’t be smug but surely they can be super happy to live there. if I could chose any country in which to live it would be New Zealand

@nothing is permanent but woe

no I didn’t go inside them before so i don’t know if they are good – but any chance you have to go to Ukraine you should go, it is important people see there is more than just post Soviet country and war with Russia.

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
3 years ago
Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
3 years ago

@ nothing is permanent

You ever been under Nottingham? Lots of fun catacomb type things there. Some interesting things under Portland too.

Katamount (formerly Gussie Jives)
Katamount (formerly Gussie Jives)
3 years ago

@Sheila

Sounds like you lived next to Patrick Kane on one side and Evander Kane on the other. What is it with unrelated Kanes and behavioural problems…? 😛

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
3 years ago

“I think it was great at the time when families were united. Even though we had slavery, they cared for one another…Our families were strong, our country had a direction.”

Roy Moore, asked at a campaign rally when America had last been great

wow… just… wow….

Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Agent of the FemiNest Collective; Keeper of a Hell Toupee, and all-around Intergalactic Meanie
Redsilkphoenix: Jetpack Vixen, Agent of the FemiNest Collective; Keeper of a Hell Toupee, and all-around Intergalactic Meanie
3 years ago

@Valentin,

Odd that Masha’s family isn’t said to have at least filed a missing person’s report over her disappearance. That could’ve been proof she actually existed rather than just being an urban legend. On the other hand, that story probably serves the purpose of warning unprepared people to stay out of those catacombs or else die alone.

Then again, I’d think a few sets of iron bars across some of those entrances would work better than a scary story to keep the unprepared curious out better. Especially if there’s an urban area close by an entrance.

Any ghost stories associated with those catacombs you know of? You’d think there’d be a few, given what is known about them already….

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
3 years ago

+1ing the value of safety rails etc. over scary stories.

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
3 years ago

@redsilkpheonix

well I know people found bodies in there before. they found body of dead girl, but this body they did not extract. I don’t know if it is masha but possibly this is part of this story.

if you want to learn more you can visit museam of partisan glory.

http://catacombs.od.ua/articles/museum.html

Sorry this is not on English but maybe your web browser can translate. I think they take people on excursions underground but it is only very very small part of total area.

Nothing is Permanent But Woe
Nothing is Permanent But Woe
3 years ago

@Valentin

I’ve heard that story , though I haven’t seen the photo before (it’s pretty grim, I’ll give it that). Nonetheless, I’d like a look, and if I ever do get over there, I’ll get some local guides and a large of carbide for the lamp. The bit that worried me the most was the roof collapse – sandstone is horrible for that kind of thing (give me a nice flood anyday).

@Alan

Love the Nottingham ones. Doing a caving pub crawl is good fun, but there’s the big railway tunnel, the catacombs from Rock Cemetary, Rouse’s Sand Mine and plenty more. Haven’t done anything down Dorset way for a long time, but if you’re referring to the Forbidden City, I hear it’s good.

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
3 years ago

@woe

where they take tourists on excursions is quite safe so there is no danger there. but personally any catacombs is not where I would go. I like caves and mines but I hear plenty of bad things about every kind of catacombs under any city – more than about caves or mines.

Nothing is Permanent But Woe
Nothing is Permanent But Woe
3 years ago

@Valentin

Some are safer than others – to a large extent it depends what they were dug for, and what the rock type is . I dislike sandstone because it’s unpredictable – it tends to flake off the walls in sheets; there was a horrible case in the UK where some scouts were camping in an old hermitage, lit a fire (which caused the rock to expand) and the ceiling peeled off and fell on them. Grim. But near my house is Middleton Mine, which has 25 miles of massive passages in limestone – if I could get past the security, I would feel very happy camping down here for a few weeks.

https://www.28dayslater.co.uk/middleton-mine-derbyshire-03-10.t48710

I’ve got very into drains the last couple of years – stalking about in some hidden river under a city is always good fun. That said, I read in the paper yesterday about a man whose house is going to be demolished because the cellar has fallen into the culvert below. I’d watch out for that…

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
3 years ago

@@woe

my parents both geolgostis so they taken me to many places. we played in sandstone mines or caves I don’t remember if it part natural and then ancient people dug more for iron ore etc. I enjoy being underground and I will go if I am with my parents and they familiar or with the guide.

my problem I say is more with urban exploration – because this is inexperienced people who go in places without the map and no one know where they go so no chance to be rescued. I know there are professionals – but because this is illegal too – risks are very high and truly you will be alone.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
3 years ago

cellar has fallen into the culvert below. I’d watch out for that…

Pittsburg/Crawford County, Ks. has a maze of underground coal mines beneath the area, left over from the early 1800s, first white encroachment into the area. They were never documented or mapped, and they’re mostly fairly near the surface… consequently there’s a real danger of being half-way through the construction of some structure and having it fall into the ground!

In the mid-2000s, I had a 2-year contract job down there, and I rented a shabby (no, really, VERY shabby) apartment and stayed Mon-Thurs, then went home on the weekend. The apartment had a 4″ “step” mid-way across the front room where the building was sinking on one end… now, that half of the building is gone!

There’s a “Coal Miner’s Memorial downtown, and the story goes (rumor, this was before my time there), there was an office building being constructed there, and one morning the workers came to work and half the building had collapsed into an unmarked mine shaft!

Another danger is people partying in the old mines and getting lost!

Nothing is Permanent But Woe
Nothing is Permanent But Woe
3 years ago

@Valentin

Can’t argue with that – there are some right numpties underground. I once had to escort someone out of a cave in the Peak District who had gone in by the light from their mobile phone, and then got lost.
Generally the urbex websites tend to keep details about things like entrances or exact locations pretty light – if people can’t be bothered to do their own research, then they shouldn’t be going into these sorts of places at all. Not to say accidents won’t happen, but in 25 years I’ve only ever had to BE rescued once (and that was from a natural, accessible cave), though I’ve self-rescued plenty of times.

As for illegal… Well, I think that depends. It’s perhaps, usually, the least of my concerns. Sometimes it’s even part of the fun!

Nothing is Permanent But Woe
Nothing is Permanent But Woe
3 years ago

@Weird

I tend to steer clear of coal mines, because of gas, and round here they’ve usually been sealed anyway. For any UK readers or anyone visiting the Midlands, Apedale Drift Mine is really interesting. I had several student digs in Stoke-on-Trent which were sagging into the mines underneath.

https://www.apedale.co.uk/

Nothing is Permanent But Woe
Nothing is Permanent But Woe
3 years ago

Hurrah! It’s the weekend! 4.00pm in Derby. And it’s snowing, so I’m going home. Best wishes to all, and I hope David is doing okay as well.

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
3 years ago

@@woe

I don’t mean to say you are inexperienced. only when I think about catacombs – first thing I think is teenagers looks for thrills and mysteries or somewhere to smoke weed and get drunk and then they take risks and get hurt or lost

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

I think Roy Moore meant that America was great because we had slavery, not in spite of it. Pretty obvious dogwhistle to remind white voters that their racism should be a more important priority than his child molesting ways when they choose who to vote for.

Ick, ick, ick.

Brony, Social Justice Cenobite

@Katamount
I was thinking about my last response to you and I was wondering if I was focused on the wrong thing. More social support of anti-bully messages would be a very good thing. I get hyperfocused on the wrong thing sometimes.

I think of this in terms of identifying the threatening social structure that needs some attention. Unless I’m mistaken that’s one person being swarmed beyond their ability to process and respond to. I would be good to for society to think about how we communicate in groups and what people’s tolerances are.

And, it does seem to be an instance where SJW is accurate. How they did social justice activism was more important than what they were communicating. It’s sucks because technically people can be irrational and illogical and unwise and unrealistic when they act for socially good intent for reasons of social justice. Most of the time it’s whining about criticism in general. Perhaps it has value after all.

Moggie
Moggie
3 years ago

Best thing about that Roy Moore quote? It only seems to be getting some traction now, even though he said it back in September. That’s so 2017: the year in which a prominent Republican making pro-slavery remarks barely makes the news because, holy shit, everything else.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
3 years ago

I hope David is doing okay as well.

Unlikely. The intervals between successive top-level posts are lengthening, not shortening. The obvious implication is that his condition is getting worse. 🙁

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
3 years ago

the year in which a prominent Republican making pro-slavery remarks barely makes the news because, holy shit, everything else

… can I PLEEEEEEEEZE WAKE THE FUCK UP, NOW?!?!?

from Slate, the author is angry over Clueless White People….

opposablethumbs
opposablethumbs
3 years ago

I’m not on twitter so I wouldn’t know, but perhaps some avian mammotheers have seen if David is tweeting?

David, I hope you are as well as may be.

Shadowplay
Shadowplay
3 years ago

@opposablethumbs

Sidebar says he is – not nearly as much as when he’s feeling on form, but there’s a few retweets/comments per day.

Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
Valentin - Emigrantski Ragamuffin
3 years ago

for those who worry – David tweet something 7 hours ago.

Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
Weird (and tired of trumplings) Eddie
3 years ago

some info regarding ways to reach out to incarcerated people, send some love