By David Futrelle
Three, three indictments in one! Three former Trump campaign officials are in the hot seat today. Former Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort is the big name on the list (along with his pal Rick Gates), for such fun things as conspiracy against the U.S. and money laundering. But even more intriguing is the GUILTY PLEA of relatively unknown Trump foreign policy adviser George Papadopoulos, whom Mueller has presumably flipped, who seems to have been doing some active COLLUDING WITH THE RUSSIANS.
So here’s an open thread to discuss the news and any other indictment fun that transpires today.
NOTE: Sorry to have gone missing for so long. I’m still dealing with a combo of health issues that have made it very difficult to work. Thanks again for your patience and support.
@Policy of Madness:
Depends on the group. (Not in that culture myself but have good friends who are, so I hear things.)
That said, BDSM culture, like many other subcultures, often has big problems with the Geek Social Fallacies. Even when there are rules, the rules can get bent because ‘He’s a friend, we wouldn’t want to throw him out over a little mistake like that’.
And that’s even before you get to the 50 Shades, Gorean, and other types who are either too self-absorbed to realize that there need to be safeguards, or abusers-in-training who are learning how to subvert the safeguards. If those don’t get weeded out fast, your group becomes a cesspit.
Unfortunately it is unusual to find a woman in kink subculture who has not at some point been subject to sexual acts to which she did not consent.
It’s a dirty secret of kink, because The Rules Of Consent are written in flaming letters 3 meters tall and everyone recites them by heart at the slightest suggestion that consent is a problem. Kink is supposedly the poster child for consent, the place where consent is sacred above all things. But the rules aren’t followed as rigidly as they need to be. Consent is given great lip service but not respected to the degree claimed. Women who have been raped in a kink context are very, very common.
OT, but
Trumpkin
ETA: I painted it myself.
@Gussie Jives
Intimately.
(I’m not gonna say any more, because I’ve had a really bad week and I don’t need to dig that shit up right now, but the short of it is, yeah, yeah I have. Most of the stories aren’t really appropriate for this venue anyway)
Also, what PoM said.
@Croosters
I don’t have the energy today to teach you Feminism 101. Please refer to the comments policy re: “crazy talk.” Thanks.
Cliff Pervocracy had quite a number of posts on the subject of kink and consent, as I remember.
One metaphor was the board on the stair, I believe was the name used. Basically that one stair in your house that you never have an issue with, because you know it’s like that. Once someone visits though, they trip over it and you go, oh yeah, that stair is bad.
Re trolling/messing with alt-righters and the like: I thought this video set out the issues quite nicely. It makes similar points to those raised here, regarding how you can put other people at risk. I’ve added Innuendo Studios to my list, along with hbomberguy, ShaunJen, and Contra Points 🙂
@abars01, this isn’t in response to your initial post, as that’s done & dusted – it’s just re engaging with ppl online, in general. Didn’t want to appear to be piling on 🙂
I’ve heard the term “missing stair” used.
I think everything I needed to know about Gor is summed up by the forward in one of the collected works books, where the writer refers to John Norman as an oppressed visionary who is bringing back true male power and that the Gor books just represent how society should be and blah blah blah blah blah.
The author of the forward? John Norman (and yes, he did refer to himself in the third person while writing it.)
Picked up one of the Gor books (can’t remember which one) at a charity shop a few years ago. Read about 80 pages. It has the distinction of being one of the three books I have literally thrown away. Life’s too short to bother with the tacky wish-fulfilment fantasies of pubescent boys.
(The other two books are Atlas Shrugged and Paradise Lost, for the record. 😛 )
@Mooncustafer
That’s the one.
O frabjous indictment day!
@Mooncustafer, the fact that Japanese women commonly run the finances in their marriages makes me skeptical of claims that men are better at mathematics than women.
When I saw the link for the new Return of Kings disaster I thought that perhaps someone had been reading Gor books.
Back in 2007 Dark Horse, primarily known for their comic and manga releases, announced they were going to re-release the original Gor books in omnibus form, the first release being the first 3 books. But before the year was out Dark Horse announced the release was postponed. And postponed it remained. There was a lot of backlash after the announcement, so presumably Dark Horse decided it wasn’t worth the bother. But I’ve always wondered how much if any money they lost on the attempt. I assumed at the very least they must have had a publishing contract with the their printer for the books, if not had a bunch of them printed. Unfortunately no one involved has said anything online in the 10 years since.
As for that annoying right wing media outlet I call them Bratbart.
A few years back, I was looking into kink culture, and found the rules of consent and kinda thought that meant it would be a good thing to look at. But frankly, now that I’m older and have been harassed by hundreds of men who describe themselves as part of kink, I know better. Having those rules helps the community avoid self-reflection and therefore growth, but there are still people, particularly women, being hurt by shitty men who use kink as an excuse to get their kicks abusing women.
At this point, I simply do not trust any guy who says he’s “dominant” or a “dom”.
Re: missing stairs
Brother Stair is in the news again for news that shouldn’t come as much of a surprise.
Re: BDSM
(Ramble warning)
(Also, TMI warning just in case)
I won’t claim to be an expert in bdsm, being simply a dabbler. But for me oddly the bondage is almost completely seperate from a sexual component, seeing as I’m almost 100% asexual.
Rather, for me, the act of bondage – of placing myself in my fiance’s hands and trusting him as he kinds my arms is incredibly theraputic. I have anxiety disorder and I used to have anxiety attacks on a near weekly basis. Now, bondage isn’t the only thing I’ve done to ease my anxiety, but I can confirm that it helped a lot.
In my reading of BDSM stuff, I learned of the concept called ‘subspace’, which is the trance-like state some submissives (Myself included) can enter. To the credit of the literature I read, the authors warned that this state while very freeing, can be very dangerous as the sub can be very detached from reality. In my experience it feels like how others have described a weed high.
Sorry for the ramble, but I wanted to put in my two cents.
Regarding OP – YAAY~
@Sandra That blows re: Hallowe’en plans. I hope your appointment is an amazing success to make up for it (a little). <3
@Sniper Kitty
You are not alone in finding therapeutic value in BDSM. Unfortunately, a lot if the kinds of things it’s therapeutic for are on the list of what predatory men (mostly men) look for in a victim… it’s a problem.
Regarding Roosh V’s notions about making women legal property: does he really think there are many fathers in the world who would willingly hand their daughters over to a loser like him?
@Fishy Goat
I am literally going to be on valium and painkillers all day, and expected to do nothing more than lie on a couch where my mom knows where I am and sleep and watch movies. I think tomorrow is going to be okay.
Though I’m nervous as all hell about it.
RE: Halloween, I at least got to dress in my costume and take a sailor’s dozen pictures and post em on my facebook. Which means I know how to improve my costume. I was still Heather McNamara, just in private. Which was probably good. I knew I ordered a miniskirt, but I was expecting three quarters of the way to my knees, not about halfway. If I ever want to wear it to a con, I will need either full on yellow leggings or some kind of nude leggings.
My cat, Kathryn, kinda photobombed lol. It’s fine <3
@Sniper kitty
I can see the therapeutic value. As someone who's been beaten and been assaulted (Separate situations), I can see a possible benefit to re-enacting some of those things in an environment where I truly have ultimate control. Or using something separate as a proxy for those experiences. But if it turns out I don't have control, it would traumatize me far worse. And I definitely don't want to advertise some things that would make me a more attractive target for predators.
The discussion of Roosh’s latest, uh, idea reminds me of an hilarious conversation I once had with an Afghani coworker. He was shocked to learn that women in the West had lost property rights at marriage until recently–Islam does not permit for that–and then he was delighted by the concept of a dowry being given to the groom. Where he was from, the boy’s family pays.
He explained that he had to pay some substantial sum…sixty thousand US maybe?…for his first wife. Then he hastened to assure me “It’s not that she wasn’t worth it. She is a beautiful woman. Educated. A chemical engineer. But I was a grad student, and it was a lot of money.”
No actual point to this story, except maybe to note that the guy raised in a culture where women really are considered property still had a ton more respect for women than Roosh is able to come up with.
There is a segment of the kink/bdsm community that considers informed affirmative consent the only valid form of consent,
there is another that actively oppose the former believing that there is more then one form of consent including uninformed implied consent and that there needs to be a criminal conviction before someone can be banned from events/clubs for being a predator (un)ironically they believe that speaking up abut being raped/assaulted with out a conviction should be a bannable offense.
One specific case that would make a good article would be the whole story abut “The Wolf” from fetlife,
very popular poster on the site who was a known abuser but had an army of defenders eventually he got arrested and found himself famous outside of fetlife (honestly we should be tracking some of the people there),
keep in mind there are also some really cool feminist posters there like The Ferret.
re: breitbart nicknames I like bitefart myself.
@TreePerson
Frankly, it seems to me like one group is clearly right and the other is clearly wrong. Informed affirmative consent is literally the only valid form of consent.
The other faction just reads like standard rape apologia/enabling.
@Jenora:
If that was supposed to be a link, it didn’t come out as one.
@Croosters
“Even your typical fratboy misogynist doesn’t approve thinkpieces like this. I feel there’s much more to it than just male entitlement.”
Entitlement comes in degrees, though. Whatever other issues Roosh may or may not have, entitlement really is the reason for Roosh’s misogyny.
I’m not trying to invite a debate. While I don’t think you’re trying to internet diagnose Roosh, this is a conversation that will get too close for comfort.