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Happy Indictment Day! Open thread

Lock him up!

By David Futrelle

Three, three indictments in one! Three former Trump campaign officials are in the hot seat today. Former Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort is the big name on the list (along with his pal Rick Gates), for such fun things as conspiracy against the U.S. and money laundering. But even more intriguing is the GUILTY PLEA of relatively unknown Trump foreign policy adviser George Papadopoulos, whom Mueller has presumably flipped, who seems to have been doing some active COLLUDING WITH THE RUSSIANS.

So here’s an open thread to discuss the news and any other indictment fun that transpires today.

NOTE: Sorry to have gone missing for so long. I’m still dealing with a combo of health issues that have made it very difficult to work. Thanks again for your patience and support.

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PeeVee the (Tired of the Militant Plasticfaced) Sarcastic
PeeVee the (Tired of the Militant Plasticfaced) Sarcastic
7 years ago

I will (⇀︿⇀) the use of > instead of either blockquotes or quotation marks every time. To me, that’s a tell.

Isn’t ponce kind of the same as pimp? As in “living off of a woman’s labor” kind of thing?

ETA: Axe, AWESOME!!

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
7 years ago

@ fishy goat

Yeah, in the East End it gets used like that. I wonder if it originated with the idea that living off a woman’s earnings is unmanly somehow? I’m curious now, I’ll have to ask around.

ETA: @ peevee
Pimping is like a subset of general ponceing, but it’s a nicely abusive epithet here.

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
7 years ago

Erm, whether or not it has such connotations, is it really advisable to be shaming men when they aren’t the biggest breadwinner in their family?

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
7 years ago

@ surplus

Generally it would be inappropriate, but here there’s the element of exploitation or freeloading.

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
7 years ago

@Alan: I don’t think ‘Ponce’ as you’ve described it is the same thing, unless it is someone who is literally profiting off of women who are doing sex work. ‘Pimp’ is used in different ways, but ultimately it means ‘a man who has women who are selling themselves, and he takes pretty much all the profit’.

I also thought it had an effeminate slant to it, though! Maybe I was just understanding it wrong, in context.

@Axe: Your ring is lovely! Thanks for showing it! 😀

… Probably ninja’d like a million times re-ponce, should have refreshed the page. :S

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

From the Googling I did, it appears to have originally meant the employee of a prostitute. As opposed to the owner or employer of one like a pimp is. All the definitions I found indicate that it’s become a way to call a man effeminate or gay in a derisive way.

In other words, a ponce is subservient to a sex worker rather than dominating one which makes him not a “real” man.

Jesalin
Jesalin
7 years ago

@Axe

It looks great! Oh, the ring looks nice too.

Alan Robertshaw
Alan Robertshaw
7 years ago

That’s interesting. It’s certainly used now to express the idea that the guy is mooching off of the woman.

Apparently ‘punk’ was originally a term for prostitute. Any etymologists know anything about that one?

BritterSweet
7 years ago

OT: On his way to Asia, Trump is expected to be in Hawaii on the 3rd and 4th. Rallies are planned for both those days.

Thanks to Halloween being so recent, I got a pair of cartoon gloved hands and stitched them into the “Peace Among Worlds” position.

Any sign ideas? Something praising Obama, maybe?

dreemr
dreemr
7 years ago

“Punk”, from what I know, came from hobo language in the US, and meant an underage boy used (assaulted) sexually by an older man.

Victorious Parasol
Victorious Parasol
7 years ago

What a lovely ring, Ace!

BritterSweet
7 years ago

Also wanted to spread the word: today is the first day you can enroll for healthcare for 2018 if you use the ACA, deadline is December 15. I heard the advertisement budget for it was cut and the enrollment period shortened, so just sending this message out wherever I can.

dreemr
dreemr
7 years ago

Hey @Axe, very nice gift to yourself!

Seconding @BritterSweet, if you use the ACA today is the day to start signing up!

Pie
Pie
7 years ago

@Alan Robertshaw

ETA: maybe you could try to popularise it over in the US?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Ponce

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
7 years ago

Ace, gorgeous ring! The gold on black is very sharp. Are the words repeated twice, or is the back side blank? ᴬᶰᵈ ᶦˢ ᵗʰᵉʳᵉ ᵃ ˢᵉᶜʳᵉᵗ ᵐᵉˢˢᵃᵍᵉ ᶦᶰˢᶦᵈᵉ ᵗʰᵉ ᵇᵃᶰᵈ

Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
Scented Fucking Hard Chairs
7 years ago

“Ponce” is a really offensive homophobic slur here in Australia. I wasn’t even aware it had other meanings.

Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
Rhuu - apparently an illiterati
7 years ago

Posted about ACA on my facebook. Won’t reach however many million people the russian ads did, but it will reach a few.

Did not know that, SFHC, I guess I really won’t be using it then. Thanks for the info!

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Apparently the house of Trump is now officially divided. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/11/the-west-wing-trump-is-apoplectic-as-allies-fear-impeachment

Speaking to Steve Bannon on Tuesday, Trump blamed Jared Kushner for his role in decisions, specifically the firings of Mike Flynn and James Comey, that led to Mueller’s appointment, according to a source briefed on the call. When Roger Stone recently told Trump that Kushner was giving him bad political advice, Trump agreed, according to someone familiar with the conversation. “Jared is the worst political adviser in the White House in modern history,” Nunberg said. “I’m only saying publicly what everyone says behind the scenes at Fox News, in conservative media, and the Senate and Congress.” (The White House didn’t respond to a request for comment by deadline.)

Looks like Bannon is rearing his ugly head again too.

But these soft-power approaches are being criticized by Trump allies including Steve Bannon and Roger Stone, who both believe establishment Republicans are waiting for a chance to impeach Trump. “The establishment has proven time and time again they will fuck Trump over,” a Bannon ally told me.

In a series of phone calls with Trump on Monday and Tuesday, Bannon told the president to shake up the legal team by installing an aggressive lawyer above Cobb, according to two sources briefed on the call. Bannon has also discussed ways to pressure Congress to defund Mueller’s investigation or limit its scope. “Mueller shouldn’t be allowed to be a clean shot on goal,” a Bannon confidant told me. “He must be contested and checked. Right now he has unchecked power.”

Scildfreja Unnyðnes
Scildfreja Unnyðnes
7 years ago

Sigh

I didn’t realize that I needed to formalize my statements on that! Alright, Croosters, I’ll give you the CNF.

Statistically, the average woman who spends her early 20’s engaging in the same behaviour as the stereotypical fratboy will have to ensure those behaviours are kept private if she wants any hope of a meaningful career – or any hope at all of not being considered a sexual assault target of choice; i.e. she will be considered to have given implicit consent by men who do not have a strong understanding of consent. This is because a common assumption within society is that previous consent can be used in place of current consent, and promiscuous behaviour can be (incorrectly) construed as previous consent.

The “fratboy” behaviour of her youth may be used as an excuse to consider her an inappropriate or unsavoury individual later in life. This can result in being barred from promotion, considered untalented (or more properly ‘only good for one thing’), considered ‘dirty’. If she ends up being successful, there will be assumptions that used the promiscuous behaviour with which she was earlier associated.

This is a statistical conclusion, stemming from the observation that sexual promiscuity, a lack of respect for authority, and insufficient gestures of submission towards social authority figures are considered counter to the stereotype of feminine behaviour, and can be used as justification for later dismissal of the offending individual. This function of “find negative history, associate with current behaviour, dismiss individual” is central in the ongoing denigration of women in modern society.

There we are – a bit more formal. Note that the existence of a woman who had a promiscuous youth and has found success later on does not dismiss it, in the same way that the existence of women earning the same wages as men in some areas doesn’t dismiss the wage gap problem.

Now I have a question for you, @Croosters, since we’re being formal. Why did you think that the existence of a single woman who has bucked the above trend discredits what I said? I can only see a couple of reasons why:

1) because you think that women aren’t systemically punished for promiscuity?

2) because you think women can “overcome” that systemic punishment by hard work?

3) perhaps you misinterpreted what I was saying, or I said something unclearly?

4) Something else I don’t see?

You wanted me to be clear; I hope the above was a bit more specific. Let us know what you were intending to say by bringing up your successful friend – and congrats to her, too! Overcoming that sort of hurdle is not always easy.

calmdown
calmdown
7 years ago

Hello everyone, I hope this isn’t too off topic, but I need your help with something I’m working on and I wasn’t sure where to post it. I need some song recommendations. I’m trying to create a playlist of songs that are tongue in cheek mocking MRA talking points or making fun of toxic masculinity etc. However, I only know of a handful myself. Here’s one of my favorites:

Any suggestions would be very much appreciated. Thanks!

Nequam
Nequam
7 years ago

calmdown:

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Calmdown,

And not making fun of MRAs or toxic masculinity, but Cell Block Tango from Chicago probably sends MRAs into conniptions. Because of the misandry!

Moggie
Moggie
7 years ago

calmdown:

weirwoodtreehugger: chief manatee

Also, this one could function as a good smackdown of mansplaining

And one that might as well be directed at incels

Sorry not to have newer stuff. I’m old. But the 80’s and 90’s were peak girl group time, so whatever

Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
Surplus to Requirements, Observer of the Vast Blight-Wing Enstupidation
7 years ago

@David: I’m stuck with a stale cached view of your site. I can’t see any of the new comments made in the past 3 hours, even after hitting reload a couple times. Is there anything I can do at my end to fix this or is it up to my ISP?

(I expect not to be able to see this comment once I hit send, nor any response, so if there is something I need to do to unclog some pipe at my end, David will need to email the information to me.)

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